1.8 million dead people still on the voters rolls??

[kentuck]

Obviously, they can no longer vote.

But, there are those who seem to believe that as soon as their beloved uncle dies, they worry that someone is going to get his name and vote in his name. For real?

Do we have no more faith in the common citizenry?

I would tend to think that someone who would ever think of such an idea would be a very small minority, perhaps in single digits. We should note that very few elections end up in single digits. It is very rare.

However, I tend to think it is almost non-existent. At the very most, it would make a difference in very few elections, almost nil, in my opinion.

[treestar]

1. and certainly not the POTUS election

if there was fraud in the past it was likely to be local elections.

[kentuck]

3. That is very true.

Where do these people come from?

[treestar]

4. from under some rock where they don't

understand each state runs its own elections!

[NightWatcher]

2. More than half of registered voters do not vote in each election

Some are dead, some are fake names, but most are just indifferent.

[treestar]

5. I wonder that they don't clear the voter rolls

of everyone who gets a death certificate. That would certainly be possible now.

They must do some culling, or people who died in 1950 would still be on the rolls.

[livetohike]

8. I work at the polls in PA and the county election board

told us that the family has to bring in a copy of the death certificate and then they can legally remove their name from the book. So we pass that info on to voters when they are signing in and notice their loved one is still on the list of registered voters.

[treestar]

9. Thanks, that is interesting

Kind of one more thing to do when someone dies.

[MH1]

11. That's true, but now the Dept. of Health is supposed to notify the BOE as well.

I'm sure there's some that get missed, but generally speaking, people who die in PA do get taken off the voter list.

[LiberalFighter]

51. In our state they are removed if they die in-state.

They need confirmation.

[treestar]

52. that's true

people move to other states, too and so it would take a national database.

And all the people still living who moved to another state. I suppose they take people off when they have not voted in a long time.

[LiberalFighter]

54. It is a difficult process to handle deaths in other states.

That is too much of a work load for even a state to handle when there are 50 states and D.C. and some die overseas too.

They do remove voters off when they follow the process using the Post Office. I imagine some states do better than others.

[kentuck]

6. I would think they would have the technology to clean up the rolls?

If someone does not vote within a 4-year period, they should be dropped from the rolls and would need to re-register. I think that could be very easily done? (Take it down to Hwy 61)

[livetohike]

10. Here in PA they are still in the book and marked "Inactive". If that voter

shows up, they have to show ID to vote.

[kentuck]

13. I could understand the need for an ID in a situation such as that.

Otherwise, let people vote. That's the American way !

[livetohike]

16. We just check to make sure they are still living in the precinct.

The more people who vote the better!

[chelsea0011]

29. We get a census request from the town we reside in evry couple of years. If you

don't respond you are dropped from the voter list. The census form requires to list all household members. You can respond to the request and if you don't vote you are never dropped from the voter list. you only get dropped by not responding to census.

[LiberalFighter]

57. That step alone does not remove your voters from the roll in Massachusetts.

The NVRA requires a forwardable mailing notice sent out to the voter.

In our state a mailing is sent out to everyone. If the state or county receives a notice from the Post Office of a change of address another mailing is sent out to them before they will remove them.

[chelsea0011]

68. That is correct. Another mailing is sent out.

[LiberalFighter]

53. I would disagree with you on removing them if inactive for 4 years.

There are procedures that must be followed for inactive voters before they can be removed.

Technology should be used more efficiently to keep lists updated. Such as when a voter changes their address at the BMV, has their drivers license turned in because they have a license in a different state.

[saidsimplesimon]

7. K&R I agree.

Your avatar reminds me of a greeting card. Please refresh my memory. I believe she was an artist who created inspirational messages?

[kentuck]

14. I don't know. I got it off DU's list...

a long time ago.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

12. Most states don't seem to have any good mechanism

for removing registered voters who've died or even moved.

Some states, if you haven't voted in two or three cycles, will drop you, but not all do so. I suspect that every time I've moved and registered in a different state, my old registration didn't go away for at least four years.

I really doubt very many people are voting on behalf of the dead. Not to mention, every single time I read of voter fraud -- someone registering his dog, or registering both in the state he lives in the the state where he owns a business, invariably it's Republicans who do this. No wonder they are so worried about voter fraud, because they engage in it every chance they get.

[kentuck]

15. I think that is an excellent point!

They think of voter fraud because they are more likely to engage in it.

[milestogo]

23. Where I vote there are the same election judges time after time,

Republicans and Democrats. They know how many people turn out for primaries and general elections, and they know a lot of the names and faces.

If the same person showed up twice on voting day, the judges are likely to notice - and now that an id is required you would have to have your dead neighbor's id - which looks like you - in order to get away with it. Could one person get away with stealing a vote? Possibly, if they really went to a lot of trouble. Could hundreds of people do it in a single precinct? Doubtful.

Could thousands of people from the same party do it on the same day with nobody noticing at the precinct level? Very doubtful.

[duncang]

34. IIRC

I can't remember the full details, but one that is roaming around in the back of my mind was a repub who had multiple houses in different states. (I think it was 10) And by mail in ballot voted in each state. Maybe someone here can confirm, debunk, or remembers the whole story.

[LiberalFighter]

59. There was a Republican a couple of years ago that did it in Wisconsin and Indiana.

http://archive.jsonline.com/news/crime/shorewood-man-charged-with-13-counts-of-voter-fraud-b99297733z1-264322221.html

[duncang]

65. Thank you

A few of my brain cells seem to still work.

[LiberalFighter]

58. Some of it is because those involved are not trained properly.

The federal form provides a place to fill out if you were registered someplace else. Which should cancel your previous registration.

States have a place to include old address and if there is an address change.

At the very least when someone moves to another state and they surrender their old out-of-state license the BMV and Voter Registration in the old state should be notified.

For in-state address change when they update their drivers license it should be automatic for voter registration.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

62. For some reason, I can't recall seeing that

any of the times I've moved to a new state and registered again. Probably a simple memory fail.

[LiberalFighter]

66. Check your state's form.

Here is what it is for Indiana.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

69. You are right. I just looked at the form for the state

I currently live in, and it does include a place to write where you'd been previously registered.

Serious memory fail on my part.

[LiberalFighter]

72. It is easily overlooked I think.

[BlueStreak]

17. It has always been this way. Dead people tend not to call the election board

to take themselves off the rolls. I believe in my area, if you don't vote 3 elections is a row, they take you off.

But it is a felony to impersonate anybody else, including dead people, in order to place a vote. And there are about 10 cases of that nationally every decade.

[former9thward]

18. Why would you think this never happens?

Some dead vote in Chicago. It comes up every election. They don't mean anything in a POTUS election because IL is a blue state. But the machine wants to make sure its local candidates win. Very easy to do with mail in voting and absentee voting. Strange you would think that precinct workers whose very jobs with the city or county depend on securing enough votes would not do what needs to be done. Ask yourself why in Chicago has the machine been able to beat down liberal and progressive candidates for alderman and other positions.

About 3 million people die in the U.S. every year. Most of who were registered voters. I would be very surprised if only 1.8 million were on the voter lists. That sounds low. No one tells the board of elections when someone dies.

[kentuck]

19. No system is perfect, I would agree.

And I don't doubt that it probably happened in Chicago.

But every place is not Chicago.

In my humble opinion, we should just accept the fact that dead people are not going to vote.

[WinkyDink]

48. Exactly HOW is this so "easy" to commit fraud by mail and/or absentee voting? I'm interested in the

particulars, so when I say "exactly," that's what I mean.

Otherwise, you're just posting Republican talking-points.

[LiberalFighter]

61. No one tells the board of elections when someone dies?

That is not true.

This site says otherwise. http://www.ncsl.org/research/elections-and-campaigns/voter-list-accuracy.aspx

And my state relies on the board of health within each county reporting deaths.

There are holes in the system.

[spanone]

20. trump pulls this shit out of his ass and spouts it like it's gospel.

[Thunderbeast]

21. Another reason to implement Vote by Mail

Vote by Mail requires the voter signature to be verified against the registration signature. If the match is uncertain, the Elections Office rejects the ballot (provisionally) and give the voter an opportunity to resolve the issue.

Dead people would have some difficulty with this provision.

[WinkyDink]

47. This signing is done in person in PA polling places. No need to mail anything.

[Marthe48]

22. In 2012, my husband's uncle early voted

He passed away from cancer at 11:00 AM election day. I've wondered since if someone early votes and unfortunately passes before the actual election day, should the vote count? Or not?

[milestogo]

24. I've never heard of a valid vote being invalidated due to death.

If someone goes to a poll and votes, then dies of a heart attack in the parking lot, the vote counts - because it was valid at the time they placed the vote.

[Marthe48]

25. That;s a good example

Clears it up for me

[LiberalFighter]

64. If that was election day it would be valid in every state.

[Awsi Dooger]

27. Similar with my father

He died on October 20, 2012, less than a week after sending in an absentee ballot. I mailed it after he filled it in from the intensive care unit. Dad had pulminary fibrosis so we knew there was no hope of a cure.

About a week after the election the Miami Herald ran a column regarding votes that were excluded due to death of the voter prior to election day. I believe there were 8 locally. I contacted the reporter. He thoughtfully looked into the specifics and told me that dad's ballot had indeed counted.

From your description there's no reason the vote from your husband's uncle shouldn't have counted.

[LiberalFighter]

63. It depends on the state a person lives in.

South Dakota and Indiana they do not. Florida, California, Texas, Tennessee, Ohio, and West Virginia apparently do.

It depends on the reporting system in place to identify whether a voter is deceased by the time of the election.

[lindysalsagal]

26. This comes as no surprise to me.

It's not a local government priority to update the rolls monthly, or even annualy, if at all.

Means nothing. Another empty meme.

[dflprincess]

40. Minnesota bumps voters rolls up against the Social Security death index

and registries periodically.

My mom died in May of 2012 one of her neighbors was always an election judge in their precinct so I asked her to see if Mom was still listed in November 2012. I had heard the state was pretty efficient at cleaning things up so I checked just so I could use the story when someone complains about dead people voting.

Mom's name had indeed been removed.

(And fortunately we have same day registration so if a mistake is made it can be fixed on election day.)

[dalton99]

35. Hillary uses charter buses to take them from the cemeteries to the polls

[LisaL]

43. And unlike live people, dead can vote six times each!

[pwb]

56. That is funny.

[enid602]

41. dead voters

When you have 200 million registered voters, 1.8 million dead ones is not surprising, given that people do tend to die eventually. When someone dies, you might notify Social Security, the IRS and creditors, but I don't think most would contact voter registration.

[Odin2005]

42. This is an old worry going back to the 1960 Election.

Back then there were a lot of claims that JFK won because of "dead people voting in Chicago", and ever since the Republicans have invoked it constantly.

[Bucky]

45. several of the OVER THIRTY cases of documented voter fraud have involved dead registered voters

and that's out of a mere billion votes cast!!

[whistler162]

71. Are you counting Ann Coulter's case in that?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/brad-friedman/ann-coulter-to-face-vote-_b_753671.html or is she alive? Hard to tell!

[WinkyDink]

46. I live in No-ID PA. Were I to try to vote as, say, dead Jane Doe, I'd better have Jane Doe's SIG-

NATURE down pat----

and just HTH would I know that? AND I'd better hope that none of her neighbors saw me.

Trump is committing evil by aiming to convince Americans that Democrats are out to steal the vote.

[MH1]

67. THANK YOU.

The idea that there would be any significant number of people fraudulently voting for other people, is just silly, in PA. I can believe that it did happen decades ago in certain wards of Philadelphia. Or that in a close local election someone might be stupid enough to try it, if they think a couple votes might matter. But on a large scale to swing a national election? No effing way.

[whistler162]

70. The November 6th episode of the

Walking Dead!

[Raine]

73. In 2008 my father voted absentee in the primary but died a week or so later

he was sent a ballot for the GE because he was still on the voter's roll. The next election two years later he wasn't sent a ballot because he (obviously) didn't vote in the 2008 GE. When you don't vote in the GE you're automatically removed.

[beachbumbob]

77. There is no national clearing house for tracking deaths...it even difficult

For social security to keep updated..so voting rolls are lagging....there are many safeguards in place

[ChairmanAgnostic]

78. Why is this a surprise?

Local gov budget cuts have been going on for 20 years, ever since trickle down became our economic policy. This is the easiest place to cut still is a rare event that happens every couple of years, and only lasts for a few weeks.

Culling out dead people from voting lists is hardly on the top ten of any policy todo list. Fixing bridges, solving child health care emergencies, and more are far more important.

[Hekate]

79. Unaddressed by the media: How many die in the US every year?

How many are adults of voting age, and citizens, and registered to vote? Do the concern trolls imagine that doctors and funeral homes are tasked with notifying the Registrars of Voters in every county and state that someone has died, so that the deceased can be removed from the rolls immediately?

I mean, what kind of thought process is it that comes up with this "problem" and these spurious figures?

It would be good journalism to address these questions, at the very least.

[WinkyDink]

80. Removal for not voting for a while: Statement by League of Women Voters (Ohio):

http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/local/2016/09/23/voter-roll-purge-ruling.html

A group of voting rights advocates praised the ruling as restoring voting rights to people wrongly dropped from the registration rolls simply because they hadn't voted in recent years.

“We’re pleased the court recognized that voter inactivity is not sufficient reason to block properly registered voters from making their voice heard in this year’s presidential election," said Carrie Davis, executive director of the League of Women Votes of Ohio.

Ohio Democratic Party Chairman David Pepper said the appeals court ruling "reaffirms a basic principle: voters shouldn’t lose their right to vote simply because they vote infrequently. The court found that (Husted) has spent years purging Ohio voters for exactly that reason, in clear violation of federal law.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

All U.S. states periodically cleanse their voter rolls, but only a handful remove voters simply because they don’t vote on a regular basis.
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-votingrights-ohio-insight-idUSKCN0YO19D
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~