Please Stop Saying You Want to Go to Cuba Before It’s Ruined

[Nye Bevan]

Here’s a terse explanation of why: a doctor, a lawyer, or another similar profession that is considered to be high-earning everywhere else in the world will make about twenty to thirty dollars per month in Cuba. Yet shampoo at the store still costs three dollars. This is because everything is supposed to be rationed out to you, but the reality is that they’re always out of most things, and your designated ration is always meager. And if you live off the land? Well, if you’re a farmer and you’ve raised a cow, and you’re starving, and your family is also starving, and you decide to kill that cow and eat it? You’ll be put in jail for life. Because it’s not “your” cow, it’s everyone’s cow. That’s good ol’ Communism in practice.

Now, knowing this, picture me at any dinner party or Hollywood event or drugstore or press interview or pretty much any situation where someone who considers themselves “cultured” finds out I’m Cuban. I prepare myself for the seemingly unavoidable “Ooh, Cuuuuuba”—as if the country itself were somehow a sexy woman or delicious food—followed by the inevitable, “I have to go there before it’s ruined!” I try to be polite, because I am aware that, oftentimes, people who think they are very thoughtful are the least thoughtful. So I ask, “What do you mean by ruined?” and they always say, “You know, it’s so cool looking! It’s stuck in time! They have all the old cars and stuff… Everything’s gonna change soon!”

So depending on the situation (and how dumb I would like to make that person feel), I will say some version of this: “What exactly do you think will ruin Cuba? Running water? Available food? Freedom of speech? Uncontrolled media and Internet? Access to proper healthcare? You want to go to Cuba before the buildings get repaired? Before people can actually live off their wages? Or before the oppressive Communist regime is someday overthrown? Make sure you hurry and go observe these human beings in the time bubble that was created especially for you so that you could post a #nofilter photo of it on Instagram.”

Look, part of me gets it. I appreciate good art direction just as much as anyone else, and I see that Cuba looks like a beautifully destroyed photo op. But it’s not your photo op. The old cars are not kitschy; they are not a choice. It’s all they have. The old buildings are not preserved; their balconies are falling and killing people all the time. The very, very young girls prostituting themselves are not doing it because they can’t get enough of old Canadian men, but because it pays more than being a doctor does. Hospitals for regular Cuban citizens are not what Michael Moore showed you in Sicko. (That was a Communist hospital for members of the Party and for tourists, and I, for one, think Moore fell for their North Korea–like propaganda show pretty hard.) There are no janitors in the hospitals because it pays more money to steal janitorial supplies and sell them on the street than it does to actually have a job there. Therefore, the halls and rooms are covered in blood, urine, and feces, and you need to bring your own sheets, blankets, pillows, towels, and mattresses when you are admitted. Doctors have to reuse needles on patients. My mom’s aunt had a stroke and the doctor’s course of treatment was to “put her feet up and let the blood rush back to her head.” That was it. And this is in Havana, the big city. I can’t be sure, but I’d imagine things there are a lot better than they are in more remote parts of the country.

http://floodmagazine.com/34721/please-stop-saying-you-want-to-go-to-cuba-before-its-ruined/

Great article by an actual Cuban. "See it before it's ruined" has become such a cliché.

[Ken Burch]

1. Everything beautiful and authentic will be destroyed if market values comes in.

You can't have poetry and cultural truth AND McDonald's.

What they need is democracy, not capitalism.

Nothing magical will exist in the kind of Cuba this sort of exile wants.

Yes, people might have more things...but that isn't anything.

[Nye Bevan]

2. There are McDonalds in Paris and Venice.

I think your criterion is a little bit limiting.

[Ken Burch]

5. If the values switch from collective solidarity to nothing but individual self-interest

(which is what has to happen if market values are introduced), any notion of caring about other people will vanish(as it has in this country).

Cuba needs less repression (which is most likely to occur if the US goes to formal normalization), but capitalism and humane values can't co-exist there.

Once you commodify, the poetry and soul of the nation dies. That is why no Eastern European society other than the Czech Republic has any remaining humane social values. It's why Poland and Hungary will be nothing but right-wing and anti-democratic for the rest of eternity now.

So democracy, yes...capitalism no.

[uhnope]

54. reads like a dogma or a manifesto

[DetlefK]

66. You should read more. There is a whole economic spectrum between capitalism and communism.

It's not "either or".

For example: Germany's economy was designed as a compromise between capitalism and socialism. "Social Market-Economy"
Germany has capitalism, but with strong regulations and backed up by strong social programs.
Do you want to know how strong workers' unions are in Germany? Up until a few years ago, Germany had no minimum-wage, because the unions kept the wages so high that setting a mandatory minimum-wage didn't even come to peoples' minds.

[Ken Burch]

107. I'm aware of that, but the international financial community

no longer allows any European nation to carry out economic and spending policies that are not based on massive privatization, the slashing of social spending, and the destruction of any protections for workers' rights and the environment.

If West Germany was being created today, it wouldn't be allowed to set up a social welfare state.

[DetlefK]

116. "The international financial community"

And what is this community going to do? Europe isn't the US, you know. Unlike the US, european countries have actual laws limiting lobbying, outlawing bribery, regulating campaign-donations...

And since somebody (IIRC Greenpeace Netherlands?) leaked the TTIP, any politician supporting it can kiss his reelection good-bye.

[AntiBank]

91. "Poland and Hungary will be nothing but right-wing and anti-democratic for the rest of eternity"

Damn, I am pretty fucking nihilistic but even I wont quite go that far.

I know a tonne of Poles and Hungarians in real life who would disagree as well.

[Ken Burch]

98. I salute all anti-fascist Poles and Hungarians...

...but there is no reason to believe there's any chance of stopping those countries from returning to the worst of 1930's Catholic-nationalist(i.e., fascist)politics.

There is no progressive party, or even moderate party with any significant popular support in Poland.

Not sure there's anyone who has a real chance of stopping Fidesz, either.

And it was austerity imposed by the Western financial community and the EU that caused this. If those countries had been allowed to at least have a social democratic "soft landing", rather than shock therapy, this would not be happening.

[AntiBank]

99. I agree on the EU forced austerity. Same thing in Greece with Golden Dawn.

[Ken Burch]

100. Absolutely. n/t.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

3. Is this a serious post? I honestly can't tell.

[Ken Burch]

6. If Cuba goes full-on capitalist, no humane social values can be preserved there.

And a market values Cuba would never be a place where the principles of anarchism would be allowed to spread.

No creative community would survive.

I'm saying Cuba needs an end to repression but not capitalism.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

75. Prostitution, starvation and hospitals covered in human waste are humane social values?

[malaise]

77. WTF??????????????????

[Nuclear Unicorn]

80. I have no idea what it is you presume to be incredulous over.

[Aerows]

114. This thread is completely off the rails.

I don't know what to say, except echo your sentiments:

[malaise]

122. And then some

Ah well!

[Aerows]

123. It's just

WRONG. I can't state it any plainer.

[malaise]

125. Sometimes ignorance is bliss

Folks might examine the data that matters.

[Ken Burch]

101. You're taking the word of a right-wing exile on that.

Her idea of a better healthcare system is one where everyone has to pay individually out of pocket again, like here. There is nothing anywhere in her views that could ever lead to anything YOU would support.

[Human101948]

106. Cuba health care is superior to the USA in most ways...

The US ranks 3rd in health care expenditures, spending 17.9% of its GDP on health (2011). In contrast, Cuba only spent 10% of its GDP, putting it on par with Norway, Sweden, the United Kingdom, and Canada.

What does the US gain for its vastly greater financial investment? Not so much, it seems. Infant mortality is lower in Cuba and the under 5 year old mortality rate is quite low. Life expectancy is almost identical in the two countries. This is achieved despite huge disparities in wealth. (The only area where mortality is significantly higher in Cuba is that of maternal mortality).

This article is right wing bullshit. Certainly there are areas where Cuba needs much improvement but it also has many advantages that make it superior to the USA.

[mahatmakanejeeves]

87. "And a market values Cuba would never be a place where ... anarchism would be allowed to spread."

I'll just scratch it off my list, then.

[Ken Burch]

102. That was in response to Nuclear Unicorn, whose avatar is the anarchist symbol.

It wasn't random.

[SoLeftIAmRight]

25. bye

Species Name Scientific Name Group Range
1. Acacia daemon Acacia daemon Plants Cuba
2. Acacia bucheri Acacia bucheri Plants Cuba
3. Acacia belairioides Acacia belairioides Plants Cuba
4. Acacia zapatensis Acacia zapatensis Plants Cuba
5. Acacia roigii Acacia roigii Plants Cuba
6. Acropora Coral Acropora palmata Corals, Jellyfish, and Sea Anemones Central America, Gulf of Mexico, North America (United States Territory)
7. Acropora Coral Acropora cervicornis Corals, Jellyfish, and Sea Anemones Central America, Gulf of Mexico, North America (United States Territory)
8. Albizia berteriana Albizia berteriana Plants Cuba, Dominican Republic, Haiti, Jamaica
9. Allophylus roigii Allophylus roigii Plants Cuba
10. American Crocodile Crocodylus acutus Reptiles Caribbean, Central and South America, Florida, Mexico
11. American Mahogany Swietenia mahagoni Plants Central and South America, Florida
12. Amyris polymorpha Amyris polymorpha Plants Cuba
13. Annona ekmanii Annona ekmanii Plants Cuba
14. Annona cristalensis Annona cristalensis Plants Cuba
15. Antirhea radiata Antirhea radiata Plants Cuba, Dominican Republic, Haiti
16. Ateleia salicifolia Ateleia salicifolia Plants Cuba
17. Ateleia gummifera Ateleia gummifera Plants Cuba
18. Atkinsia cubensis Atkinsia cubensis Plants Cuba
19. Bahama Swallow Tachycineta cyaneoviridis Birds Bahamas, Cuba, Florida
20. Banara wilsonii Banara wilsonii Plants Cuba
21. Baracoa Dwarf Frog Eleutherodactylus orientalis Amphibians Cuba
22. Barrel Palm Colpothrinax wrightii Plants Cuba
23. Basking Shark Cetorhinus maximus Fishes Africa, Asia, Australia, Central America, Europe, Middle East, North America (including United States), South America
24. Bee Hummingbird Mellisuga helenae Birds Bahamas, Cuba
25. Belairia parvifolia Belairia parvifolia Plants Cuba
26. Bicknell's Thrush Catharus bicknelli Birds Canada, Connecticut, Cuba, Delaware, Dominican Republic, Georgia, Haiti, Jamaica, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New York, North Carolina, Pennsylvania, Puerto Rico, Rhode Island, South Carolina, Vermont, Virginia
27. Bigeye Tuna Thunnus obesus Fishes Africa, American Samoa, Asia, Australia, Central America, Europe, Middle East, North America - Including United States (Hawaii), Oceanic, South America
28. Bitterwood Picrasma excelsa Plants Cuba, Dominican Republic, Haiti, Jamaica, Puerto Rico, Saint Vincent and the Grenadines, Venezuela
29. Black Grouper Epinephelus nigritus Fishes Central and South America, Mexico, United States
30. Black Rail Laterallus jamaicensis Birds Central America, North America (including United States), South America
31. Black Rockfish Mycteroperca bonaci Fishes Central America, North America (including United States), Oceanic, South America
32. Black-capped Petrel Pterodroma hasitata Birds Central America, Europe, North America (United States Territory), Oceanic, South America
33. Black-tailed Hutia Mesocapromys melanurus Mammals Cuba
34. Blue-and-orange Threadtail Microneura caligata Insects Cuba
35. Blue-headed Quail-dove Starnoenas cyanocephala Birds Cuba
36. Boca de Yumuri Frog Eleutherodactylus bartonsmithi Amphibians Cuba
37. Borhidi's Guano Palm Coccothrinax borhidiana Plants Cuba
38. Breasts-of-Julie Frog Eleutherodactylus tetajulia Amphibians Cuba
39. Brown Pelican Pelecanus occidentalis Birds Coastal Central and South America, USA (Carolinas to Texas, California, Oregon, Washington), West Indies
40. Bucida ophiticola Bucida ophiticola Plants Cuba
41. Buff-breasted Sandpiper Tryngites subruficollis Birds Africa, Australia, Central America, Europe, Middle East, North America (including United States Territory), Oceanic, South America
42. Bully Tree Sideroxylon angustum Plants Cuba
43. Bully Tree Sideroxylon acunae Plants Cuba
44. Bully Tree Sideroxylon jubilla Plants Cuba
45. Bully Tree Sideroxylon confertum Plants Cuba
46. Bunchosia linearifolia Bunchosia linearifolia Plants Cuba
47. Cabo Cruz Frog Eleutherodactylus tonyi Amphibians Cuba
48. Cabrera's Hutia Capromys angelcabrerai Mammals Cuba
49. Calycolpus excisus Calycolpus excisus Plants Cuba
50. Cameraria microphylla Cameraria microphylla Plants Cuba
51. Canasi Frog Eleutherodactylus blairhedgesi Amphibians Cuba
52. Cape Shark Squalus acanthias Fishes Africa, Asia, Australia, Central America, Europe, Middle East, North America (including United States), South America
53. Caribbean Coot Fulica caribaea Birds Central America, North America (United States Territory), South America
54. Caribbean Reef Shark Carcharhinus perezi Fishes Central America, North America (including United States), Oceanic, South America
55. Carpodiptera ophiticola Carpodiptera ophiticola Plants Cuba
56. Carpodiptera mirabilis Carpodiptera mirabilis Plants Cuba
57. Casearia crassinervis Casearia crassinervis Plants Cuba
58. Catalpa brevipes Catalpa brevipes Plants Cuba, Dominican Republic, Haiti
59. Cayman Islands Ground Iguana Cyclura nubila Reptiles Caymans, Cuba, Puerto Rico
60. Cerulean Warbler Dendroica cerulea Birds Bahamas, Belize, Bolivia, Brazil, Canada, Colombia, Costa Rica, Cuba, Ecuador, Guatemala, Honduras, Jamaica, Mexico, Netherlands Antilles, Panama, Peru, United States, Venezuela
61. Chamaecrista bucherae Chamaecrista bucherae Plants Cuba
62. Chapman's Prehensile Tailed Hutia Mysateles gundlachi Mammals Cuba
63. Chrysophyllum claraense Chrysophyllum claraense Plants Cuba
64. Cigar-box Wood Cedrela odorata Plants Central America, North America, South America
65. Cinnamodendron cubense Cinnamodendron cubense Plants Cuba
66. Cinnamomum parviflorum Cinnamomum parviflorum Plants Cuba, Dominican Republic, Haiti
67. Citharexylum ternatum Citharexylum ternatum Plants Cuba
68. Clerodendrum denticulatum Clerodendrum denticulatum Plants Cuba
69. Clerodendrum calcicola Clerodendrum calcicola Plants Cuba
70. Cliff Robber Frog Eleutherodactylus varians Amphibians Cuba
71. Coccoloba retirensis Coccoloba retirensis Plants Cuba
72. Coccoloba coriacea Coccoloba coriacea Plants Cuba
73. Coccothrinax pauciramosa Coccothrinax pauciramosa Plants Cuba
74. Commoner Lignum Vitae Guaiacum officinale Plants Central and South America, Puerto Rico, Thailand, Virgin Islands (British and US)
75. Copernicia brittonorum Copernicia brittonorum Plants Cuba
76. Copernicia gigas Copernicia gigas Plants Cuba
77. Cordia valenzuelana Cordia valenzuelana Plants Central America
78. Cowfish Rhinoptera bonasus Fishes Belize, Brazil, Colombia, Costa Rica, Cuba, Florida, French Guiana, Guatemala, Guyana, Honduras, Mexico, Nicaragua, Panama, Suriname, Trinidad and Tobago, Venezuela
79. Crossband Rockfish Mycteroperca interstitialis Fishes Central America, North America (including United States), Oceanic, South America
80. Cuban Black Hawk Buteogallus gundlachii Birds Cuba
81. Cuban Bluet Enallagma truncatum Insects Cuba
82. Cuban Crocodile Crocodylus rhombifer Reptiles Cuba
83. Cuban Evening Bat Nycticeius cubanus Mammals Cuba
84. Cuban Greater Funnel-eared Bat Natalus primus Mammals Cuba
85. Cuban High-crested Toad Peltophryne gundlachi Amphibians Cuba
86. Cuban Hypolestes Hypolestes trinitatis Insects Cuba
87. Cuban Kite Chondrohierax wilsonii Birds Cuba
88. Cuban Lesser Funnel-eared Bat Chilonatalus micropus Mammals Colombia, Cuba, Dominican Republic, Haiti, Jamaica
89. Cuban Long-nosed Toad Peltophryne longinasus Amphibians Cuba
90. Cuban Mangosteen Rheedia aristata Plants Cuba
91. Cuban Parakeet Aratinga euops Birds Cuba
92. Cuban Parrot Amazona leucocephala Birds West Indies (Cuba, Bahamas, Caymans)
93. Cuban Pine Toad Peltophryne cataulaciceps Amphibians Cuba
94. Cuban Red-rumped Frog Eleutherodactylus acmonis Amphibians Cuba
95. Cuban Small-eared Toad Peltophryne empusa Amphibians Cuba
96. Cuban Solenodon Solenodon cubanus Mammals Cuba
97. Cuban Solitaire Myadestes elisabeth Birds Cuba
98. Cuban Sparrow Torreornis inexpectata Birds Cuba
99. Cuban Spotted Toad Peltophryne taladai Amphibians Cuba
100. Cuban Yellow Bat Lasiurus insularis Mammals Cuba
101. Cubera Snapper Lutjanus cyanopterus Fishes Central America, North America (including United States), South America
102. Cynometra cubensis Cynometra cubensis Plants Cuba
103. Daphnopsis calcicola Daphnopsis calcicola Plants Cuba
104. Devil Fish Manta birostris Fishes Africa, Asia, Australia, Central America, Europe, Hawaii, Middle East, North America, Oceanic, South America
105. Doerpfeldia cubensis Doerpfeldia cubensis Plants Cuba
106. Donkey Fish Dermatolepis inermis Fishes Central and South America, North America (including United States), Oceanic
107. Drepanolejeunea senticosa Drepanolejeunea senticosa Plants Cuba
108. Dwarf Grass Frog Eleutherodactylus adelus Amphibians Cuba
109. Dwarf Hutia Capromys nana Mammals Cuba
110. Eileen's Robber Frog Eleutherodactylus eileenae Amphibians Cuba
111. Ekmanianthe longiflora Ekmanianthe longiflora Plants Cuba, Dominican Republic, Haiti
112. Elliptical Star Coral Dichocoenia stokesii Corals, Jellyfish, and Sea Anemones Central America, Europe, North America (including United States), Oceanic, South America
113. Erythrina elenae Erythrina elenae Plants Cuba
114. Erythroxylum echinodendron Erythroxylum echinodendron Plants Cuba
115. Estrada's Robber Frog Eleutherodactylus melacara Amphibians Cuba
116. Euchorium cubense Euchorium cubense Plants Cuba
117. Eugenia excisa Eugenia excisa Plants Cuba
118. Eugenia bayatensis Eugenia bayatensis Plants Cuba
119. Eugenia acutissima Eugenia acutissima Plants Cuba
120. Eugenia acunai Eugenia acunai Plants Cuba
121. Eugenia aceitillo Eugenia aceitillo Plants Cuba
122. Fernandina's Flicker Colaptes fernandinae Birds Cuba
123. Fig Tree Ficus meizonochlamys Plants Cuba
124. Florentino's Cuban Toad Peltophryne florentinoi Amphibians Cuba
125. Garrido's Hutia Mysateles garridoi Mammals Cuba
126. Gaussia spirituana Gaussia spirituana Plants Cuba
127. Giant Kingbird Tyrannus cubensis Birds Cuba
128. Golden-winged Warbler Vermivora chrysoptera Birds Central America, Europe, North America (including United States), Oceanic, South America
129. Goliath Grouper Epinephelus itajara Fishes Africa, Central and South America, Mexico, United States (Florida, Minor Outlying Islands)
130. Gordonia curtyana Gordonia curtyana Plants Cuba
131. Gray Nurse Shark Carcharias taurus Fishes Africa, Asia, Australia, Central America, Europe, Middle East, North America (United States Territory), Oceanic, South America
132. Gray-headed Quail-dove Geotrygon caniceps Birds Cuba, Dominican Republic
133. Great White Shark Carcharodon carcharias Fishes Africa, Asia, Australia, Central America, Europe, Middle East, North America (including United States and Hawaii), Oceanic, South America
134. Grey's Robber Frog Eleutherodactylus greyi Amphibians Cuba
135. Guanahacabibes Robber Frog Eleutherodactylus guanahacabibes Amphibians Cuba
136. Guaniguanic Yellow-mottled Frog Eleutherodactylus goini Amphibians Cuba
137. Guantanamo Robber Frog Eleutherodactylus guantanamera Amphibians Cuba
138. Guayacan Blanco Behaimia cubensis Plants Cuba
139. Gulper Shark Centrophorus granulosus Fishes Africa, Asia, Central America, Europe, Middle East, North America (including United States and Hawaii), South America
140. Gundlach's Hawk Accipiter gundlachi Birds Cuba
141. Gundlach's Robber Frog Eleutherodactylus gundlachi Amphibians Cuba
142. Gyminda orbicularis Gyminda orbicularis Plants Cuba
143. Gymnanthes glandulosa Gymnanthes glandulosa Plants Cuba, Jamaica
144. Habana Robber Frog Eleutherodactylus limbatus Amphibians Cuba
145. Hammerhead Shark Sphyrna mokarran Fishes Africa, Asia, Australia, Central and South America, Middle East, Oceanic, United States
146. Harpalyce maisiana Harpalyce maisiana Plants Cuba
147. Helietta glaucescens Helietta glaucescens Plants Cuba
148. Henriettea granularis Henriettea granularis Plants Cuba
149. Henriettea squamata Henriettea squamata Plants Cuba
150. Henriettea punctata Henriettea punctata Plants Cuba
151. Hernandia cubensis Hernandia cubensis Plants Cuba
152. Hieronima crassistipula Hieronima crassistipula Plants Cuba
153. Hildegardia cubensis Hildegardia cubensis Plants Cuba
154. Hogfish Lachnolaimus maximus Fishes Central America, North America (including United States), Oceanic, South America
155. Holywood Lignum Vitae Guaiacum sanctum Plants Central and South America, Florida, Mexico, Puerto Rico
156. Hook-billed Kite Chondrohierax uncinatus Birds West Indies (Cuba and Grenada)
157. Huertea cubensis Huertea cubensis Plants Cuba, Dominican Republic, Haiti
158. Hymenaea torrei Hymenaea torrei Plants Cuba
159. Ivory-billed Woodpecker Campephilus principalis Birds Cuba, USA (southcentral and southeastern)
160. Jacaranda arborea Jacaranda arborea Plants Cuba
161. Juglans insularis Juglans insularis Plants Cuba
162. Jumagua Palm Thrinax ekmaniana Plants Cuba
163. Juniper Juniperus saxicola Plants Cuba
164. Juniper Juniperus barbadensis Plants Bahamas, Cuba, Jamaica, West Indies (St. Lucia)
165. Klinikowski's Robber Frog Eleutherodactylus klinikowskii Amphibians Cuba
166. Krokia pilotoana Krokia pilotoana Plants Cuba
167. La Maya Robber Frog Eleutherodactylus ionthus Amphibians Cuba
168. Lamarck's Sheet Coral Agaricia lamarcki Corals, Jellyfish, and Sea Anemones Central and South America, Europe, North America (including United States)
169. Large Ivory Coral Oculina varicosa Corals, Jellyfish, and Sea Anemones Central America, North America (including United States), Oceanic, South America
170. Large-eared Hutia Capromys auritus Mammals Cuba
171. Least Tern Sterna antillarum Birds Bahamas, Central America (winters), Greater and Lesser Antilles, Mexico, Northern South America, USA (California, including the Miss. R. Basin), Atlantic Gulf Coasts
172. Leber's Robber Frog Eleutherodactylus leberi Amphibians Cuba
173. Licaria cubensis Licaria cubensis Plants Cuba
174. Lidflower Calyptranthes rostrata Plants Cuba
175. Lidflower Calyptranthes pozasiana Plants Cuba
176. Lidflower Calyptranthes polyneura Plants Cuba
177. Lidflower Calyptranthes flavo-viridis Plants Cuba
178. Lidflower Calyptranthes arenicola Plants Cuba
179. Lily Robber Frog Eleutherodactylus mariposa Amphibians Cuba
180. Lined Seahorse Hippocampus erectus Fishes Central America, North America (including United States), Oceanic, South America
181. Little Earth Hutia Capromys sanfelipensis Mammals Cuba
182. Little Goblin Bat Mormopterus minutus Mammals Cuba
183. Longfin Mako Isurus paucus Fishes Africa, Asia, Australia, Central America, Europe, North America (including United States and Hawaii), Oceanic, South America
184. Lucifuga teresinarum Lucifuga teresinarum Fishes Cuba
185. Lucifuga subterranea Lucifuga subterranea Fishes Cuba
186. Lucifuga simile Lucifuga simile Fishes Cuba
187. Lunania elongata Lunania elongata Plants Cuba
188. Lunania dodecandra Lunania dodecandra Plants Cuba
189. Lunania cubensis Lunania cubensis Plants Cuba
190. Lyonia maestrensis Lyonia maestrensis Plants Cuba
191. Lyonia elliptica Lyonia elliptica Plants Cuba
192. Magnolia Magnolia minor Plants Cuba
193. Maisi Frog Eleutherodactylus bresslerae Amphibians Cuba
194. Manilkara Tree Manilkara valenzuelana Plants Cuba, Dominican Republic, Haiti
195. Manilkara Tree Manilkara mayarensis Plants Cuba
196. Mappia racemosa Mappia racemosa Plants Cuba, Dominican Republic, Guatemala, Haiti, Jamaica, Panama, Puerto Rico
197. Mastigodiaptomus purpureus Mastigodiaptomus purpureus Crustaceans Cuba, Haiti
198. Megalopanax rex Megalopanax rex Plants Cuba
199. Mexican Agouti Dasyprocta mexicana Mammals Cuba, Mexico
200. Miconia perelegans Miconia perelegans Plants Cuba
201. Microcycas calocoma Microcycas calocoma Plants Cuba
202. Micropholis polita Micropholis polita Plants Cuba
203. Milkwood Tabernaemontana apoda Plants Cuba
204. Miniature Robber Frog Eleutherodactylus dimidiatus Amphibians Cuba
205. Miranda Robber Frog Eleutherodactylus pezopetrus Amphibians Cuba
206. Montastraea franksi Montastraea franksi Corals, Jellyfish, and Sea Anemones Central America, North America (including United States Territory), Oceanic, South America
207. Montastraea faveolata Montastraea faveolata Corals, Jellyfish, and Sea Anemones Central America, North America (including United States Territory), South America
208. Montastraea annularis Montastraea annularis Corals, Jellyfish, and Sea Anemones Central America, North America (including United States Territory), South America
209. Monte Iberia Dwarf Frog Eleutherodactylus iberia Amphibians Cuba
210. Mozartia manacalensis Mozartia manacalensis Plants Cuba
211. Mozartia maestrensis Mozartia maestrensis Plants Cuba
212. Mozartia emarginata Mozartia emarginata Plants Cuba
213. Mutton Snapper Lutjanus analis Fishes Central America, North America (including United States), Oceanic, South America
214. Myrtus claraensis Myrtus claraensis Plants Cuba
215. Nassau Grouper Epinephelus striatus Fishes Central and South America, United States (Florida, Minor Outlying Islands)
216. Nectandra minima Nectandra minima Plants Cuba
217. Neea ekmanii Neea ekmanii Plants Cuba
218. Night Shark Carcharhinus signatus Fishes Africa, Central America, North America (United States), South America
219. Nowellia wrightii Nowellia wrightii Plants Cuba
220. Oceanic Whitetip Shark Carcharhinus longimanus Fishes Africa, American Samoa, Asia, Australia, Central America, Europe, Middle East, North America (including United States and Hawaii), Oceanic, South America
221. Orange Long-nosed Frog Eleutherodactylus jaumei Amphibians Cuba
222. Oriente Coastal Frog Eleutherodactylus etheridgei Amphibians Cuba
223. Oriente Greenish-yellow Frog Eleutherodactylus principalis Amphibians Cuba
224. Oriente Mottled Frog Eleutherodactylus simulans Amphibians Cuba
225. Painted Bunting Passerina ciris Birds Central America, North America (including United States)
226. Palm Crow Corvus palmarum Birds Cuba, Dominican Republic, Haiti
227. Pfeiffer's Red Bat Lasiurus pfeifferi Mammals Cuba
228. Pico Turquino Robber Frog Eleutherodactylus intermedius Amphibians Cuba
229. Pillar Coral Dendrogyra cylindrus Corals, Jellyfish, and Sea Anemones Central America, Europe, North America (including United States), South America
230. Pilosocereus robinii Pilosocereus robinii Plants Cuba, Florida
231. Pimenta podocarpoides Pimenta podocarpoides Plants Cuba
232. Pimenta oligantha Pimenta oligantha Plants Cuba
233. Pimenta odiolens Pimenta odiolens Plants Cuba
234. Pimenta filipes Pimenta filipes Plants Cuba
235. Pimenta ferruginea Pimenta ferruginea Plants Cuba
236. Pimenta cainitoides Pimenta cainitoides Plants Cuba
237. Pimenta adenoclada Pimenta adenoclada Plants Cuba
238. Pinos Robber Frog Eleutherodactylus pinarensis Amphibians Cuba
239. Pisonia ekmani Pisonia ekmani Plants Cuba
240. Pithecellobium savannarum Pithecellobium savannarum Plants Cuba
241. Plinia rupestris Plinia rupestris Plants Cuba
242. Podocarpus aristulatus Podocarpus aristulatus Plants Central America
243. Podocarpus angustifolius Podocarpus angustifolius Plants Central America
244. Poey's Grouper Epinephelus flavolimbatus Fishes Central America, North America (including United States), South America
245. Porites branneri Porites branneri Corals, Jellyfish, and Sea Anemones Central America, South America
246. Pouteria Tree Pouteria moaensis Plants Central America
247. Pouteria Tree Pouteria micrantha Plants Central America
248. Pouteria Tree Pouteria cubensis Plants Central America
249. Pouteria Tree Pouteria aristata Plants Central America
250. Prehensile-tailed Hutia Mysateles prehensilis Mammals Cuba
251. Pseudosamanea cubana Pseudosamanea cubana Plants Cuba
252. Psidium havanense Psidium havanense Plants Cuba
253. Psychotria cathetoneura Psychotria cathetoneura Plants Cuba
254. Queen Triggerfish Balistes vetula Fishes Africa, Asia, Central America, North America (including United States), Oceanic, South America
255. Rainbow Parrotfish Scarus guacamaia Fishes Central America, North America (including United States), Oceanic, South America
256. Red Grouper Epinephelus morio Fishes Central America, North America (including United States), Oceanic, South America
257. Ricordi's Robber Frog Eleutherodactylus ricordii Amphibians Cuba
258. Ronald's Robber Frog Eleutherodactylus ronaldi Amphibians Cuba
259. Rough Cactus Coral Mycetophyllia ferox Corals, Jellyfish, and Sea Anemones Central America, North America (including United States), South America
260. Roystonea stellata Roystonea stellata Plants Cuba
261. Roystonea lenis Roystonea lenis Plants Cuba
262. Sandhill Crane Grus canadensis Birds Mississippi, West Indies (Cuba)
263. Sarcomphalus havanensis Sarcomphalus havanensis Plants Cuba
264. Seabass Epinephelus niveatus Fishes Central America, North America (including United States), Oceanic, South America
265. Senna domingensis Senna domingensis Plants Cuba, Dominican Republic, Haiti
266. Short-legged Stream Frog Eleutherodactylus rivularis Amphibians Cuba
267. Sierra Maestra Blotched Frog Eleutherodactylus michaelschmidi Amphibians Cuba
268. Somersiella sterreri Somersiella sterreri Crustaceans Bahamas, Bermuda - North Atlantic Ocean, Cuba, Mexico
269. Sooty Shearwater Puffinus griseus Birds Africa, Antarctica, Asia, Australia, Central America, Europe, Middle East, North America (United States Territory), Oceanic, South America
270. Southern Hutia Mysateles meridionalis Mammals Cuba
271. Spirotecoma holguinensis Spirotecoma holguinensis Plants Cuba
272. Spirotecoma apiculata Spirotecoma apiculata Plants Cuba
273. Spotted Eagle Ray Aetobatus narinari Fishes Africa, Asia, Australia, Central America, Middle East, North America (including United States and US Island Territory and Hawaii), Oceans, South America
274. Stygicola dentata Stygicola dentata Fishes Cuba
275. Symington's Robber Frog Eleutherodactylus symingtoni Amphibians Cuba
276. Synapsis ilicifolia Synapsis ilicifolia Plants Cuba
277. Tabebuia arimaoensis Tabebuia arimaoensis Plants Cuba
278. Tabebuia polymorpha Tabebuia polymorpha Plants Cuba
279. Tabebuia anafensis Tabebuia anafensis Plants Cuba
280. Tabebuia oligolepis Tabebuia oligolepis Plants Cuba
281. Tabebuia jackiana Tabebuia jackiana Plants Cuba
282. Tabebuia hypoleuca Tabebuia hypoleuca Plants Cuba
283. Tabebuia furfuracea Tabebuia furfuracea Plants Cuba
284. Tabebuia elongata Tabebuia elongata Plants Cuba
285. Tabebuia dubia Tabebuia dubia Plants Cuba
286. Tabebuia bibracteolata Tabebuia bibracteolata Plants Cuba
287. Tabebuia shaferi Tabebuia shaferi Plants Cuba
288. Tapura orbicularis Tapura orbicularis Plants Cuba
289. Terminalia intermedia Terminalia intermedia Plants Central America
290. Terminalia eriostachya Terminalia eriostachya Plants Central America
291. Tetrazygia elegans Tetrazygia elegans Plants Cuba
292. Thin Leaf Lettuce Coral Agaricia tenuifolia Corals, Jellyfish, and Sea Anemones Central America (including United States Territories), South America
293. Thomas' Robber Frog Eleutherodactylus thomasi Amphibians Cuba
294. Trichilia pungens Trichilia pungens Plants Cuba
295. Trichilia trachyantha Trichilia trachyantha Plants Cuba
296. Trinidad Flathead Frog Eleutherodactylus casparii Amphibians Cuba
297. Trinidad Groin-spot Frog Eleutherodactylus emiliae Amphibians Cuba
298. Turquino Fern Frog Eleutherodactylus glamyrus Amphibians Cuba
299. Turquino Red-armed Frog Eleutherodactylus cubanus Amphibians Cuba
300. Turquino Robber Frog Eleutherodactylus turquinensis Amphibians Cuba
301. Turquino White-footed Frog Eleutherodactylus albipes Amphibians Cuba
302. Vaccinium bissei Vaccinium bissei Plants Cuba
303. Victorinia regina Victorinia regina Plants Cuba
304. Vitex acunae Vitex acunae Plants Cuba
305. West Indian Manatee WATCH A LIVE WEST INDIAN MANATEE Trichechus manatus Mammals Caribbean Sea, South America, Southeastern USA
306. West Indian Walnut Juglans jamaicensis Plants Cuba, Hispaniola, Puerto Rico
307. West Indian Whistling-duck Dendrocygna arborea Birds Antigua, Bahamas, Barbuda, British Virgin Islands, Caymans, Cuba, Dominican Republic, Haiti, Jamaica, Puerto Rico, Saint Kitts and Nevis, Turks and Caicos Islands, Virgin Islands
308. Whale Shark WATCH A LIVE WHALE SHARK Rhincodon typus Fishes Africa, American Samoa, Asia, Australia, Central America, Middle East, Oceanic, South America
309. White-crowned Pigeon Patagioenas leucocephala Birds Central America, North America (including United States), South America
310. Ximenia roigii Ximenia roigii Plants Cuba
311. Xylopia ekmanii Xylopia ekmanii Plants Cuba
312. Yarey Robber Frog Eleutherodactylus toa Amphibians Cuba
313. Yellowfin Grouper Mycteroperca venenosa Fishes Central America, North America (including United States), Oceanic, South America
314. Zamia integrifolia Zamia integrifolia Plants Central America, North America
315. Zamia amblyphyllidia Zamia amblyphyllidia Plants Central America, North America
316. Zanthoxylum flavum Zanthoxylum flavum Plants Central America, North America, Oceanic, South America
317. Zapata Rail Cyanolimnas cerverai Birds Cuba
318. Zapata Wren Ferminia cerverai Birds Cuba
319. Zeus' Robber Frog Eleutherodactylus zeus Amphibians Cuba
320. Zug's Robber Frog Eleutherodactylus zugi Amphibians Cuba

[RME_SFC]

92. That is quite an extensive list.

With your "title" as bye... one may get the impression that these are endangered species (possibly relative to Cuba itself). Would you mind giving a bit more context as to what the list is, and how these species are to be impacted with increased US travel to Cuba? Or, is this more likely to be the result of more tourists from everywhere coming in? I apologize for my ignorance.

[Ghost Dog]

119. Corrupt crony neoliberal (& imperialist) laissez-faire capitalism

--> Environmental (& social) degradation --> Climate change --> mass species extinctions?

[Dreamer Tatum]

4. If only the Cuban people had one person to make decisions for them

...they could live in the paradise they deserve.

Oh wait. They did, and they still do.

[Ken Burch]

8. I'm not defending any of the repression. Just the humane social values.

We both know those values can't survive if mass privatization and foreign takeovers of the economy occur.

It would be a tragedy if Cuba ended up like Poland or Hungary-two countries where nothing progressive or positive can ever happen again.

That's what switching to "market values" does, everyplace in the world:

Starbucks and stock exchanges and upscale boutiques come in, and people end up sleeping in the streets.

[Dreamer Tatum]

10. We certainly can't have capitalism wrecking their prosperity

I agree with you there.



Seriously, who are you to decide what an entire country needs and wants? What would be a tragedy is if some moon-eyed collection of rich-assed gringo do-gooders decided Cubans are far cuter in 1956 Chevys and homemade sandals than they are if they could choose their own path.

[Ken Burch]

12. Capitalism will only make a tiny minority of Cubans more prosperous

It doesn't lift people out poverty here.

And it does nothing to help, for example, the huge number of young LGBTQ people in this country who are homeless.

[Dreamer Tatum]

16. Oh, yeah. This is really a LGBTQ issue.

Sorry, I thought this was about an entire country living under a repressive regime that many liberals who'd shit their
pants without daily $5 coffee find adorable.

My bad.

[Ken Burch]

19. It was a reference to your avatar.

And it's not the place of the US, a country that traditionally treated Cuba as nothing more than a giant offshore whorehouse-casino complex, to try to reshape Cuba to our specifications.

We did that in Eastern Europe and that is why Hungary and Poland are now certain to go fascist. That;s what imposing "market values" on a country means...killing humane values.

It's enough for Cuba to get democracy, as it will.

[Dreamer Tatum]

22. "It's enough for Cuba to get Democracy"

Simply stunning.

[Ken Burch]

51. Why? With democracy they can still have humane social values.

With a capitalist restoration, all humane values would be crushed.

There would be mass income inequality, and nothing progressive ever comes of that.

No sense of solidarity or compassion ever exists in a corporate boardroom. Anywhere.

[uhnope]

63. gross oversimplification at best

your words sound like the come from some rigid, limited belief system that serves to define things as it sees fit in order to make the belief system work.

To say the market economy destroyed humane values in Hungary & Poland is a real stretch.

Were Poland and Hungary particularly humane before the market came, btw? How does one even quantify such a thing?

They went from a repressive Soviet dictatorship to a messy transition period of fitful attempted democracy and market economy and now have RW leaders who are pretty overtly anti-democracy.

It's a gross oversimplification to try to attribute all this to the "market economy".

[Ken Burch]

109. The root cause of all of it was the massive austerity imposed on those countries

by Western lenders in exchange for credit.

In the "free elections" held in Eastern Europe after 1991, every party was forced to agree to carry on the austerity program if elected.

This led to nothing but years of crushing poverty, poverty even the supposedly "social democratic" parties in those countries(and even the former Communist parties, for that matter)were pledged to do nothing about.

The only parties who raised any questions about this were the xenophobic, ethnic-nationalist parties of the extreme Right(not that they had any real plans for changing things, but they sounded like they did, like Trump does here to some desperate people).

Thus, the conditions that transformed Weimar Germany into the Third Reich were imposed everywhere from East Berlin to Warsaw. What else could happen but what did end up happening?

Austerity causes fascism.

[uhnope]

118. honestly that's silly

Did East Germany become fascist? No.
Did all those countries become fascist? No
Please link to info about whatever you mean by "every party was forced to agree."
Those countries were generally economic basket cases at the end of the Soviet kleptocratic disaster. Of course some drastic changes had to happen. But they all generally retained much of the socialist aspects of their economies--national healthcare, strong pensions, pretty strong employee rights (compared to the US especially).
Most of them are much better off economically than they were before. So it's not a post-Weimar situation at all.

You are looking for a reason that Poland and Hungary have RW govs and Hungary, especially, is arguably now not a Democracy. Good for you to be looking. But I don't think the market economy is that reason. It's much more complicated than that and there's a good case to be made that the market economy has nothing at all to do with the turn towards anti-democracy in some of those countries.

I'm not a big fan of so-called free market capitalism at all, but I think you're barking up the wrong tree.

[frankieallen]

103. So your saying an influx of money into the country in the form of resorts, golf courses, restaurant,

ect, ect,
would not create jobs for the locals who may currently be starving and living in the streets?

[Ken Burch]

104. Those things exist here, and they do nothing to stop people having to sleep rough.

If that money was actually going to get to the poor, it would be different.

I'd be glad to be proven wrong, though.

[frankieallen]

108. so they will hire only rich people to construct the buildings, clean rooms, server food, cook,

work on infrastructure, ect??
There are many unskilled workers that work in the service industry and construction here, what your saying makes no sense at all.
They pay taxes that would otherwise not exist, so those that do not work don't have to sleep in the streets and starve.

[Ken Burch]

110. You should say "those whom the system prevents from working" not "those who do not work"

Most people who are jobless or homeless aren't in that situation as a deliberate choice.

[frankieallen]

130. what does that even mean?

Nobody in Cuba is going to complain if money is invested, businesses are created, jobs are created. The island could be a huge Caribbean destination, with tourist spending all kinds of dollars into the local economy.
Your argument is that what? The system will prevent the poorest from working so they should fight the system and not allow corporations invest??? How short sighted.
Have you ever been to Aruba, for example? the whole economy is based on tourism, unemployment is basically 0%, and there is virtually no crime, and it's because everyone on that island could have 2 jobs if they wanted. Yes, a select few get rich, but so what, there's plenty of $$ to go around.
Cuba could be just like that, with investment.
And even though you deny it, I bet you have the latest and greatest iphone

[Ken Burch]

133. I've got an old-school flip phone. n/t.

[frankieallen]

134. fine, you have a flip phone. You are in solidarity with your Cuban bros and sisters

but you agree with everything else i said.

[Ghost Dog]

120. Cubans do not starve or live in the streets in Cubs.

There is no 'underclass' as in the USA or elsewhere in the Americas. What is available is rationed and shared (but, yeah, with extras for 'elites').

[newthinking]

128. so much ignorance thanks to our wonderful MSM narratives

It is always a bit of a shock to see those stereotypes bantered around here since presumably we are not as effected by right wing propaganda.

[newthinking]

15. Well. consider that you are also expressing your opinion of how you think they should progress

I could not help but jump in here. The other poster is not doing anything different than you are?

[Dreamer Tatum]

18. You're right: advocating for them to make their own decisions, is, in a way..

...me imposing my values on them.

I mean, how presumptuous of me: wanting people to decide things for themselves rather than be clucked at
by people who carry $600 iPhones.

[Ken Burch]

33. I don't have a $600 iPhone.

And supporting democracy does mean wanting them to make their own decisions.

The reintroduction of income inequality doesn't help anyone with that.

[Dreamer Tatum]

36. "supporting democracy does mean wanting them to make their own decisions"

Until they decide, for example, they might like a couple of Jack in the Boxes and a Famous Footwear, right?

[Ken Burch]

55. The desire for things like that is always created from without.

People aren't naturally obsessed with getting more things for the sake of getting more things. And when that fixation does go to the head of your personal list of values, you're inevitably going to become more selfish and arrogant and give less of a damn about your fellow human being.

[SoLeftIAmRight]

26. prosperity - lol

choose their own path. - double lol

[SoLeftIAmRight]

31. what do you do to help the earth?

???

[Dreamer Tatum]

32. Sit glumly and wait for my moral betters to pass judgment on me on the internet.

Helps keep my carbon footprint down.

[SoLeftIAmRight]

34. done

be sure to leave a wide path of destruction

and NEVER pass up the opportunity to advocate for others to do the same

[Dreamer Tatum]

35. whatever that means nt

[RME_SFC]

95. I am not sure...

I believe that the poster is stating that they are one of your "moral betters" and that they have passed judgement on you.

The other part.. I am not sure what the poster is attempting to indict you for...


I must admit, when I read " sit glumly and wait...." I spit my coffee all over my monitor and keyboard. So, thanks for that.

[mahatmakanejeeves]

84. Hahahahaha.

Today's Duzy. Thanks.

[uhnope]

62. blaming the political situation in Poland and Hungary on capitalism or on the market

is cracked.

If that were true, all of western Europe would have gone fascist and economically cruel by now. Instead it's probably the freest region in the world with a pretty decent distribution of wealth, relatively speaking.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

97. I have been to Cuba twice

There are already people sleeping on the streets.

[Warpy]

7. I disagree, I think much will be preserved

especially in the cities where old colonial architecture is falling apart and desperately needs repair.

As for the market economy coming in, it's not only there, it's been there for quite a while, and while Gucci doesn't appeal to me, either, even now that I could afford it if I wanted to be stupid and go hungry, they have repaired the building they're in and worked on cleaning up the area.

I would strongly hope they transition to a mixed economy like other formerly Communist countries have done, keeping the best of socialism and adding the quick response to consumer demand that capitalism is good at.

The iron fist will probably die with the Castros. What I hope most of all is that medicine stays socialist there, from research to patient care. There is a lot to admire about their system, even if it's Spartan by our standards (at least for people who can afford it here).

[Ken Burch]

14. I agree with you about the iron fist part. n/t.

[MADem]

9. There is a GORGEOUS McDonald's right next to the Spanish Steps in Rome--to the right as you go up.

You can have poetry and cultural truth and McDonald's - you just have to have a society that values poetry and cultural truth, and doesn't mind the McDonald's so long as they try to fit in.





?zz=1

As for the Cubans, I'm not going to make any judgments about what they might want and how right or not it is for them to have wants and wishes and desires. It's all too easy to devalue "consumerism" when there's not much a person might want that they can't, in fact, get. Picturesque may, day to day, be unsafe.

When a person comes from a place of great deprivation, the motivations are sometimes different.

And the good old days? Sometimes they weren't all that good.

We tend to remember the good and forget the bad--it's how we humans cope.

[Electric Monk]

21. 2nd picture, bottom left, is that 5 (at least) different kinds of salad to choose from?

I don't remember anything even close to that the last time I was in a McDicks, which, admittedly was over a decade ago.

Yeah, I know, "their" menu varies quite a bit depending on region.

https://www.buzzfeed.com/gavon/45-mcdonalds-items-not-available-in-the-us-that?

So, it's not the same restaurant at all, it's just a trademarked global franchise to get people in the door.

[MADem]

59. They have a self-serve option and lots of things that aren't on US menus.

You can also get a beer with your meal. It's the basic menu... PLUS. I mean, let's be honest, it's fast food--but every now and again that's just the thing. Homesick for those fries or nuggets? And it's great if you want a cup of coffee to go.

In Japan I used to go to the McDonald's to get the CORN SOUP. While everyone else was ordering burgers, I was getting double corn soups--mmmm, good eatin'!

[Recursion]

28. This is your parody of yourself, right?

I mean... even on DU nobody actually is that warped, I hope?

[Ken Burch]

42. It's not warped to believe a capitalist restoration in Cuba can't be anything but a tragedy.

Cuba needs an end to repression, but nothing positive can be built with personal monetary gain as the prime motivation. Only Starbucks.

[Recursion]

43. Well, fortunately you'll see how wrong you are in the next few years

Cuba is going to get much, much better than it is now.

[Ken Burch]

45. Nothing good for the people can come from greed.

Anytime you go from seeing the world as "we", to seeing it as "I", you destroy the soul of a society.

The transformation in the US from the Sixties to the Eighties illustrates this.

[Recursion]

48. Nonsense

Greed has good and bad repercussions, just like hunger, lust, curiosity, or any other desire.

[JI7]

52. the US is far better off than Cuba. they risk their lives to come here. you don't see that happening

the other way around.

[Ken Burch]

53. It's better in material terms. That isn't all that matters in life.

The values of a society matter, too. Any time values switch from being collective to individualist, the result is a society where nothing but right-wing things occur, where compassion and human connection diminish and people turn against each other.

The changes in this country from the Sixties to the Eighties prove this. Selfishness and "aspirational" values won, and everything just got uglier and meaner. We are just now just barely recovering from that.

[JI7]

58. how come you can't point to specific examples ? you are too hung up on trying to prove how liberal

you are .

[DanTex]

73. Democracy will bring in a market economy. The only thing stopping a market

economy there was the authoritarian communist regime. People don't vote for a command economy, it only happens when it is imposed on them.

And a market economy will be a good thing for Cuba. People will be lifted out of poverty. Poverty is not "poetry and cultural truth", it is misery.

Tell Barcelona or Kyoto that beauty and a market economy can't co-exist. Or for that matter NYC.

[lunamagica]

79. "Yes, people might have more things...but that isn't anything."

"Yes, people might have more things...but that isn't anything. "

Seriously?

Did you read the article? They don't have food, buildings are crumbling and killing people, their hospitals are filthy...But that isn't anything?

From where you are, the crumbling buildings are beauiful...to them they are death traps.

This is rich, coming from someone who has internet access and is typing comfortable on a computer.

Don't lecture about "poverty", or that having things is "nothing", until you move there and live (happily) under those circumstances.

[Ken Burch]

113. You're assuming we can even trust what the author at the link is saying.

I've seen the same claims, nearly word-for-word, in things written and said by Miami exiles for decades now.

The line about hospitals covered in feces is clearly bullshit.

[lunamagica]

126. It should be up to them how they want to live. They don't exist for fulfill the fantasies of

foreigners who think they look adorable in their old cars and dilapidated buildings. If they want a McDonalds, it should be their choice.

Perhaps living in "poetry" for the benefit of others is not what it's cracked up to be.

[sufrommich]

86. "You can't have poetry and cultural truth AND McDonald's."

What an utterly simplistic notion.

[Adrahil]

137. What's "authentic" about Soviet-style command economies?

The centralized command economy, with it's persistent scarcity, and oppression of individualism is just about as artificial as you can get. There is very little creative or innovative thought.

I think this kind of romanticization of Cuban socialism is paternalistic and naive.

[SoLeftIAmRight]

11. that is one stupid cuban

...

[Nye Bevan]

17. Yep. In five words you have provided a comprehensive, erudite, and devastating rebuttal

to her entire argument.

Those instagram posts by American tourists will just not look as cool when the cars on the street in the background are reliable, modern, fuel-efficient ones.

[SoLeftIAmRight]

20. only stupid people do not understand what is going to be lost soon

it is sad that so many know so little

[Nye Bevan]

23. "it is sad that so many know so little"

.... on that, I am in 100% agreement with you.

[SoLeftIAmRight]

24. lol

name three things that will be lost soon???

[Ash_F]

13. I have some questions about the facts the writer alleges in the opening

Namely one: Is this bullshit?

I mean, her whole argument rests on the picture she painted to be an accurate one. If the picture is fabricated, which it might be because this is the first I have heard this, then her essay falls apart.

[Recursion]

30. This is really the first you've heard about the poverty and dysfunction in Cuba?

Really?

[Ken Burch]

39. Cuba has problems. The reintroduction of massive corporations can't solve them.

It has only made things massively worse for the many in Modi's India, where you live.

It has spread Hindu nationalism(always an essentially fascist movement). It has devastated the environment through the construction of massive megadams and unregulated resource extraction. It has driven tens of millions into greater poverty. A few ceo's and Bollywood stars are better off.

That's the whole story right there.

[Recursion]

41. OK, tell India to turn back the clock and erase their middle class

That will go over real well.

"Sorry, twelve million newly urbanized people who are the first people in their family to ever cross over the global poverty level: back to the villages! Ken Burch has some nostalgia going on and wants you to pretend you're worse off than you were before the evil corporations came!"

Yeah, that's going to go over real well...

[Ken Burch]

47. What about the millions forcibly driven from their homes so useless megadams could be built?

People who were never compensated for that?

Or all those forced out of jobs and left destitute?

What happened to them was nothing?

I'm not nostalgic for the Congress Party era...but you should listen to people like Arundhati Roy.

[Recursion]

50. Look, you're being absurd at this point

No moral human being can actually knowingly want to turn back the urbanization of Asia and the Global South.

I take you as a moral human being, so I'm just going to give you the benefit of the doubt that you're an idealistic American with little to no idea what the actual rest of the world looks like or why your vision is so incredibly, incredibly horrifying.

[Ken Burch]

57. It may be irreversible, but it never had to be done the way it was done.

There was never any justification for forcibly uprooting people. There was a move to the cities happening anyway.

It didn't have to involve coercion, or environmental devastation, or letting the multinationals do whatever the hell they wanted.

It could have been done democratically, compassionately, with respect for the people, and with green values.

It wasn't a choice of megaprojects or back to the spinning wheel.

[1939]

70. How much environmental devastation

occurred in your socialist paradise, the Soviet Union?

How many people were forced from their homes under Lenin and Stalin?

[Ken Burch]

105. I never saw the Soviet Union as paradise, or socialist.

That state was a right-wing Slavic-nationalist dictatorship in actual practice.

I defend nothing Stalin did, and little that Lenin did.

[1939]

117. Under socialsim, the government owns the means of production

By that definition, the Soviet Union was completely socialist.

It just carried it to the extreme absurdity (as has Castro).

[Ken Burch]

121. Actually, that's just one form of socialism

There is also the concept of collective popular ownership, which means collective ownership by the people without involving the state, and there are cooperatives, and there is state investment in enterprises without ownership.

And there have been many societies(old-style absolute monarchies, for example)where everything was effectively owned by the state, but in which no socialist characteristics occurred.

And I hate the Soviet Union as much as you do(99.9 % of the people on today's left would say the same) including the Molotov-Von Ribbentrop Pact you are probably trying to evoke by posting under the name "1939", so enough already with the Joe McCarthy-HUAC bullshit.

[1939]

135. Where each set of workers owns their own business

is called "syndicalism" (at least according to my socialist economics professor years ago). The problem socialists have with that is that the workers in one business might allow the business to exploit the others, just like capitalism. The means of production have to be controlled by all for the benefit of all, which means state control of everything.

[Ken Burch]

139. That should be "the problem SOME socialists have". There is no unified "line" on that.

Please stop using "socialist" as a euphemism for "Stalinist".

[B2G]

74. "At this point"?

It actually happened several dozen posts ago.

[Recursion]

81. Yeah fair enough (nt)

[RandySF]

78. Those awful megadams.

You're right. My coworkers is nostalgic of the good old days when they had to gather water only as it periodically rolled downhill (and his family was one of the more prosperous in town). Good times.

[Ken Burch]

88. Read Arundhati Roy sometime.

It wasn't just building the dams. They sent in the army to force massive numbers of people to leave their homes, didn't give them time to get their belongings, never compensated them or apologized for the uprooting, left them no choice but to go to the cities with nothing.

It never had to be done that way. It never had to be brutal and disruptive.

And there was always the option of small, human scale water projects that didn't uproot people.

[Ash_F]

67. This is the first time I have heard a bottle of shampoo is 15% a doctor's monthly income

Or that a family can get life in prison for butchering their own cow.

Does this author have any evidence to back up these two claims?

Why should I believe her?

[Recursion]

68. Fair question.

Based on what evidence have you believed the things you do believe about Cuba?

[Ash_F]

71. Don't know much about it, outside of what people who have been there have written.

Every writer has their own perspective, but this woman is not claiming that she has actually seen those two things happen in Cuba.

Her politics may have merit, but those specific claims are so out there that I would have ask her how she knows them to be true.

If I had to guess, she probably picked up those stories from her parents, family or friends and failed to cite. That makes them rumors.

If she failed to verify, or even fabricated part of the story, then that unfortunately discredits the entire essay. That's on her. She was trying to convince me, the reader.

[Ken Burch]

111. Good points.

Everything she says about conditions in Cuba is basically the standard rich, white Miami exile "line".

[Coventina]

138. I posted down thread about my recent visit. Personal toiletries are in short supply and expensive.

That tidbit is true.

The "butchering their own cow" is mostly fabrication, as I explain in my other post.

I see the essay as mostly distorted propaganda, and typical of the Miami exile mind-set trying whip up anger at the Castro regime.

For all its failures, and there are MANY, the Revolution remains popular with the majority of Cubans.

For most of them (NOT ALL) life has improved over what they had with the Bautista regime.

They do not see themselves as victims and do not want to be treated as such. They are proud of themselves and their country.

[Ash_F]

140. Is a bottle of shampoo $3 usd and a doctor's monthly salary $20?

Thanks for your input.

[Just reading posts]

29. Thank you for posting, this article is very much appreciated.

[eissa]

37. Great article, and very similar to what most Cubans

both inside and in exile, will tell you. The permanent time warp imposed by the Castros was never the objective of the Revolution. Those men did not fight and die to replace one tyrant with another. In fact, the official communist party didn't even join the battle until nearly the end when victory was all but assured. What the revolutionaries fought for, and what the masses were told would be the outcome, was a free and democratic country. It didn't exactly turn out that way.

[Ghost Dog]

124. The time warp image is largely imposed

by your media, you might find were you to engage in an educational visit (visiting the real Cuba, not just tourist magnets).

[akbacchus_BC]

38. Thank you, great post. My daughter and son-in-law visited and they loved the place.

They went to different parts of Cuba and spent about two days in Havana.

I cannot wait to go. It is one country that is on my bucket list. Cuba will not be ruined now or ever, however, with the US allowing travel and removed the sanctions, Cuba will thrive. Just my two cents worth!

[Ken Burch]

40. All the new buildings will be soulless skyscrapers.

The free education and healthcare will be taken away and nothing can compensate for their loss.

[akbacchus_BC]

44. Am confused! Do you mean if America were to engage Cuba again, everything

including health care, free education, free scholarships for people around the world will be taken away! I do not think that Cuba will agree to that.

I am sure you know that Cuba has the best hurricane disaster preparedness in the world!

[Ken Burch]

46. Engage, no. Insist on a market-driven economy, yes.

The values will shift from everyone working together for a common good to "what's in it for me?"

Nothing positive ever comes of that.

[akbacchus_BC]

49. I disagree that Cuba will lose its values to America's engagement. They been there and know

what the consequences are! Am sure they will thread lightly with a country who disengaged them for 50 years and survived. People learn from false platitudes, especially third world countries and I bet Cuba will never entertain the IMF. Just my humble opinion coming from the Caribbean.

[Ken Burch]

64. To clarify, I'm not against the US engaging with Cuba.

What I am against is the idea of anyone pushing for a Friedmanite transition there.

Or anyone in the US still seeing the US-Cuba relationship as one in which the US has to "win".

I respect your views.

[1939]

72. The only reason the quaint, falling apart buildings are there now

Is that the Cuban government has never had the money to tear them down and build soulless skyscrapers or bleak workers flats.

[Hulk]

56. Thanks....I won't say it again

because I've said it probably a dozen times in the last month.

But in OUR defense, I only mean I want to see it before it becomes a tourist destination like Cancun or Las Vegas. I certainly didn't mean it to refer to the poverty or the role of communism. I suspect that once the Castro brothers move on to the next world, communism will crumble after the funerals. I know there are hard-liners who will try to keep it alive; but I don't see it lasting much longer. The people have suffered enough...thanks in good part to US, the capitalistas to the north.

[JI7]

61. or paris or rome ?

[nikto]

60. To me, this reads like ...

The work of a classic 1980s Reaganite.
I was there, and I got lectures like this from them more than once (about the evils
of social-eezum, usually, in some form or other).

Noit joking.
I am 100% serious.


This site is for Democrats, right?

[BlueMTexpat]

65. While I will never say something

like "I want to go to Cuba before it is ruined," Ms Morales is not "an actual Cuban."

She is Cuban-American and very much a product of the Cuban-American anti-Castro community in Miami. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natalie_Morales_(actress) She is also an actress, not a serious journalist. http://floodmagazine.com/33964/breaking-natalie-morales/

This is hardly an unbiased report and should not be taken as gospel.

[LanternWaste]

69. Of course there's always someone somewhere telling us what to say and not say.

Of course there's always someone somewhere telling us what to say and not say.

[Nye Bevan]

83. I know, those uppity ethnic groups saying "please don't say this" and "please don't say that",

right? What right do they have to ask Americans how not to talk about the countries their families came from?

[RandySF]

76. Let's keep in mind that Cuba is so 'authentic' in largely because of the embargo

that, at the same time, has led to a great deal of deprivation among the people. Not man people REALLY want to drive around in 50-year old cars that are difficult to find parts for. So be careful about calling a people 'quaint' and 'authentic' while they struggle to keep the lights on, even in this Socialist Paradise.

[Ken Burch]

115. Thank you for making the case for lifting the embargo.

Doing that is more important than anything else.

The embargo is probably the cause of the huge markup on prices for shipping food TO Cuba.

[RandySF]

131. It should been lifted at least 40 years ago.

[HughBeaumont]

82. Turning it into "Fuck You, Pay Me" America isn't the answer either.

Look, I get that journalists far and wide buy into the red-bait absolutist theme of "LUUK HOW FREEKN TERRBLE TIS UNDR TH COMMIES!!!!!11!!" and the only cure for that hellscape is what we have here: naively trusting the corporations to do all the things you don't want "TEH EEEEEVUL REPRESSIVE GUMBINT" to do.

Well, here's a big fat "duurrrrrrrrrrrrrr": where has it ever been espoused by anyone with a brain stem that things were a utopia under pure Socialism or pure Capitalism? Certainly not me.

Difference is, there are more than a few dozen million that think near-pure Capitalism IS a utopia. Sorry, those sad fuckers are JUST as brain-damaged.

Not everything has to be about making a buck, especially when it comes to human rights and necessities. In America, we seem to think that declaring war on the economic interests of it's citizens is akin to a strong, take-no-shit nation. It's upside-down; by gutting the social safety net and commoditizing education and health care, we're actually a weaker country.

False dilemmas are a road to ruin. I only hope corporate interests aren't the sole orchestrators of Cuba's rebound once the Castros die. I only hope they look to other nations in their transition to a hopefully evolved country . . . the opposite of what America's become.

[sufrommich]

85. "see it before it's ruined" is the ultimate display of privilege.

Although totally unsurprising that some can't see that as such.

[Yavin4]

89. Kim and Kanye have been there. So, it's already ruined like here. n/t

[Coventina]

90. Having just returned from Cuba, I have a quasi-rebuttle.

I take the author's points, and he/she makes some very good ones, but a lot of the points are really one-sided and make me wonder what the author's background and intentions are.

The first paragraph about the "starving farmer" killing "his" cow. A totally ridiculous scenario, as the farmers LEASE the cows from the government. This is a practice decades old and is not a surprise to anyone. The farmers lease the cows and in return are able to use all the produce from said cow(s): milk & manure. They can then sell the dairy products or manure for their own profit, or consume them at home, or use the manure on their own fields. I saw MANY farmers selling their farm-made cheese along the roads of Cuba.

Having said that, Cuba is not even suited to large-scale beef production. They simply don't have the land and space. Raising beef takes a LOT of natural resources that Cuba doesn't have. But, the writer doesn't mention THAT reality.

I visited many farms, and they all seemed pretty well-managed and prosperous. I would argue the country folk are doing better than the city-folk. The soil is incredibly fertile, and the tropical climate keeps the crops well watered.

Yes, the government stipend is not enough to live on. Nobody even tries to live on it. Private enterprise is EVERYWHERE in Cuba. There are over 200 government approved occupations in the private sector. More are promised. But for the time being, everyone is busy making it work. Do some people fall through the cracks? Sure! They do here as well.

I went off on my own, unsupervised, in many Cuban communities and nowhere did I see child prostitutes (or any prostitutes for that matter) or anyone starving.

I also call bullshit on the feces covered hospitals. Yes, many of the neighborhood clinics are understocked. Yes, you often have to bring supplies from home. But cleanliness is a value shared by ALL Cubans. Visit any public restroom. There might not be toilet seats, and you cannot flush your paper, but the bathrooms are maintained to a high level of cleanliness by the ever-present bathroom attendant.

Poor medical care exists HERE as well. Anyone told to elevate their feet for a stroke can easily get other opinions, as Cuba has the highest number of doctors per capita in the world. Every family has two or three. Don't like the instructions you got? Consult your cousin instead.

And, this writer seems to conveniently forget that the embargo was for the US! Cubans have plenty of other cars on the streets: Toyotas, VWs, BMWs, Audis, etc. Granted, only the better-off have fancy new cars, but saying that's ALL THEY HAVE is an outright lie.

This article sounds like a right-wing rant to me.

My $.02 based on my direct observations.

[Ghost Dog]

127. Thank you. Were you on an organised tour?

Did you see more 'organic' or 'eco-aware' than 'industrialised' farming? I haven't been there since the late '90s.

[Coventina]

129. Yes. Although we were given lots of free time to go and do whatever we wished.

So, the tour was not "sanitized."

If it had been, I would have been much more skeptical about what I saw otherwise.

Yes, most farming is "organic" and "eco-aware" by necessity. Farmers cannot afford to buy expensive chemical fertilizers and pesticides. So, they have to rely on the time-honored practices of organics and crop-rotation.

[forjusticethunders]

93. ITT: Cuban emigre wankers and tankies argue while everyone else shakes their head

We should let the Cuban people decide what socioeconomic direction they want to go instead of trying to impose our ideological cul-de-sac on them. Especially leftists. I'm not cool with ideological imperialism. Personally I think they'll be fine though, they're not going full Ayn Rand or anything like that.

With that said, I obviously would like them to maintain a more socialist orientation but that's for Cuba to decide. All leftists can do is be an advocate and ally for the Cuban working class.

[MohRokTah]

94. I just want to see it as it is right now.

With the influx of US tourism, and there will be such an influx, the standard of living is going to improve enormously and Cuba will probably end up better off than most of their island neighbors.

I think it's important for us, as Americans, to understand what we did to the Cuban people for so many decades with our stupid policies. The only way for us to understand will be to go and to document it as it currently exists because in a decade, Cuba will not be the same.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

96. Cuba is Eurotrash Central

There is very little we have to contribute to "ruining" Cuba.

[Aerows]

112. What the Hell did I just read?

Oh, there are no Utopias on Earth. Gotcha, how profound?

[liberalhistorian]

132. I have heard these things from many Cubans I've known,

and I don't doubt it. I consider such sentiments as the author describes to be the height of privilege, people thinking that such a time bubble is so "authentic" and "real" and "beautiful" and "purposeful" and that such a time bubble and its people are lucky to be iving such "authentic" lives when the reality is that daily life sucks royally for most of the people in that bubble and the privileged don't want to hear about it because they don't want their idyllic delusions shattered.

I will be finding this out firsthand this fall when I go to Cuba for nearly two weeks with a group from my (progressive, liberal, social-justice-oriented, LGBT-welcoming) seminary, and I have no such delusions at all. It's interesting that the author mentions really old cars, because a couple of cars from the 1950's will be our transportation during our time there. Like she says, it's all our host group has and all that's available. And I'm actually looking forward to getting out of my privileged comfort zone.

Now, I've done that to some extent as a white gal living on an Indian reservation in the west. Before I came here, I'd never known people who walked twenty miles round trip to buy groceries and conduct business at the tribal office because they either can't afford cars or don't have enough gas money for the day. A lot of housing doesn't have modern amenities or is falling apart, and there's more than eighty percent unemployment. But I've still been somewhat sheltered from that given the fairly decent economic position hubby and I are in. There will be no such "sheltering" in Cuba and that's the way I and the other attendees want it.