Erdogan has major freak-out after Germany declares massacre of Armenians "genocide"

[DetlefK]

https://www.rt.com/news/345515-turkey-erdogan-genocide-germany/

"Germany has to face responsibility for the Holocaust!"
Guess what? Germany has been doing that ever since the Holocaust.

"Germany has to face responsibility for the genocide of Namibians 1904 to 1907!"
Guess what? Germany admits that it was genocide.

----------------

In other news (couldn't find english article on that):

* Erdogan attacked the turkish-ethnic members of the german parliament, with thinly-veiled metaphors, as race-traitors. And as working for the PKK. (Never mind that the PKK's leader was originally arrested in Germany for a terror- and crime-spree and then sent to Turkey.)

* Cem Özdemir, the most prominent turkish-ethnic german parliamentarian, has received multiple death-threats from turkish extremists.

* Erdogan insinuated that Germany passed that resolution because some conspirational mastermind wanted so.

* Erdogan said, he couldn't understand how Merkel failed to bring her party to vote No on the resolution. (Maybe because it's a topic more important than politics...)

[Bad Dog]

1. We knew this was coming.

Germany did play a (minor) role in the Armenian genocide and this is as much about setting the record straight as anything else. Turkey, (not just Erdogan) has long been in denial, and is using the Syrian refugee crisis for leverage.

The truth will out.

[pampango]

3. Couldn't happen to a nicer (meaning 'worse') guy. Another RW authoritarian

who, once elected, sees himself as the savior of the nation and democracy as a cumbersome detail.

[gordianot]

4. Good for Germany a German politician specifically referenced those murders as to who remembers them.

....but that was 1930's 1940's. Much the same as a modern American politician got hesitant on the genocide call a hundred years after the fact . That Germany is calling it Genocide is an act of courage.

So a German long dead politician made a taunt 70 years ago and modern American politicians still will not respond to a matter of history as "genocide".

[Recursion]

5. Turkey needs to just deal

Their NATO membership was a ****ing gift based on geography, and they're acting like they can dictate stuff.

[DetlefK]

6. Erdogan has been trying to make Turkey a regional super-power for a while now:

- A few years ago, a turkish ship with international volunteers (IIRC) tried to deliver aid to the Gaza-strip. They entered israeli waters without permission, were boarded by israeli soldiers and started a fight with them. Palestinian implications aside, it seems in hindsight to me as if there was some powerplay between Turkey and Israel.

- ISIS-recruiters were operating on turkish soil for years. And it's pretty hard to believe that the turkish government didn't know, because these recruiters issued death-threats against students who wanted to stop them. But then again: ISIS was fighting Iran's lackey Assad. If ISIS weakens Assad, this weakens Iran, and this strengthens Turkey.

- How hard can it be to keep tank-trucks from crossing a border? Why did Turkey have such a hard time stopping ISIS from smuggling oil into Turkey???

- Turkey has delivered arms to turkmen islamist rebels in Syria fighting Assad. Two turkish journalists were just sent to jail for reporting that.

- Turkey has set up a garrison on iraqi territory with permission of the iraqi government.

- Turkey has entered the war against ISIS... by fighting the Kurds who have gained too much international support for fighting against ISIS.

[gratuitous]

7. Erdogan's reaction was nothing

At least compared to the collective national freak-out the United States would have if Germany (or any other European country) declared our atomic bombings in 1945 to be war crimes.

[edhopper]

8. why?

the firebombing of Tokyo killed more people, the bombing of Dresden had less cause.

When would Germany declare something the US did in WWII a war crime?

That's just inane.

[Bad Dog]

9. Erdogan ups the ante.

From the BBC.

Eleven German MPs of Turkish origin have been put under police protection.

They received death threats after supporting a move to describe the 1915 massacre of Armenians by Ottoman Turks as genocide.

Germany's foreign ministry has warned MPs of Turkish origin against travelling to Turkey, saying their security there could not be guaranteed.

The German parliament's move outraged the Turkish government, which does not recognise the killings as genocide.
The 11 MPs of Turkish origin who voted for the resolution have faced a backlash of negative opinion from the Turkish government and from within Germany's sizable Turkish community.

Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan castigated them, saying: "What sort of Turks are they?"

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-36509914

[Blaukraut]

14. "What sort of Turks are they?" ...They're not. They're Germans of turkish origin. n/t

[smirkymonkey]

10. Why cant they just own up to it?

I don't understand Erdogan's problem. He didn't do it.

[DetlefK]

11. Because the turkish right is extremely nationalistic.

They have a rubber-paragraph about "insulting turkdom" that can send you to jail for saying something bad about Turkey or turkish culture.

Anecdote. And I am seriously not kidding.
There once was some kind of festivity, attended by turkish politicians, where something about Turkey was celebrated. They had a cake there, covered in a red Marcipan-layer decorated to have it look like the turkish flag. The cake was shown to the journalists, photographed...
Then they wanted to cut the cake and serve it. But this would have meant cutting through the turkish flag, desecrating it.
So they carefully lifted this soft and fragile marcipan-layer from the cake, without damaging it, so they could cut the cake.

[smirkymonkey]

12. Thanks for the info. Interesting anecdote.

One thing I have noticed is that Islamic culture does not seem to be very introspective. Perhaps that is why they can never admit their part in any conflict.

[DetlefK]

13. That's too broad a brush.

There are many kinds of Islam, there are many moderate muslims, and it can be politically and culturally very complicated. For example, the middle-eastern states haven't grown organically, they were determined by colonial powers. They have a different attitude towards their countries. A weak national identity and repeated disappointments with corrupt rulers are what is people pushing towards religion to build a sense of identity and community.

Though the pendulum has swung in the other direction in recent years. The religious Shia/Sunni-conflict turned into peaceful coexistence centuries ago, but it was revived in the recent decades to give the power-play between Saudi-Arabia and Iran a religious pretext.

[smirkymonkey]

15. Yes, I suppose so. Sorry. It was just a vague observation.

Thank you for educating me on this.