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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsI think I may have lost family over this election.
I have no kids and am very close to my niece. She is like a daughter to me and always has been. She is married to a guy I always thought was wonderful. I knew he was going to vote for Trump and I have tried to sway him - but it is family and you make allowances to keep peace and maintain relationships.
Then yesterday, he liked a post on facebook that showed Hillary's face on a bullseye target and I lost it. I told him it was beneath him and that I was ashamed of him and that it was one thing to not like Hillary, but this was unAmerican and an embarrassment to every American.
No response. As a matter of fact, no one else that was commenting on the thread has even responded. They were all pro Trumpers. I don't think I changed any minds or anything but I could not let this indecency go unchallenged.
There must be some way to reach these people. I know you will find it hard to believe, but this is a kind, decent hardworking man. I just could not believe it. How can we reach these people? Not for this election - but just on the basis of basic human decency. I am so aggravated I could scream. My best friend tells me you cannot fix stupid - but we have got to.
sharp_stick
(14,400 posts)and I hope that sanity will return when Trump gets sent back to the odious shitpile he owns in New York. Some of his supporters have just lost any sense of decency. I've lost a lot of respect for some people and it's going to be hard for them to get it back.
SummerSnow
(12,608 posts)Pacifist Patriot
(24,653 posts)I give way too many second changes. I need to tattoo this quote on my wrist or something.
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)"change my mind and get me to support Republicans," it has not been successful. On Wednesday when Hillary has been elected as president it will be a gift to Republicans, a Trump presidency would set the GOP back, we are their savior.
still_one
(92,176 posts)nearest Democratic campaign office. There is call banking into swing states, and other things that you can do.
As to your family, avoid discussing politics. If they bring it up, I wouldn't waste time engaging with them on it. They are still your family, and you just need to avoid issues where you are not going to ever see eye to eye with them on.
The hard cold truth is that this election is a referendum on racism and sexism.
While some may try to rationalize other reasons for not voting for Hillary, that is bottom line.
Jerry442
(1,265 posts)...how can you ever unsee that?
I don't think you can ever forget it.
woodsprite
(11,912 posts)I always had a contentious relationship with my MIL but I made it work, made concessions, until Johnny Cochran developed brain cancer. I couldn't believe the vehemence in her voice saying that he deserved brain cancer because he dared to represent OJ at trial. I was going through my own cancer bout at that time (uterine cancer) so it especially hit home with me. I told her that no one, NO ONE, ever deserved cancer. Then I gathered my husband, kids, and went home. I was livid. Still am.
Needless to say I'm not looking forward to our family get together for xmas since it will be so soon after the election and we're the only part of the family who are Democrats. I'm sure someone is going to try and push my buttons, but I will try my darnedest to keep civil.
milestogo
(16,829 posts)I had a friend/neighbor that used to take care of my dog. We were close, but we never talked about politics.
After she moved we kept in touch via email... She put me on the list of people that she forwarded emails to... most of them were from her right wing relatives and they were utterly ridiculous. Obama's going to destroy social security. Jokes about Ted Kennedy and Chappaquiddick. The Clintons murdering Vince Foster. At first I tried to argue with her, but it did me no good at all.
I asked her to take me off her list and she did. Now we no longer keep in touch.
Lifelong Protester
(8,421 posts)It hurts, I know, I lost family over 2012.
With all the gun violence, I don't think anyone needs to use that imagery. Even if you are against someone.
world wide wally
(21,741 posts)yardwork
(61,599 posts)I think that we must challenge this kind of thing. As President Obama has said, terrible things are being normalized by the Trump campaign. We have to send a message to our fellows that this is not ok.
gratuitous
(82,849 posts)Good for you for speaking up. It's possible you've lost your niece and her husband, but it's also possible that once the volume gets turned down a little bit, and they aren't subjected to the endless anvil hammering, they will (sort of) forget how virulently they're supposed to hate Hillary Clinton. The volume is still way up on President Obama, but even now you can see a bit of softening as he enters the last two months of his administration. I predict that by January 2018, there might even be nice things said on Fox about Obama, a grudging acknowledgment that he wasn't the antichrist they said he was for eight years.
bmpbmp
(310 posts)In a GA suburb...
Him: You voting for Trump?
Me: Nope.
<Pause>
Him: You're not voting for Hillary.
Me: Yup.
<Pause>
Him: I'm canceling your vote then.
Me: Works for me.
This cycle/campaign has been beyond anything I'd ever thought I'd experience as an American. I don't think America can get through another one like this.
niyad
(113,275 posts)Frank Cannon
(7,570 posts)From all the crazed right-wingers I grew up with.
The only response I've had is, "You're right. I guess it's a good thing that there are a LOT more people voting in this election than just you and me; because if it were just us, it would be a tie."
Divine Discontent
(21,056 posts)It's ALWAYS about them... as you know. Always!
The deplorables that support him are not hard to figure out, nor is he! They are the bloviating asshat inside the gas station that sounds like someone you hope to never see again. Yet, when you head out to your car, they're on the other side of the gas island, cursing about Obama and Hillary.
They're the guy who bumps your car from behind and says it's your fault for slowing up too quickly, and when you do the same 5mph bump into them they explode on you, and call you an idiot!
They're the amazing parent who says your kid is a troublemaker and it's not their fault that their son beat up your son after yours tried to defend a girl the idiot was sexually harassing at school. And, when your son gets numerous awards and scholarships, he tells his son, "of course, the teachers are liberals, so they aren't going to be fair to you. They're giving it all to that ass-kissing girlie man!"
We meet these people every week in activities and think, good heavens, get me and my friends/family away from that moron ASAP...
So, naturally, they're the type to ask others if they're voting for Trump then say, well I'm canceling your vote!
Idiots.
FSogol
(45,481 posts)vote for HRC. So, good luck and I'll think about you on Wednesday morning.
That's what you should have said.
peabody
(445 posts)Facebook too and they post all sorts of misinformation. Here's what I do and it seems to be working--at least in my case:
1) I generally don't reply to their posts but instead start posting my own pro-Hillary mems just to let them know that there are other points of view out there (and to jab them a little).
2) I unfollowed some of them.
So far, I've stayed in touch with them but I don't have to read all their crap and, if they don't unfollow me, they get a taste of my progressive point of view.
Algernon Moncrieff
(5,790 posts)I've had DUers ask "why/how do you have those kind of friends?"
1) You don't pick your family
2) You often don't pick your co-workers
3) People have common interests other than politics
4) Old friends change - some for the worse.
One of the things that is making life really difficult in America is that there are increasingly self-created factual realities. If we can't agree on what facts are, then it's difficult to have further discourse.
I see fifty-something whites on Facebook insisting that Trump will win because "I know no one who is voting for Clinton." The problem: they know almost no one of color. They see things in a very narrow view. Then again, I suppose we all do.
Warpy
(111,253 posts)and he wants to hit back. You said your piece. Now let it go.
Continue to love your niece. Be civil to the blockhead she married. It's all you can do.
rusty fender
(3,428 posts)You could apologize, saying that you may have been a little harsh in your criticism. Then you say that violence is never the solution and the bullseye on Hillary shocked and saddened you beyond your deepest fears.
Your nephew-in-law may not know how devastating to our country that a presidential assassination can be; he needs a history lesson and you probably are the only person, right now, to give it to him.
egduj
(805 posts)Better luck with your next one.
Bonx
(2,053 posts)well, maybe an hour.
Divine Discontent
(21,056 posts)mgardener
(1,816 posts)That was unacceptable behavior on his part.
Things may calm down after the election, but you may have to make a decision about what behaviors you can and cannot deal with.
Good Luck!
lostnfound
(16,176 posts)Most people deep down don't want to be haters. It's a cult that has brainwashed people.
Evangelical cousins voting for trump, Facebook is being used to breed hatred. Weird thing is they don't even see the degree to which their holier-than-thou attitude contradicts their obvious, seething, undiluted hatred.
Response to prarie deem (Original post)
nini This message was self-deleted by its author.
Divine Discontent
(21,056 posts)"ya know, like most sane people try to do!"
Response to Divine Discontent (Reply #47)
nini This message was self-deleted by its author.
Divine Discontent
(21,056 posts)working class and poor disabled and underpaid FT workers who receive little in their paycheck and meager benefits, but turns around and seeks massive tax cuts for the wealthy. They all seem just fine with that! lol
And yes, my old pastor is only about abortion. His daughter said, dad there's a hundred other things that effect those already here that harms their lives, and the GOP is not helping regular Americans. Doesn't matter, all abortion, all the time. I don't want abortions anymore than anyone else, but it's a woman's right to decide what to do with what is attached to her body, not mine.
Response to Divine Discontent (Reply #55)
nini This message was self-deleted by its author.
Divine Discontent
(21,056 posts)the more you spill, the more I'd (me personally) would write them all a you disrespect how the union has helped you all, and now that you've got yours. Reminds me of a lesbian woman I know who about 10 years ago said she hated gays out marching in parades yelling for equal marriage and how they made life more miserable for her. I went off. I said, oh big surprise, you've got a girlfriend FINALLY in your life after being closeted and fully in denial for 35 years, and now you're spouting stupidity about people who have helped lesbians have a fair chance of living a happy life in the large city you live in. She's a republican - naturally - of course!!! Just like her parents, who sent her for corrective therapy when they noticed she didn't date boys... they knew - she pushed it so far down, she didn't even want to believe it. But, boom, a person changes her life, and she hates the loud gays causing her to look embarrassed with her rightwing dad who loves her, but don't be making out!
Response to Divine Discontent (Reply #69)
nini This message was self-deleted by its author.
Kashkakat v.2.0
(1,752 posts)something like " I almost wish I was a conservative so I could vote for him."
Its an honest statement - he is likeable. Appears to be aconservative with a heart and conscience.... and it looks possible he might actually win Utah thx to the Mormon vote ... which would really send a message.
I think my mom, and maybe sibs ARE really struggling with Drumpf's being such a complte and utter jerk - and NOT a man of God in the least... maybe getting them to vote independent is about as good as it gets - they are not going to vote for Hilary.
dawnie51
(959 posts)and there wasn't that much family to begin with. There just comes a point where you can't stomach the bullshit anymore. It's hard to realize that people you've laughed with, holiday-ed with, celebrated and grieved with are unknown to you, but there it is. You don't know them, not really, and you have to take care of yourself. In the long run, it's better for your mental health to let them go.
Divine Discontent
(21,056 posts)so many of them are right wing pricks, and a good chunk of them use the govt social net in some manner, and yet they remain loyal the party who would strip it away if they could get 7 or 8 more senators than they have now, and a repub president. I said why not tell them all on Monday evening that Trump is a disgusting person who none of us would have ever approved of when we were growing up as being "president" material, nor having the maturity to handle adversity and that his own people have to keep him off twitter! Then include the 1 minute Hillary video that shows his bad behavior and just let them unfriend you if they want. These are mostly people who he doesn't know that well, so who cares what these people think? Have they been there for him as a friend time and again? 95% of them, no! So, just like family who are cold and nasty - cut those types out, and just be respectful if you must see them at required events, but don't initiate convo, and be polite but short if asked anything.
ginnyinWI
(17,276 posts)You won't change anyone's mind, not unless they are undecided and willing to have a reasonable conversation. When they post pics like that, they are not in that group!
I have tried very hard to make my FB page a politics free zone. I have friends and family that I don't want to alienate. Most of my family are Dem voters, except for some nephews, a niece, some cousins. They post stuff and I hide it or just ignore it. They are so sure of themselves and their facts and re-post stupid stuff. So let them--doesn't do any harm. They are all living in solid blue states anyway, so let the vote away!
When this is over I will still be able to talk to them, and I'll be glad of that.
When my father was alive we argued about the 2004 election and it got nowhere. Just a lot of hurt feelings and alienation.
dembotoz
(16,799 posts)will see him xmas and for group grand kid birthdays in june.
he decided his path and i decided mine....get the sizes and give the kids clothing for presents cause i really do not know them to get them toys.....can honestly say i do not miss them....
a good deal of it is i should really be the poster child for the loners group here on du.
friends try to guilt me into being sad about this....it is not working.
it is as if they had never been born....and is ok with me
Divine Discontent
(21,056 posts)I know the feelin'
manicraven
(901 posts)Used to really love the guy and always stuck up for him, worried about him, etc., but he's become a sulking, mean-spirited, cranky racist and climate change denier. He has all the worst right-wing talking points down pat, and he makes a six-figure income to boot, so it's not like he's financially struggling or anything as it the supposed reason for a lot of Trump's support. The last straw for me was when he got into a loud shouting match with our aging, sweet mom recently. He was a complete and total jerk - shouting over her - because she dared to support Hillary in this election. Yeah, after his tantrum and mom holding her ground, he said he wasn't going to vote at all then, but he's actually really changed and is not a nice person any longer. He sees the world completely differently than mom and me.
Thank you GOP and Trumpy for your splendid "family values" and for "making America great again!" YOU SUCK and you're ripping families apart.
And, I lost other family members due to the fact that I'm an atheist. They were extremely hostile to me, so I'll join you in your DU loner's group!
lostnfound
(16,176 posts)Grandparent is a meaningful part of life to children growing.
TomJulie
(98 posts)I've become a believer in what my dad told me when I was old enough to understand. There're 2 things you should never argue, politics and religion as you won't convince them to see your way. I'm aware there are exceptions to every rule but the chances of changing someone's opinion is slim to none. There's no way...none, they could convince me to vote for Trump no matter what they say.
And, I too have friends and family that wouldn't vote for Hillary for love or money but that's okay with me, let them vote for whom they like and I'll vote for whom I like. They will always be friends, we have to agree to disagree and don't discuss politics. I won't let someone who votes different than I sway me on my opinion of or how I feel about them.
B2G
(9,766 posts)SleeplessinSoCal
(9,112 posts)Some never see anything but right-wing crap. Working together against the local tyrants afforded a chance to persuade.
Highway61
(2,568 posts)I lost my family as well. 8 years ago. I was sad in the beginning but I got over it rather quick. I pulled the plug. It was EXAUSTING listening and dealing with the ignorance and bullshit. Hate is Hate. You can try and sugar coat it anyway you want. When I got sick and tired of being sick and tired. I pulled the plug.
I have never felt better. You can't fix ugly. I can sleep at night. I am happy with "the little family" that I have left. We are normal and really good people filled with genuine love.
Hang in there and know this. It isn't you. You can't fix ugly. YOU are a damn good person and are loved. Peace.
manicraven
(901 posts)It IS exhausting trying to get them to see that their beliefs are steeped in hate or that "data" they quote is garbage from lousy, biased sources, etc. And, no it's not okay to send me President Obama's image wearing a turban or a noose around his neck or Hillary with a bull's-eye over her face, etc.
Duppers
(28,120 posts)Thank you for expressing my sentiments and feelings.
SleeplessinSoCal
(9,112 posts)She will have the opportunity to push for an agenda that many in the middle class will like. The House Republicans will continue to obstruct and that I believe is where next year's battle begins. Exposing obstruction that helps the working middle class and electing progressives.
4 more years
(100 posts)Last edited Mon Nov 7, 2016, 05:14 PM - Edit history (1)
Wife , son and daughter law all Hillary. Sisters not and their immediate family. The gop wants change and they have no true idea wtf that is.This so called " Change " is the biggest con job in American history. Trump has been running a con his entire life. The sad thing is he might not even know. He is a sick person that needs clinical help. My so called friends never saw the damage done by the bush 8 years in office. Now 16 years later they only bash what Obama has done over the past 8 years. Friends like this I don't need. Lets see Bush had a 12% approval rating when he left office. Obama 53% approval rating as of today. Congress still,@ 12% . What does that tell you.
Flatpicker
(894 posts)Your better off ignoring the FB political junk.
Most of those posts are recycled electrons posted by ITGs.
Let it go and enjoy the time with your niece when you see her.
Duppers
(28,120 posts)Misinformation about about climate change and scientific facts!
And that "political junk" is why we're all here posting and hoping to achieve a better world. Yet you've the audacity to say ignore it! Wow!
I'm happier without any family members or former friends who ascribe to such an ignorant, hateful right-wing worldview. I cannot be a hypocrite to save any relationship and I don't think doing so is a virtue. I have my immediate true blue family and other new friends I'm grateful for.
Was concerned about his niece. If he wants to keep her in his life then he has to ignore the rw stupidity they post.
I get what your saying, but it sounds as if he loves her and doesn't want to lose connection.
bluegopher
(87 posts)I really do. Everyone on my side of the family is republican and all but one of them are Trump supporters. These are good people, who would never do anything to hurt anyone. They just basically rely on Fox News for their knowledge. I avoid confronting them at all costs, mostly because it's pointless. My mother, who is one of them, I credit for making me the liberal I am today. My multi-racial daughter wouldn't even get into her grandmother's car when she saw the Trump/Spence sticker on the bumper. Politics aside, these are sad times.
Iggo
(47,552 posts)So I don't.
manicraven
(901 posts)I have too many relatives who despise Obama, hate Hillary, and LOVE Trumpy, and they blatantly ignore ALL of his faults while relentlessly picking apart Hillary. I will never convince them otherwise that many of their posts are offensive and/or inaccurate, and they'll never convince me to adopt their worldview. In fact, I can't even get my brain around to how they think. I've really tried and failed to see things from their vantage point because facts and reality don't align with their claims. In any case, they can think whatever they want to, but they cross lines and assume they'll persuade others with violent and/or racist and/or misogynistic imagery, or they think it's all just funny so what's the harm...
Anyway, I think I'd be engaging with them too much, and usually it's just a waste of time. I'd rather hang out with like-minded people.
Demonaut
(8,914 posts)no worries
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)I feel somewhat blessed in that all my my closest friends and family members are apolitical. If I want to bore them, all I have to do is bring up politics and their eyes begin to glaze over as though I'm reciting prime numbers backwards from 1000 (fun to listen to for the first seven seconds, not so much afterwards).
As for co-workers and acquaintances, all that needs said is "you're a much better person than what you sound like at this moment. Be that better person for all of us to see!" It's a rhetorical trap, but it works every time.
Vinca
(50,269 posts)Be sure to point out it was made in China. I don't understand the Trump lover. Especially veterans. Here the Trumpenfuhrer calls STDs his "own personal Vietnam," says his time at military high school was just like the real military . . . maybe harder, shows up for his physical when called up to serve and presents the doctor with an x-ray of a bone spur on his foot. After being rejected for medical reasons he goes skiing. Then, of course, there was the scam military charity with $30 in the bank and 1 member he used to raise millions of dollars for veterans. After pressure from news agencies, he donated a million and no one knows what happened to the rest. It's hard for me to accept the fact there are Americans dumb enough to fall for this character's schtick. Did I mention the giant "Veterans For Trump" sign that went up a couple of miles from me?
RKP5637
(67,105 posts)have been scientific studies done and they are valid. I used to think it was conditioned behavior, but now it's apparently more genetic. Some are predisposed for this behavior, but it's latent. Someone like Trump brings it out in someone once seeming benign.
Island Blue
(5,815 posts)on Double Secret Probation (i.e. I unfollowed them) on Facebook for the duration of the election. Luckily, my immediate family members are all voting Hillary, with the possible exception of my older brother who really has no interest in politics. (Although he does vote which makes him part of the uninformed electorate, so probably a Trump voter. )
A week or so after the election I'll probably re-follow my SC relatives on a trial basis. If they are still spewing hate, back on probation they'll go.
trof
(54,256 posts)Miz t. is no longer speaking to her two sisters and three brothers in Texas and I don't blame her.
TexasMommaWithAHat
(3,212 posts)"Gee, I'm so glad I let politics destroy my relationship with my family."
I have a lot of republicans in my family, and they aren't haters. In fact, our extended family is quite multicultural. Unfortunately, they still buy the trickle-down-economics-type shit and simply have different philosophies about governance than I do, but I'm not going to stop loving them for believing this.
When it comes to difficult relationships with family (and I've had my own difficulties, I assure you), it's best to ask yourself if you would take that same course of action if you only had six weeks to live...or if the other person only had six weeks to live. You might find your perspective quite changed.
Skittles
(153,150 posts)silence = agreement
bhikkhu
(10,715 posts)Usually very briefly and easily debunked. That's what I stick to, without making a big fuss over it. I think most people on the other side think they are doing the rational and right thing in the beginning, but based on a bunch of phony facts. I usually leave it at that.
If I did have to have a face to face conversation of why I voted how I voted, I'd leave personalities out completely. The main thing a president can do is influence the economy, and that affects everybody (as bush's lousy policies should have proven). Hillary's plan is very sound, backed by most economists, and should keep things going on the right track as they have been. Trump's plan, on the other hand, is generally considered to be a half-baked disaster-in-waiting, derided by economists and business leaders, and the markets plunged when it looked like he might get in.
Grey Lemercier
(1,429 posts)I literally have zero friends and/or fam who suppport shitgibbon. I also live in Zone 1 in London, so that helps. lol
I am way too assertive and get argy bargy right quick so I would not do well with so many of your families and friends. I suffer fools, sexists, homophobes, and racialists lightly.
fuck 'em