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[47of74]

This message was self-deleted by its author (47of74) on Fri Jul 8, 2016, 09:16 PM. When the original post in a discussion thread is self-deleted, the entire discussion thread is automatically locked so new replies cannot be posted.

[monmouth4]

1. Many of us are thinking the same thing. Maybe we could get a group rate..n/t

[handmade34]

2. I will stay and fight

I will not give up

[fierywoman]

3. I lived that dream .

..I lived in Florence for a year, then 7 years in Venice. I was employed by the orchestras of the opera houses of those cities. Don't kid yourself about the supposed idyllic Italian life that tourists think is Italy. Living there is totally another matter. If you want to read about Italy's underbelly problems, try the Donna Leon murder mysteries that take place in Venice (Commissario Brunetti.) Keep in mind that there is an inherent subtle xenophobia in Italians, and that there is no word for "freedom" in the Italian language. As a foreigner, you would NEVER be accepted as a member of the culture.

[pipoman]

4. ...

[redstatebluegirl]

5. Or Canada...my husband was offered a job at a college there and I want him to take it.

I am tired of fighting the right wing and the racists.

[GoneOffShore]

6. And I would like to live in France. Despite the fact that there are enormous problems.

Yes, racism, sexism, Marine LePen.

But still, but still......

It would be difficult, but I would go.

I'm tired of this shit, the same way that I was tired of similar shit back in the 60's. Sometimes it just doesn't seem to make sense anymore. Actually, looking back over the past 20 plus years, none of it makes sense. We started to lose the thread when Nixon wasn't prosecuted and things went down hill from there.

Sure, we've had some victories, but it's two steps forward and three back. And occasionally four back.

Mrs GoS, who is twelve years younger than me, said the other day that she really didn't see the point of going on. That's scary coming from someone who is 56.

[GulfCoast66]

9. Well

If Mrs GoS had to work she might disagree. And if you are not a white, nominal Christian, better yet Catholic. Or atheists. I love France and could live there. Even can speak a little of the language. But there is way more sexism and open racism there than you would believe.

[GoneOffShore]

12. I know exactly how much sexism and racism exist in France.

And we both speak the language fairly well.

We have probably been 50+ times in the past 15 years.

And the nominal Christian, Catholic thing? Only time we've ever seen religious stuff is at festivals, and being accosted by JW's in Paris and Aix.

On edit: And where did you ever get the impression that we don't work? We have our own business and are working every day. And there is no retirement on the horizon. Even when we're in Europe we are working.

[GulfCoast66]

14. Sorry man

Never thought you did not work. And you have more French experience than I. And I am sure speak the language better. The last thing I want is to get into a feud with an American who loves France like I do.

I just often see post here from people who think Europe is a utopia. And I guess in many ways it is. I was just shocked when I finally went there for work rather than vacation that the folks could be as petty and bigoted as Americans.

I also could live there and if the finances would allow would definitely have a flat somewhere in rural France.

Again, I meant no insult.

Bonne Nuit.

[Katashi_itto]

7. I am looking at places to move to.

[yawnmaster]

8. I wouldn't leave the diversity of this country. I enjoy it too much. For comparison...

If you took two random individuals from Italy, there is only about a 5 - 10% chance that they would be ethnically different.
In the US there is about a 50% chance that any two random persons are ethnically different.

In the US there is about a 25% chance that any two random individuals are culturally different.
In Italy, on a 5% chance that two random people are culturally different.

I truly do understand how some would be uncomfortable with this, and how it might be a challenge, but I, personally, love it. And living in the bay area, I suspect those US probability numbers are a bit higher than the national average.

[Egnever]

15. I am with you

Despite our problems this country hosts an amazing diversity of humanity. I love the easy accessibility of differing cultures. There are very few places on earth where you can find the diversity available here. Of course you can also find pockets of total homogeneous communities but I also find those fascinating in their own ways.

[SheilaT]

10. I have likewise given some thought to leaving.

I honestly wonder if I could just move to Canada, rent an apartment, and just stay? How would I be found out? Okay, so my accent is obviously that of an American, and my whole history is in this country, but since we don't need a visa to go there, and as long as I maintain a valid U.S. passport I could go back and forth easily.

[EllieBC]

16. Not that easily.

If you are crossing frequently enough there will be questions by CBSA. And if you get caught they'll boot you out. They aren't just a friendly wave you through anymore. As a Canadian I can tell you there are rules and regulations. Canada, like every other country, isn't open door come on in. You have to prove you can support yourself (via a sponsor like a family member or a job), a needed skill, or have a hefty sum of cash to invest. If you can manage either, put in a PR application. It's faster from outside Canada though for it to be processed.

[LWolf]

11. I've been put in mind

of that old story about the two wolves, and which one we feed.

http://www.firstpeople.us/FP-Html-Legends/TwoWolves-Cherokee.html

Our culture thrives on hate. It shouldn't be a surprise to see the United States burning up with hatred. We've been whipped into a frenzy of hatred and its mirror, fear, over my lifetime.

It seems like every group, even those that supposedly don't hate, have at least one other group that their own culture tells them that they can legitimately, with permission, hate.

Liberals and conservatives hate each other. Capitalists and socialists. Democrats and Republicans. Right here on DU, Democrats and the Democratic Party are protected, but it's expected that one hates Republicans.

Racial and ethnic fear and hatred; religious hatred; gender hatred; sexual hatred, identity hatred, political hatred...the list is endless.

And it's augmented by our owned and controlled media. Even when we KNOW this, how many still legitimize that media by tuning in and then spreading the word?

Healing happens when we set hatred aside. We don't have to hate those we disagree with; more progress is made if we reach out to them, if we work to find and build on commonalities instead of keeping our focus on the differences that divide us.

That's true on the outside, in our country, and it's true within ourselves as individuals in our own little worlds.

[Brickbat]

13. It's always fun to live in a place as an outsider who isn't expected to go to GOTV or go to boring

policy meetings.

[Texasgal]

17. Italy has a very bad justice system

They are known for locking up thousands of innocent people! If you would like to talk about crooked cops, look up Italy! It's not what it is cracked up to be.

I agree that things here are awful right now, but I am not sure there is any place on this planet that is idealistic.