It's gonna be crazy if the UK leaves.

[DanTex]

And the numbers are pointing that way. Kind of unbelievable. This is the problem with referendums, people might do something really dumb.

The British pound is down 7% at $1.40 (good time for a vacation in London lol). FTSE futures down 6%. CNN International is talking about how this will trigger a new Scottish Independence referendum.

Buckle up.

[Aerows]

1. Financial panic speculation

Manipulating to keep them in line.

Problem is, the UK can afford to stop being kept in line. France already has rumblings.

[DanTex]

6. Yeah, 7% drop in the Pound and 6% drop in FTSE qualifies as a panic.

Nobody's manipulating them, the markets are tanking on their own. Nobody knows how bad this will be for the UK economy, but it's definitely going to hurt.

Even in the US, S&P 500 futures are down about 2% right now.

And it could get worse, Brexit hasn't happened yet.

[Aerows]

7. You must be watching Asian markets.

Are you?

[DanTex]

9. How are they doing? I checked US and UK markets.

I can't imagine Asian markets are doing very well right now.

[Aerows]

14. You checked when the exchange is over?

You do realize that even currency markets have fixed times to be open and closed?

Since ... the vote came in after those hours.

Would you care to search "times currency market in X country is open"? "Stock market is open depending on agency"?

Vote wasn't finished. Welcome to the world of a bunch of people who shorted and lost. Or won, depending upon how they invested in it.

[DanTex]

16. Futures markets. They are open all night. Google them.

In Asia, the Nikkei is down 3% right now. Gonna be a bloody day all over the world tomorrow unless the vote changes drastically.

[Aerows]

20. Oh I know.

That's why I said "a bunch of shorts". Nothing firm until the stocks open.

That's where the rubber meets the road, the funding to pay for it arrives, and the tears or jubilation begins.

[DanTex]

22. If you think the futures markets are way off, you can make a lot of money.

For all intents and purposes, the futures market is where the market is. It's liquid, and especially tonight people are staying up all over the world trading them.

But like I said, in Japan the Nikkei is down 3%, the actual Nikkei not futures. Gonna be bloody.

[Aerows]

23. Agreed to all of the above. n/t

[Recursion]

38. Bombay Stock Exchange opens in 15 minutes, meaning before the vote is decided

The rupee didn't budge much overnight. But the India market has the double whammy of just having had the Reserve Bank of India governor pushed out by PM Modi.

Meanwhile, Nikkei opened down 3.5%. Oy.

[tritsofme]

2. Britain and Europe will have to do business together.

There was a lot of posturing before the vote, but they will have no choice but to come to an amicable agreement. Obama should get Britain included into TPP.

[Aerows]

5. The EU declares that

foreign nations give up their sovereignty in one way or another.

The TPP will do that to the US.

I hope the ashes they taste in greedy slobbering mouths is a mere appetizer.

[DanTex]

8. Yeah, they will, but this throws a huge wrench into it.

And the major financial centers in Europe are going to try to use this to take away London's banking prowess, which could really hurt the UK. No, I don't think there will be a trade war, but this is not good.

[greatauntoftriplets]

17. OMG, what will happen to booze cruises to Calais and other French ports?

[roamer65]

80. There will be a trade agreement between the EU and the UK.

The Germans are not stupid and will make sure of it.

[Corporate666]

88. Add together Germany and the UK...

and you get about 1/3rd of the entire European economy.

The EU is large in number of member states, but the majority of it's economic strength comes from a small few. You're absolutely correct - Germany and the other top couple of nations in EU aren't going to let spite and grudges trump sensible economic policy.

Germany needs trade with the UK. The Euro has propped up their exports and they can't afford to sever ties with their third largest customer. Just not gonna happen.

Juncker can say whatever he wants. Merkel isn't going to toss Germany into recession when they're already reeling from the immigrant crisis just to make a point to any other nations thinking of leaving.

[SheilaT]

84. Include Britain in the TPP?

Don't those letters stand for Trans Pacific Partnership? Remind me, what part of Great Britain borders on the Pacific. Maybe I'm confused.

[tritsofme]

85. Call it what you want, it is the free trade agreement that will be successor to NAFTA.

If Britain joined, TPP would encompass the vast majority of the Anglosphere, so could also be logical from that perspective.

[SheilaT]

86. I'm under the impression that the TPP means Trans Pacific something or another.

What have I missed?

[tritsofme]

87. Yes...that is the initialism they came up with...If there are obstacles to Britain joining

I'm thinking the name of the agreement is not going to be one of them...

[SheilaT]

89. It's not just a set of initials.

It's specifically a consortium of countries that border the Pacific Ocean. No part of Great Britain is on the Pacific Ocean.

Nor is it part of North America. So joining NAFTA probably isn't going to happen.

Maybe an Atlantic Trade Organization. But I'm not aware of any such in the works.

[tritsofme]

90. I'm not sure why you are so hung up on geography.

There would clearly be a value proposition worth pursuing to a free trade deal involving the world's 1st, 3rd, and 5th largest economies. Britain also has strong pre-existing trade relationships with many of our other TPP partners. This would also become a free trade agreement that united the Anglosphere of the US, UK, NZ,
Canada, and Australia, I think it makes a lot of sense.

If there is to be a UK/US trade deal, I would say that something under the auspices of TPP is far more likely than a bilateral agreement. I am not suggesting NAFTA because TPP is the successor agreement.

[SheilaT]

91. I'm not sure why you don't understand that there

are specific agreements that are meant for specific regions of the world. TPP is not a successor agreement to NAFTA. It really is something quite different. And the only country common to those two is our country. Not to mention the NA part of NAFTA stands for North America, not North Atlantic.

You seem to think that these are trade agreements anyone can join. That's not the way they work.

The EU is for European countries. All the member states are in Europe. The United States is not part of Europe, and it's unlikely in the extreme we'd be joining.

A strong relationship with member states isn't a prelude to joining.

And Obama himself told the British government that if they leave the EU they can't count on our rushing in to set up new trade agreements with them. Of course, he could change his mind about that and after this fall's election the new President might think differently.

Anyway, you seem to be viewing agreements in specific parts of the world rather casually, as if the name is just a meaningless set of initials.

[tritsofme]

92. Canada and Mexico will be part of TPP, the USTR has called it a renegotiation of NAFTA.

https://ustr.gov/sites/default/files/TPP-Upgrading-the-North-American-Free-Trade-Agreement-NAFTA-Fact-Sheet.pdf

I think you are assigning far too much value to the initials. If other TPP members agreed, I have not seen what the legal obstacles to Britain potentially joining would be. Remember, the world changed today.

We are currently working on a free trade agreement with the EU through TTIP negotiations, but after a Brexit there will a need for a separate deal with Britain, and as I said, joining TPP seems more likely than a bilateral trade deal. They will of course more urgently have to make new terms with the EU.

The punitive rhetoric from Obama and other Western leaders prior to the vote was just that, rhetoric, this is an outcome they were (rightfully) trying to avoid. It is going to be a rocky road, but it is in everyone's interest to work and do business together with the least amount of disruption to the global economy as possible.

[SheilaT]

94. Canada and Mexico have borders on the Pacific.

Britain doesn't.

[tritsofme]

96. You seem to think this is really important for some reason.

It's not. But there is always the Pitcairns if that satisfies your semantic test.

If, and it is a considerable if, other TPP members agreed to accept Britain's application, there would be no legal obstacle that I have seen reported.

Suppose Brazil or some other non-Pacific South American country expressed interest in joining TPP, would we deny them on that basis? While Peru, Chile, Colombia, et al are able to join? I highly doubt it.

[RAFisher]

3. I'm really regretting not getting my passport a few month ago.

WOW just dropped below $1.40 per GPB!

[DanTex]

11. $1.37 now! Down 10%. Could go lower.

[Barack_America]

4. And yet Scotland is voting heavily for "Remain".

As is Northern Ireland.

[brooklynite]

13. They want a stable country to secede from?

[enid602]

83. Britain

Scottish and Northern Irish Ministers have already said that if Britain secedes, it forfeits the mandate for a United Kingdom. Financial interests in Paris, Frankfurt and NY are licking their chops to lure London's financial center away from the UK. That's Britain's biggest employer, and British auto manufacturing, which has grown in recent years is owned by the Germans. Britain is history. Reminds me of the old joke where someone knocks on the door of Buckingham Palace, and the butler answers the door and says 'the Queen's out touring the empire. . . should be back any moment. '

[Kilgore]

77. Confusing why their turnout was low.

Not sure they are so worried about it.

[swhisper1]

10. I find it so interesting to see which US corporations are for and which are against Brexit

The countries are starting to realize just how bad it is to let corporations rule them

[840high]

74. Not just there.

[NuclearDem]

12. What I'm finding truly astounding

is how hard it is to tell the difference between rhetoric being spewed by supposed American liberals and that by Nigel Farage.

Just another nail in the coffin of the British Empire.

[greatauntoftriplets]

19. Seriously.

[DanTex]

24. I think it's a little different.

Farage's anti-trade is like Trump's anti-trade. It's based on xenophobia, racism, and mercantilism.

The left's anti-trade feelings are based on opposition to jobs being shipped overseas to sweatshops. That might be simplistic economic thinking -- I'm not anti-trade myself -- but it's not the same as Trump/Farage.

[RAFisher]

29. Really? Farage sounds like an educated Trump.

Anti-immigration. Anti-Muslim. Protect the boarders. I believe Farage is the only British Politian to speak favorably about Trump.

[Odin2005]

95. I think the similarity is that both are prone to consiracy theorizing and look for...

...individual cartoonish villains to blame rather than paying attention to impersonal social and economic forces. They are the kind of people who think just getting rid of the Koch Bros. would solve our problems.

As a genuine radical leftist I think these people need to read more Marx and Bookchin and less Counterpunch.

[flamingdem]

15. Bloody 'ell

Buying opportunity?

[ret5hd]

18. I'm glad you're here to Amerisplain it to them.

[DanTex]

21. I think the 7% drop in their stock market and 10% drop in GBP is explaining it pretty well.

[DanTex]

55. If you think you're smarter than the market, then cash in.

[Kang Colby]

69. No one is smarter than the market. But I am certain that no matter what happens...

the global markets will be ok. Until capital can be invested on other planets, I'll continue to bet that global equity will be just fine over the long haul.

If the S&P 500 drops 7% tomorrow, BFD.

[geek tragedy]

64. Then you should buy every pound sterling and UK equity share

you can.

[flamingdem]

81. Does the working class much care about

the stock market?

[BootinUp]

25. Maybe there is a silver lining

in that the importance of trade policy will become clearer afterwards.

[DanTex]

26. I hope so.

But the flip side is that the economic consequences are worse than predicted, Trump could benefit from the chaos.

[kcjohn1]

27. People rejecting neoliberilsm

EU is undemocratic neoliberal institution run by the 1% for the 1%. Can't blame Britains taking back their sovereignty.

[NuclearDem]

28. I'm not sure you know what those words mean.

[kcjohn1]

31. Which part do you disagree

Do you think the EU is democratic?

Or you think EU is concerned with the plight of working people over the 1%?

[NuclearDem]

34. Black helicopters are coming for you!

Coming to implement Agenda 21 as we speak!

[DanTex]

32. It's a vote for xenophobia and anti-immigration.

[kcjohn1]

35. I agree about the xenophobia and anti-immigration

But the principle is correct. People of Britain should decide immigration policy and other important laws instead of non elected plutocrat in Brussels.

I personally don't have huge issues with the EU on the basis of immigration policy (I don't think that is the problem). But if this leads to the destruction of the EU in the current format, I'm all for it.

[DanTex]

41. No, the principle is not right.

This is going to hurt the UK economically. Sure, if the British people think it's worth tanking their economy in order to keep immigrants out, that's their right. That doesn't make it a good idea. The EU bureaucracy has lots of problems, but it's still better for them and for everyone else if they are part of it than not.

[cherokeeprogressive]

82. I think it's funny... you believing Brussels knows what's best for Brits more than Brits do.

And I have to ask... do you think the main problem with US foreign policy over the last few decades is the fact we meddle in other countries' affairs with the false belief we know what's best for them more than they know what's best for themselves?

The Brits will be OK. Let them decide their own future and stop meddling in their collective wishes.

[LanternWaste]

93. "I think it's funny... you believing Trump voters knows what's best for Americans more than...

"I think it's funny... you believing Trump voters knows what's best for Americans more than (insert any nation here) do..."
Six of one, half a dozen of the other... and each as without merit as the other.


"Let them decide their own future and stop meddling in their collective wishes."
How precisely do posters meddle in their collective wishes simply via discussion on a message board? Magic?

[uppityperson]

68. Seriously, stamp collecting is a good hobby

[840high]

76. Yep. I have friends

in Britain who are probably celebrating now.

[PowerToThePeople]

30. Hey look a prime example

of what is wrong with America.

A bunch of supposed "liberals" talking about ways to potentially make money off of chaos. Not by actually making anything or contributing one iota to the world but just skimming some profit from trading the swings of destruction of real people's lives.

[geek tragedy]

33. This is the death of the United Kingdom nt

[NuclearDem]

37. Not to mention the blow to Europe as a whole.

[geek tragedy]

39. UK never adopted the Euro so it was never committed

like other members are.

De Gaulle is smiling.

[craigmatic]

48. Yes that is true but if you look at the overall history of Europe these big structures intended to

create peace and stability always rise and fall every century or so. Look at the concert of Europe, their agreement to split up Africa among them, and even the League of Nations these things happen like clockwork.

[yeoman6987]

36. If England leaves other countries will follow and leave too

[geek tragedy]

40. Scotland will leave the UK. nt

[FLPanhandle]

42. Would an independent Scotland be admitted to the EU?

They are pretty small and trade wise tied to England more the EU.

[geek tragedy]

46. There are smaller countries in the EU, no?

Only possibility to be part of EU is divorcing England.

[iandhr]

67. Defiantly not.

Spain would block it. It would set a precedent for Catalonia leaving Spain and rejoining the EU as an independent country.

[Barack_America]

43. But they voted overwhelmingly to remain in the EU.

[NuclearDem]

45. And if the UK as a whole leaves, then Scotland just secedes

and petitions for membership in the EU.

[tritsofme]

47. They would be forced off the pound.

Which would be very disruptive. It's still an open question if they would leave.

[geek tragedy]

49. It was close last time.

This will push them out. Probably should be done gradually to transition to the Euro.

[tritsofme]

73. The UK would probably play more hardball in their stay campaign.

And I think the pound is one of their biggest leverage points. If I remember correctly the status of the North Sea oil is another big one.

Then again, all the scare tactics in the world, true or not, appear to have failed tonight at the UK national level, it will be certainly be an interesting couple of years.

But in the end, Conservatives probably wouldn't be all that displeased if Scotland left, it would lock them into power in the UK that remained.

[geek tragedy]

75. Scotland could stay on the pound until they transitioned to

either their own currency or the Euro.

They and England no longer share a common destiny.

[yeoman6987]

51. True

But France and other countries will leave the EU.

[geek tragedy]

57. They can hold another.

Very clear that their destiny needs to be separate from the Farage/Boris Johnson crowd to their south.

[geek tragedy]

62. Slightly?

This is a major change of circumstances.

England has embraced Trumpism. Scotland needs a divorce from Boris Johnson.

[Agschmid]

71. Yah nothing says they aren't sovereign like a referendum to exit...

[AngryAmish]

44. Last week Soros got out of cash and into gold. Hmmmmm.

He broke the pound before....

[Joe the Revelator]

50. I don't have much to add...

other than I'm pretty surprised at the way this is playing out. Interesting times, indeed.

[BlueNoMatterWho]

52. Nigel Farage: 'Let June 23rd go down in history as our independence day'

[RKP5637]

53. At minimal, the financial markets are going to fluctuate, IMO, severely. n/t

[Purveyor]

58. We best hope our electorate isn't in the same mood come November. I fear they are but we

should have the numbers.

[BlueNoMatterWho]

60. So true.

[Person 2713]

63. Let's calmly maintain for 5 months and add voters because this country is known for its mood swings

[Purveyor]

66. We've got a whole lot of work to do. I didn't expect this outcome tonight. Not at all... eom

[Beacool]

78. That's what happens when the equivalent of the Trump supporters win.

The pound sterling is plummeting. It will adversely affect all markets, including our own, but they now will be free to reject any refugee they choose. The yodels were in favor of Brexit mostly because they are just as xenophobic and racist as Trump supporters. The orange yam will be chortling like a canary over the exit of the UK from the EU.

[rainbow4321]

79. Yep, I have a relative going there this week on vacation..

A less expensive one now, apparently....