I ran into a Trump supporter today.

[GP6971]

I was out walking and have seen his Repuke signs over the years and finally met this guy. Older
guy, Nam vet. He had replaced his homemade Trump sign with an
official Trump/Pence sign.

Nice guy...but wouldn't even discuss anything when I asked him a very few neutral questions. It was a cordial conversation, but this guy has closed his mind.

That's my what we're up against. A mind set in concrete.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

1. He's probably part of the hard-core Trump supporters.

They will not be budged. EVER.

I don't think their numbers are very great, however.

[The_Casual_Observer]

2. A mind made of concrete.

[KamaAina]

3. Did you bother to ask for his insurance information?

[Buckeye_Democrat]

4. Full Frontal with Samantha Bee interviewed several of them...

... in tonight's episode.

Their opinions, in a nutshell...
1. Trump will easily win, but the election is "rigged" for Clinton.
2. The media NEVER brings up her private e-mail server, the Clinton Foundation or Benghazi... despite that's how they heard about those things.
3. Democrats plan to intimidate people at the polls, so they will watch out for that... and do it themselves.

They're walking, talking contradictions!

[pinboy3niner]

5. Ironically, vets like him would be shafted if Trump were elected

Trump's privatizarion plans would destroy the VA and leave vets with worse health care at higher cost.

Why No Veteran Should Ever Consider Voting for Trump
http://www.democraticunderground.com/12512471442

To bypass paywall and access the full linked article, google:

donald trump adviser signals plan to change veterans health care

[Wounded Bear]

19. Preach it, bro!

Actuallly, I don't think Trump gives a shit one way or the other, but Trump would surely not block the many Repub attacks on the VA and military personnel I would expect if they remain in power.

[ColemanMaskell]

6. Try just asking questions as if you are considering voting Trump and want to know more

The method is to try to draw them out with questions, as if you're interested in knowing more about how wonderful Trump is, and you just keep asking questions (escalating in small hesitant increments) until they trap themselves, and hopefully in the process of trying to explain it they actually think it through. It's a modified Socratic method.

Works with Jehovah's Witnesses too.

You have to know a lot about your subject though.

Typically they never admit defeat of course; they say they have to ask someone up-chain from themselves for more information; if you don't ever see them again after that, well, could be they've moved on in their thinking.

Sometimes they refuse to talk to you all right, but if the guy is standing there with a Trump sign and you ask for more information then it's hard for him to refuse to answer, at least if he thinks you might become a convert.

Admittedly Trump supporters at this point are a tougher nut to crack than Jehovah's Witnesses, though.

The trick is to align with them enough that they think they might bring you over. Anytime you betray yourself as diametrically 180 degrees opposite, they clam up (or attack).

Best of luck. It's a hard slog.

[rusty quoin]

7. I must be like a Trump supporter,

because I never listen to a Jehovah Witness. I say, no thanks.

[ColemanMaskell]

21. Maybe I didn't state that clearly.

I meant to indicate that one can handle Jehovah's Witnesses in the same way one handles Trump Supporters.

For example, ask a Jehovah's Witness who bought the Potter's Field, Judas, or the Priests? There are two versions of the story, one right at the end of "Acts of the Apostles" (aka Acts), and the other at the beginning of the very next book of the bible, pretty much the next page even. (Spoiler: In one version Judas buys the field (using the money he got for selling out Jesus), and then he falls headlong in the field and dies in it; in the other version Judas gives the money to the priests and then hangs himself, but the priests can't keep the money so THEY buy the Potter's Field with the money.)

Just an example.

Most brands of Christianity take it as a core belief that the bible is word-for-word verbatim truth, and cannot contain errors. I think it was supposed to have been dictated by you-know-Who. Yes, they believe that. So if you ask them a question like the one just shown, it stumps them, and forces them to question that core belief.

If you take a Jehovah's Witness off the job in this way, you're doing a public service.

Same method can be applied to Trump supporters. Ask them more about their beliefs. Since their beliefs are wildly inconsistent and make no sense, you should be able to bring them to a contradiction. You then ask them to explain the contradiction.

Remember that Star Trek episode where Kirk tricked a computer into self-destructing by confronting it with a contradiction? It's like that.

[davidn3600]

8. To be perfectly honest...Democrats don't give good answers either

I mean I'm sure you've seen the YouTube videos out there where people go out and ask them about the candidate they support and end up sounding clueless. Both Hillary and Trump voters are the same when it comes to that.

You can do it yourself. If you see someone who is a Trump voter or a Hillary voter, ask them why they support their candidate. I guarantee you 90% of the time the first answer they give you is an attack on the opponent. They know more about the opponent than the person they are supporting. And that's truly, I think, a sad state of our politics. It's no wonder nothing ever gets done anymore in Washington.

[Whiskeytide]

15. I genuinely believe that ...

... all of these "supporter on the street" videos - for both sides - are significantly edited for the effect desired. They likely have to ask 20 people questions to find one nutjob. The 19 fairly sane, rational and reasonable subjects end up on the cutting room floor.

[ColemanMaskell]

22. That certainly happens a lot

A lot of editing goes on in the videos

[treestar]

30. This

It is not going to be entertaining enough unless they do that.

[ColemanMaskell]

23. True, but the Trump "positions" are inherently contradictory in obvious ways.

The Dems have a fairly consistent set of ideas, at least at the HRC level. So that is much easier to defend. Her website is overflowing with statement positions that are essentially consistent, to the extent that the real world typically can be.

It is true, as you say, that an adherent, particularly a casual adherent, of any set of ideas does not necessarily understand the fine points of their system; it is also true that many people simply don't have a great command of language skills. So, yes, you can find people who fail in silly ways trying to defend any position, even questions about whether bears poop in the woods. Still, some positions are inherently easier to defend than others.

My allegation is that Trump's positions, such as they are, are inherently more difficult to defend, and an attempt to defend them logically should fall apart like a card house in a light breeze.

If the Trump Supporter's first answer is that they support Trump because <<<insert anti-Hillary slander>>> then you ask them why they think that, can they show you that? If they say Google it and brush you off, then you come back later and say you Googled it (go to Snopes.com or your favorite Fact-Checking website) and what you found is that Hillary isn't a clone, she isn't sick, the supposed Clinton hit list was a total fabrication because the fact checkers checked out a lot of the names and verified for each one that it could not possibly remotely have been attributed to a hit; Benghazi was not her fault, that's been investigated lots of times; the FBI declared the email investigation not worth pursuing -- it was a slap on the wrist essentially. So ask them to convince you why you should hate Hillary like they do. There are only a few trivial offenses they can point to, after DECADES of being investigated; if you whittle the case against her down to those, then it should be apparent that those few minor mistakes are not enough to justify the hatred.

One exception: If the Trump supporter is a misogynist then you probably won't be able to drag them back from that within the allotted time. That is true. Just as the die-hard racists will not be Obama supporters anytime soon.

[Warpy]

9. He's probably hated liberals since we fucked up his war

I've met quite a few of those, sad cases.

[flying-skeleton]

10. Correction

Mind set in concrete ... No.
Mind drowning in concrete ... Yes

[uponit7771]

11. It'll be hard for people to say they were wrong about this one

[madokie]

12. Just ain't enough of those to win an election with though

fuck'm

[tonyt53]

28. Most of us Vietnam vets are sick of the draft dodger.

[justiceischeap]

13. My previous neighbors daughter is a Trump supporter

It boggles the mind. She apppears intelligent and normal in every way (she doesn't live in the deplorable basket) but thinks he's a brilliant businessman. When I asked her about his multiple bankruptcies, she replied that that was just a business strategy. I asked if she thought that was the best type of strategy to employee for the US and she replied, seriously, "He wouldn't do that to the US." I shook my head and told her it seems the only strategy he seems to know when faced with financial difficulties.

[GOLGO 13]

14. He's probably a "Deplorable". They support him for his hatred but ashamed to discuss it.

Those people are "off the reservation" & not every coming back.

[Coyotl]

16. I met one too, first one this season for me, and she believes Hillary told a lie.

Didn't matter how long Trump's crime list is one iota, she believes Hillary told a lie and that was set in concrete too. It was as if she was hypnotized by Fox News.

[AwakeAtLast]

17. I was going to ask

If you backed up and did it again!

[Cakes488]

18. I sit next to one at work and we go at it....but the facts are on my side and I always have

a counter attack. Let's face it...we have a lot of ammunition. All the stories he sites are from these alt right rag wing websites....he can't corroborate any of the garbage he flings at me. He's a beaten man now...he doesn't even want to talk about it anymore..ahhahhhaha. He's never voted before and Trashbag got him all fired up but I believe he will end up staying home on election day. He knows his racist vote does not matter here in NYC.

[hughee99]

20. Out of curiosity, if a Trump supporter approaches you and wants to make "their pitch" how

open are you to listening to and honestly considering their ideas?

[ColemanMaskell]

25. as above: Yes, ask them to talk and lead them into self-contradictions, which lead to thinking

The way to convince them on an individual basis is by personal interaction. Let them talk. Ask for more details. Say hunh, how does that fit with X that you said a minute ago? Help me out here, I'm trying to understand . . .

This can lead them to question their belief system. It's you initiating the questions, but you lead them down a path once the questions are embedded in their minds.

[hughee99]

29. So you're not actually listening to them with an open mind. You're just waiting for an opportunity

to steer the conversation in the direction you want it to go. There's certainly no problem with doing that, but it's not the same as going into that conversation open minded.

[ColemanMaskell]

33. It's like a debate. They have the opportunity to present their case.

In the unlikely event that they come up with a rational argument I would listen to it. In the case where they're arguing for Trump, it is difficult to imagine that happening. But you would need to listen to what they say. You cannot lead someone into self-contradictions without first comprehending their statements that you're trying to get them to contradict.

Someone attempting to argue rationally in favor of a Trump presidency puts themselves at a substantial disadvantage, but if they somehow came up with a good argument I would certainly like to hear it. It would be pretty amazing.

[treestar]

31. come on

what ideas? Racism and xenophobia? We already know why they support him. Are you implying they have some valid point to listen to?

[hughee99]

32. So republicans need to be more open minded, but we already know what they're all about

so we don't.

Look, I'm not saying anyone should have to sit through that shit, but it seems a little hypocritical to complain that THEY are close-minded, but it's okay if we are, because we know we are right.

[nilesobek]

24. I met a Trump supporter,

he was my employer on a part-time job wrecking old trailers, installing new or used mobile homes etc.

This guy was off the chain! Two pints of cheap ass cinnamon whiskey consumed by noon. All the while driving a semi and running the backhoe.

His drunken bad breath, right-wing radio continually and concern for my safety made me quit this dude. His rants about politics were largely incoherent.

[ColemanMaskell]

26. Okay, that guy's probably beyond convincing via conversation

You have to get past the emotional thrashing and reach their logical brain (or the compassionate side of their emotional brain) -- If someone is sufficiently deep into a strongly negative emotional pit, the only thing that jolts them out of it usually is some kind of shock. So, yeah, some are beyond anything you're likely to be able to do to reach them.

[ColemanMaskell]

27. Despite my pro-Socratic-method arguments heretofore, here is something pretty funny on the topic

An Interview With A Trump Supporter, Otto Klavern

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/christopher-lamb/an-interview-with-donald-_b_11555316.html?

excerpt: **SATIRE **

Otto Zipp Klavern, a Donald Trump supporter, lives by himself in Yahoo, Florida, where he works as a door-to-door asbestos and lead-based paint salesman. Klavern says he loves America and hates what’s happened to it. He spends his weekends as a Confederate re-enactor.

When I interviewed Mr. Klavern, he was wearing a “Make America Great Again” cap.

Q: You believe Donald Trump will make America great again, don’t you, Mr. Klavern?

Otto Klavern: I’m wearing the cap, ain’t I?

Q: Yes, you are. How is Mr. Trump going to make America great again?

. . .
Q: You have a lot of faith in Mr. Trump, don’t you, Mr. Klavern?

Otto Klavern: He says the things that I’ve been thinking and nobody else in Washington has the guts to say...

Q: Because most of what he says is nonsense...

Otto Klavern: In my heart, I know he’s right.

Q: You know what his critics say, don’t you?

Otto Klavern: What’s that?

Q: In our guts, we know he’s nuts.

Otto Klavern: Anyone who criticizes Mr. Trump is a traitor.

Q: Mr. Trump says that criticism of him will be illegal when he’s president, isn’t that right?

Otto Klavern: Yup.

Q: So he’s going to make America great by ending free speech?

Otto Klavern: If that’s what it takes.

Q: Doesn’t that sound a bit, well, crazy?

Otto Klavern: Mr. Trump doesn’t care what you think. He’d rather be right than president.

Q: It doesn’t appear than he will ever be either, Mr. Klavern. Mr. Trump has said and done a lot of things that raise questions about his state of mind? Do you have any concerns about Mr. Trump’s mental state?

Otto Klavern: He’s as sane as I am.

Q: I have no doubt about that, Mr. Klavern. When did America quit being great?

Otto Klavern: (pause) When we started letting in all the immigrants.

Q: But hasn’t America always had immigrants? Wasn’t it founded by immigrants? Doesn’t the Statue of Liberty say, “Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free.”

Otto Klavern: That was before the huddled masses began taking our jobs.

Q: You sell asbestos and lead-based paint, is that right?

Otto Klavern: Yes.

Q: How’s business?

Otto Klavern: Not so good.

Q: Why is that?

Otto Klavern: Because of immigrants. What else could it be?

Q: If immigration is such a problem in the U.S., don’t you think the Statue of Liberty is sending the wrong message? Shouldn’t we take it down?

Otto Klavern: I don’t know about...

Q: What if Mr. Trump demands that the Statue of Liberty be removed from New York Harbor.

Otto Klavern: I’d be for it then.

Q: What if Mr. Trump wants to remove the torch from the Statue of Liberty and have her raise her middle finger at the rest of the world? That would make a pretty powerful statement to anyone thinking about coming here, wouldn’t it, Mr. Klavern?

Otto Klavern: If Mr. Trump wanted to do that, I’d be for it.
. . .
etc etc . . .
and so on. Funny guy Chris Lamb.

[rug]

34. Did you back up?

[GP6971]

35. Not sure I understand the question. n/t

[rug]

36. Well, after you run into one it's always a good idea to back up to make sure.

[GP6971]

37. LOL!

Didn't get it as I was walking.

[oberliner]

38. What were your neutral questions?

How come he didn't want to discuss anything? Did he know you were pro-Hillary?

[GP6971]

39. For the questions, I stayed on state level politics.

I asked what he thought about our state rep running for reelection.....he didn't know much about him. Same answer concerning our incumbent state senator.

He gave very evasive answers about ballot measures concerning minimum wage and limiting corporate money in politics. It was evident he didn't know their positions on them so I let it slide.

I didn't let on who we are supporting. Was a very nice and friendly guy. Just on the wrong side of the fence.

[oberliner]

40. Interesting

I'd be curious to know his reasons for supporting Trump.

[GP6971]

42. I live in an small town

so I usually stay away from discussing national politics. Overall, I would say the town is 60/40 repug.

My democratic state rep canvassed my little cul-de-sac the day after it was canvassed by our incumbent repug state senator's surrogates. I told her that they left after I told them that if they are a repug, then they support the orange man. They didn't like that and tried to say that he hasn't endorsed him. My position was guilt by association and they didn't like that and they so they left.

[oberliner]

46. Gotcha

That makes sense.

I guess it's sometimes better to avoid political discussions.

[kentuck]

41. They are very loyal to Trump.

They don't have much faith in the establishment Republican Party. Only time and/or circumstances will ever change their minds, it seems?

[GP6971]

44. I don't think this guy will change.

He's too set in his ways. He proudly displays his allegiance, but I don't think he would support insurrection. I just think he's uninformed.

[doodsaq]

43. Lack of critical thinking

All we can do is teach our kids critical thinking skills so that they don't end up like these poor, lost folks.

[GP6971]

45. The problem is

That generation (including me) were taught critical thinking. Where he lost it is beyond me.

My son was taught it.....my grandkids not so much.