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DonCoquixote

(13,616 posts)
Sat Oct 15, 2016, 06:01 AM Oct 2016

Dylan getting the Nobel: a bittersweet opinion

Now of course, there are many people mad he got this award: fans of names as diverse as Ngugi wa Thiong’o or Philip Roth felt snubbed. However, let me say this, whether you were in Nigeria, Japan, or New York, mad that your person did not win, you also know a Bob Dylan song that went beyond a mere tune. Like it or not, Dylan forced pop music to aspire to literary greatness, and yes, for every Bob Dylan song that was obviously not mean to be literature, there was a "Masters of War", or "Blowing in the Wind" that was. Literature, for all it's academic pretense, is the written word being applied to the life we live, to reflect life, and speak truth to life. Take a look how a simple song like "Maggie's farm" managed to inspire people from student strikes to Obama himself, when they took action against the people that song describes. If the purpose of the written word is to inspire people to think, act and make changes, then there can be no doubt that Dylan has done that. Aside from all the people inspired by the Music, there are people who think in terms of affecting the mind with the lyrics, the written word, something that was not absent from popular music before Dylan, but had a permanent stronghold in music thanks TO Dylan. And yes, Dylan's work echoed everywhere where there is protest: there is a reason three generations of different protesters can break out a Dylan song and be on the same page. When you get diverse people on that same page, that same thought, you have POWER, the power to unify thought that is the power of a written word. Dylan IS Literature, and his works will be studied by everyone from poets to politicians, because he stepped into a moment when the notion of popular culture itself was open for literature, and he forced popular culture to be open to the idea that yes, it could be literature too.

Now, that being said, here is the bitter part. First off, awards are often given not to reward, but to assimilate. Just like China allowed Dylan to play (albeit they told him the protest songs were out), the fact that Dylan has gotten so big means that the establishment does NOT consider him a threat. When the famously Euro-centric Nobel committee feels free to award ANY American, it means they feel confident that he is not a threat. Remember when the head of the Nobel committee said

"Of course there is powerful literature in all big cultures, but you can't get away from the fact that Europe still is the centre of the literary world ... not the United States," he told the Associated Press today."

The Eurocentric arrogance is the reason why many of the people who felt they were snubbed for Dylan are angry, one of the main rivals was a Nigerian, another Japanese. Let us not even touch the fact that Salman Rushdie is treated like a non person lest the Saudis threaten to spread money where it will do harm. So really, I do feel that Dylan is being used as a cover up, and it feels VERY cynical.

So, this reward, far from acknowledging the power of a good lyric to change a mind and inspire action, is the celebration of the fact that the world has learned to become immune to that power. Also, I do hate to engage in generational war, but is the fact that Dylan was considered one of the examples of the Baby Boomers glory not part of the show? We are in an election in America where two Baby Boomers both argue that they are willing to go to war, and many of their counterparts in Europe also speak of war, and now, Dylan gets a nobel.

Last thing. If the Nobel is going to recognize the power of song lyrics to be literature, let us hope that they remember this in the future. Frankly, considering that Dylan took a lot from both Leadbelly and Woody Guthrie, it will be telling of those two do NOT get some reward. Am I saying that maybe ten years from now, a Bob Marley might get it, or hell, 50 years hence, a Tupac Shakur? Not likely, but a lot of that will have to do with the fact some complexions get connections, others don't. If the Nobel wants to lead humanity, it will need to reflect humanity, and no, the occasional woman or occasional Asian ever few decades won't cut it.

13 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Dylan getting the Nobel: a bittersweet opinion (Original Post) DonCoquixote Oct 2016 OP
William Trevor does not have a Nobel Prize AngryAmish Oct 2016 #1
While I have no doubt... Mike Nelson Oct 2016 #2
I would go with this DonCoquixote Oct 2016 #3
I think the Nobel is only awarded to living artists. thucythucy Oct 2016 #8
Thank you... Mike Nelson Oct 2016 #9
Yeah, if "Chronicles" and "Tarantula" thucythucy Oct 2016 #10
Only other one... Mike Nelson Oct 2016 #12
First of all, murielm99 Oct 2016 #4
when the nobel head said DonCoquixote Oct 2016 #6
Maybe Dylan ,,,, Cryptoad Oct 2016 #5
FWIW: I don't think the Nobel is awarded posthumously aikoaiko Oct 2016 #7
TL:DR. The award is a joke. Dreamer Tatum Oct 2016 #11
the very act of giving an award DonCoquixote Oct 2016 #13
 

AngryAmish

(25,704 posts)
1. William Trevor does not have a Nobel Prize
Sat Oct 15, 2016, 06:49 AM
Oct 2016

And it is too late for O D B.

Nobel Prize Committee put themselves on the pay no mind list.

Mike Nelson

(9,944 posts)
2. While I have no doubt...
Sat Oct 15, 2016, 06:53 AM
Oct 2016

...Dylan is deserved, I did wonder - Why not Woody Guthrie? Why not Leadbelly or Hank Williams? How about Chuck Berry and Johnny Cash? Is this a one-shot or do the floodgates open? Maybe they should use the attention given Dylan to open a new category.

DonCoquixote

(13,616 posts)
3. I would go with this
Sat Oct 15, 2016, 07:05 AM
Oct 2016

even though it would allow the Euros to say "oh, this is for lesser forms of literatue." Until of course Paul McCartney or Jacques Brel got it

thucythucy

(8,038 posts)
8. I think the Nobel is only awarded to living artists.
Sat Oct 15, 2016, 10:08 AM
Oct 2016

So Guthrie, Leadbelly, Hank Williams, Johnny Cash would all be out.

I don't think Chuck Berry--much as I might like his music--ever wrote anything on a level with "Mr. Tambourine Man," "A Hard Rain's A-Gonna Fall," "The Lonesome Death of Hattie Carroll" or "Desolation Row."

I think Thomas Pynchon should be considered as the next honoree, if they're thinking of another American. Mary Oliver too.

Edited to add: There is also the fact that Dylan, aside from being a songwriter, is also the author of "Chronicles, Vol. I" which stands on its own as a memoir (I think it won the National Book Award) and "Tarantula" which is an extended prose poem on a par with Rimbaud's "A Season in Hell" (but much funnier). There's also the fact that he's an accomplished sculptor, welding scrap metal into rather stunning metal gates. I never much cared for his film making ("Renaldo and Clara&quot though "Eat the Document" has some interesting moments.

Mike Nelson

(9,944 posts)
9. Thank you...
Sat Oct 15, 2016, 10:24 AM
Oct 2016

...for the informative reply! I don't think Dylan's books or film appearances are worthy of the Prize. I agree on Thomas Pynchon. The Crying of Lot 49 is one of my all-time favorites.

thucythucy

(8,038 posts)
10. Yeah, if "Chronicles" and "Tarantula"
Sat Oct 15, 2016, 10:29 AM
Oct 2016

were all he'd written, I doubt the Nobel committee would have considered him.

But they do add to his luster, much as Mary Oliver's prose works deepen my appreciation of her poetry.

"The Crying of Lot 49" is amazing, along with "V" "Gravity's Rainbow" and "Slow Learner." I couldn't get into "Vineland," I should try it again sometime.

Have you ever read Pynchon's "A Journey into the Mind of Watts"? An amazing piece of in-depth journalism.

The man is another one of those folks who is brilliant at everything he tries. His appearance on "The Simpsons" was also a hoot.

Best wishes.

murielm99

(30,717 posts)
4. First of all,
Sat Oct 15, 2016, 07:14 AM
Oct 2016

Dylan is not a baby boomer. He is from the generation before them. It does not matter what generation he is from, but what generations he has inspired and will continue to inspire. That is the power of literature, no matter what form it takes. Its universality continues to inspire years after it was written.

The generation before the boomers felt they had to go to war. If two boomers feel they have to go to war, look at the circumstances they have inherited, not the years of their birth.

Of course Dylan learned from Leadbelly and Guthrie, but he took inspiration from Dylan Thomas as well, and very pointedly and pompously took his name. Dylan is not perfect. He is human.

The Nobel does reflect humanity. You seem to be a bit too callow to recognize that yet.

DonCoquixote

(13,616 posts)
6. when the nobel head said
Sat Oct 15, 2016, 07:26 AM
Oct 2016

"europe is the center"

That showed a blatant disrespect for others, which show in the lack of both women and non whites. There is nothign callow about the fact that for some organization that claims to reflect humanity as a whole, that many good authors are overlooked because they are not yet another European that makes Europeans feel good about themselves, and therefore Euro Americans too by proxy.

aikoaiko

(34,162 posts)
7. FWIW: I don't think the Nobel is awarded posthumously
Sat Oct 15, 2016, 07:54 AM
Oct 2016

If that helps to answer some of your questions such as why not Woody or will Tupac.

Dreamer Tatum

(10,926 posts)
11. TL:DR. The award is a joke.
Sat Oct 15, 2016, 10:29 AM
Oct 2016

The literature award has a long history of awarding writers, not people who write. There is a difference. I can name without much thought 25 writers who deserve the prize and who will probably never win it. I guess now they can hope for a Grammy now, huh?

And if he's a poet, great - how many poets were snubbed?

I know I'm supposed to feel charmed and enchanted that a folk singer won a Nobel, but he doesn't deserve it.

DonCoquixote

(13,616 posts)
13. the very act of giving an award
Sat Oct 15, 2016, 04:14 PM
Oct 2016

will be a snub to someone. If De Niro gets on Oscar, Pacino won't, etc. If Jane Fonda does not get the Oscar, Streep might, etc. It might be possible for the award to evolve into something that focuses more on aiding the development of artists, rather than as a trophy.

All the same, if the purpose of great literature is to inspire, it is hard to argue that Dylan did not. We are not talking pretty tunes, but the sort of lyrics that emerge in everywhere from political speeches to novels to films.

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