So, are we done with heterosexism yet?

[Prism]

I took the week off from the board. Orlando was too close to home. The dead were too close. I had friends and family to attend to.

Sneaking back in, I couldn't read much. I couldn't read anything. I glanced at the larger threads.

Threads full of straight people saying why Islam isn't the problem, and that it's not really homophobia per se.

So, is that all out of everyone's system now, or do y'all need another week of that shit?

[FLPanhandle]

1. People don't like to face truths that don't fit their world view.

Of course Islam and homophobia are a problem. It's just so many here don't want to face that and will twist their minds to explain it away.

Hope you feel better. It's been tough for my gay and lesbian friends here in Florida without having to hear from the apologists.

[moriah]

3. Islam isn't any more of a problem, itself, than the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

It's people who use ANY religion as an excuse to force it on others, or kill them for it, that's the real issue.

I'm Pagan and we have the "harm none" ideal, and I feel that the various people who still revere the Old Testament are misguided to still be so bigoted. But it's violence that is the problem, and the religious leaders that teach such violence. Not the religions themselves, or we'd have a lot more violence.

[Bluenorthwest]

4. There are hundreds and hundreds of anti-gay attacks in the US each year. Half the States allow

discrimination against us in housing and in employment. At least 7 countries actively execute LGBT and credit their religion for that. Many others subject LGBT to the lash, on an official and legal basis. Hundreds of LGBT people are murdered around the world each and every year.
And yet that's not enough violence to bother you? You can't manage to admit to the common element motivating those acts of violence, many of them committed by States and Cities?

How much violence would it take to get your attention?

[moriah]

12. I never said that.any level of violence was acceptable.

What I said was that Islam is not the only religion that still preaches and condones violence and bigotry, and I refuse to engage in intellectual dishonesty there, or condemn an entire religion when there are others who are just as guilty.

And I was also referring to American Muslims. I have a feeling most of the violence against those who admirably refuse to bow to societal pressure and deny who they are, who die here, without their names ever getting mentioned (or even known in the case of Julie Doe,) were committed by people who are probably about as pale as I am, and raised Christian.

[King_David]

13. An American Muslim extremist just slaughtered 49 people

Because he thought they were Gay.

[moriah]

14. And how many were beaten or murdered the other 364 days for the same reason?

I will never forget the tragedy at Pulse, but this is not simply a problem with any one specific religion.

[King_David]

15. I hope you not talking about the massacre in Orlando. nt

[moriah]

16. I am speaking of the 23 people murdered in 2015 alone for being transgender.

http://www.advocate.com/transgender/2015/11/20/transgender-day-remembrance-2015-those-weve-lost

Then the others who have been beaten, killed, or otherwise terrorized, every day, that we cannot forget, but we do.

There is no excuse or justification for what happened in Orlando a week ago, but at least they will be remembered. As they should be. But it shouldn't take all the deaths happening on the same day to make us care.

[King_David]

17. In this thread we are talking about the vermin scum responsible for the massacre in Orlando..

Who claimed allegiance to ISIS.

This is what ISIS usually does to Gays:


Small kids made to look on as ISIS throws ‘gay’ man off building and stone him to death

http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2016/05/08/small-kids-made-to-look-on-as-isis-throws-gay-man-off-building-and-stone-him-to-death/

[moriah]

19. The OP discussed heterosexism, which is certainly not limited to Islam.

In fact, even Judy Harrow of my own signature line recognizes the heterosexism inherent in Gardenerian Wicca, though she like many are fighting against it and trying to do better.

As are the vast majority of American Muslims. We must fight extremism in whatever religion it manifests.

[FLPanhandle]

5. I've read some ridiculous religion apologist stuff here, but wow...the stupidity here.

Islam isn't any more of a problem, itself, than the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster

[ileus]

7. One skinned, burned, bombed, raped and killed hundreds of people last week, the other didn't...

As long as we see Islam as the enemy of red state Christians we have to carry water for them.

[moriah]

10. I refuse to single out Islam as the only religion that preaches bigotry and violence.

That doesn't mean I or anyone else must "carry water" for any religion that cannot accept the compromise and religious freedom our country was founded upon. Whether Pagan, Quaker, Christian, or Muslim, if you are willing to live peacefully with those you condemn to hell, that's fine. That's why we have freedom of religion.

What's not fine is deciding to use any religion to justify bigotry and murder.

[moriah]

9. If the Church of the FSM starts fighting over whether metal vs plastic colanders.are correct and...

... start killing each other over it, there's no difference, really.

It's the fact that the people who follow the religions can't accept that not following their "one true way" isn't reason for bigotry and killing that causes the problems.

[moriah]

2. I always liked using "heterosexist" rather than "homophobic"....

... first, the latter implies that fear is the issue rather than intolerance of differences.

Heterosexist shows that the problem is our societal "norms", rather than also potentially encouraging actual fear among the ignorant. (plus, they get all defensive and I don't like dealing with that tired argument.)

To edit for clarification: their fear is of losing their privileges. But they won't acknowledge it, so I just don't bother anymore.)

[King_David]

6. These threads have been unbelievable nt

[cali]

8. alas, probably not. All I can offer you is

this and a promise to listen carefully.

[ryan_cats]

11. Yours will not

Yours will not be a popular post although I agree with it.

[Behind the Aegis]

18. Doubtful.

C'mon Prism, we both know there are many who will turn cartwheels to discuss various "privileges" and types of "'splainin'" but one of those is not "heterosexual privilege" aka heterosexism. I am sure the tide will recede as this fades from their memories, but it is always there, just under the surface. It will no longer be as prevalent as all things will turn from our community and do like the pattern has already shown, talk about everything but the LGBT community.

We got the right to marry, shouldn't that be enough?! Why are we never happy? After all they just knew, when they first heard, it had to be a self-loathing gay man (duck-lip selfies, dudes and a woman beater!)! Because as we all know, there is no such thing as a hate-filled, homophobic heterosexual man in existence, like a unicorn; no, all male homophobes secretly love the cock! We should be grateful we have so many learned heterosexuals will to 'splain' to us GLBT people what is and isn't homophobia, when we should and shouldn't be concerned about our civil rights, and how we should process our anger.

Of course the above is sarcasm (that's for the jury not you), but isn't it also interesting this tool place during Pride Month and it hasn't even been a year, almost, but not yet, since we were granted marriage equality.

[Rex]

20. You take the good, you take the bad

that is the facts of DU. Fundamentalism has ALWAYS been the problem. Doesn't matter what their holy symbol be, those that are fanatics will find a way to hurt innocent people. History always repeats itself. We never learn.

[Dalziel3979]

21. No because making sure not to offend, question or criticize theocratic ideologies

is more important than acknowledging the reality of certain demographic groups of people that are marginalised, abused, imprisoned or killed internationally everyday directly because of the most fundamental followers of them or from social / cultural attitudes and laws historically influenced or imposed by them.