General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsOh My! Boris Johnson rules himself out of Tory leadership race after Gove ditches him
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/30/boris-johnson-rules-himself-out-of-tory-leadership-race-brexit-eu-referendum<snip>
Boris Johnson has unexpectedly ruled himself out of the Conservative leadership race hours after his key ally Michael Gove announced a challenge for the top job, on a turbulent morning.
Speaking at a hotel in central London, where he had been expected to launch his candidacy, Johnson gave an upbeat speech, saying the agenda for the next prime minister was for the UK to become a more outward-looking nation that resets its relationship with Europe.
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The backstabbing among British Cons is breath-taking.
Adrahil
(13,340 posts)... seem to think Johnson is shell-shocked. He doesn't have a plan. He never had a plan. He's like the proverbial guy who got what he wished for and now has no idea what to do with it.
Lucinda
(31,170 posts)Did you see The Dark Night? When I hear about people like Boris acting without a real plan for "afterwards"- I always default to that scene between Harvey Dent and The Joker at the hospital when The Joker answers Dent's question with
"Do I really look like a guy with a plan? You know what I am? I'm a dog chasing cars. I wouldn't know what to do with one if I caught it! You know, I just... *do* things."
OnDoutside
(19,945 posts)Boris out, Gove in, May in (all confirmed). Boris was told (by 1922 Committee) he would be divisive as Leader and he wouldnt be Leader for long. Gove promised him the role of cabinet minister with special responsibility for EU oversight negotiations, providing he dropped out, possibly with Leadsom as deputy. May, wont gather enough support beyond 2nd round. Crabb no chance, fall at first fence.
malaise
(268,676 posts)Welcome to DU
OnDoutside
(19,945 posts)pampango
(24,692 posts)Surprise. Surprise. Let's hope Americans don't buy into the same 'surprise' in November.
nolabear
(41,931 posts)Big mouth, no plan. That's our Donald!
malaise
(268,676 posts)Typical Boris. He's a pathological LIAR
socialist_n_TN
(11,481 posts)decided they wanted to destroy Labour too.
It's not just the Conservatives' backstabbing that's breathtaking.
OnDoutside
(19,945 posts)socialist_n_TN
(11,481 posts)with the Conservatives since Corbyn was elected and HUNDREDS of thousands of people have joined Labour since Corbyn's election, including 16k new members since this coup attempt. That doesn't sound like a leader who's flailing or failing.
There are two primary motivations for this attempt at backstabbing. The surface motivation is written about above, the fear that Corbyn will lead to an electoral defeat. This is tied in with the 80s/90s Blairite, neo-liberal mindset that you've got to be Tory lite to win an election. It's pure opportunism. "Vote for us. We'll screw you over, but not as bad as Boris or Gove will".
But there's a hidden motivation too. Their also afraid that Corbyn just MIGHT win an election and send their neo-liberal view into the dustbin of history. The PLP over the last two plus decades have bought TOTALLY into Thatcher's "There is no alternative" to such an extent that they can't allow an alternative to even get NEAR Downing Street or run for the big office. TINA means that it can't even be mentioned.
It's just a way for the Blairites to take back "their" party from the people IN the party. The ones who had the temerity to elect Corbyn in the first place. Of course the Blairites won't beat the Tories either, but winning an election is secondary to keeping the public from demanding the alternative to austerity or austerity lite that Corbyn might provide.
OnDoutside
(19,945 posts)Stalin's grandson. It's $5 to join the Labour Party. Quite a number of PLP members are only too cognisant of the disloyalty shown by Corbyn to successive party leaders and his pursuit of his own agenda at all times.
There are times when membership of the PLP means grinning and bearing it in the face of angry voters, cranky union bosses and vile Tory press scum (i.e. most media) but party solidarity may demand it. Successive MPs have had to make that choice and they regard Corbyn as a poor leader because he has always indulged his ''integrity'' to distance himself from the others. If politics was easy, they'd all be at it. And no. it is not mere pragmatism, that oft derided word but taking the longer view and saving the interests of those of the populace who voted for your party and not just the Dave and Deirdre Sparts of the hard left.
And no matter what the stated policies of Corbyn and his inner circle, they are hard left and not representative of those who are in their positions because of the ultimate validation, the voters, not the members of the PLP.
socialist_n_TN
(11,481 posts)OnDoutside
(19,945 posts)splitting or getting bate out the gate in the coming General Election. There's already a suggestion that Centre Left Labour, the Lib Dems and the Greens getting together.
"all socialists, all progressive people"
socialist_n_TN
(11,481 posts)Labour splitting? That was pretty much of a done deal when these class traitors pulled this chickencoup. RW Labour joining up with the Lib Dems? Possibly. But they will ALL VOTE WITH THE TORIES AND UKIP FOR AUSTERITY FOR THE PEOPLE AND BAILOUTS FOR THE BANKS!
At least these folks will offer the people a choice in the matter other than austerity or austerity lite.
OnDoutside
(19,945 posts)Progressive ? I've seen this used by Socialists in a number of countries now.
Class traitors is an emotive term, isn't it just reasonable to take a position that Socialists are too ideologically rigid to be electable ?
socialist_n_TN
(11,481 posts)they're asking for a joint struggle with other progressive social forces, not some sort of rebranding. Class traitors is this case is accurate, even if emotive. Unlike the Democrats in this country, Labour in the UK was NOT begun as a "big tent" or a "party for all classes". Labour was begun as a political party to represent WORKERS first, NOT the bosses. When members of a workers' party side with the owners AGAINST the workers and their interests, then class traitors is accurate if emotive.
Edited to add: The above sentence about "progressive" only relates to people and groups. As a general term Marxists have used progressive to describe social forces in analysis as opposed to regressive forces. IOW, per Marx and Marxists, capitalism was a progressive system compared to feudalism or the slave cultures that preceded it.
OnDoutside
(19,945 posts)still toxic in the likes of the UK and USA.
I agree Labour lurched to the right, but lurching all the way back to the far left isn't the solution in the UK. Oh for a John Smith right now.
socialist_n_TN
(11,481 posts)although the right-wing in both parties AND the media will try to make it about that. It's about policies, policies that help the average person while not demonizing an oppressed subset of the population. If Corbyn comes out strongly on a class based, anti-austerity platform that encompasses everybody currently living and working in the UK, he's got a shot IMO. That is what the Labour Party was originally constituted to do after all, stand up for working people. It's a "back to basics" type of thing. As far as I can tell, he would be the ONLY candidate and Labour would be the ONLY party to have this platform. All the rest basically are going to support austerity in one form or another and to a greater or lesser degree.
BTW, I know this is from April, but here's a poll from Business Insider (certainly no socialist publication ) that shows Labour ahead with the general public in an election matchup.
http://www.businessinsider.com/the-media-is-ignoring-the-fact-that-jeremy-corbyns-labour-is-pulling-ahead-in-the-polls-2016-4?r=UK&IR=T
OnDoutside
(19,945 posts)will absolutely go to town on him. They'll paint him all sorts of red, and drag up everything from his past, such as divorcing one of his wives because she wanted the son to go to a private school while he insisted on sending him to one of the crap Islington public schools, in his constituency. I've seen it before in the UK where they go at far left politicians like it was fox hunting.
BTW, I rail against "austerity". In my opinion, it is balancing the books. I have no problem with making sure that the rich pay more than they are paying but describing it as "austerity" is wrong.
malaise
(268,676 posts)Serious question
socialist_n_TN
(11,481 posts)Not only a serious question, but a good one too.
malaise
(268,676 posts)or that's what they keep telling us.
Donald Ian Rankin
(13,598 posts)The only hope for the survival of Labour as a viable party of government is a change of leader.
I am in no way being hyperbolic when I say that Corbyn poses an existential threat to it. If he remains, I think it is likely that most of the MPs will, not unreasonably, leave and set up their a new left-wing opposition party. The new party may or may not flourish (I fear it won't), but the old one will almost certainly wither.
socialist_n_TN
(11,481 posts)Actually this stunt by the Blairites pretty much guarantees a Tory win. Or maybe even a UKIP win. And quite frankly, I'm sure they're OK with that. They would rather see the Conservatives and even UKIP win the GE than for Corbyn to even have a CHANCE to run. His platform would be too poisonous to the "There is no alternative" mindset that they've adopted over the last 25 or so years.
Unless they stand down and work to defeat the Tories instead of trying to defeat the democratically elected leader of the Labour Party, there will be NO opposition to the Tories that can win a general election. Other than UKIP of course. And this is Including the new version of the SDP that will be constituted by the PLP.
socialist_n_TN
(11,481 posts)Donald Ian Rankin
(13,598 posts)That noise of applause you can hear? That's Mrs Thatcher clapping as you and your friends condemn us to 9 more years of Tory rule and the end of the NHS.
socialist_n_TN
(11,481 posts)And if they do "save" it, I expect it to be a hollowed out shell of what it was.
This is a choice between politicians who believe in austerity, either more or less, for the people and politicians who are going to unequivocally say "NO!" to austerity. That's is going to be the choice presented to the electorate. I know which side I would vote for if presented that choice.
malaise
(268,676 posts)We both know that the Blairites hate Corbyn - they just found an opportune moment
suffragette
(12,232 posts)Next week, isn't it?
Tony and the Blairites need to take their band elsewhere.
Off world would be my vote.
malaise
(268,676 posts)in the Hague - he's a war criminal
suffragette
(12,232 posts)After seeing many of his Brexit polls being posted here.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=7954511
Looks like he is a prime mover behind right wing policy and politicians in UK and Belize and pushes his agenda through pouring his ill gotten money into AstroTurf campaigns and propaganda.
Keep an eye out and a healthy distrust for anything coming from him.
sufrommich
(22,871 posts)Serves 'em right. You broke it,you bought it.
Lucinda
(31,170 posts)move forward with this after the vote. I wondered about the vague time reference to his leaving, but the consensus seems to be that he thought this would be the result.
malaise
(268,676 posts)There's blood everywhere.
Solly Mack
(90,758 posts)malaise
(268,676 posts)Clean up on all aisles
Aerows
(39,961 posts)but when I was a kid, I accidentally ran into a spaghetti sauce display. They had the Ragu structured like a pyramid, and the toe of my shoe caught one.
I was horrified. Spaghetti sauce came careening down, and showered my shoes, socks and shirt.
Biggest mess of broken glass, sauce and plain disaster you could imagine. I ran away from it to my mother. I was about 8, but I viscerally learned a big ass mess that day LOL
Anyway, that's what this mess reminds me of.
malaise
(268,676 posts)That must have been frightening for an eight year old
Aerows
(39,961 posts)It was a tall pyramid of Ragu. When it crashed down, there was spaghetti sauce literally *EVERYWHERE*.
I never did like Canal Villere after that incident. I'm pretty sure they didn't like me either!
malaise
(268,676 posts)That must have been something to behold.
Forgive me for laughing
Aerows
(39,961 posts)It was in a wide lane, so there was plenty of room for it to fly around. Epic disaster is not overstating it. Mom threw all of my clothes out and my shoes, too. It was so damn embarrassing.
malaise
(268,676 posts)The good news is that you didn't get cut - I'm trying to picture the scene
Aerows
(39,961 posts)tblue37
(65,215 posts)Aerows
(39,961 posts)but still, whoever set that up was a fool.
Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)Rex
(65,616 posts)My my my...the BritGOPers are just flailing all about! Trump has caused a hurricane of stupid! Could we be so lucky as to watch the Torres and the GOP disintegrate before our very eyes?
malaise
(268,676 posts)New World Order. The costs of their folly will continue to pile up for decades.
Rex
(65,616 posts)Created never ending warzones for the elite.
malaise
(268,676 posts)Rex
(65,616 posts)How ironic that their 1% backers are the folks who brought in cheap labor and took their jobs - then figured out they could find even cheaper workers overseas.
Rex
(65,616 posts)Okay, history does...all over the place. Back in the day it was just called indentured servitude. Not to far from that imo.
Oh wait...this is not back in the day...this is from 2015.
malaise
(268,676 posts)to Dickens
Rex
(65,616 posts)There won't be a hole deep enough to hide in. My theory is 'greed kills'.
malaise
(268,676 posts)You'd think they'd read the classic Fairy Tales, the 'fables', or Anderson.
BootinUp
(47,070 posts)Aerows
(39,961 posts)for the foreseeable future. Chaos.
Warpy
(111,124 posts)Friends in London, especially, are breathing a collective sigh of relief that Boris won't be PM; they have ample experience of him as mayor and are delighted he'll fade more into the background.
They're all resigned to getting some horror who's worse than Cameron was. They just hope elections are sooner rather than later.
Oh, and Labour is also doing its share of backstabbing and nights of the long knives, witness the epic fight of the Blair people against Corbyn.
white_wolf
(6,238 posts)Jesus, have the resurrected Thatcher herself?
socialist_n_TN
(11,481 posts)You still in this state?
whistler162
(11,155 posts)and US and UK dual citizen led fit to exit EU and limit immigration.
d_r
(6,907 posts)(I just like saying that)