We can't have healthcare for all yet we'll give $40 billion to Israel

[Rosa Luxemburg]

Don't get me wrong I like the Israeli people but it has a rotten government. Here's the US government intending to give it $40 billion. We seem to be giving money away at the tax payers' expense.

PS I had posted this in the wrong forum

[Rosa Luxemburg]

5. Many of us though

Many of us would like 'regime change' in Israel. Bibi needs to go. I would personally like to see a different government. Perhaps we can see a breakdown for what the taxpayers' money is being used for.

[63splitwindow]

32. Bibi dissed the President of the United States so...

he can go get fucked along with the wingnut asshats in the USA who incessantly complain about President Obama's alleged abandonment of support for Israel.

[swhisper1]

7. we are funding slow terrorism

[Journeyman]

2. Then the Israelis, who've saved $40 billion on defense, are able to afford universal health care...

for all their citizens.

Quite the scam.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

10. so Israelis can have universal healthcare and we can't?

do they get free higher education?

[Journeyman]

22. As I say, quite the scam . . .

And what do we get in return? Joseph Heller pegged it well. But you'll need to look up that comment yourself. I'm certain there are those who would take offense.

[safeinOhio]

34. Pays for most

Abortions too.

[Journeyman]

57. In answer to your question, Rosa -- they almost get free higher education . . .

From Wikipedia (emphasis added):

After secondary education, students are generally conscripted into the Israel Defense Forces (IDF), but may request a postponement of the conscription date to study at a pre-service Mechina, or in a college or university. Those who study in a university at this stage generally do so under a program called atuda, where the tuition for their bachelor's degree is paid for by the army. They are however obliged to sign a contract with the army extending their service by 2–3 years.

Universities generally require a certain amount of bagrut matriculation units (as well as a certain grade average) and a good grade in the Psychometric Entrance Test, which is similar in many respects to the American SAT. All of Israel's nine public universities, and some of its colleges, are subsidized by the state, and students pay only a small part of the actual cost of tuition.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_in_Israel

Again, quite the scam. They've a population maybe 20% the size of California and we provide them military aid greater than 15% of their GDP. They then use this money to offset their expenses for universal health care and heavily subsidized higher education (among other perks). There's more involved, of course, but there it is . . .

[Bohunk68]

58. I recall when Nixon initialed an agreement that basically

said that the US would make up the shortfall in their Defense budget. Shortly after, it came out that the building of the illegal settlements was transferred to the Defense budget. Ergo, the US taxpayer has footed the bill for the illegal settlements, since that is what created the shortfall. Been going on for decades.

[msongs]

3. we cant have healthcare for all which bernie wants because he gives billions to the MIC. lots of

can't haves because of establishment politicians and their votes

[Cassiopeia]

67. Wait, you're trying to blame Bernie?

Seriously?

[Raastan]

4. We have been giving money to both Israel and Egypt

Since the Camp David Accords in the Carter years. It helps keep the peace... FYI...

[Rosa Luxemburg]

8. does it?

we will have to experiment and see what happens if they get less.

[Raastan]

11. Really?

Can't you guess what would happen if they fight again? Nukes are involved, now... I am not saying we don't need universal health care, just that there is an uneasy peace in the region, and we have made commitments...

[Rosa Luxemburg]

12. it's ridiculous

We shouldn't be held to ransom.

[PaulaFarrell]

53. Are you saying Israel would launch a first-strike nuclear attack?

They are the only ones with nukes in the area.

[Raastan]

85. I certainly hope not

However, using the past as precedent, they will defend themselves if attacked. They have an excellent military; but if necessary, they could use nuclear weapons.

[SomethingFishy]

13. Keeps the peace?

Are you serious? Did you not see what Gaza looked like two years ago?



That hardly looks like "peace" to me.

[Raastan]

15. Peace between Israel and Egypt and other Arab nations

Camp David Accords.

Not between Israel and Palestine...

[Plucketeer]

42. Part of this "gift"

likely pays your salary to sway opinion here, no?

[Raastan]

86. ??? What the H@$l are you talking about???

[Scootaloo]

51. Yes, but this is an additional gift beyond the agreed annual amount in the Camp David Accords

And it has very little to do with peace, and more to do with under-the-table giveaways to US arms manufacturers.

[House of Roberts]

6. We're not actually giving them $40 billion in cash.

We're paying US companies to build that much in military hardware for the DoD to give to Israel. I've never been able to find out if this comes out of the Pentagon's budget or the State Department's.

This 'agreement' that expires in 2018 requires us to give Egypt the same amount of aid as Israel. I wonder if this new agreement has to include Egypt, and do we have to give them as much as Israel again?

[Rosa Luxemburg]

9. $100 billion for the two?

what about Saudi or do they pay us?

[House of Roberts]

16. The Saudis pay cash for their hardware.

Not $100 billion, unless Egypt is included in the agreement, and then it's still only $80 billion, spread over ten years.

Personally, I think both Israel and Egypt can afford to buy their own hardware, but then, they wouldn't always buy it from us.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

21. They want $50 billion now

that's a LOT of money!

[House of Roberts]

23. Personally, I wouldn't give it to them,

unless there was a lot I was getting under the table in return.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

26. What are we getting in return?

[House of Roberts]

29. Above the table,

the Saudis are helping wage the battle against ISIS in several countries, of course.

Under the table? That's above my pay grade.

[AntiBank]

69. helping wage the battle against??? Saudis, Qatar, Bahrain, etc

fund ISIS, al Qaeda, and most other global Sunni jihadists (especially Saladist aka Wahabbic) to the tune of BILLIONS of USD per annum.

The despotic Gulf States are foundationally responsible for rise of these nouveau terrorist groups, along with the US/UK/NATO empiric war machine who have went in and brought the Arc of Crisis (as first envisioned by Bernard Lewis and Zbigniew Brzezinski in the 1970's) to life via its repeated incursions, invasions, and murderous sanctions/'humanitarian' interventions.

[bhikkhu]

18. Its in the State Department budget

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23364497

and nowhere to be found in the DOD budget http://comptroller.defense.gov/Portals/45/Documents/defbudget/fy2016/FY2016_Budget_Request_Overview_Book.pdf

I've always looked at the FMF spending as a big US jobs program, as the money goes straight from the government coffers to US manufacturers, and then the products get shipped overseas. I can't say I'm fond of the program; while boosting stimulating the economy here, we puts guns in a lot of hands overseas.

[House of Roberts]

19. I have worked on F-16 boarding ladders,

and the route sheet said FOB Israel right on it. It was a sub contract for Lockheed, IIRC, but it sure did help me keep a job at the time. I am working for the same company again, but we're doing space stuff for Boeing now, and I like that just fine. It's all big parts, and I spend a lot more time just monitoring the machine while it cuts.

[Recursion]

46. It varies but generally it's a line item in Commerce, oddly enough

As you point out, "foreign aid" is generally domestic spending by another name, and it tends to wind up in Commerce's budget, technically.

[Bohunk68]

59. We will not know how much because of the Black Budget of the DOD. nt

[House of Roberts]

60. Nah.

Too many politicians have to prove their AIPAC bonafides. It has to be out there where it's easily counted.

[Bohunk68]

61. Evidently you are not aware of what the Black Budget is,

which of course is why they call it the Black Budget. The numbers are unknown to the bulk of the Congress. Those that do know are sworn to secrecy. Do a google on the black budget. Get updated.

[House of Roberts]

81. I'm not saying a black budget doesn't exist,

it's just they want credit for as much as possible.

[Ford_Prefect]

14. It makes you wonder if we stopped "giving" money for arms to them, along with others in the

region, if the wars would have to stop or slow down due to cash flow considerations. Suppose we stopped selling them all the tools and spent the money on our infrastructure, education and health care.

It would certainly put a hole in the money laundering done by the MIC = Citizen Taxes to Congress, to state department, to arms deals in the MIC, to congressional campaigns for those who sit on the committees and approve the military foreign aid and the subsequent deals for Israel or Egypt or whoever to buy new expensive weapons and systems, with corporate profits carefully herded offshore to avoid taxes on them.

We don't need more new weapons in the region, and in Israel particularly because as soon as they have the new ones they sell the old ones downstream to keep all the African and Asian players in the game, just like their neighbors do.

[Alex4Martinez]

17. And, today in America, a DU member has to buy her students all of their schools supplies.

And posts a gofundme request for help.

This will not get better until we elect leaders who care.

Help out our teachers: http://www.democraticunderground.com/112411511

Since, apparently, our elected officials won't.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

20. I have to buy paper and ink for the printer as there is no money left

I pay for most school supplies. We are told to fundraise and have fashion shows!

[Alex4Martinez]

25. Thank you for caring.

I work with teachers, I'm a former teacher and admin and now just provide resources to schools and teachers.

The point is, thank you. I'm always impressed by how much you do, yet saddened that there's no light at the end of the tunnel.

The job is fraught with danger and disappointment and it's only the compassion and love that teachers have that keeps them going, and these energies are significant!

We cannot just expect parents to cough up the money, and we know that the most needy kids often have parents that can't or won't cover these needs. We have to help those kids in particular. Arrrrghhhh.

From a global perspective, doesn't it seem curious that nobody cares, or that underserving so many seems intentional?

After all, doesn't it serve the one percent, the rich and powerful, that we should have an underclass and build them from an early age?

tinfoilhat but I see it everywhere. They cut health, they cut transit, more and more working poor never get ahead, it's wage slavery.

[RealAmericanDem]

24. “Israel constitutes the largest US aircraft carrier"

According to the former Supreme Commander of NATO forces and Secretary of State, the late General Alexander Haig: “Israel constitutes the largest US aircraft carrier, which does not require a single US boot on board, cannot be sunk, deployed in a most critical region to the US economy and national security. And, if there were not Israel in the eastern flank of the Mediterranean, the US would have to deploy – to the region – a few more real aircraft carriers and tens of thousands of troops, which would have cost the US taxpayer some $15 BN annually. All of which is spared by the existence of Israel.”

Israel has been the most cost-effective, battle-tested laboratory of the US defense industries; the most reliable and practical beachhead/outpost of the US defense forces; sharing with the US unique intelligence, battle experience and battle tactics. Thus, Israel extends the US strategic hand, at a time when the US is experiencing draconian cuts in its defense budget, curtailing the size of its military force and the global deployment of troops, while facing tough international industrial-defense competition and dramatically intensified threats of Islamic terrorism overseas and on the US mainland.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

27. cannot be sunk?

as if that will protect the region? It's old warfare. The US needs to update it's strategies in the middle east at a lower cost.

[A Simple Game]

33. Did Haig have anything to say about friendly fire from that aircraft carrier?

Some of us never forget.

[Spider Jerusalem]

50. Al Haig? Ahahahahahahahaha.

That's fucking hilarious.

The biggest and most costly mistake of American foreign and military policy since Vietnam (the second Iraq war) is partly Israel's fault (because the Mossad supplied faulty or outright false intelligence re nonexistent Iraqi WMDs and lobbied the Bush administration for an attack). That's cost the US taxpayer something like two trillion dollars (which is more than $150 BILLION a year, every year since 2003).

[FairWinds]

71. Everything in your post is wrong, but this is really laughable . .

You wrote, ". . the US is experiencing draconian cuts in its defense budget,"

So, ah, what is your source for that assertion?

And what are the figures for these "draconian cuts"?

[haele]

73. Draconian cuts are in support funds to the personnel and to things not part of aquisition.

From what has been observed out of the Navy Times and other publically available military information sources.
So, the actual soldiers and sailors and their DoD-provided support infrastructure (including pay, advancement, benefits, education, deployment support, housing, medical, and retirement) is feeling the pinch, but the corporate/commercial support side of the DoD - the MIC - is doing just fine.

Haele

[FairWinds]

79. I'm a vet, and agree with you here . .

the MIC vacuums up most everything.

In Vietnam we could not get basic supplies . .

But it is WAAAAY incorrect to write that the military is getting
"draconian cuts." It is just not true.

In fact, they get about $ 1.2 Trillion per year.

[haele]

83. To the average soldier or sailor trying to pay the bills and do their job, it's "draconian".

Also to some of divisions across the DoD SYSCOMs that are attempting to operate on funding that is still at 2009 levels. This is pretty much true across the federal government as a whole; the less sexy or potentially profitable the program to privatization, the funding just isn't there.
But it is true that overall, there are no draconian cuts within the DoD budget. There is just a significant inbalance of funding between the commercially profitable sectors and those operational sectors that are supposed to break even at the end of the FY or the POM.

Haele

[zentrum]

28. Correct me if...

.....I'm wrong, but I think this is a kind of money laundering operation, at least in part.

Some of that aid turns around and is given to certain select pro-Israeli politicians---through AIPAC and other funders. Is that not so?

In which case all taxpayers pay for an Israeli Lobby in DC and for the candidates that benefit from that, regardless of who the taxpayer actually wants to support.

I'll retract all this if it isn't how it works.

Love Amy Goodman.

[Cassiopeia]

30. That's pennies.

We give trillions away to industry as a whole. Whether it's through subsidies or near interest free lending to banks, that we then borrow from at higher rates....

We give it all away, yet the people that struggle at the bottom are the problem.

Sadly, we have zero change in sight. Bernie might not have gotten anything done, but he could have halted some of it. Instead we continue working for dimes and giving so much of it back to those with everything. Nothing changes for at least 4 years, likely 12.

[Festivito]

31. I don't think 1.6% of health care spending would fix healthcare's problems.

Neither with our without ACA.

[Scootaloo]

52. Hmmm

Improve our health care situation by 1.6%, or use that cash to further the already assured destruction of Palestine?

I'll take the 1.6%

[jalan48]

35. It would be nice to get an itemized accounting for this $40 B.

How much to contractors, consultants and actual product (what is being made with the money). I have a suspicion some may even find it's way back here to reward faithful political leaders. Thank you taxpayers.

[tabasco]

36. Health care in Israel is universal and participation in a medical insurance plan is compulsory.

All Israeli citizens are entitled to basic health care as a fundamental right.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_care_in_Israel

As long as we're not trying to be a civilized nation, at least we're supporting one.

[WHEN CRABS ROAR]

37. How many of our taxpayers does it take

to raise 49 billion dollars?

[oberliner]

39. It's actually a minuscule amount of the budget

Last edited Mon Jun 20, 2016, 12:54 PM - Edit history (1)

Our total foreign aid to all countries, Israel included, is less than one percent of the budget.

[WHEN CRABS ROAR]

80. The question remains.

How many individual taxpayers does it take.
here in Curry County Oregon the federal government owns over 60% of the land and the county is going broke, a minuscule amount of that money would be a god send.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

84. yes

[oberliner]

38. They use that money to buy US weapons

So basically it's a way to funnel more money into our own defense industry.

Incidentally, we spend about $700 billion a year on Defense. Maybe we can shave a few billion off that in order to provide healthcare to all our citizens?

[The Wizard]

40. Israel has Universal healthcare (NT)

[elmac]

41. 51st state?

and plenty of influence with their, I'm mean our political parties.

[Sam_Fields]

43. What they really are doing is giving the money to Israel so it can buy weapons from US Suppliers

We do the same thing with Egypt.

[davidthegnome]

44. They may have a rotten government...

However - it does help provide them with healthcare. Some times I think we deserve what the neoliberals and neoconservatives have done to us. Particularly at times like this.

Forty billion would not pay for universal healthcare here in the US - but it could definitely help. Surgeries, cancer treatments, dental work, therapy.

Speaking as someone who has no health insurance and no way to get it - the walls are closing in on me. Screwed up my back a year ago and it's in rough shape. Out of work, no way to get physical therapy or any kind of help that would make a difference. Teeth that are screwed up that no amount of brushing can fix. Psychological... issues - but fortunately, my parents can at least buy my generic medications for me.

What else could we do with forty billion? Use it to help hungry families? Better fund some school districts? Repair various broken bridges, roads, maybe fund some kind of public transportation for some areas. True, forty billion wouldn't do all of the things we want, but it could help a little with some of them. Would make a huge damn difference in the lives of those it helped.

I'm not against helping out our allies and friends - but using this funding to air them militarily while so many of our own people are starving, sick, homeless...

Of course there are greater issues, particularly with regard to financial/political corruption and various larger amounts of money that go missing, or go towards even worse things. Still, it's worth noting I think - that Israel does indeed already have healthcare for all of it's citizens, like many other Countries.

[raysefo439]

45. Yeah, it's a shitty situation

Oh well, anything to make the MIC happy, even at the expense of countless people suffering in this sad country. I'm tempted to just move to a European country at this point.

[Monk06]

47. Canada will spend $50 Billion in 2016 on total government program spending and interest on the

nationalal dept That is in Canadian dollars

So the US is spending more to arm Israel in 2016 than it costs Canada to run the entire country

Israel is the biggest welfare deadbeat in history and Americans are paying for it

[Monk06]

54. Even so the military aid going to other counties every year is more than the budgets of mediam sized

counties

Check out this statistice on US foreign military aid per hour in 2016

https://www.nationalpriorities.org/cost-of/foreign-military-assistance/

Also 56% of discretionary spending by the US government on the military

Yet national healthcare is too expensive and will bankrupt the country

[sarcasmo]

48. Kick

[rrivers1]

55. The Federal Health care budget 2016 is 1.4428 Trillion.

It's hard to rap my head around that. That is 1,442,800,000,000.00. That is approximately 4500.00 per person. Last year the average cost of healthcare was over 10K for the first time. So to pay for the the 320 million "citizens" only, Universal coverage would cost about 3.2T a year. We currently bring in about 3.3T and spend 3.95T a year 19T in debt. Social security is now underfunded by about 12T. how is this fixed?

[RobertEarl]

56. Welcome to DU

With a single payer most overhead is cut. Bad doctors can be cut. Over profiteering can be cut. The whole system can be streamlined.

Other counties with such systems have better health care at reduced per capita costs. We can do even better.

[hughee99]

74. Healthcare spending in the US was $3 TRILLION in 2014.

Israel is going to get $40 billion over 10 years, or about 4 billion a year, so all we would need to do is cut healthcare spending by 99.86% to get the numbers to work out here.

I'm not saying we can't do better, but equating the 4 billion a year for Israel and suggesting it has ANY affect on not having single-payer is just ridiculous.

[Soxfan58]

62. Funding

Palestinian genocide.

[elljay]

64. Only if you don't understanding the meaning of the word

So tired of this false. Genocide is the complete destruction of an ethnic group. You may not like Israeli policies ( I don't) but the entire total of deaths on both sides, including Israelis, Palestinians, Syrians, Egyptians, Jordanians, Iraqis for the past century of conflict is around 100,000. Considering the large and continuing increase in Palestinian population over that time, it is not anywhere near a genocide. Facts are important.

[Orrex]

76. Has genocide ever occurred in modern history, by that definition?

[elljay]

78. Yes, attempted genocides

The attempted destruction of the entire Yazidi people is being attempted right now by ISIL. The Nazis attempted to destroy the Roma and Jewish people, and in Rwanda we had the Hutu trying to destroy the Tutsi. Genocide differs from murder in the intent to remove an entire culture/ethnicity/group. What is happening in Syria, for example, is mass murder but he only attempt at genocide is ISIL's attempt to eliminate the Yazidi people.

[Orrex]

82. What percentage must be slain before it qualifies as "attempted genocide" in your view?

You defined genocide as "the complete destruction of an ethnic group," but is that actually the definition?

Article II

In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:

(a) Killing members of the group;

(b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;

(c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;

(d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;

(e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.

From The Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide, which I take as a reasonably authoritative treatment of the subject.

The treatment of Palestinians certainly meets criteria (a), (b) and (c). So where does that leave us?

Yes, Palestinians strike specifically at Israelis, but there's also the question of relative threat levels (e.g., the most powerful military in the region is wholeheartedly supported by the most powerful military in the history of the world versus a poorly organized and scattershot resistance with little likelihood of success).


In short, I'm not sure that I see the value of insisting that the treatment of Palestinians can't be termed "genocide," when it clearly seems to satisfy the definition put forth by The Convention.

[LeftishBrit]

63. It's not exactly giving away; it's in return for Israel buying American weapons and supporting

American foreign policy. Egypt as well. All part of the good old military-industrial complex.

For the rest: it's not that you CAN'T have healthcare for all. It's that the government (at the moment mainly Congress) WON'T. Some of it's ideological; quite a lot IMO is the American government being bought and paid for by the insurance and pharma companies. It's scary and even in the UK we have a huge fight on our hands against creeping attempts to turn our own healthcare system into something similar.

[muktiman]

65. It's Expensive to run an Empire

[blondie58]

66. I totally agree

Bibi dissed our Predident- not cool.
And I am tired of the way the Palestinians are treated- it is their land too.

[Fast Walker 52]

68. really sickening, IMHO

http://www.democracynow.org/2016/6/16/headlines

Israel-- we will do ANYTHING for you, literally anything.

[midnight]

70. This is a tragedy considering with our tax dollars coming into their country they have

Health care for all, and shows that they rank higher than the United States as being healthier.

"Israel's high standards of health services, top-quality medical resources and research, modern hospital facilities, and an impressive ratio of physicians and specialists to population are reflected in the country’s low infant mortality rate (3.6 per 1,000 live births in 2010) and long life expectancy (81.5 years, average in 2010). Health care for all, from infancy to old age, is ensured by law and the national expenditure on health compares favorably with that of other developed countries.

In November 2015 Bloomberg ranked Israel the sixth healthiest country in the world, taking into account data from the United Nations, the World Bank and the World Health Organization. Israel was the only Middle-Eastern country to appear in the top 10, and the United States, Australia, Germany, Switzerland, Japan, Sweden, and U.K., all ranked lower than Israel on the list."

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Health/health_gen.html

[lark]

72. There's a lot more $ and power to be had from munitions than from healthcare.

You can see our reps. true values here. It's not just enough for us to have a vastly bloated defense budget, we have to let Americans die so that Israel gets $40 billion for their war machine. Sickening.

[rladdi]

75. And now Israel is funding more housing to stop any talks on peace. I have some to believe

Israel and it leaders are the real terrorist in the MIddle East.

[Else You Are Mad]

77. If Isreal was a Muslim nation...

We would have overthrown Netanyahu years ago for what the war crimes they have and are committing.