General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsAmericans are split on "Reverse Racism". That still doesn't mean it exists.
The PRRI survey used "reverse racism" and "reverse discrimination" interchangeably. But that may be a fundamental part of misunderstanding the differences between the two.
Discrimination, like prejudice, is not the same as racism. Discrimination refers to the biases one exhibits against a racial group. Racism, by contrast, reinforces discriminatory attitudes with social, political, cultural, and economic institutions that have historically disenfranchised a group of people simply because of their racial identity. When reverse racism is treated as discrimination, as is the case for the PRRI study, racism is flattened into a set of attitudes without the power dynamics that give certain biases salience over others.
http://www.vox.com/2016/6/29/12045772/reverse-racism-affirmative-action
ismnotwasm
(41,955 posts)The dictionary contortions people use to try and say it does are horrifying
Tommy_Carcetti
(43,137 posts)But reverse racism/reverse bigotry certainly can exist.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)while "reverse discrimination" and "reverse bigotry" don't exist ... there is either discrimination/bigotry or not; but, reverse racism can't exist.
Tommy_Carcetti
(43,137 posts)And when deal with issues of race, that bigotry plays out as racism. It's seen as "reverse" because it runs counter to the typical majority against minority flow, but that doesn't deny that it can't occur.
But discrimination (i.e. setting up legal and quasi-legal barriers against a group) implies the party doing the discrimination holds all the cards against the party being discriminated against. So by nature, an oppressed minority group can't discriminate against the majority group in power, because the minority group doesn't have all the cards to use to discriminate.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)But that makes it bigotry, not reverse bigotry.
Not true ... bigotry plays out as racism, if and only if, there is institutional and/or culture support of that bigotry; otherwise, it's still "just" bigotry.
Nope ... your definition of discrimination contains the distinguishing element of the "isms", i.e., institutional/cultural power, whether we are talking racism, sexism, anti-Semitism, or heterosexism.
You just have it a little backwards per 21st century social scientists.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)Now, we will be "treated" to post after post of Webster's to "prove" discrimination equals racism, ergo the subordinate sub-group CAN be racist, ergo, reverse discrimination is real.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)it would serve as a sign for hope!
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Kinda sad how hard it is to get this point across to fellow dems. I thought it was only Republicans who fell for the reverse racism nonsense.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)the conservative ones.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)bravenak
(34,648 posts)Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)Main Entry: racism
Part of Speech: noun
Definition: prejudice against an ethnic group
Synonyms: apartheid, bias, bigotry, discrimination, illiberality, one-sidedness, partiality, racialism, sectarianism, segregation, unfairness
http://www.thesaurus.com/browse/racism
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)popular culture.
Major Nikon
(36,818 posts)There is no reverse. It's either discrimination on the basis of class or it's not. Civil Rights laws are quite clear on the subject and it just isn't that complicated.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)And especially, this:
It just takes a little openness to additional information.
Response to bravenak (Original post)
Post removed
ismnotwasm
(41,955 posts)Doesn't exist. And yes, the distinction matters.
HassleCat
(6,409 posts)But it's so small as to be inconsequential.
There are black people who hold significant power, maybe even control, in important American institutions. Every once in a while, there is a case where it seems possible a black person used his or her to give something to a fellow black person and deny something to a white person, and the institution as a whole supported this. But these are isolated possibilities, tiny little slices of the huge pie, outliers. They really don't mean anything. So reverse racism exists only as a semantic possibility. It's certainly not a political or social problem that should worry us. It's more of a way for disgruntled white people to get excited and do some shouting.
I'm watching the Trump rally right now and I'm sure his fans totally believe in reverse racism fully. They feel oppressed too!
KMOD
(7,906 posts)they believe is oppressing them.
49%? That's just crazy.
Skittles
(153,104 posts)discrimination is discrimination - period
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)At its core, racism is a system in which a dominant race benefits off the oppression of others whether they want to or not. We dont live in a society where every racial group has equal power, status, and opportunity. Yes, white people all over the world and throughout history have experienced atrocities like slavery and persecution. But in the very specific context of American history, white people have not been enslaved, colonized, or forced to segregate on the scale that black people have. They do not face housing or job discrimination, police brutality, poverty, or incarceration at the level that black people do. This is not to say that they do not experience things like poverty and police brutality at all. But again, not on the same scale not even close. That is the reality of racism.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/reverse-racism-isnt-a-thing_us_55d60a91e4b07addcb45da97
My feeling is that prejudice is a personal attitude, but racism denotes a system based behavior. It can be codified, as in Jim Crow laws, or it can be informal.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)As a Black man, my "prejudice" might hurt someone's feelings; but, will have little, if any, effect, beyond our person interaction, on that person's life/livelihood.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)And this attempt to excuse systematic racism by claiming that the dominant group is also subject to racism has no foundation.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)in the fragile feels of those looking to explain why they are not earning 6 figure salaries (grad degree in 18th Century Gaelic Romantic Poetry, not withstanding) while there are members of the subordinate group (with MBAs and law degrees) that are.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)The sarcasm was put on a bit heavily.
And I have heard this argument before, but meant seriously.
Ps. Like the "subordinate group" phrase.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)and people wonder why Trump is winning that demographic.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)I see why he's winning them. He is them, just rich. I expect Trump to cry misandry soon since Edub and Hillary are tag teaming him.
runaway hero
(835 posts)Someone is not telling the truth with these polls.
JustAnotherGen
(31,777 posts)First - it just is something or its not.
Second - too many people deny racism exists and it's very often spouted by people that claim they are the victim of this reverse thing.
It is or it isn't.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)They say racism is not a big deal but swear they are oppressed by this reverse racism thingy.
malaise
(268,635 posts)Racism against African-Americans does not exist but there's racism against us. Hilarious
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)is that 29% of African Americans believe that discrimination against white people is as big of an issue as discrimination against black people. I would have expected that number to be more like 5% or even less.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)JustAnotherGen
(31,777 posts)I've seen people treat Eastern European immigrants just awful in my region.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)But I don't think so. I think they see those people as a part of us 'minorities' that are ruining america for them. These seem like the ones who think affirmative action is racist against white people.
mountain grammy
(26,595 posts)that white Christians are being discriminated against because of a ruling that "Jesus Saves" can't be plastered on a public bus stop bench. They're convinced their daughter didn't qualify for SNAP benefits because she's the "wrong color." They also reject the science of evolution and climate change. Oh yeah, and Obama's a Muslim.
We've decided to remain sane and skip the trip to visit family in Texas in an election year. Facts and reality mean nothing to these people, but they have a "Pray for America" sign at their front door. Jesus approved!
DesMoinesDem
(1,569 posts)And if you think minorities can't be racist you are an idiot. And probably a racist idiot.
runaway hero
(835 posts)Some people believe in what I can the normal theory, that is anyone can be racist
Some people believe in power theory racism, that is to say white people cannot be victims of racism because they have the power in society.
malaise
(268,635 posts)belief that you can change the meaning of a well established Social-Science concept. A trained community came up with knowledge on that subject based on empirical evidence. If you presented your interpretation in an examination you would fail the course.
runaway hero
(835 posts)I was just saying people have to different theories on how racism can be applied to white people in terms of them being victims, that's all.
malaise
(268,635 posts)Racism has one meaning. What is applied to white people is prejudice and discrimination NOT RACISM.
I am not saying racism cannot be applied to white people. If I have a restaurant with a sign 'no whites' - that is racism.
If I don't want my son to marry a white woman, that is prejudice or discrimination.
malaise
(268,635 posts)don't want to get it.
The fact that someone might only hang out with their own race or doesn't want her/his child to marry outside of their race will not deprive anyone of access to socio-economic, political institutions or employment in those institutions. Sure, there is prejudice and discrimination but neither is racism.
beastie boy
(9,227 posts)all. It's like playing a Beatles record backwards and hearing "I buried Paul".
Curiously, the vast majority of "reverse discrimination" charges come from groups or individuals representing a racial majority who claim racial bias from groups or individuals representing a racial majority, even if some individuals involved are not white.
Non-minority institutions discriminating against non-minority individuals on the basis of their skin color. "I buried Paul" indeed.