Insane video. Crowd sees any signs of "Nazis" and they run&attack. A lot of people bleeding/

[riversedge]

Frances Wang Verified account
‏@ABC10Frances


Insane video. Crowd sees any signs of "Nazis" and they run&attack. A lot of people bleeding/getting maced. @ABC10

https://twitter.com/ABC10Frances/status/747150303762382849




Larry and 3 others follow
Breaking911 ‏@Breaking911 32m32 minutes ago

Multiple People Stabbed When Counter-Protesters Clash With 'Traditionalist Worker Party' In Sacramento @ABC10Frances
https://twitter.com/Breaking911/status/747145226507124736

[riversedge]

1. Frances Who the hell are the Traditionalist Worker Party and why do they cause stabbiness? ~ a neigh

SH Moron ‏@tyderium 18m18 minutes ago

@Breaking911 @tomservo10 @ABC10Frances Who the hell are the Traditionalist Worker Party and why do they cause stabbiness? ~ a neighbor

[csziggy]

7. From the Southern Poverty Law Center:

Meet the New Wave of Extremists Gearing Up for the 2016 Elections
Keegan Hankes
October 19, 2015

<SNIP>

TWP {Traditionalist Workers Party}, formed in January of this year as the political wing of the Traditionalist Youth Network (TYN), an identitarian-inspired umbrella group that aims to indoctrinate high school and college students into white nationalism.

According to the TWP website, “TradWorker is less about the candidates and campaigns than it is about building relationships of loyalty and support at the neighborhood and community level.” The site goes on to say, “Our mission is defending faith, family, and folk against the politicians and oligarchs who are running America into the ground. We intend to achieve that goal by building a nationwide network of grassroots local leaders who will lead Americans toward a peaceful and prosperous future free from economic exploitation, federal tyranny, and anti-Christian degeneracy.”

Such language, disingenuously cloaked in claims of love for one’s “own people” as opposed to hatred for anyone, is typical from TWP’s virulently racist and anti-Semitic parent organization.

https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch/2015/10/19/meet-new-wave-extremists-gearing-2016-elections

[csziggy]

10. I've read a lot of good things about the SPLC

What is your point?

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

13. Oh really? Do tell. I can't wait. nt

[LeftyMom]

17. Oh? Explain.

[Loki]

34. Southern Poverty Law Center

Duh, one of the most prolific anti-bigotry, anti-racist, best known for monitoring hate groups in the US, and suing them into oblivion.

[LeftyMom]

41. Don't duh me, I know that. I really want to hear the deleted poster's explanation.

I'm sure it's going to be fascinating.

[pinboy3niner]

50. Ironically, the chair of this nazi group protested at SPLC's Civil Rights Memorial

Matthew Heimbach held up a confederate flag in front of SPLC HQ in Montgomery, Alabama, right in front of MLK's words engraved on the wall there and right next to the water table engraved with the names of those who died in the civil rights struggle.

He has done the same thing with that racist flag at MLK memorials and at markers for the Montgomery bus boycott and posted photos at facebook.

It makes someone here slamming SPLC in this context all the more offensive.

[Separation]

54. OH but but but

That flag isn't racist.


And where the hell did the shrug smilie run off to?

[pinboy3niner]

55. Maybe it's just me, but I have no idea what you are trying to say. nt

[Separation]

56. IN your post

You mentioned that they carried the Confederate flag in the protest.

I was making a smart assed comment that some people try to say that the confederate flag isn't about racism when in clearly is.

I was also honestly asking where the shrug smilie was as well.

[pinboy3niner]

57. Thankyou for clarifying

I didn't think you were defending the use of that flag.

The shrug smilie is one whose meaning often isn't clear to me, so I've rarely used it, especially on a serious issue.

Semper Fi!

[sufrommich]

20. Are you sure you know what the SPLC is? nt

[womanofthehills]

45. Here is a video of a Traditionalist Worker Party member/founder abusing a black women at Trump rally

What is happening at the Trump is probably inciting BAM big time.

"BAMN stands for By Any Means Necessary, and its full name is the Coalition to Defend Affirmative Action, Integration & Immigrant Rights, and Fight for Equality By Any Means Necessary.

At the center of the pushing- and yelling-match was Matthew Heimbach, founder of the Traditionalist Youth Network and its companion white nationalist organization, the Traditionalist Workers Party. He calls himself “chairman of the only true Third Position Party in the United States that is fighting for Faith, family and folk.”

https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch/2016/03/02/white-nationalists-involved-physical-altercation-protesters-trump-rally

[pinboy3niner]

51. Also see #50, above. nt

[womanofthehills]

53. More on Heimbach and flyer to shut down rally - connected big time to Trump's racism

On June 26th, The Traditionalist Workers Party, the political wing of Matthew Heimbach’s Traditionalist Youth Network, has called for a public action. Starting in the Alt Right, the TYN/TWP has quickly moved towards more street racist organizations and is affiliating, to some degree, with The Sacto Skins, Golden State Skinheads, National Socialist Movement, California Skinheads (CAS), Blood & Honor and the Ku Klux Klan.

Matthew Heimbach was recently fired from his attempt to work as a family case manager for Indiana social services when his nationalism was discovered. This was easy since he violently attacked and removed an African American protester at a Donald Trump rally, as well as continuing his far-right street activism in opposition to things like immigration, same-sex marriage, and Black Lives Matter. He gained notoriety earlier in his life for forming the White Student Union at the Towson University Campus, and later was connected with the Aryan Terror Brigade, the American Freedom Party, and the League of the South.

Heimbach and TYN/TWP is holding a rally on the steps of the California capitol building in Sacramento, at 1315 10th St, Sacramento, California(95814). The event is somewhat of a wildcard in terms of attendance, yet it will likely include all of the open racists from the surrounding area. For those in California, this will not come as a surprise since skinhead gangs and KKK locals have been there for years, and now the DONALD TRUMP CAMPAIGN HAS MADE THEM FEEL EMBOLDENED.

https://antifascistnews.net/2016/05/22/battle-for-sacramento-antifa-sacramento-to-confront-traditionalist-workers-party-on-june-26th/

[riversedge]

2. Counter-protestors calling this group of police "Nazi chauffeurs" @ABC10

Frances Wang ‏@ABC10Frances 9m9 minutes ago

Just heard a loud BOOM. @ABC10
82 retweets 20 likes

https://twitter.com/ABC10Frances/status/747153019293229056


Frances Wang ‏@ABC10Frances 19m19 minutes ago Sacramento, CA

VIDEO to show what today has been like. See crowds running. Follow crowds. See people getting attacked. @ABC10
117 retweets 31 likes




Counter-protestors calling this group of police "Nazi chauffeurs" @ABC10





Frances Wang ‏@ABC10Frances 30m30 minutes ago

So much video I want to post but cussing everywhere. Will have to edit first. @ABC10
View conversation
18 retweets 28 likes


Frances Wang ‏@ABC10Frances 33m33 minutes ago

Counter-protestors calling this group of police "Nazi chauffeurs" @ABC10
48 retweets 19 likes
Frances Wang ‏@ABC10Frances 34m34 minutes ago Sacramento, CA

Police on top of Capitol. @ABC10

[NutmegYankee]

3. It's a problem when the crowd attacks a legally organized rally.

Counter-protest is always OK, but violence is not the proper response ever. Free Speech and Assembly means sometimes a bunch of fucksticks are going to demonstrate.

[riversedge]

8. It seems, from what I have read, the counter protesters had the intent of

causing real problems. Stabbing?? I do not know about--who had the knifes??

[womanofthehills]

47. A legally organized extremely racist rally with violent members

[NutmegYankee]

61. That doesn't change the fact that they had the permit to hold a rally.

Speech is to answered with more speech, not baseball bats, bottles, and rocks.

[womanofthehills]

65. Extreme hate speech - Trump seems to be empowering the skinheads

[snooper2]

67. no, those dipshits have rallies all the time, Drumpf doesn't get credit

for every fucking asshole in the country...They were assholes doing this before he was on the stage.

[womanofthehills]

68. Trump does get some credit for empowering them - egging them on during his rallys

"I Was Called a Ni**er and a C**t," Says Protester Shiya Nyamguna Shoved Out of Trump Rally by Traditional Youth Network

http://gawker.com/true-that-that-was-more-rhetorical-than-literal-i-kno-1762417335

The activist and New York Daily News columnist Shaun King devoted his latest column to the incident, calling it the “natural progression” of the U.S. white supremacist movement’s embrace of Trump.

King speculates that the bearded man in a red cap seen in the video pushing Nwanguma is Matthew Heimbach, a prominent young white supremacist. Heimbach first gained attention for starting a “White Student Union” at his college and was later called the “The Little Führer” and “Newest Leader of White Nationalists” in an Al-Jazeera profile.

[pinboy3niner]

48. UPDATE: The nazi group, expecting protesters, armed themselves with knives

Matthew Heimbach, leader of the Traditionalist Worker Party, was not at the rally but told CNN that TWP members armed themselves with knives, with blades within the California legal limit. He said they'd been threatened on social media forums. An affiliate group, the Golden State Skinheads, joined them for the rally, he said.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/26/us/brawl-at-california-rally/

[womanofthehills]

52. From Antifa Sacramento on Facebook - one of the anti-facist groups

Today in Sacramento, Anti-Fascist Action in conjunction with hundreds of fellow Anti-Fascists from near and far successfully shut down the Traditionalist Worker’s Party (TWP) attempt to hold a white supremacist rally on the capitol. Protestors took and held the west steps, preventing the fascists from being able to reach their rally destination.
TWP chairman Matthew Heimbach skipped out on the rally despite making previous plans to attend, opting instead to send his footmen out to do his dirty-work. Two lone bigots briefly made their way to an adjacent side, where one of them sieg heiled on the Capitol steps. Despite the circumstances, the fascist thugs celebrate their poorly coordinated and executed "mobilization” of around 20 people as a victory, solely on the grounds that they injured more people than their opposition did.
Our victory did not come without consequence, and several have been hurt. So far we know of 6 comrades who have been injured to a degree that required hospitalization. Our next step is to provide support for those who sustained injuries during the shutdown, as well as legal support as needed. If you want to help the brave souls who put their well-being on the line today to keep neo-Nazis and white supremacists out of our streets, we ask that you make a donation to our support fund.

https://www.facebook.com/antifasacramento/

Another Facebook page to protest the rally -
https://www.facebook.com/events/1727963244125340/

[pinboy3niner]

59. Thanks. My impression from various accounts is that most of the casualties were anti-fascists.

Reportedly, some of the victims are in critical condition.

[NutmegYankee]

62. These two groups should have never come with arms reach.

The last thing we need is the left and right engaging in street battles. People may decide to lean toward security, and down the road to fascism we go.

[Ford_Prefect]

4. Right Wing Watch has the following on the TWP and its racist history.

http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/trump-wins-support-white-nationalist-youth-leader

Trump Wins Support of White Nationalist Youth Leader
SUBMITTED BY Peter Montgomery on Wednesday, 3/2/2016 6:35 pm

I recently wrote about the ways that Donald Trump’s presidential campaign has energized white nationalist activists and helped white supremacist groups and media with recruiting and fundraising. One of the people quoted in my Huffington Post story is 24-year-old white nationalist activist Matthew Heimbach.

Heimbach first made waves when he founded the White Student Union at Towson University and he is now a leader of the Traditionalist Worker Party. An Al Jazeera profile of Heimbach last year was titled “The Little Führer.”

Now Heimbach has turned up in another story that exemplifies why so many people are afraid of the forces being unleashed by the bigotry and bullying of Trump’s campaign.

“White supremacists hurled racist and sexist slurs Tuesday afternoon as they pushed a black protester out of a Donald Trump rally in Kentucky,” reports Raw Story. Video shows Trump supporters violently shoving a black protester, including a screaming man wearing a “Make America Great Again” hat.

In the New York Daily News, Shaun King reported that the man seen shoving and cursing at the Louisville rally appeared to be Heimbach. For him and others wearing the same Traditionalist Worker Party t-shirts, writes King, “a Trump rally is a white power rally.”

[Aerows]

6. There has got to be a better way

than beating each other up on the street.

Abhorrent behavior isn't solved by abhorrent behavior.

[Aerows]

5. Has everybody lost their damn minds?

Thanks for the coverage RE. Wow. Pure lunacy.

[Ford_Prefect]

11. Ask the Kochs about that. They paid for it all, it seems.

[Gabi Hayes]

14. I just spent 20 minutes or so googling variations of koch/trad workers/trump

and couldn't find anything

please give a link

thanks

we know those two are the kings of astroturf, so it doesn't surprise me

[Ford_Prefect]

30. You won't find a link because the Kochs have a network that does for them.

For more than 20 years they have funded this kind of group by using cut-outs. They have funded parts of the Militia movement as well. They don't do it directly. They help "like minded' people network and make funds and certain kinds of situations available to forward the activities of groups like this one.

They have a very large and well organized outfit that does nothing but coordinate and plant ideas among some of the people in these groups and which helps them along their merry ways. They do it to promote Kaos and hatred. I suspect that their reasoning is not only to promote their personal contempt for anyone not of their twisted faith, but also as part of a larger plan to interfere with Federal authority by any means they can- so to disable it at many levels and by distracting methods so their own goals will remain hidden

The groups they do employ for this are no doubt hidden as marketing research, advertising or some other "professional" outfit. They no doubt are hidden among the many agencies and services billing the Koch Businesses - much as the Tobacco Industry has also done to disguise their activities and influence.

It is possible and likely they are much more insidious but I have no proof of that, merely what would make sense if their goals are as people like Jane Meyer suggest.

(author of DARK MONEY http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/24/books/review/dark-money-by-jane-mayer.html )

[Meldread]

12. Here is what appears to have happened...

A group of neo-Nazi's were holding a public recruitment rally. A left wing militant group called BAM (By Any Means), a group that advocates for immigrants, organized a number of different groups to come out and help disrupt their rally. The goal was to physically disrupt it and drive them off. This obviously led to a physical confrontation between the two groups, and the Nazi's stabbed five of BAM's coalition people. However, due to superior numbers the BAM coalition was able to drive off the Nazi's, and so they are declaring victory.

BAM is arguing that they did not engage in violence, but rather it was an act of self-defense. They declare it an act of self-defense because obviously, the Nazi's were recruiting to attack people like them. They got support from a number of different coalitions of minority groups and leftists.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

15. So BAM was in the wrong

Free speech is just that - free speech.

[Meldread]

19. I am not going to attack anyone who attacks my enemies.

That being said, while I share their goal and motivation, I disagree with their political tactics. Nothing makes me smile more than a Nazi being punched in the face, but at the same time this is a political war. It is bad politics to attack them, because it makes BAM the center of the story, and everyone is going to debate whether or not they were in the right. Instead, they could have used nonviolent means of shutting them down--loud music, megaphones to make it impossible for them to be heard, human rings around their demonstration with things that make it impossible for the Nazi's to be seen, etc. These tactics would have also had the desired effect which would be to make their recruitment rally a bust, and would have kept the story focused on how disgusting Nazi's are and how they are not welcome. It would have made BAM and their tactics seem heroic, and no one would question them.

So, politically speaking, they were stupid. Even if they had the right motivation.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

21. You're not a believer if free speech

Got it.

[Meldread]

31. Where did I say I didn't believe in free speech?

Unless your definition of free speech is that they should be able to speak unchallenged.

Let me ask you this: What should we do when the WBC comes to protest the funerals of gay people? Should we all sit silently on the sidelines and let them spew their hate? Are people wrong to find ways to drown out their hateful and bigoted chanting and shouts, or to find ways to block their signs from view by standing in front of them so that mourners can go to the funeral and mourn with some degree of peace? Or is that too much of an abridgment of free speech for you?

[SickOfTheOnePct]

32. Blocking the view or sound is one thing

Trying to stop them from speaking/protesting at all, as BAM did today, is quite another.

[Meldread]

35. ...and where did I advocate that?

You declared that I am an enemy of Free Speech. You clearly do not have an objection to the tactics that I outlined. I denounced BAM's tactics as stupid and counterproductive to the cause, and then outlined an alternative set of tactics that you seem to deem acceptable. Yet, somehow you still labeled me an enemy of free speech. Explain yourself.

[liberalmuse]

29. I think there is a difference...

between free speech and hate speech.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

33. Not in the United States

Hate speech is permitted free speech.

[Scootaloo]

38. I didn't see congress passing a law to forbid it.

[Android3.14]

60. From the American Bar Association

www.americanbar.org/groups/public.../debate_hate.html

"In two recent hate crime cases, the U.S. Supreme Court concluded that acts, but not speech, may be regulated by law."

[Lordquinton]

36. BAM is not the government

this is not a first amendment issue.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

76. You're right

it's a free speech issue - BAM had no right to try to stop the Nazis from speaking, especially by using physical means.

[Lordquinton]

87. BAM had every right to disrupt the actual Nazis platform

That it turned violent was tragic and probably more the Nazis fault from secondary reports.

Free speech cover the government censoring, not citizen groups.

[womanofthehills]

43. but this group is not just into free speech

their founder? member? however he is connected - Matthew Heimbach was videotaped shoving and screaming at a black women, inciting the crowd to shove her -promoting violence against her at a Trump rally and he posted that he was not sorry.

[tenderfoot]

71. "A left wing militant group called BAM" Oh??? And who are they and where did they come from?

Sounds like right wing shit stirring BULLSHIT!!!!

[SickOfTheOnePct]

16. Nice

Yvette Felarca, who said she was a member of the group By Any Means Necessary, told CNN she came out to let people know that racist and anti-immigrant viewpoints would not be tolerated.

"They're not welcome," she said of the TWP rally. "If they trip and fall in the process, good. We succeeded in shutting them down."

http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/26/us/brawl-at-california-rally/index.html

I guess Yvette Felarca is ignorant when it comes to the First Amendment.

[hunter]

24. Life is messy.

We're free to drive over the bridge, Nazis are free to jump off the bridge.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

28. I shouldn't be surprised

at the number of people on DU who oppose free speech, and yet, I always am.

[Lordquinton]

37. You need to brush up on the constitution.

The government protected free speech from both sides. Working as intended, that it turned violent is a shame, but glad someone stoop up to literal nazis.

[womanofthehills]

44. When people/groups see a member of this group on video abusing a black women

it might push their limits.

[leftynyc]

72. You're just another who

use phrases like free speech and first amendment like they're the same thing. They're not. This case has nothing to do with the first amendment as no government officials or offices were shutting them down.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

74. No group has a right to shut down another group's free speech

The police failed big time in this by not protecting the neo-Nazi's free speech from a group who believes the Nazis don't have a right to speak.

Anyone who favors one group shutting down the speech of another group is anti-free speech, regardless of which side of the political aisle they fall on.

[leftynyc]

78. And you don't see me

or anyone else claiming otherwise. YOU'RE the one who whined about the first amendment.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

79. Noting that a group

in this case, BAM, doesn't recognize the First Amendment right to free speech is hardly whining.

[leftynyc]

80. It is when you're completely WRONG

and you continue to make the same claim again. The government had NOTHING to do with this. How many times does this need to be pointed out to you?

[SickOfTheOnePct]

82. I never said the government was involved

However, if you (general you, not you personally), don't believe in free speech, then by definition, you don't believe in the First Amendment. It takes no government action/inaction for an individual or group to believe/not believe in something.

[leftynyc]

83. Sigh

Are you so busy defending yourself that you forget what you post?

#16
Yvette Felarca, who said she was a member of the group By Any Means Necessary, told CNN she came out to let people know that racist and anti-immigrant viewpoints would not be tolerated.

"They're not welcome," she said of the TWP rally. "If they trip and fall in the process, good. We succeeded in shutting them down."


http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/26/us/brawl-at-california-rally/index.html

I guess Yvette Felarca is ignorant when it comes to the First Amendment.



YOU'RE the one who claimed this was a first amendment issue. Free speech is another issue ENTIRELY. That you can't wrap your head around that is your problem alone. Most people here are both free speech and first amendment supporters - we also are quite aware of the difference between the two - unlike you seem to be.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

91. Sigh

Nope, I never claimed this was a First Amendment issue, I claimed, and I stand by that claim, that BAM doesn't believe in the First Amendment. Being against free speech, which BAM is, makes them against the First Amendment. It isn't rocket science.

Of course I realize they are two different things, but what you can't seem to wrap YOUR head around is that anyone who is against free speech is simultaneously against the First Amendment as well.

[IronLionZion]

89. hate speech

and incitement to violence (race war) is not protected by the 1st amendment and the groups involved are not the government.

Hate groups are terrorist organizations.

[womanofthehills]

46. It also appears that Nazis are free to abuse and shove black women at Trump rallys

[SickOfTheOnePct]

75. Of course they don't have that right

But that's unrelated to the incident yesterday. As abhorrent as their message is, the Nazis have the right to have a peaceful rally and speak.

[amandabeech]

49. In Chicago at that time, the charges against Jake and Elwood would have included

attempted murder in addition to the zillion others.

I saw the Chicago cops handle an Illinois Nazi rally in Federal Plaza in the summer of 1978. Their job was to keep the very large crowd of protesters from pulling the Nazis apart limb by limb. They let the Nazis speak for about 15 minutes before the cops told the Nazis that the police could no longer guarantee their safety. That was the cue for the Nazis to pack up and leave, pronto. Everyone knew the rules and abided by them.

It looks to me like the California cops could learn from others about how to handle this kind of thing so that no one gets hurt.

I love the Blues Brothers, by the way. I've probably watched it 100 times.

[pinboy3niner]

58. t looks like the CA cops weren't prepared for conflicts early, before the rally was to begin

They also did a poor job of keeping opposing groups separated and responding to violence when it erupted under their nose.

[amandabeech]

66. Perhaps they will be better prepared next time.

I suspect that there will be quite a bit of conflict this election season, and the police really have to improve their crowd control and separation.

[LeftyMom]

18. Why are you scare quoting Nazis?

[sufrommich]

22. The Clash of the Morons. nt

[romanic]

23. Sounds like two crazy ass fringe groups brawling in the street.

People are fucking crazy, that's all I got to say on this.

[LeftyMom]

25. You've posted since, but haven't answered my question: Why the quotes? They're Nazis.

It's not debatable.

[cheapdate]

26. No love for Nazis.

[Hoyt]

27. Same here.

[Scootaloo]

39. I support kicking the shit out of nazis

I know most DU'ers won't agree, and that's fine. But this is a sort of movement that can't really be fought by tolerance and counter-argument. You'd have better luck flying to Raqqa and convincing ISIS to convert to Mormonism.

[socialist_n_TN]

42. Yeah, I agree. These fucks will NOT be stopped with polite argument...........

They're bigots and bullies who wouldn't hesitate to put most of us posting in this thread into the gas chamber. The whole modus operandi of fascists is intimidation and street violence and that's where they have to be fought. And since a LOT of cops are members or sympathizers, they can't be relied on to "help". Anybody who thinks differently as to how they have to be faced is naïve. Terminally naïve if they get power.

[backscatter712]

69. Yep, anyone today that openly thinks the Swastika is cool is beyond persuasive reach.

I'm all for keeping those fuckers down. With baseball bats if necessary. With stronger weapons if bats aren't enough.

[mwrguy]

81. This. Curb-stomp the white supremacists

Fly a swastika, get beat.

[gwheezie]

40. The government did not restrict the Nazis from speaking

I do not condone violence but the nazi fanatics have made several public statements they would do harm to our fellow citizens. If people want to protest their bullshit, I won't stop anyone. If you're going to threaten groups of people, expect opposition. The government had nothing to do with this. Don't even try to bring up the 1st amendment, no one has to stfu when they hear hate speech.

[modem77]

63. "Beat the fascist!" Now there is some irony.

Two groups of hate filled idiots fighting.

[womanofthehills]

64. Actually, Donald Trump seems to be empowering the fascist group

[tenderfoot]

70. It warms my heart that there are so many looking out for nazis.

Those damned intolerant Liberals raining on the racist/homophobic/anti-semetic parade again.

Christ, you can't even hate Jews in peace anymore!

[SickOfTheOnePct]

77. It isn't about looking out for Nazis

it's about looking out for everyone's right to free speech, no matter how abhorrent the message.

[Scootaloo]

85. Congress has passed no law forbidding Nazi rallies

[SickOfTheOnePct]

86. Who said they did? n/t

[Scootaloo]

90. Well, you keep talking about the first amendment

[SickOfTheOnePct]

92. I keep saying that BAM doesn't believe in the First Amendment

which is obviously true, since you can't be against free speech and still believe in the First Amendment.

I've never said that the Nazis' First Amendment rights were violated.

[Straw Man]

73. To those who advocate street-fighting the fascists ...

... I suggest going armed, because the violence will escalate. That's part of their aim: to provoke attacks so that they can unleash retaliatory violence under the umbrella of self-defense.

And if you're advocating it on here, I hope you plan to take to the streets yourself, because otherwise you're a hypocrite who is going to get other people hurt or killed while you hunker down at your keyboards, cheering on the mayhem from the safety of your living room.

[Scootaloo]

84. Some of us already have

And I'm not going to say it was smart, or a good idea. Probably the opposite, at least from a self-preservation point of view. You have to be a special kind of stupid to go out looking for a fight with people who want a fight. You're going ot get hurt. You might get hurt badly. I've got scars from it.

You ain't got to fight. But you do have to confront. You have to let them know that if there is a fight, you have every intention and the ability to win. Because these aren't people who respond to good arguments or pleas for consideration. They absolutely believe that might makes right, and if you're going to prevail, you need to play their way.

I guess you COULD just keep your head down and let a bunch of skinheaded swastika-tattooed fucks run your neighborhood. I'm sure they're just showing off, right? All swagger no step? Me and my friends decided not to risk it. We took our hits, but those fucking slapheads took theirs too and fucked off.

[IronLionZion]

88. British knife surrender bin