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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsProbiotics Are Useless, GMOs Are Fine, and Gluten Is Necessary
A few sacred dietary cows were put on the chopping block this week.
"Over the last seven days, a roster of myth-busting nutrition studies were published showing probiotics are unnecessary, GMOs are harmless, and a gluten-free diet is a terrible idea unless you really need to be on it. Basically the only diet fad wisdom that survived this week is the idea that kale is a superfood (and, actually, it kind of is).
Its always nice to see studies that are skeptical of magic nutritionism, said Dr. Yoni Freedhoff, an Ottawa-based physician and professor who has a blog on nutrition and diet. But whether or not that actually trickles down into changing the behavior of the public remains to be seen. I think it takes an awful lot, unfortunately, to break the public opinion that there are magic foods.
The article has a link to kale being a superfood - a good read by itself.
http://motherboard.vice.com/read/probiotics-are-useless-gmos-are-fine-and-gluten-is-necessary-nutrition-science-fads-debunked
patricia92243
(12,595 posts)stomach that I have done EVER.
think
(11,641 posts)Bought a bottle of acidophilus for about 7 bucks and after 3-4 weeks I was feeling the best I felt in years.
I now take them occasionally (2-4 times a month rather than every day.) and take them regularly for about a week if symptoms come back. In the last 5 years that's only happened maybe 3 or 4 times though.
Anectodal
bhikkhu
(10,715 posts)looking at the bacterial populations in fecal matter is a good approach, but looking only for the effect of yogurt and biscuits on an otherwise healthy individual might not be the most conclusive thing.
I'd never heard of a probiotic biscuit; googling it led to this: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23364497 . Which seems to contradict the "debunking" of the OP.
awoke_in_2003
(34,582 posts)of very loose stool almost immediately after eating. Acidophilus and the occasion yogurt (when I don't feel like taking a pill) took care of that problem nicely. We seem to have two groups here (one of them responded to you)- people who believe natural remedies are true miracles, and people who believe they are true crap. Both can be quite annoying. The world is not black and white, and what works for some may not work for others.
cwydro
(51,308 posts)hlthe2b
(102,225 posts)Anyone making a decision on whether to ensure (or not) that the diet has adequate probiotic content based on this meta analysis findings alone would be foolish.
Both my dog and I will continue consuming live active culture homemade yogurt daily...
Crunchy Frog
(26,579 posts)just in time to avoid the colonoscopy. Was seriously losing weight, and dr couldn't find any reason for it. Started taking probiotics, and it ended almost instantly.
Logical
(22,457 posts)patricia92243
(12,595 posts)peacebird
(14,195 posts)leeroysphitz
(10,462 posts)dlwickham
(3,316 posts)Aerows
(39,961 posts)You will absolutely change your mind.
I come from the South, though, and we can make everything taste good. Well, with chitterlings being the exception. Somebody probably at some point made those taste good, but far and few between.
leeroysphitz
(10,462 posts)Recursion
(56,582 posts)And it's a great veg.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)after being cooked down in a good roux. I have no use for fried okra - that's just ugly on a plate.
Lars39
(26,109 posts)Over cooking it like that also dries up most of the goo.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)sautée for quite a while to get a nice reduction.
You are golden, then.
'Bout to starve here now.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)and I'm hungry just talking about it.
My grandmother used to say that it wasn't ready until the Fire Department arrived! We would open all the doors and windows and smoke the place to hell.
Lars39
(26,109 posts)because she cooked everything on high.
GulfCoast66
(11,949 posts)Roll in fine cornmeal and fry in bacon drippings till crunchy. Best thing ever.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)I'll gratefully hand over all the okra in the world to you when fried, pass me the cabbage because I know how to cook it correctly.
Juicy_Bellows
(2,427 posts)That's the way I've always done it and it is fantastic!
840high
(17,196 posts)Jim Beard
(2,535 posts)Bayard
(22,060 posts)I have some growing in my garden now. I'm a southern kid and grew up eating it in fresh black-eyed or crowder peas, with bacon and onions thrown in. Nummy. Not slimy.
GulfCoast66
(11,949 posts)Add a chopped tomato 20-30 minutes before you take them off the heat. Takes them to a new level of good.
tblue37
(65,328 posts)malaise
(268,930 posts)Mine is never slimy.
Recursion
(56,582 posts)It's my second-favorite green.
MH1
(17,600 posts)I liked it before it was cool. Or hip. Or whatever.
All I do is wash it, strip it from the stems, and steam it. Properly steamed, that is all it needs.
Of course, if all you know of kale is some of the truly crappy processed products that people are coming up with to try to make money from it, well I don't blame you.
Person 2713
(3,263 posts)smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)Vote2016
(1,198 posts)to corner the agribusiness market by monopolistic corporations:
Surveillance. Threats of violence. A one-sided legal battle. Its not the latest John Grisham novel; its what a fourth-generation farmer from Alabama says he went through at the hands of the giant agribusiness Monsanto. The farmer, Michael White, tells his story in the short documentary Seeding Fear, which was co-executive produced by singer-songwriter Neil Young (under his pseudonym "Bernard Shakey" and directed by Craig Jackson.
http://modernfarmer.com/2015/09/seeding-fear-the-story-of-a-farmer-who-took-on-monsanto/
Johnny2X2X
(19,038 posts)You're talking about the bad business practices of a corporation, not GMO technology.
Vote2016
(1,198 posts)exists to promote this immorality.
HuckleB
(35,773 posts)Get your house in order, and get back to us.
HuckleB
(35,773 posts)Also, the farmer in question broke the contract he signed, so it's really not on Monsanto. Similar contracts are used by most seed companies for all types of seeds, by the way. It's not a GMO thing at all.
Neil Young should be ashamed to have made that nonsense propaganda.
The best response I've seen to it:
"Hey Neil, I love the music. Just watched your Seeding Fear documentary and had no idea you were so cool with patent and licensing violations.
I'm currently downloading your entire catalog via bit torrent. That won't be a problem will it? I mean, licensing fees for arranging sounds that already occur naturally is pretty much the antithesis of what you stand for, right? Paying for something you made when I can get it free from someone else just makes more sense.
Anywho, just thought I'd thank you for "Down By The River." That's like my favorite song ever."
PS: Here's the actual court document.
https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/USCOURTS-alnd-5_03-cv-02804/pdf/USCOURTS-alnd-5_03-cv-02804-0.pdf
Vote2016
(1,198 posts)Last edited Sat Jun 18, 2016, 07:29 PM - Edit history (1)
astroturf can't cover up all the wrongdoing.
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)The bullshit source you are promoting doesn't even claim "tens of thousands".
Amazing how the story just keeps getting taller each time it's told. If you are a thief like Michael White, you can expect to get sued for your thievery. The hardship that resulted was of his own creation.
Vote2016
(1,198 posts)Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)WTF is even remotely similar about anything you posted?
If you're just going to post irrelevant garbage from a google search, don't bother. Random keystrokes could produce a better reply.
Vote2016
(1,198 posts)and across the GMO spectrum.
Do you think the problems faced by rice and corn farmers in the US is limited to those crops and to our nation?
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)You provided an example of a thieving farmer getting sued by a biotech company and pretending it was happening in "tens of thousands" of other cases. Nothing you can dig up with a google search is going you make that claim any less nonsense.
Get yourself online with actual farmers. You are absolutely FOS.
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)He admitted to knowingly selling Roundup Ready soybeans illegally.
Do you really think an obviously biased source is going to tell you the whole story?
hlthe2b
(102,225 posts)Not only are the methods all over the spectrum, but the endpoint--survival/enrichment of FECAL biota questionable, given there is considerable reason to believe the "site of action may be proximal to the colon" as the study's own authors even acknowledge. Further, again from this study's own authors: "It is concluded that there is little, if any, evidence of an effect of probiotic treatment in circumstances where the microbiota is unperturbed by pathophysiological processes or pharmaceutical treatment (antibiotics or chemotherapy), either concurrent with or prior to intervention. " That, is equivalent to essentially saying probiotic supplementation did not make already HEALTHY people any HEALTHIER and is ridiculous on its face.
This one needs to be discounted... I haven't looked at the others.
mainer
(12,022 posts)How do you make a healthy, asymptomatic person MORE asymptomatic?
Also, what is the source of the probiotic, is it in tablet form? Those are poorly regulated. It's been my experience that the most effective probiotics come in the form of fermented foods (specifically sauerkraut).
hlthe2b
(102,225 posts)but none included -fermented whole foods-- which, while it makes it easier to validate the "starting" dose, is very likely to emerge (as have studies on pill-form antioxidants) to be yet another apples v oranges comparison.
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)If there's nothing wrong with your gut flora, then probiotics may not do anything for you. For many people this isn't the case for a variety of reasons both temporary and permanent which the meta analysis didn't address.
I use probiotics to culture milk and cream into yogurt, buttermilk, and sour cream. So for me they are very useful.
hlthe2b
(102,225 posts)and which the author also acknowledges, your point is likewise meaningless, But I do credit you with not taking everything at face value, since you do seem to recognize the valuee of probiotics in producing food products.
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)My point was the study didn't address that situation in which I suspect probiotics do have a substantial benefit.
MH1
(17,600 posts)I won't even go into all the reasons I know that. (TMI).
The one caveat is that nutritional supplements are unregulated so sure, you could buy a product that claims to contain some phenomenal amount of probiotics, and it might be totally ineffective. (But the brand probably wouldn't last long.)
The best bet is to consume kefir or yogurt in perfectly reasonable dietary amounts (like a couple times a week if not having issues or taking antibiotics; in that case a serving daily will usually suffice, at most two servings).
NobodyHere
(2,810 posts)smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)Gluten free ebola.
hunter
(38,310 posts)GMO's are not one thing. Some of them are going to have more positives than negatives, some are going to have more negatives than positives.
Blindly defending corporate science and economics is another form of magical thinking.
Big agricultural corporations and big pharmaceutical corporations market lies, they fund "science" that isn't science, and they attack legitimate scientists whenever it's profitable.
Bad Thoughts
(2,522 posts)Perhaps the issue is being bracketed.
apnu
(8,755 posts)How come we reaely look at the drowning of crops in Roundup and the inevitable runoff?
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)They must go through a lengthy certification process and those who apply them commercially must be trained and licensed. There's also been hundreds of studies on Roundup alone.
mainer
(12,022 posts)we are a medical family -- two MDs, and a lot of skepticism. Our son traveled in Asia and came down with intestinal symptoms for which he was treated with antibiotics. What followed was three years of misery, GI distress, multiple visits to gastroenterologists, repeated stool cultures, and no relief. In desperation, the poor kid cut out gluten, dairy products, veggies -- just about everything he used to love eating. He continued suffering.
About three weeks before he was scheduled for a colonoscopy, I read a NYT magazine article by Michael Pollan regarding the human microbiome and how fermented foods could repopulate the human gut with "good" bacteria. What did my son have to lose? He began eating home-made sauerkraut several times a day.
The day before his colonoscopy, he cancelled the appointment. After three long years, he'd been cured -- by nothing more than a big pot of sliced, fermented cabbage.
His gastroenterologist was amazed. And is now a believer.
Bonx
(2,053 posts)Good stuff. It's my go-to side dish with my lunch sandwich.
Person 2713
(3,263 posts)it must of really wiped out his entire gut! Good and bad that can happen
mainer
(12,022 posts)If you're otherwise healthy, with a normal immune system, it's better to suffer through the temporary agony of gastroenteritis than to take drugs that will wipe out your gut flora and leave you with longterm problems.
Kimchi tastes good, too!
Igel
(35,300 posts)And it's easy to make.
(Have some in the fridge, next to the homemade chilli pickle. Fermented cabbage and radish next to the lightly fermented chili peppers with spices.)
JCMach1
(27,556 posts)and kind of tasty... full of probiotics...
I do it for gout though, not digestion.
Yo_Mama
(8,303 posts)ffr
(22,669 posts)It's what's on the menu 2 - NITE!!!!
Nothing wrong with GMOs other than their chemistry, right Dr. Yoni Freedhoff, Ottawa-based physician and professor.
Sorry Ms. Bee for the pesticides that cause you to lose direction and buzz around endlessly, lost until you die, because GMO pesticide resistant crops offer higher yields to feed the ever expanding 228,000 new humans added to this planet per day, while CCD is, well, collapsing your & other pollinator populations.
Sorry Ms. Monarch for herbicides killing off your babies milkweed plants, which Round Up Ready crops are extremely proficient at, reducing your population to 10 - 15% of what it was only a few decades ago. We think you're pretty, but we don't need you. We need higher yielding more profitable GMO crops!
Sorry Ms. Jane Doe for not informing you that it's the chemical makeup of GMOs that you may not be aware of and that studies like this gloss over. But what's a little pesticide and herbicide residue in your "fine" GMO food, right? It's just a little bit. Don't worry about it, you're a big human being, not a small insect or flimsy plant. Physicians like Dr. Yoni Freedhoff can see above all that. In fact, you're fine to eat GMOs in mass quantities, that's how "fine" they are for you and your toddlers.
Bonx
(2,053 posts)Google!
Geegle !
Do you have anything to substantiate or dispute what I said or are you on here just to distract and annoy people.
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)I'm beginning to think you don't either.
Then you're in the minority and I feel sorry for you.
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)You'd do better copying and pasting your well debunked talking points from your sources, because when you try to author them yourself, they come out as word salad. Not to mention you could have saved yourself a lot of time and trouble spending lots of time producing something that was simply written off as gibberish by everyone who even bothered to try and make heads or tails of it.
pinboy3niner
(53,339 posts)Wounded Bear
(58,647 posts)pinboy3niner
(53,339 posts)Hanging my head in shame...
Wounded Bear
(58,647 posts)You are the master punster around here.
whistler162
(11,155 posts)I will give you this bag of beans.
djean111
(14,255 posts)what people eat as substitutes.
Not even the "micro-nutrients" are necessary. Those are token micro-nutrients added in because they are stripped out during processing. No one gets their nutrition from gluten. Unless they are living on just bread. And the nutrients that are added to foods with gluten are readily available in other foods.
villager
(26,001 posts)...i.e., never be skeptical of corporate made/grown food.
Always be "skeptical" of alternatives.
When the reality is to have a balanced approach, know what your alternatives are to Big Food and Big Pharma when you need them, take certain things with grains of salt, find what works best for you, etc...
tex-wyo-dem
(3,190 posts)Isn't so much if they are healthier to eat, but their affect on the environment.
HuckleB
(35,773 posts)tex-wyo-dem
(3,190 posts)Pesticides and overuse of nitrite based fertilizers have caused havoc to the environment.
GMOs are less obvious....I worry about the effects of cross-pollonization and the entire food web.
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)The organic certification process contains no guarantees against anything you mentioned. It's nothing more than a marketing effort.
Cross-pollination happens no matter what seed development technology is used and has been for thousands of years.
Person 2713
(3,263 posts)Nevernose
(13,081 posts)You want me to find fifty studies finding that salt is the devil? Can do. Want fifty more showing that salt is harmless? No problem.
In my limited time on this planet, I've learned one key fact: it's all bullshit (I learned this from George Carlin).
It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out what's healthy and what's not, and even with the best possible nutrition, you're still going to die. We are all going to die. We are all going to die no matter how much kale we stir fry in avocado oil and no matter how many vitamins and supplements we take. We're probably going to be scared shitless in the moments immediately leading up to our demise -- with the occasional precognitive fear for decades before our death -- and the best we can reasonably hope for is to make it to the middle of our seventh decade and still be moderately mobile.
"Nutrition," for most of us in the well-nourished Western world, is just 21st century folk magic.
(And in the spirit of honesty, I should mention that I take vitamins and supplements daily, some of which because I'm supposed to and others of which because I'm a paranoid loon, and I also exercise at least an hour a day, six days a week).
DBoon
(22,356 posts)Yes, Tito's Vodka is labeled "gluten free".
marybourg
(12,620 posts)who MUST eat and drink gluten free. Vodka is often made with rye (one of the 3 prohibited grains along with wheat and barley). Sometimes it's even made with wheat.
People (including those who MUST eat gluten free) are often stunned by the wide variety of foods that can contain ( or be contaminated during commercial production with ) gluten. Licorice, mushrooms, cornstarch, scotch whiskey, potato chips, soy sauce and -- vodka. And many, many others.
Conclusion -- it's extremely difficult to eat gluten free. I can't imagine why anyone would do it unless they have celiac disease, as I do, or have found by experience that a long-term undiagnosed condition is greatly improved by eating gluten free, as several people I know have. Please be tolerant.
Marrah_G
(28,581 posts)marybourg
(12,620 posts)djean111
(14,255 posts)unfortunate name ). Freebase was folded into wikidata. Interesting stuff to do. I worked on NCAA tournaments, movies, books, foods, restaurants, the Toronto bus system, golf courses, corporations, museum exhibitions, film festivals, mapping shopping in neighborhoods, celebrities, and other stuff. For an ADHD person, it is a great job. I did learn to never go to a Russian web site - found an obscure horror movie poster, and got a virus.
One of my projects was to identify if foods in the database were gluten-free. I was really surprised how many foods had gluten in them. It is assumed that vodka made from wheat has distilled the gluten out, but I can't remember what the consensus was on that.
Personally, I am a low carber, and really only care about net carbs. I do know that gluten itself is totally unnecessary as food.
Marrah_G
(28,581 posts)Attorney in Texas
(3,373 posts)What a bunch of propaganda!
It is a Monsanto propaganda framing tool to cast the GMO debate in terms of "is it poison for you to eat or isn't it poison to eat GMOs?"
Framing the debate this way sidesteps the key question whether it is an ethical or monopolistic business model. GMOs are a corporate strategy to monopolize agribusiness and to crush independent farming at the expense of biodiversity. GMOs suck and Monsanto and its cohorts have fooled you into thinking the issues is whether or not GMOs are poison or not.
scarletwoman
(31,893 posts)Mendocino
(7,486 posts)GMOs have inhibited the digestibility and nutrition of food in order to maximize production levels. Crops that grow faster, ship and store better or more cheaply raised may be pushed by big farm to the detriment of more palatable and healthy but slightly less "marketable" crops. Maybe less digestible wheat or other grains causes the gluten problem.
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)Attorney in Texas
(3,373 posts)Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)Not to mention regurgitating other nonsense from other conspiracy theory nutbags like Mercola, Mike Adams, and Alex Fucking Jones.
So yeah, great source you got there.
Meanwhile I'll just note you didn't answer the question and assume you aren't going to even attempt to support your ridiculous conspiracy theory assertions.
ffr
(22,669 posts)Three strikes and you're out!
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)Or is it always like this with you?
pnwmom
(108,976 posts)because labeling is still so poor.
Promoting stories like this give restaurants and food producers an excuse for not keeping gluten out of the food of people who have serious reasons to avoid it.
Thanks a lot.
bunnies
(15,859 posts)Anyone who argues against food ( aka nutrition ) as medicine is an idiot.
Warpy
(111,245 posts)because they can replenish some of the good bacteria the antibiotics are killing off. I can't imagine taking any pricey health food store pills, yogurt and sauerkraut do a great job. I guess those pills are for hypochondriacs and people who never learned to love fermented foods.
They don't do a damned thing for healthy people except clean out their wallets unless those healthy people enjoy the foods they produce.
Gluten free foods are great for people with celiac disease and damned nice for the 0.2% of people with allergy.
GMO foods are safe and if someday they find one with unintended consequences, they can be wiped out in two years. The seeds are sterile.
MFM008
(19,805 posts)DO work...for me anyway.
HockeyMom
(14,337 posts)Surprised me when I looked up the list. This is coming from my own ethnic background (Italian) and my husband's of 41 years German/Lithuanian. Sauerkraut and pickles? lol Others came about strictly from living in NYC and acquiring a taste early on for Asian cuisine, which I can now find the ingredients for in a supermarket and cook myself simply because I like the taste of it.
The Dark Chocolate really surprised me. That was the only chocolate I would ever eat as a child, and even today. I can remember my Mom having to specially order a Dark Chocolate Easter Bunny for me back in the 50's. We had a relative who was from Geneva, and he would always bring me back dark chocolate when he went back home.
Also, my Mom would take me to the Italian markets. We would buy chuck Gorgonzola, loaf of Italian bread, and we would break off pieces of both and eat it on our way home. My childhood snack. lol
Who knew? Sounds like the ethnic diets are far better than the American ones of today.
Motown_Johnny
(22,308 posts)Probiotics can be useful for some people. The same way a gluten free diet is necessary for some people.
Most people don't need probiotics and most people don't need a gluten free diet.
As for GMOs.. I agree. The mindless fear of them is completely irrational.