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kpete

(71,986 posts)
Sun Jun 19, 2016, 04:28 PM Jun 2016

NRA says The Donald Went Too Far

Chris Cox, the executive director of the NRA’s Institute for Legislative Action, also said on ABC’s “This Week” that he didn’t want people at a nightclub shooting guns while drinking:

COX: Of course not. Of course not. And you can’t be in a nightclub drinking anywhere in this country. What Donald Trump has said is what the American people know is commonsense, that if somebody had been there to — to stop this faster, fewer people would have died. That’s not — that’s not controversial, that’s commonsense.

KARL: But you don’t like the idea of people going into nightclub armed to the teeth?

COX: Of course.

KARL: OK.

COX: No one thinks that people should go into a nightclub drinking and carrying firearms. That defies common sense. It also defies the law. It’s not what we’re talking about here.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/donald-trump-nra-orlando_us_5766d145e4b015db1bc9ae30?section=
17 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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NRA says The Donald Went Too Far (Original Post) kpete Jun 2016 OP
"designated carriers". nt jmg257 Jun 2016 #1
Bullshit Bluzmann57 Jun 2016 #2
In some states Aerows Jun 2016 #5
And how the hell would such a limitation... 3catwoman3 Jun 2016 #12
You've got me. Aerows Jun 2016 #14
Of course he isl ailsagirl Jun 2016 #3
I this the same NRA that supports guns in churches and cinemas?? malaise Jun 2016 #4
And, of course, this: yallerdawg Jun 2016 #6
Millions of CCWs out there safeinOhio Jun 2016 #7
I forgot that it happens all the time safeinOhio Jun 2016 #8
You don't often hear about such incidents but while rare they do happen. ... spin Jun 2016 #11
As I said, none of these cases safeinOhio Jun 2016 #15
Depends on your definition. ... spin Jun 2016 #16
"It also defies the law." More NRA bullshit. LastLiberal in PalmSprings Jun 2016 #9
the nra defies common sense. spanone Jun 2016 #10
The nra is an affront to human decency ailsagirl Jun 2016 #13
Time to highly restrict semi-automatics. roamer65 Jun 2016 #17

Bluzmann57

(12,336 posts)
2. Bullshit
Sun Jun 19, 2016, 04:34 PM
Jun 2016

Here in Iowa, it is legal to walk into a bar with a concealed weapon. The NRA fully backed this when it was being debated. So Cox is full of shit.

 

Aerows

(39,961 posts)
5. In some states
Sun Jun 19, 2016, 04:47 PM
Jun 2016

they get away with this absolute defiance of all that is common sense by saying you can go into a bar with a gun, but you can't consume alcohol while carrying.

Let's be real here. How many people go into bars, to not drink while carrying a gun?

Yes, many people go into bars and don't drink. I just don't think there is a reasonable expectation that the same kind of people that take guns with them everywhere they go are going to overwhelmingly be in bars and not drinking.

yallerdawg

(16,104 posts)
6. And, of course, this:
Sun Jun 19, 2016, 04:53 PM
Jun 2016
Trump was pushing the “good guy with a gun” theory, a favorite of groups like the NRA that want to stop any gun control measures. The argument is that mass shootings can be stopped more quickly if other people have guns and are able to fire back at the shooter. But there was actually a good guy with a gun — a security officer — at the Orlando nightclub. That fact did not stop the shooter, as the Los Angeles Times reported:

Orlando Police Chief John Mina said an off-duty police officer working security at the club in uniform traded gunfire with the attacker.

Officials said that after police responded to reports of the violence, the attacker retreated to a bathroom with hostages. Police held back because the attacker made statements about having explosives, they said.

safeinOhio

(32,674 posts)
7. Millions of CCWs out there
Sun Jun 19, 2016, 04:58 PM
Jun 2016

And not once has one stopped a shooter with a asult type weapon in a mass shooting.

spin

(17,493 posts)
11. You don't often hear about such incidents but while rare they do happen. ...
Sun Jun 19, 2016, 07:17 PM
Jun 2016

In this article there is a short list of such incidents. As I said they are rare.

Do citizens (not police officers) with guns ever stop mass shootings?
By Eugene Volokh October 3, 2015

Backers of laws that let pretty much all law-abiding people carry concealed guns in public places often argue that these laws will sometimes enable people to stop mass shootings. Opponents occasionally ask: If that’s so, what examples can one give of civilians armed with guns stopping such shootings? Sometimes, I hear people asking if even one such example can be found, or saying that they haven’t heard of even one such example.

A while back I posted about a few examples, but since then there have been some more, so I thought I’d note them. Naturally, such examples will be rare. Even in states which allow concealed carry, there often aren’t people near a shooting who have a gun on them at the time. Many mass shootings happen in supposedly “gun-free” zones (such as schools, universities, bars, or private property posted with a no-guns sign), in which gun carrying isn’t allowed in many states. And there is no central database of such examples, many of which don’t hit the national media, especially if a gunman is stopped before he shoots many victims. Moreover, at least some examples are ambiguous, because it might be unclear — as you’ll see below — whether the shooter had been planning to kill more people when he was stopped.

Still, for whatever they are worth, here is a list of some such incidents (which deliberately excludes killings stopped by people who were off-duty police officers, or police officers from other jurisdictions, at the time of a shooting, as well as some other cases which struck me as borderline):
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2015/10/03/do-civilians-with-guns-ever-stop-mass-shootings/


Another factor is that mass murders usually pick soft targets which such as gun free zones to carry out their attack.

There are over 1,000,000 residents of Florida who currently have a valid concealed weapons permit but Florida law says you can't legally carry a concealed firearm even with a carry permit into an establishment such as the Orlando nightclub that was just attacked.

However the idea that if only more people start legally carrying concealed handguns everywhere mass murders will end is foolish. Usually the shooter has a far superior weapon and any responsible person would have to be close to the shooter to place an accurate shot that would stop him. The good guy would also have to consider that he might easily injure an innocent person if he missed. Handguns especially the ones usually carried concealed are far more difficult to shoot than what you may believe if you watch movies or TV. Also an individual may be a great shooter on the range but stress and adrenaline cause a his/her skills to diminish considerably.

Legally concealed handguns are most useful as self defense weapons in situations where there are one or two attackers and once the attackers realize their victim is armed they run.

For example my mother back in the 1920's time frame was walking home from work in a rural area after she got off a bus. A man who had been hiding behind some bushes rushed her. She had a small S&W .22 caliber LadySmith revolver in her purse which she drew. She fired two shots over the man's head and he ran.

As a side note she kept that revolver as a souvenir and hid it in a box in a drawer in her bedroom. Of course I found it. I loaded it with the bullets that were in the box. I don't remember ever pulling the trigger but if I had it wouldn't have made a loud noise. My father had wisely removed the firing pin.

spin

(17,493 posts)
16. Depends on your definition. ...
Sun Jun 19, 2016, 08:49 PM
Jun 2016

If you are talking about attacks using a semi-automatic rifle with a detachable magazine that can hold more than ten rounds, you are right.

However the definition I was using is broader. A pistol such as a Glock could fall within the definition of an assault weapon.


Drawing from federal and state law definitions, the term assault weapon refers primarily to semi-automatic rifles, pistols, and shotguns that are able to accept detachable magazines and possess one or more other features.[2][9][10][11] Some jurisdictions define revolving cylinder shotguns as assault weapons.[12][13] Legislative definitions do not include fully automatic weapons, which are regulated separately as Title II weapons under federal law.[14][9][n 1] A key defining law was the now-defunct Federal Assault Weapons Ban of 1994.[14] At that time, the United States Department of Justice said, "In general, assault weapons are semiautomatic firearms with a large magazine of ammunition that were designed and configured for rapid fire and combat use."[3]
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assault_weapon



9. "It also defies the law." More NRA bullshit.
Sun Jun 19, 2016, 05:30 PM
Jun 2016
More States Allowing Guns in Bars

NASHVILLE — Happy-hour beers were going for $5 at Past Perfect, a cavernous bar just off this city’s strip of honky-tonks and tourist shops when Adam Ringenberg walked in with a loaded 9-millimeter pistol in the front pocket of his gray slacks.

Mr. Ringenberg, a technology consultant, is one of the state’s nearly 300,000 handgun permit holders who have recently seen their rights greatly expanded by a new law — one of the nation’s first — that allows them to carry loaded firearms into bars and restaurants that serve alcohol.

“If someone’s sticking a gun in my face, I’m not relying on their charity to keep me alive,” said Mr. Ringenberg, 30, who said he carries the gun for personal protection when he is not at work.

Gun rights advocates like Mr. Ringenberg may applaud the new law, but many customers, waiters and restaurateurs here are dismayed by the decision.


NYT

He carries the gun in his pants? Can anybody else see where this is going to lead?

roamer65

(36,745 posts)
17. Time to highly restrict semi-automatics.
Sun Jun 19, 2016, 09:41 PM
Jun 2016

Any type of semi-automatic should be a restricted class weapon, requiring gun safety education and a lengthy background check, along with a psychiatric evaluation.

We have to break the weapons up into classes and apply differing processes to obtain each.

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