I sure hope the BoBs and Greens and the rest of the alt-left are happy!

[DanTex]

Last edited Sat Dec 10, 2016, 02:41 PM - Edit history (1)

Treasury headed by the former head of Goldman's Mortgage division. EPA headed by a climate denier. Labor headed by a CEO who hates unions and wants to slash the minimum wage. Secretary of Defense who wants War with Iran.

This is what they wanted when they fought so hard against Hillary and the Democratic Party. How many gallons of Champagne do you think Jill Stein and Cornel West have gone through since their big victory?


UPDATE: Exxon-Mobil CEO for Secretary of State! The "Green" Party must be so proud of themselves!

[el_bryanto]

1. Well I can't really say - I didn't think much of Hillary Clinton but I'm sad she didn't win

I thought Bernie Sanders would have been a much better candidate, but once the party settled on Clinton I supported and voted for her. I just wish Clinton had been a better candidate and, you know, won?

Bryant

[dembotoz]

10. bout sums it up

held my nose and voted hrc cause i am a loyal dem

[ismnotwasm]

41. She was a great candidate

She did have a lot stacked up against her. I, too, wish she would have, you know, won..very much so.

Sanders would have lost, and he would have become a far less effective change agent--not that he's effective now, but he has a real shot. He would have become a laughingstock as soon as news of his honeymoon became national news, much less his coziness with Ortega, and his admiration of Castro.

[ejbr]

56. Kinda like

Trump's coziness with Putin cost him the election...oh wait....

[tecelote]

64. +1

A lot more was said about how Trump would lose and look at how those sage predictions ended.

[ismnotwasm]

116. Dude, Trump and Sanders and, like, a world apart

That is a rank comparison.

[ejbr]

129. Not sure what that means,

however, if I understand you correctly, if Bernie's so-called associations with unlikeable people would have cost him the general election, then why shouldn't have Trump's?

[sfwriter]

252. They are both "change" candidates

Around here (Ohio) I heard a lot of people who turned Trump after Sanders lost. They are more antiestablishment than smart.

Why was it even close?

[George II]

138. Trump didn't go to Moscow for his honeymoon, nor did he praise Castro as a great leader...

....etc.

You really think those along with a lot of other "skeletons" wouldn't have taken top billing in the republicans' smear/presidential campaign?

[ejbr]

144. What skeletons?

I mean, I could list Hillary's baggage, but I don't have the time and energy to list them all here. And if he did have skeletons, wouldn't the DNC have uncovered them to help Secretary Clinton? Or do you think that feeding her debate questions, limiting debates, and conspiring to call Senator Sanders an atheist was all they had the stomach for?

[George II]

156. Despite what lots of people would LIKE to think, the DNC wasn't "against" Sanders.

I think many here know what might be lurking in Sanders' past or not even lurking. But some have gotten hides/removals for mentioning them here.

BTW, she was NOT "fed debate questions" or any of that other stuff - that is totally false and no credible evidence has ever been presented. But it sounds good.

[ejbr]

159. Of course she wasn't fed debate questions

Donna Brazille was just tired of earning a paycheck from CNN. /S Many here know what might be lurking in his past? Is that similar to "some people say"? And the DNC wasn't against Sanders? Five people lost their jobs within the DNC just because? And trust me, I don't like KNOWING that people who were supposed to be fair arbiters were not. But please, let's get back to the Russians messing with our elections as some believe there is nothing to see here on our shores.

[Hekate]

201. +1 On good authority (like Not Fake News) we know the GOP had an oppo file a yard thick on Sanders

You, of course, understand every one of Hillary's accomplishments was twisted by the GOP.

Others have not grasped that the GOP could and would twist every conceivable moment of Sanders' long and unconventional life out of recognition. He was a target-rich environment. They only held back because he was not the candidate in the GE.

[WhiteTara]

249. Nor did Scum write about how women wanted to

be raped.

[Jean-Jacques Roussea]

253. Think Castro would've helped Bernie win?

Doubt that's how he'd spend his last days

[truebluegreen]

101. Are you aware that that "Bernie honeymooned in Russia" tripe

started at Breitbart? And has been frequently debunked?

The trip, which began the day after his wedding with his second wife, Jane, in May 1988, was undertaken as part of Sanders' official duties as mayor of Burlington, Vermont.
http://origin-www.bloombergview.com/articles/2016-02-11/how-bernie-sanders-spent-his-soviet-honeymoon

Socialism isn't the boogeyman it used to be--except among those who would never vote for a Democrat anyway--and, apparently, among that group, Russia is our new best friend.

[kacekwl]

132. Thank you for clearing that up

for all here to see. Thank You.

[truebluegreen]

285. My pleasure.

[George II]

141. What "official duties" does the mayor of a small (35,000 people) rural town have in Moscow?

It didn't start at Breitbart, it started when he stepped off the plane in Moscow decades earlier.

Sanders would have been ripped to shreds by the republican attack machine.

[truebluegreen]

170. You might know if you bothered to read the link.

And as for Bernie being ripped to shreds by the republican attack machine: I assume you want to contrast that with their treatment of Clinton? They'd never lay a glove on her, nosirree.

p.s. fyi, honeymoon in question was in 1988. Gorbachev's USSR, not Stalin's. Yeah, I know republicans don't do nuance; I thought we did though.

[George II]

215. Yaroslavl is a city of more than 600,000 whereas Burlington was only 35,000.

Hardly "sister" cities.

And in May of 1988 it wasn't quite yet "Gorbachev's USSR".

[truebluegreen]

223. WTH? Gorbachev was General Secretary of the party

from 1985 to 1991, so I don't know where you get the idea that he wasn't around in 1988. Some kind of a time anomaly perhaps. Whatever.

And if you have a problem with the sister cities designation, why don't you utilize the same time warp to take it up with Burlington and Yaroslavl?

Oy.

[WhiteTara]

244. Why of course it was official business

I mean, all small town mayors take trips to Russia.

[truebluegreen]

277. So you're going with the theory

That he was a Secret Soviet Operative, plotting to turn the US into a commie client state or something similar?

[WhiteTara]

278. where did that come from?

I said he was off doing the business of a small town mayor. Just because he just got married and wanted to honeymoon somewhere had nothing to do with it, I'm sure.

[truebluegreen]

280. Right. You totally have no idea

that anyone might detect sarcasm in your response, much less think it ridiculous.

[WhiteTara]

282. You know

I don't care what you think. Really. You have all the right to think whatever you want. I assume I do as well, unless there is the new paradigm here and you are the arbiter of what can be written. I'm sure you will tell me.

[truebluegreen]

283. I don't care what you think or write

Other than to wonder why anyone posts something whose only purpose (apparently) is to be snarky.. what would be the point?

[George II]

72. Since he didn't get the nomination, we never got to see all the dirt that would have been....

...flung his way.

I won't go into it all because it would be "low hanging fruit" for a removal, but I think everyone here knows where they would have started.

[lapucelle]

119. Kurt Eichenwald of Newsweek saw the opposition research on Sanders.

It appears to have been pretty damning. "Environmental racist" billboards were already good to go.

I wouldn't have been surprised to see Sanders long awaited and carefully guarded tax returns show up on Wikileaks, as well.

http://www.newsweek.com/myths-cost-democrats-presidential-election-521044

[Texin]

87. She did.

The Cheeto shitstain only got those RED States because his BFF PootyPoot was carrying little Donny around in his pocket, with a big old fuckin' A endorsement from no-neck McConnell. The two of these rethugs are nothing short of traitors to this country. And look what they're planning for us.

Enjoy that party.

[lapucelle]

103. I would never, you know, presume to answer for BoBs or Greens.

I don't, you know, identify with narcissistic spoilers.

If Sanders were a better candidate, he would have, you know, actually won the nomination.

The Democratic party didn't, you know, "settle" on Clinton. Hillary trounced Sanders, you know, by well over 3,000,000 votes.

It's a shame, you know, that the Bobs and the Greens didn't think these things through before the election. In a Democratic senate, Sanders would have had a powerful influence. With a Democratic president and Senate, you know, the most progressive platform in decades would have been enacted as actual policy.

It isn't surprising, you know, that the BoBs and Greens are bewildered by the anger and contempt of the 65,000,000. They should have gotten out of the echo chamber more frequently if they really wanted to, you know, do the truly progressive thing.

[el_bryanto]

158. Yeah - I like how you made fun of one thing I said for an entire post

Really strengthened your argument. No I have totally changed my mind - Hillary Clinton was way better than a committed liberal like Bernie Sanders. If only we all accepted the lesser of two evils all the time - then we'd see real progress.

Bryant

[lapucelle]

162. Hillary's record for liberalism in the senate matches Sanders.

I remember when environmental activist and Nobel Peace winner Al Gore was cast in the role of "lesser of two evils" by the third party spoilers. That worked out well.

Exploiting a verbal device used by an opposition thinker to convey dismissivenessis is actually a pretty good rhetorical strategy. It underscores the ad feminum weakness in the original claim.

http://www.newsweek.com/2016/02/26/bernie-sanders-hillary-clinton-alike-426301.html

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/28/upshot/the-senate-votes-that-divided-hillary-clinton-and-bernie-sanders.html

http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/hillary-clinton-was-liberal-hillary-clinton-is-liberal/

[el_bryanto]

234. Ad feminum? What does that refer to? nt

[lapucelle]

269. Argumentum ad feminum:

unsupported assertions directed against a woman on a personal level, rather than on her reasoning or positions.

Examples:

“I didn't think much of Hillary Clinton...”

“...once the party settled on Clinton...”

“I just wish Clinton had been a better candidate and, you know, won?”

[el_bryanto]

271. Ah. So if you said "I didn't think much of Bernie Sanders"

Would that be argumentum ad masculinum? Or can we assume that if a person doesn't perfer a male candidate, they probably have some sort of reasoning to back that up, but if someone doesn't support a female, it's probably due to feelings on a personal level.

Or, perhaps, every time I criticize Hillary Clinton I have to provide several paragraphs explaining why I didn't support her in order to avoid this contention?

Bryant

[lapucelle]

272. Some people confuse snark with argumentation

and when they get called on it, they get emotional.

An argument is an assertion supported by reasons. A set of unsupported claims do not make an argument. That is something else entirely, often either an attack or an appeal. We can call unsupported claims critical of a candidate on a personal level an ad hominum attack if more gender specific language makes you uncomfortable.

But there is no denying that you jumped on to this thread with a very specific and somewhat toxic message. It's not my fault that somebody smarter than you heard it and then refuted it.

And with that, you are ignored.

[el_bryanto]

274. That's a pretty normal response from someone who can't bear the thought that some people

might not have supported Hillary Clinton. I should be used to it.

Bryant

[lunamagica]

210. The trump voters who can be divided in to camps: the racist, misogynist xenophobes, and those who

Last edited Sat Dec 10, 2016, 05:39 PM - Edit history (1)

wanted their tax cuts and Obamacare repealed. Yeah, thy would have loved sanders.

It's beyond absurd to think that these people would have flocked towards a candidate who said repeatedly he was going to raise their taxes.

[TrekLuver]

247. You forgot the ones that hated Clinton so much that they would of rather voted for Satan himself.

[lunamagica]

262. Actually, I did not. The mysoginist are part of the first group

[TrekLuver]

266. They were not all misogynist. They just hated anything Clinton.

I've met and talked to many people who fell into this category. The email 'scandal' as well as the other faux scandals just reinforced their hatred of Hillary.

[lunamagica]

267. And you think they would admit it to your face?

If you belong to the camp who said "I want a woman president, just not this woman...don't hold your breath.

[TrekLuver]

268. I personally knew many of them. Sorry that there were people who really just hated Clinton PERIOD

and ate all the lies of the past 30 years..but that's a fact.

[lapucelle]

270. So a fake scandal reinforced their original irrational hatred?

[TrekLuver]

273. Yes...and there have been fake scandals going back 25 years now. I swear if these people were on

fire and Hillary walked by with a bucket and put them out they would of rather burned to death....they just hated her that much. I guess I kinda understand their level of hate (not their reasoning since there is none) now since I feel this way about Trashpot LOL.

[brush]

130. Comey, Putin, Assange denied the real winner who got 2.7 million more votes

Plus repug cheating in key states, not to mention the diehards who foolishly stayed home or voted 3rd party.

Now we have a Russian tool in office. At lease the president ordered and investigation on Trump/Putin.

[pnwmom]

131. She has 2.8 million more votes. There are two main reasons she wasn't

a "better candidate.'

One is that the media blanketed the airwaves in the last 11 days with negative coverage -- due to James Comeys letter bombs -- and the undecideds broke for DT.

The other is that we have a system rigged so that rural white voters literally count for more than diverse urban voters.

[oasis]

165. +1000

[WhiteTara]

242. She could have been a better candidate if only

she was a pussy grabber rather than being someone who had a pussy to grab.

[el_bryanto]

243. What an incredibly stupid thing to say. nt

[WhiteTara]

245. says the man.

[el_bryanto]

246. I didn't vote for Trump I voted for Hillary in the general election.

Do you think the only reason I supported Bernie over Hillary in the primary was because I'm a misogynist?

Bryant

[WhiteTara]

248. Who knows? Who cares?

You may your choices.

[Tanuki]

2. Jeffrey Sachs has the nerve to tweet about the EPA being

handed over to the oil industry and to smugly sound the call for "civic virtue." You're a day late and a dollar short, Jeff. Too bad you didn't use whatever platform and influence you have for the greater good and to do your part to avert catastrophe.

[yallerdawg]

3. When the Senate Democrats took the first stand for...

white working class voters in "Coal Country" - just last night! - votes won in overwhelming number by Sanders in the primary and then Corrupt Trump - it was chirping crickets from the fringy left.

It's obvious a certain contingent on 'the left' demands to tell us what we did wrong - and that is their only demand.

[ProgressIsLeft]

4. Many would rather burn it all down completely

and start from scratch all over again in order to have a Dem party who is truly progressive. The state of mind here in their thought is this;

"You have to go through Hell to get to heaven".

Stop blaming others. Look inward and look what went wrong and why it did.

[DanTex]

6. Yup. Those people are idiots. Selfish idiots.

It would be nice for them to burn down their own house instead of burning down the entire country.

[Cha]

7. The entire Planet..

gmta..

see my post, Dan.

[ProgressIsLeft]

186. Are they though?

Are they really selfish? I'm thinking they aren't. If anything they're anything but and they want what is the greater good for America. Think of it this way Dan, people in this mindset saw Hillary as a very conservative Dem who couldn't even fight for single payer health care, a living wage or free education. They'd rather scratch it all and start all over fresh with new people and new ideas than try and build from what we have currently. You need to take a look at the thought process here; they see the government as slow as molasses and not doing anything to help. The conversation about student loans has been only that, a conservation, lots of talk but little in the way of action. These folks are sick and tired of inaction.

It is what it is.

[DanTex]

195. A lot of them are. Some of them are just stupid.

The selfish ones are the Susan Sarandons. They are wealthy, they won't get deported, they won't lose healthcare, they don't need social security. Jill Stein is in this category. Most people who write for alt-left sites like CounterPunch are in that category. The alt-lefties you see on youtube are in that category. You don't see many people at risk of deportation or losing healthcare talking about how great it is that everything is going to burn down.

The alt-leftists aren't personally going to lose anything to Trump. It's like a movie to them, or a video game. Hey, wouldn't it be fun if Trump caused immense suffering to millions of people, and then we can ride in to save the day? Other people suffer for their political experiment.

But, yeah, it's not just selfishness, it's also stupidity. It takes a lot of stupidity to think that a Trump administration is somehow going to make progressive changes in the future more likely. This was Nader's theory -- he said it would be better for W to win to shake the Democratic Party up. Instead we got 8 years of W that we are still recovering from. And just when we got over the damage that Nader/Bush caused, here comes the alt-left to set us back again.

The central problem is that by helping Trump win, the alt-left isn't burning down the Democratic Party, they are burning down the whole country.

[ProgressIsLeft]

203. Now we've gone full on calling people names

Alt-left? Ok, does that they mean they hand out kittens to everybody, travel in a VW bus, fight for everybody and want free college? lol It's the opposite of Alt-Right so I'm guessing that they must love a little bit more than everybody else XD

Counter-Punch I don't see as a alt-left site, a term which was originally brought forth by conservatives of the wing nut variety

("The term isn't brand new, but it has just now gradually worked its way into the mainstream. It started with alt-right websites like World Net Daily and has graduated to the airwaves of Fox News and Sean Hannity, who has been using it for a couple of weeks now. And Trump, who has distanced himself from the alt-right term, may have played a major role in pushing it into the conservative lexicon." https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/12/01/meet-the-alt-left-the-gops-response-to-its-alt-right-problem/ )

The so called "alt left" is burning down the party. case in point? This--- Sanders coalition takes over Brevard Democratic leadership http://www.floridatoday.com/story/news/politics/2016/12/09/sanders-coalition-takes-over-brevard-democratic-leadership/95105028/

Pretty darn awesome IMHO because they would change it from red to blue and along with it, have progressives! Yup, good stuff!

[DanTex]

206. Well, I'm calling Greens and BoBs names. I also call Republicans names.

I hope you don't have a problem if, for example, I call Trump an idiot.

I have no idea about Hannity's use of the term alt-left. I don't watch Hannity. I'm using to refer to the Greens and BoBs and media outlets like CounterPunch that help propagate their anti-Democratic pro-Trump message.

That Brevard County thing is hilarious. Sure, we have a psychopath in charge of the country and millions of people will suffer, but hey, look at Brevard County, Florida! Awesome!

[ProgressIsLeft]

265. Why is it hillarious? All politics are local.

And flipping a county from red to blue is important and I don't think anybody here would doubt that although you're free to disagree.

Yes the term alt-left was coined by conservatives. Just a FYI.

Maybe it's time we stop calling people names and start being the adults. All that serves is to fire people up and make sure they show up to the polls to vote against whoever Dems are running.

[lunamagica]

220. Yes they are. They are not the ones who get "scratched"

Perfect example is Susan Sarandon. Oh, the twinkle in her eye when she told Chris Hayes trunp's victory would spark "the revolution'.

A revolution which she would witness from her Ivory tower, watching as the rest of us burns.

[leftofcool]

241. No shit! As far as I am concerned, they got what they wanted.

[Tanuki]

8. Yeah, because that worked so well for the Naderites who

thought that enabling idiot Bush against Al Gore would be just the "cold shower" we all needed to get back on the road to real progress.

[GummyBearz]

145. Didn't that ultimately end up with a 2 term Obama presidency?

So it kinda worked... maybe in 4 or 8 years we will get another president as good as Obama, instead of an elitist insider. Time will tell

[ProgressIsLeft]

179. Which lead to Obama for 8 years.

[Tanuki]

196. Yeah, tough shit about the Iraq war, and every other fucked up

thing that happened on GWB'S watch, by that "logic." And we are supposed to be glad that idiot Trump will try to undo every bit of progress since the New Deal, because....it will usher in some kind of permanent progressive Golden Age?

[ProgressIsLeft]

260. Oh I agree with you

Don't get me wrong. It's quite a paradox isn't it. I truly thought it would be a long time before we had a Republican POTUS again. Funny, W almost looks like a saint compared to Trump.

There will be backlash, make no mistake about that. I think we'll see if pretty swift too.

[lunamagica]

216. Yeah, usually those who think like that are the ones who ar not affected

[JTFrog]

239. And the loss of many lives, rights and freedoms.

But that's ok because we got a Democrat in office for 8 years? And that Democrat gets blamed for every fucking thing that happened while the repigs were in charge while he tries to clean up the mess, add, rinse, repeat, is real fucking progress. NOT

Bern it down was the stupidest fucking movement of all year, right up there with Brexit. Fucking Idiocracy abounds.

[Cooley Hurd]

11. Welcome to DU!

We certainly need more REAL Progressives here!

[ProgressIsLeft]

182. Thank you :)

[BobbyDrake]

22. What "went wrong" is that we relied on people who think like that.

Our mistake, won't happen again.

[ProgressIsLeft]

188. No sorry

I completely disagree with you.
It isn't the people it's the candidate. We need to look inward. There were a multitude of problems.

[joshcryer]

34. Except that's not how it works. We'll have New New Democrats.

Thanks to the normalization of right wing populism.

[Cooley Hurd]

52. DLC on steroids.

...and we STILL lost.

[joshcryer]

60. And Tulsi Gabbard is our new progressive hero.

Can't make this shit up.

She's all over Trump's crony nomination of generals.

She's buddying up with Trump already.

Sickening.

[Cooley Hurd]

66. How so?

Because she supported Senator Sanders? Not sure why she would be considered a "progressive hero".

[ProgressIsLeft]

190. Actually it is how it works

and if Dems keep running Third Way candidates, the party will be in even more trouble. 18 states right now are governed by Dems, that's it. The current direction is a disaster for us and we have lost massive amounts of reps at the local level. Either stop the bleeding or we bleed out.

[jumptheshadow]

54. What is just and moral about plunging most of the world into suffering?

You make a lot of thoughtful observations, but are you one of us? Did you vote for the Democratic nominee?

[ProgressIsLeft]

192. Did I say that it was?

Am I one of you? Suddenly I hear "your papers please".

[jumptheshadow]

233. Just asking

I like many of your thoughtful posts. This is also a Democratic forum and it is fair to ask if you voted for the Democratic nominee.

[lapucelle]

133. We saw the result of that brilliant strategy after the 2000 election

when environmental activist and Nobel Peace prize winner Al Gore was cast in the role of the "lesser of two evils" by the progressive champion of the people Ralph Nadar and his merry gang of spoilers.

[ProgressIsLeft]

193. Which lead to 8 years of Obama.

[lapucelle]

197. Which led to losing Congress.

Which led to grid-locked government. Which led to the right wing narrative that the executive branch was to blame. Which, combined with the narcissistic egotism of third party and Green party purist tools, led to the election of Trump.

Bush's win over the "lesser of two evils" Al Gore also led to the Roberts-led Citizens United court, the gutting of environmental initiatives, and the further demise of the middle and working classes.

Hey...sounds like a plan! As Trump said, "what have you got to lose?"

[Bradical79]

256. I don't think President Obama would think it was worth it

At least 100,000 people died because of Bush's war, and that's the very low end estimate.

[lunamagica]

213. And usually those people are the ones who will not be affected by "the revolution"

Last edited Sat Dec 10, 2016, 04:36 PM - Edit history (1)

I despise them all.

[jmowreader]

238. Do they realize how hard it's going to be to undo Trump's first 100 days?

Trump intends to "burn it down" in ways that cannot be undone. He is already talking about undoing the First Amendment - what do you think the "flag burning" shit is about? Then he'll institute "loser pays" tort reform to make sure no one ever files a lawsuit again. Within a year the Second Amendment will be at risk. Then the rest. If you want a "truly progressive Democratic Party" you do not start by letting a guy who'd be happy as hell to destroy the Democratic Party get into office - and THAT is what Trump is.

[MADem]

292. I don't especially want a Dem Party that is "truly progressive"

because what I have seen of what passes for "progressive" is a lot of this "gays, women and minorities to the back of the bus" shit while the "white working man" gets center stage.

I much prefer a party that is MODERATE TO LIBERAL in their world views. Moderate in terms of financial issues (pay your bills, don't spend money foolishly) and LIBERAL in terms of social issues (care for/feed/house/clothe/educate the old, the young, the disabled, the disadvantaged).

So this burn it down shit doesn't speak for me--it frankly sounds more Ultra-Left/Far Right than anything resembling the Democratic Party I've been a member of for lo, these many decades.

[Cha]

5. Hillary would have been a great President and she won

the Primary by 3 3/4 Million Votes.. and 2.7 million more voted for her in the GE.

The Russians, the FBI, the M$M/fox/hate machines were determined to take her down. Not to mention voter suppression in red governed states.. Voter purges, ballots not being mailed, wikiDamnLeaks, KKK, those who are so gullible they let themselves be brainwashed by the Quack.

And, those who thought more of themselves than the Planet and sat home.. and those like susan sarandon who have more than enough money so they won't get hurt by the ravaging of our country and Planet.. they voted Green and we got a gd climate change denier in the WH.

Yeah, those who want it burned down completely aren't thinking of our Planet and all the poor souls who will die without health care and will be without shelter and enough food to eat.. it's extremely selfish.

[demosincebirth]

39. My feelings, also.

[stopbush]

80. Thank you, Cha!

[Basic LA]

93. Thanks, Cha.

This schism on the left is as wide as I've ever seen it & sometimes seems permanent. Will FDR Dems & Nader Puritanicals ever reconcile?

[Rorey]

105. I get so damned sick and tired.....

...of hearing people say she lost. Or that trump won. He didn't win. People need to look at the facts, which you laid out.

Great post, Cha!

[Cha]

114. Mahalo, Rorey! I get tired of the same thing.

[denvine]

137. I hear you but who's going to be in the Whitehouse?

[Rorey]

155. Illigimately

trump will be in the White House occasionally, but he still doesn't deserve it.

[uponit7771]

121. +1

[lunamagica]

226. Oh, Cha, why bring facts to the disussion?

Great post.

[Thinkingabout]

254. Well said, I don't see many of the issues placed in the DNC platform pushed in the

Next four years, instead of questioning the candidacy of Hillary and voted for third party, Trump or wrote someone else's name or did not vote should question their decision. Apparently allowing Trump to get the EC is going to work for them.

[Cha]

284. Thank you, Thinkingabout, Exactly!! Well said yourself!

[Cooley Hurd]

9. If Stein considered the election of Drumpf a victory...

...then why is she spearheading recounts?

Dumbest OP of the day, maybe the week.

[DanTex]

12. LOL. You actually think the recounts are about trying to change the election result?

If she didn't want Trump president, she would have shown it during the campaign. But she didn't, because she did. The recounts are about ego and money, and trying to raise the profile of the Green Party so she can help elect more Republicans in the future.

[Cooley Hurd]

14. That's the same CT voiced by the few Drumpf supporters I know!

I'd if it wasn't so

[DanTex]

18. Oh, yeah, big conspiracy: politicians do stuff for political reasons. Mindblowing!

I bet you also believe that Trump did that Carrier deal because he really cares about working people.

[Cooley Hurd]

24. A genuine straw man!

[DanTex]

25. I guess you have no idea what a "straw man" is.

[Cooley Hurd]

27. Clearly YOU don't, Skippy.

[DanTex]

28. Ooh, name-calling! This is getting exciting!

[Cooley Hurd]

29. One of my best friends growing up was named Skip...

Growing up... look into it.

*The Things You Know********

[DanTex]

30. LOL. Yeah, I'm sure you meant it as a term of endearment...

I think I'm starting to understand why you are such an ardent defender of the Green Party.

[DanTex]

36. All evidence to the contrary...

[Cooley Hurd]

38. Lemme ask you, Skippy. Do you believe Secretary Clinton made mistakes during the campaign?

[DanTex]

44. Not sure what that has to do with anything, but yes, all humans make mistakes.

I guess you're trying to equate mistakes from the Hillary campaign with an intentional effort by the alt-left to get Trump elected president.

[Cooley Hurd]

49. It has to do with my previous comment

"Alt-Left".

Wow.

Really? Keep punching hippies, Skippy. That's the kinda thing that depressed voters who might've voted for Secretary Clinton.

[DanTex]

59. So the alt-lefties decided to support Trump because they got their feelings hurt online?

Sorry, not buying it. And even if it were true, that doesn't speak very highly of them. The internet was mean so they vote Green/Trump to punish the world?

[Cooley Hurd]

65. No, not a SINGLE Bernie supporter that I know voted for Drumpf.

That's a fantasy harbored by the hard-core "alt-middle" people that supported Secretary Clinton.

We fell in line because we KNEW Drumpf was a danger. The alt-middle (i.e DLC remnants) told us we were "alt-left" to try to marginalize Senator Sanders, EVEN AFTER he pledged support to the Secretary. (that's where the whole "cult of personality" thing fits in).

ANY Bernie supporters who *might* have voted from Drumpf were driven to do so by the attitudes displayed in the OP.

Who do YOU blame for this?

[ismnotwasm]

71. If one can be "driven" to vote for Trump

One has serious issues. And simply not voting for Hillary would suffice enough to be placed in the ring of assholery, forever.

[Cooley Hurd]

76. Like I said, NO one I know who supported Senator Sanders, voted for Drumpf.

Not a single person (I'm old and know a lot of people ). We ALL voted for secretary Clinton. I voted for her in 2000 and 2006 for my Senator. In the primaries, I voted for Senator Obama and Senator Sanders *because they matched my beliefs*.

[DanTex]

82. Voting Green is half as bad as voting GOP.

And, yes, there were alt-lefties who voted for Trump as the "lesser evil" or to punish Hillary for getting so many votes in the primary.

And the attitude of my OP is that I hope they're happy about all these lovely cabinet appointments that they helped bring about. I'm not sure how that could retroactively cause people to go back and vote for Trump.

[Cooley Hurd]

94. I will wear the label "alt-leftie" proudly

At least I'm not a DLC zombie (since they've been dead for years yet don't know that they are).

Keep triangulating. That has worked SOOO well this election cycle.

Oh, and read this so you know how a REAL Democrat thinks:

https://www.amazon.com/No-Ordinary-Time-Franklin-Roosevelt/dp/0684804484

[DanTex]

98. I already know how a "REAL Democrat" thinks because I am one.

[Cooley Hurd]

104. Yet your fire is aimed at other Democrats...

I apologize for calling you Skippy earlier - I should've used "Fraggy". (as in one who attacks their own kind).

C'mon, you should see where I've been going with this! Blaming Stein or Johnson or Bernie or whatever bugaboo you want to conjure up is not only counterproductive, but just plain false!

[DanTex]

111. Actually, no, that's your fire. Aimed at the DLC and centrist Dems.

Jill Stein is not a Democrat. As for Dems that voted Trump/Green/abstained, they deserve every bit of the fire because they helped get us where we are. If any DLC types voted Trump or Green, that goes for them too, but somehow I doubt there are many of those.

[Cooley Hurd]

117. Not at all. If that were so, I would've voted for Stein

I voted for Secretary Clinton. And DLCers were never Democrats, except in the sense of what Dems were before 1933 (Dixiecrats).

[DanTex]

154. If you voted for Clinton, the OP isn't about you.

It's about BoBs and Greens. They deserve the fire, since they helped put Trump into office. I just hope they take a hard look at what they fought so hard for, now that they got it.

[Cooley Hurd]

157. It's about the shaming of true Progressives.

...and I responded appropriately.

The OP was clearly divisive. We really don't need this kind of shit now.

[DanTex]

160. "True Progressives" don't help Trump become president.

Jill Stein is not a "True Progressive". BoBs are not "True Progressives". They are tools of Trump.

Hey look: breaking news, Exxon Mobil CEO for Secretary of State! Wow, Jill Stein's "no difference between the parties" theory is sure working out great, don't you think!

[Cooley Hurd]

161. You continue to blame those who are not to blame.

Step back and breathe.

[DanTex]

163. I don't see why you're defending Jill Stein and the BoBs here.

I'm blaming people who deserve blame. You voted for Hillary, it's not on you. Pretending that the Greens didn't help Trump win is just willful ignorance.

And I have no idea why you keep bringing up that "Cult of Personality" video. That term came up with reference Bernie's primary campaign, but you supported him, so that's probably not it. Who knows.

Question: do you think Jill Stein actually believed that Trump and Hillary were equally bad? Do you think she still does?

[Cooley Hurd]

168. I truly believe that blaming the "alt-left" is a VERY dangerous tack to take.

First off, "alt-left" is nonsense in 2016. Jerry Rubin and Abbie Hoffman are dead.

We, of the "Left" are not communists. We are not, even, necessarily, Socialists.

We are believers of the Square Deal, of which TR outlined. Of which FDR solidified.

We only wish for an economic and justice system that works for the majority, not the 1%.

Stop punching hippies. Wow...

[DanTex]

171. You keep saying "we". I'm not talking about you.

I'm talking about people like Jill Stein who go around saying there's no difference between the parties.

Why would any remotely progressive person go around saying that?

That's alt-left. Preferring Bernie over Hillary (or vice versa) isn't alt-anything.

[Cooley Hurd]

172. I'm a Liberal.

And I'm a pragmatist. So are many that you continue to denigrate.

[DanTex]

173. Me too. Both.

Greens and BoBs are neither. They are tools of Trump.

Since you insist on defending them, can you at least answer some questions? Why would they go around saying that Trump is no worse than Hillary? Do you think they ever believed it, or were they lying? Do you think they still believe it?

[Cooley Hurd]

177. I'm not a part of, nor have I ever defended either group.

However, I will not sanction the kind of attack you and others have waged on Liberals and Progressives who are the heart and soul of the (post 1964) Democratic Party.

Keep punching Hippies. There's more of US (Progressives) than YOU (DLC).

[DanTex]

181. Well then what are we arguing about?

I have no beef with you, only BoBs and Greens. Why should it bother you that I attack them?

I'm not attacking progressives, I am a progressive. Maybe you want me to attack progressives, but I'm not going to do that, because then I would be attacking myself.

Also, I am not nor have I ever been a member of the DLC.

[Cooley Hurd]

211. BoB's and Greens are not the issues at hand.

Hippie punching is, though. So stop punching us. Perhaps we didn't support Secretary Clinton over Senator Sanders. But, everyone I know who supported Senator Sanders in the Primary VOTED for Secretary Clinton in the GE! Everyone of us!

[DanTex]

214. Yes, they are. BoBs and Greens are who I mentioned in the OP. Nothing about "hippies".

I'll say again, I do not care who anyone voted for in the primary. At all. Hillary, Bernie, O'Malley, I liked them all.

This is not about primary votes, it's about the segment of the left that helps Republicans win because they think "both parties are the same."

[brush]

146. What campaign didn't, including Sanders', the non-nominee?

[Cooley Hurd]

148. So you blame Sanders?

[brush]

152. All the primary attacks from a fellow Dem on Clinton being corrupt didn't help but I blame . . .

Comey, Putin, Assange and repug vote suppression, and despite all that Clinton still got nearly 3 million more votes than Trump.

[Cooley Hurd]

153. I think we should't blame anyone except Comey, Putin, Assange...

[jalan48]

40. Thanks for posting this. It should be required viewing for all voters.

[Cooley Hurd]

45. You're welcome.

I was a McGovern, Carter, Mondale, Dukakis, WJ Clinton, Gore, Kerry, Obama and Sanders supporter before I supported Secretary Clinton (who I voted for last month).

Having a hippie-punching, pseudo-progressive tell me it was all Bernie's (or Stein's) fault is beyond the pale (or, sadly, now the SOP) on DU.

[jalan48]

50. McGovern was the first candidate I was able to vote for.

Somewhere along the way we bought into the cult of personality.

[ismnotwasm]

43. Did you support Bernie Sanders in the primary?

[Cooley Hurd]

46. Sure did!

Still proud to do so!

[ismnotwasm]

48. He's got that whole cult of personality thing Down

[Cooley Hurd]

51. No, because over 90% of Bernie supporters voted for Secretary Clinton.

HOWEVER, only 85% of Senator Clinton supporters voted for Senator Obama in 2008.

**The More You Know*************

[ismnotwasm]

68. That pesky 10%

Such useful info...

[Cooley Hurd]

70. Fortunately, we had a candidate in 2008 who was popular enough to win.

[ismnotwasm]

74. Indeed.

we did this time too. Just those few votes here and there--and look at us now

[Cooley Hurd]

79. But her negatives were high and not entirely unfounded

I have always liked the Clintons. I voted for them EVERY time they were on a non-primary ballot.

[ismnotwasm]

86. You have better Dem cred than I do then.

I voted Socialist back then. Never voted for Bill.

[Cooley Hurd]

99. Sure do.

[ismnotwasm]

108. Damn I don't have a snappy come back for that one.

[Cooley Hurd]

110. I'm here all night. Try the veal.

[ismnotwasm]

118. Don't you know how veal is raised?

What kind of liberal are you?

[Cooley Hurd]

124. *rimshot*

Best comeback! I have to give you that!

[ismnotwasm]

126. S'alright

We'll get through all this one way or the other

[Cooley Hurd]

135. See?

I wish everyone else would realize, despite any contention that the primary might've caused, that we at DU have a common enemy again - [u}Drumpf!

He won, not because of Bernie or Stein or Johnson, but because some seriously weird shit happened in the run-up to the election AND on election day.

My plea is... stop punching hippies! We were in the party before triangulation (in my case, since the McGovern candidacy) and we'll be here moving forward... unless we're punched by DLC types.

[ismnotwasm]

175. I am a damn Hippy!

Well kinda. Not an original, too young for all that.

All this is back and forth stuff. I only get into it when I'm grumpy. As I had an apparently opposite political awaking that brought me to being a Democrat, I only have a problem with bullshit. Or what I consider bullshit. Repeated Memes, scattershot finger pointing, and those with no apparent understanding of how the political process actually works---good, bad and ugly (we so-called "radical" feminists can really look with a jaundiced eye at all of Western civilization, starting with ancient Greek philosophy) are annoying. Conspiracy theorists are annoying.

Someone posts a thread, and Hillary partisans get upset--someone else posts a thread And Bernie partisans gets upset. Then someone else posts a thread blaming Obama for the whole thing...etc

I do agree we have bigger fish to fry right now.

[Cooley Hurd]

184. Let's do so then!

One thing I dug about DU in 2002 was that we had a common enemy after the usurpation by a partisan SCOTUS.

Fuck, man, we're here again! We have to band together. More importantly, STOP bashing Progressives and Liberals! We're on the same side!

[ismnotwasm]

187. Ok then

You and I can start...

Friends, with the common enemy of Republicans. We can agree to disagree on any number of issues, or approach to issues is more likely without being assholes.

[Cooley Hurd]

218. I've never considered you, or any other DUer an asshole.

Sure, differing opinions, but never anything hitting asshole status.

Except alg0912. Total asscarrot.

[ismnotwasm]

229. Hahaha!

[Cooley Hurd]

230. The whole 2004 name change thingy, of course...

See? Moving fwd, we're all on the same page.

[ismnotwasm]

240. This is true

Although, I never thought I'd be nostalgic for the days of arguing about porn...

[rwsanders]

286. I'm glad you had the patience to try to stand for the Bernie voters,

I just hang to the edges and let them rant. They ran a real purge before the election, glad folks like you are still around.
Sad thing is there are many "democrats" out there who don't really seem to understand voting for principles not just "my team".

[joshcryer]

35. Activist groups objectively make more money...

...when the other side is in power.

[stopbush]

81. Bingo!

[brush]

140. Throw in also that she doesn't want to be labeled as the new Nader who helped the repugs win

[KittyWampus]

17. The Green Party does have a record of fighting against BBV. That said, Jill Stein

is just another useful idiot for the Republicans and Russians.

[BobbyDrake]

20. Stein's "recount" is about collecting names, email address, and phone numbers. That's it.

Anyone who thinks otherwise is allowing themselves to be fooled.

[Cooley Hurd]

26. ...and the Clinton legal team signed on to it.

How dare they do so?

[ismnotwasm]

90. I think they kinda felt obligated

It's a grandstanding ploy that will change nothing, but Hillary felt strongly that every vote deserves to be counted.

[Cooley Hurd]

97. Of course she did.

Thank you for stating the obvious.

[ismnotwasm]

107. Why you are most welcome!

[kacekwl]

136. Don't really care what her motivation is ,

If she wasn't doing it no one would. And alot of this vote fraud, irregularities ,rigging what ever you want to call it would never have been exposed. LEAD, FOLLLOW or GET OUT OF THE WAY.

[lapucelle]

134. To build both a war chest and a vast and easily monetized email list.

Duh.

[Cooley Hurd]

139. To cut off your nose...

...to spite your face.

[lapucelle]

147. Stein raised funds to cut off my nose and spite my face?

Or to cut off her own nose and spite her own face? Or are we talking about Trump's nose?

Hmmm....

Allow me to ponder your profound point while I ignore you.

[Cooley Hurd]

149. Enjoy your ignore list.

The last vestige of people who will not (or cannot) debate.

I've been here for 15 years, and have had NO one "on ignore". Ever.

[oberliner]

279. To expand her mailing list names and addresses

And to raise money for her party so she can continue to fight against Democrats.

She is continuing to bash Hillary on twitter daily.

[KittyWampus]

13. They had every right to do what they did. Unfortunately we all suffer. These leftwing deplorable

will NEVER admit their part in this tragedy.

And part of it lays on Sanders' head too.

Never released his taxes, spent the campaign whinging about rigged process.

[yardwork]

15. I totally agree. A bunch of people got played.

[Cooley Hurd]

16. No it doesn't...

Bernie campaigned for her.

[Dustlawyer]

78. The Hillary camp has to blame Bernie because they are afraid to look at their candidate

with objectivity. Some here will still claim that Hillary was the perfect candidate with no flaws, it is always someone else fault.

If we are to succeed in the future we must embrace the populist wave. Americans are tired of their politicians selling them out to big donors. To deny it or say that Democratic politicians are not swayed by the campaign donations because they are somehow immune to the effects of power and money is to bury your head in the sand!

Trump succeeded because he tapped the populism sweeping the country and received massive airtime the whole campaign. Our populist candidate was given almost no airtime other than to have the MSM, people like Tweety, only talk about him as a Socialist fringe candidate with no chance. It didn't help that the DNC and HRC's campaign colluded to defeat Bernie. So we picked the most "Establishment" candidate we had. We definitely did not have our best foot forward.

Hillary is obviously the better choice between her and Trump. She is very capable and experienced and she was well funded, especially since the DNC was giving her almost every dime of the Party fundraising in the Primary. She should still have won but for the MSM, Putin and Wikileaks, but she didn't.

To blamed Bernie for the loss is sour grapes and counter-productive to the effort to regain the House and Senate. We should be looking for the real causes and learning what to do, and not do, to accomplish our goals.

[Cooley Hurd]

84. We hoped Obama would reverse the drain of middle-class wealth started by Reagan...

He did SO MUCH good, but didn't completely stop that drain of wealth.

[bekkilyn]

125. +1 (nt)

[BobbyDrake]

19. The alt-left is a bag of shitbags. End of story.

They will own this forever, even as they try to deflect and deny it.

[colsohlibgal]

21. On The Other Hand

Hillary is closing in on a 3 million vote lead. So I would place blame more on the arcane Electoral College and the lack of any real push from the Democratic Party to do away with it after what ensued because of 2000.....trillions of additional debt, 100s of thousands dead or maimed, and the rise of ISIS.

I had issues with Hillary. I did not believe she could take all that cash from those Wall Street firms and then police them properly. I had issues with her Iraq vote. Overall my views are closer to Jill Stein.

But I understood the threat of Trump so I did vote for Hillary. I'm sure lots of others were like me.

Oh and I believe minus election hanky panky in key states Hillary would have won both ways.

Nobody is happy that dangerous loose cannon flake won.

[aikoaiko]

23. And all the folks who said we didn't need them. Hope they are happy, too.

Some Democrats in the primaries told them to fuck off and some did.

[Cooley Hurd]

31. +100

Yep.

As Skinner himself deemed them, "The Sore Winners"

[ismnotwasm]

47. No No No

We didn't need to waste time and resources chasing the votes of Nutjobs and self-delusional creeps who bathed in self righteousness every day. The Greens and the Bros actively campaigned against Hillary as hard as they could.

They can still fuck off.

[Cooley Hurd]

58. Um... aim elsewhere.

HRC was the favorite to win by every poll. The less-than 1% of Democrats who voted Green did so because the candidate's supporters drove them off, IMO.

[ismnotwasm]

77. Who am I "aiming" at?

There are a lot of people who voted for Trump--not just republican mouth breathers. Bernie supporters never drove me off from supporting Hillary. I'm afraid I don't understand.

We aren't exactly discussing Dems here.

[KG]

32. I lulz'd

[theaocp]

37. The beatings will continue until morale improves.

Fucking christ. Are there any more whiny posts about division people need to post? What in the fuck is this supposed to accomplish?

[NRaleighLiberal]

42. and you think these kinds of daily posts on DU are helpful?

This is a time to come together - so many here seem to want to keep us divided.

[Cooley Hurd]

55. Hippie-Punchers, Like Rust, Never Sleeps.

Good to see ya back!!!

[NRaleighLiberal]

57. thanks... this place is like a magnet, I guess - draws one back!

[Nevernose]

169. Some people post little except

Bernie bashing. While I believe many of the Bernie Bashers are genuine in their feelings, I doubt that all of them are.

Who has the most to gain from constant divisevness?

[Garion_55]

53. I wish hillary had never run again

If it had just been bernie, with all of the DNC and the party behind him, we wouldnt be talking about a president trump imo

[Calculating]

91. Him or just about any other qualified dem candidate

The only reason Trump won is because of all the baggage Hillary had. The Republicans had been plotting how to take her down for decades, and were salivating at the chance to run against her.

[Garion_55]

123. i agree 100% this was not an election about the issues

it wasnt a lib vs conservative who has the better ideas election. like cruz vs sanders would have been.

this was all about who was hated more, who had more baggage, who was going to get slimed more.

i figured after the pussy grabbing tape it was all over but people hated her even more than a sexual predator.

bernie vs trump would have been issues vs character.

[ejbr]

61. You forgot about

the 9% of Dems who actually voted for Trump. Do they deserve any disdain or is that reserved for the minuscule Greens?

[progressoid]

69. +1

[Red Oak]

62. Hillary was a poor candidate.

Hated to see her lose, but face it, she wasn't a very good candidate.

She lost to Trump for crying out loud.

She should have won this election going away even if she let the Russians count the votes.

[Cooley Hurd]

67. That salient fact seems to be lost on the Cult of Personality

[ismnotwasm]

73. She was a great candidate

See we simply disagree

[Gore1FL]

113. Great candidate for 2004, probably. nt

[ismnotwasm]

127. Oh dear.

[Red Oak]

251. And couldn't beat a Trump?

I don't think so.

[lunamagica]

237. She received millions an millions more votes than he did!

that salient fact is lost on the sanders cult of personality

[lunamagica]

236. She received three million more votes (and counting) than him!

Why are so many ignoring this fact?

[Red Oak]

250. Not ignoring it. That's great. She still lost.

It should have been a runaway, and would have been, if she had been a good candidate.

[lunamagica]

261. Anyone would have lost under the same circumstances

[Red Oak]

275. Really? Anyone would have lost? You are wrong.

The Presidential Candidate "they could've beaten a Trump" list:

Franklin Roosevelt won the popular vote by 17.8%

Ronald Reagan won by 18%

Teddy Roosevelt won by 19%

LBJ won by 23%

Richard Nixon won by 23%

Heck, Bill Clinton even won by 9%

Hillary couldn't even get 50% of the vote. She is at the GW Bush, Jimmy Carter level with a 2% "victory" if she had won the electoral college. I don't see many people thinking G.W. Bush or Jimmy Carter were good candidates, no matter how you might feel about their Presidencies.

She was, quite obviously to anyone that cares to actually think about it, NOT a good candidate. Female - yes, qualified - yes, and a poor candidate.

[lunamagica]

288. None of those you mentioned had to deal with voting machines, Assange and Russian hackers

[Red Oak]

289. You think Hillary had to deal with more than the others? Come on!

Let's see:

LBJ - the Vietnam war (maybe a tiny bit bigger issue than Assange, but did have Russians involved, so props there!)

Nixon - OMG, it's NIxon. Also the Vietnam war.

Reagan - A very poor economy. Had his Treasury and Fed raise interest rates to the highest they have ever been to fight stagflation.

FDR - That small thing called the Great depression, oh yeah, followed by World War Two. Bigger than Assange? Maybe. But you are right, the Russians were on his side, (wow -just like Trump!)

Teddy - massive issues with Trusts

Assange, Hackers, and voting machines aren't even in the same league.

While you are reading about history, look up how LBJ solved the voting problem. Funny as hell. The Repubs may have learned from the Dems. Nothing new under the sun.

Hillary Clinton was just simply a poor candidate and lost as a result. To Donald Trump! Good gosh.

[stonecutter357]

63. K&R!

[Saviolo]

75. I normally stay out of these threads, but holy shit

I just get so frustrated seeing them all the time.

Can we please stop blaming "the left" for this election loss? Just stop. Stop stop stop.

A bigger proportion of "BernieBros" voted for Hillary than "PUMAs" voted for Obama, so please stop it with the BoB crowd killing us. Also, Bernie campaigned for Hillary in a big way, and also attacked Trump in a big way. You think Jill Stein and Cornel West are happy to have a racist misogynist in the White House? You think ANYone on the left is happy about that? There was a tiny minority of so-called progressives who, after the primary, decided they wanted to go from one anti-establishment candidate to the other, despite their political positions on EVERYTHING being just about polar opposites. Do you really think that they were seriously politically plugged in? Or truly progressive? No, they thought it was cool to stir up shit, and that's the entire reason they decided to get interested in politics. They weren't lefties, they were trolls. Some people just want to watch the world burn.

If you want to lay blame on someone, put it where it belongs. The media absolutely killed the left on this election cycle. Millions of free dollars of advertising for Trump for MONTHS AND MONTHS! News cycles, phone calls, interviews, covering his empty podium while both Clinton and Sanders were ALREADY TALKING! The media barely looked at the Democrats except when there was still a race in the primaries. So long as Hillary and Bernie were still duking it out on the left, there would be some talk about it on the news. After the winner was clear and the left had a candidate, the media could say, "Wow, that's boring now. Check out this crazy thing Trump just said!!!!!"

Unless of course there was a scandal. So, y'know, emails, emails, emails, emails, emails, Benghazi just for variety, emails. There was next to no policy discussion at any time. All we got was Clinton Scandal!! vs. Wow, This Trump Fella's Pretty Wacky, Eh? All it did was fan the flames of those crazy right-wingers. The Tea Partiers, the White Nationalists, the White Supremacists, the racists, the deplorables, the Neo-Nazis, all under the soft marketing term of "Alt-Right." And the media gave fawning reports on them too!! Actual literal Neo-Nazis!

And here's the big kicker about how the media absolutely failed us, beat us up, and betrayed us: It doesn't have to be a conspiracy. I don't think it was, in most cases. I think the news outlets were trying to grab eyeballs to make as much money on ad revenue as possible, and damn the consequences. I don't think that all of the CEOs of the networks got together smoking cigars and chugging champagne to plan this, I think they just looked to see which way people were looking. Most of the public wanted to hear more about that wacky Trump fellow, so that's what the media gave them. They're in their death throes, revenue is tanking and newspapers are dying. They needed something, anything to remain relevant, so they aimed the camera at the baboon in an ill-fitting suit who kept spouting his loony catch phrases. There was no forethought. It was pure negligent ignorance in the pursuit of cash money that led the news outlets to do this.

Anyway, I've rambled on enough. Please, start pointing your scorn, attention, anger, and action to where it really needs to go. If the left devours itself, and tears itself into little tiny pieces, you're not going to see a Democratic president for a long time.

[ismnotwasm]

83. Cornel West is, indeed very happy

He said we are seeing the last of neo-liberalism.

This is what is happening; one "side" posts snark or an article or sheer anger--depending on what's happening. The other "side" rises to the defense--as you did here. Then, someone like me, who hasn't had their morning coffee decides to get involved because I feel the defense or is inaccurate or unfair. Then the other "side" does the same damn thing. All sides, feel that the discussion board is biased to the other. This has been going on for months now, and it will eventually slow. Or not.

Hopefully we will eventually start talking to one another.

[Saviolo]

95. Cornel West isn't happy about Trump

He may be relieved because he feels like what he thinks of as a dangerous neoliberal agenda is coming to an end, but he's terrified of what he calls Trump's neofascist rule. Here's a clip from an interview on DemocracyNow:

AMY GOODMAN: Well, your response to the election of Donald Trump and now the Cabinet he is appointing around him?

CORNEL WEST: Well, I think he’s already betrayed working people in terms of making sure, in his view, that Wall Street is in the driver’s seat. And what I mean by that is, is that in an emerging neofascist moment, you have the rule of big business, which is big banks and big corporations. You scapegoat the most vulnerable. It could be Muslims, Mexicans, gay brothers, lesbian sisters, indigenous peoples, black people, Jews and so on. And then you also have militaristic orientations around the world. And so, you see the extension of the repressive apparatus, as those of us who hit the streets, those of us who have been willing to go to jail, we’ve had to recognize we’ll have more coming at us under a Trump administration. But the crucial thing is, is that he had talked about his connection with working people, and it’s clear that the 1 percent are still running things.

NERMEEN SHAIKH: But you’ve also said—Dr. West, you just said that his administration will be neofascist.

CORNEL WEST: That’s right.

NERMEEN SHAIKH: Could you explain? What do you mean by that, neofascist as opposed to fascist, and what the two mean?

CORNEL WEST: Well, neofascist, it’s an American-style form of fascism. And what I mean by that is we’ve had a neoliberal rule, from Carter to Obama. That neoliberal rule left in place a national security state. It left in place massive surveillance. It left in place the ability of the president to kill an American citizen with no due process. That’s Obama. That was the culmination of the neoliberal era. Now you get someone who’s narcissistic, which is to say out of control psychologically, who is ideologically confused, which is to say in over his head. And who does he choose? The most right-wing, reactionary zealots, which lead toward the arbitrary deployment of law, which is what neofascism is, but to reinforce corporate interest, big bank interest, and to keep track of those of us who are cast as other—peoples of color, women, Jews, Arabs, Muslims, Mexicans and so forth and so on. So this is one of the most frightening moments in the history of this very fragile empire and fragile republic.

[ismnotwasm]

106. Mel culpa

He certainly sounded a bit gleeful to me. I read the same article

[DanTex]

88. "You think Jill Stein and Cornel West are happy to have a racist misogynist in the White House?"

I sure hope so, because this is exactly what they fought so hard for on the campaign trail: convincing the alt-left that there was no difference between Hillary and Trump in order to clear a path for Trump's victory. If this isn't what they wanted, their pre-election antics makes no sense whatsoever.

I wonder, now that they got their wish, do they still think there's no difference?

[Scruffy1]

167. Exactly

I know many "far left" people and even the ones I know usually refuse to vote voted for Hillary. Without the "left" there is nothing to distinguish the two parties. . The strange belief that all non affiliated voters are in the center is pure bullshit. If you want to win elections you need the "left". I would argue that what we call left now would have been "center" earlier in my lifetime. Without the left T-rump would have carried Minnesota, too. When you lose look in the mirror, not for balme.

[Skidmore]

185. What utter claptrap. nt

[FailureToCommunicate]

85. Oy veh

[Cha]

89. What's that?

[FailureToCommunicate]

96. The floggings will continue...untill morale improves

The 'Cat-o-nine-tails' was the preferred motivator on ships way back when apparently.

[Cha]

102. LOL.. perfect saying

to go along with it.. way back when.

[gordianot]

92. Thank you for all the solutions you offer.

Not laying blame, balancing the scale by bending it in the middle.

[workinclasszero]

100. Well thank God we don't have to worry about Hillary's emails anymore huh?

Susan Sarandon: Trump more likely to bring 'revolution' than Clinton

I'm sure Susan and her millionaire "revolutionaries" are all a twitter at the plight of the poor and the undocumented and the gay folks and the seniors who the republicans and Dump will be coming after with a vengeance starting next month.

It will amuse them greatly to see the suffering we will be forced to endure at the hands of Dumpf, no doubt.

The world looks good to them in their mansions and swimming pools full of one hundred dollar bills.

[Cooley Hurd]

109. There's one...

...any others you can name to support the OP?

[workinclasszero]

115. Jill Stein, Cornel West

And all of the denizens of JPR, just to name a few.

[Cooley Hurd]

122. *spittake*

I needed that. Thanks!

The JPR thing got me. I've been on DU for almost 14 yrs. Why are DU netizens so obsessed with that JPR clown car?

[Cha]

112. Whatevs, sarandon.. funny, she had a mention in my post, too, working..

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=8348440

It's despicable they're willing to sacrifice the poor and the Planet for their screwed up priorities.

[workinclasszero]

120. Yes Cha, Sarandon and her ilk have to kill the poor to save the poor

Isn't that noble of them?

[Cha]

128. Such nobility.. let them eat cake

I could be one of them.. I just hope for a miracle in our all our iives so they don't screw with people's SS, Medicare, SNAP and HUD help.. to name a few Gov Services that help those in need.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

142. Goldman has had it's claws into that gig for a while.

[Tragl1]

143. Troll

The OP poster is just gas lighting and trolling. No intelligent context to suppose his emotional click bait thread. Go write your shit on Brietbart.

[Cooley Hurd]

150. Welcome to DU!

I think the OP is misguided in their blame.

[Tragl1]

151. Thanks

Thanks I've been here for awhile but do not post much, but your welcoming sentiment is appreciated.

[democrank]

164. IF I may......

I just learned I'm part of the "Alt-Left" who are, in at least one reply here, "shitbags", a term apparently given to anyone who was not a Hillary supporter from the very first moment she declared her candidacy. This sounds like the kind of crap Karl Rove used to toss around during the Junior Bush years every time he detected even a hint of someone not walking the party line. Many DUers were offended by Rove's tactics back then and I'm offended by these "shitbag" tactics now.

Both my late other half, a Vietnam Vet, and I were solid Bernie backers. We deeply appreciated Bernie's long-standing support for veterans' issues and we agreed with his call for real change. The very first bumper sticker ( in 73 years) that my Vet put on his vehicle read .......BERNIE, 2016. As far as I'm concerned, this man who fought for his country and died from the results of Agent Orange, had the right to vote for Bernie....or anyone else he chose.

When the time came, I voted for Hillary Clinton, even though I wanted to write in Bernie's name for my other half, who never did get the chance to vote.

Now we have to move forward together and address something we can't blame on Bernie....our CONTINUING losses in the House, Senate, governorships and red states. There are reasons for those losses and we'd better face it. From my point of view, the solution isn't to continue to do the same things in the same way with the same people......and expect different results.

[DanTex]

166. No, that's not what "alt-left" means at all.

Plenty of great people supported any and all of the primary candidates. The problem isn't which primary candidate anyone supported. The problem is after the primary, the contingent that thought our nominee was no better than Trump, and made that point loudly.

Those people helped Trump become president, and did it knowingly.

I think Bernie shoulders some blame for the way he ran his anti-Hillary campaign, and also for not conceding for over a month after he was mathematically eliminated. His actions helped fire up and anger the alt-left.

But he finally did endorse and campaign for Hillary. Unlike Jill Stein, he didn't intentionally help Trump.

[ProgressIsLeft]

194. Blame Bernie? Primaries are supposed to be a fight

Seriously, Bernie doesn't deserve to shoulder a thing. This was a primary fight.
Remember this? Shall we blame POTUS too? When he hit Hillary on her track record and said "Senator Clinton is the same candidate who took more money than any other person". That sounds familiar doesn't it? This is how primaries are done. nobody deserves "special protection".

[DanTex]

199. Not all the blame, just some.

There's was no reason at all for him not to concede and endorse, at the very latest, a few days after he lost CA. The contest was over, but instead he kept talking nonsense about a "contested convention". He kept talking about how the superdelegates, who he previously detested, to overturn the overwhelming will of the voters and make him the nominee instead.

The other thing Bernie did is falsely blame the "establishment" for things that were actually the fault of the GOP. That played right into Trump's hands.

But I don't blame him that much because I don't think he was actively trying to help Trump win, like you said it was just a campaign. Jill Stein, on the other hand, was directly and intentionally helping Trump.

[ProgressIsLeft]

205. I disagree Dan, sorry

Hillary had a lot of attacks thrown at her for many years. Sadly her numbers ever went up and was always negative with favorables long before Bernie ever entered the race. If we go on that route then we have to lay blame to Obama as well when he called her out during 2007. It's all on YouTube for the world to see after all.

It's time to stop finger pointing and to start finding solutions. You can blame Bernie all you want but in the end, his hardcore supporters were right. It sucks but from here on out we start to fight for US not THEM! We need to elect Dems who are progressive and fight for all of us. We need more people like Warren and Bernie who champion FDR's causes.

[DanTex]

231. Her fav/unfav were about equal when Bernie entered the race. When she was SoS

she had very high favorables. I think it's willful ignorance to pretend that Bernie's primary attacks against her didn't play right into Trump's hands. And, regardless of what you think of his campaign, the fact that Bernie didn't concede and endorse as within a few days of losing CA is inexcusable. That was the time, like Hillary did in 2008, to say, OK, this is over, now we need to fight the real enemy. All his talk of "contested convention" was a big gift to Trump.

Speaking of finger pointing, you're doing it yourself. You're implying that Hillary wasn't progressive and wasn't fighting for us all, which is totally false.

[ProgressIsLeft]

263. When Bernie entered the race however nobody knew who he was

You have to keep that in mind. Hardly anybody knew him, it was at 2% of American's knew who Bernie was but 99% of American's knew who Hillary was. (Why it wasn't a 100% I don't know.)

You need to stop finger pointing; I've already illustrated how primaries go. Do you want some sort of special treatment for Hillary? What about O'Malley? He went after her pretty hard too. It seems to me you're looking for a scapegoat instead of looking at why she lost.

What I'm implying is that it's time to accept responsibility for Hillary's loss. It's done. The pathway forward is to manage to figure out how to let something so stupid never happen again. Does that make sense?

As far as what you consider false and what I do, it all depends from what POV you're coming from and where you are in life I suppose.

Now let's put the differences aside and concentrate on a path forward from here on out because all this infighting is what is really going to hurt us as a party. We're very split right now and we'll continue to lose as long as we are.

[SidDithers]

232. Welcome to DU...

Sid

[ProgressIsLeft]

264. Why thank you Sid :)

[Saviolo]

228. I said it during the primary, and I still believe it

Bernie staying in the race all the way to the convention was helpful for the Democratic party. As long as there was a race on the Democratic side of things, the media was going to keep talking about it, which gave much needed visibility to the left when the right dominated the news cycles for months on end, mostly because of Trump's verbal diarrhea. As soon as there was a winner declared in the Democratic primary, the media would have just said, "Okay, it's all done, this is boring, but WOAH!! Check out what Trump just said! Again!!!" So long as Bernie was holding on and in that race, the media could talk up the race as a pitched battle despite (as has been pointed out by a number of folks in this thread) the fact that it was NOT a particularly acrimonious primary.

If you really feel the need to blame someone, I feel like the media deserves the massive majority of the blame. Millions and millions of dollars worth of free advertising for Trump in the form of news cycles and coverage of his statements and pressers. Hell, they decided to cover an empty podium WAITING for Trump to show up instead of speeches by Bernie OR Hillary that were actually happening at the same time. The primary system is a part of the race and must take place, according to the system in place. The media giving massive amounts of free advertising to the GOP is NOT something that must take place, but seemingly has become part of the system. THAT'S what you've got to fight.

[Cooley Hurd]

174. "UPDATE: Exxon-Mobil CEO for Secretary of State!"

Really? Doubling down?

[DanTex]

176. I didn't pick him, Trump did. How do you think Jill Stein feels about the choice?

You think she realize how wrong she was about the "both parties"? Or do you think she knew she was lying from the beginning?

[Maru Kitteh]

178. PUTIN LACKEY and Exxon-Mobil CEO for SOS. Our democracy is FUCKED.

[Warpy]

180. Conservatives are NEVER happy

and bash everybody to the left of them.

I'm surprised this OP was allowed to stand.

[DanTex]

183. Umm, conservatives are happy now, thanks to the help that Greens and BoBs gave them.

The question is whether said Greens and BoBs are happy too.

Why would the post get taken down? I'm criticizing Trump supporters.

[Warpy]

198. I hate to have to point out the obvious

but Clinton won a popular majority. Trying to blame the loss on anyone to the left of you is not only futile, it makes you look even more foolish than the Nader bashers in 2000. If every Sanders and Stein supporter had stayed home, Clinton would have lost the popular vote by a landslide.

Shame on your OP.

[DanTex]

202. Yes, the electoral college needs to go.

Basically a repeat of 2000. The electoral college, with an assist from the alt-left, puts a right-winger in the White House. I hope we don't have to go through this again. Elections have consequences, I hope this time the alt-left learns that. Apparently the Iraq War and the economic collapse wasn't enough to wake them out of their "both parties" stupor.

[QC]

191. I'm not surprised at all. n/t

[Else You Are Mad]

189. I am no fan of the green party...

But, maybe we should be upset at Hillary because she failed to win them over before election day? The green party has as much loyalty to the Democratic party as we do to the Republican or libertarian party.

We failed in convincing the green party to vote for Hillary. It is childish and wrong to blame a party with separate polical beliefs for our lost. Instead, we should be blaming ourselves for not convincing them to vote for the Democratic party.

[DanTex]

204. True, a lot of Green voters and BoBs are ignorant sheep. I place more responsibility

on the alt-left media and people like Jill Stein and Cornel West that convinced them that there was no difference between the Dems and the GOP.

Obviously, there are things Hillary could have done better, but the big difference is that the alt-left and the Green Party were actively, and intentionally helping Trump become president by convincing people not to vote for Democrats. It wasn't an error on their part.

[Else You Are Mad]

207. Hillary should have...

Courted the alt-left (as you call them) like Trump courted the alt- right. Hillary was just like the MSM and rolled over and let Trump win. She should have been screaming at the top of her lungs that both the media and Trump was lying about her every time they covered her. Instead, she didn't. When the world is at stake, you don't stay quiet, you fight dirtier and yell louder.

[DanTex]

208. Maybe, maybe not. Courting the alt-left risks losing the center.

But like I said, there's a big difference between a mistake and intentional sabotage.

[Else You Are Mad]

209. Would you mind losing the center...

If Hillary won the election? The mistake was that Hillary thought she was invulnerable and thought the greens and independents would vote for her.

[DanTex]

212. Of course not. I'm just not sure it would have worked.

Sure, in retrospect I would change anything, whatever, because the result we got is horrible. But at the time, the campaign didn't know the future.

[Else You Are Mad]

217. If that were true, I wouldn't bead at Hillary for losing...

But, there were so many indications that her campaign was failing. There were rust belt state Democratic officials saying that Hillary wasn't reaching the working class. Hillary could have done what Trump did and spent time in the FORMALLY blue rust belt states trying to win over the voters. She didn't, Hillary sent some of her surrogates to those states, while she stayed close to the coasts. The polls said she was the second most hated politician in history, when the same polls said she was the most respected and admired woman two years ago. That was evidence she was losing, and Hillary did nothing to change the tide back to having people like her again. Towards the end, she just campaigned on the fact she wasn't as bad a Trump. She should have done what Bill and Obama did and go to the rust belt as often as possible and show she cared. She didn't and that is why she lost.

[DanTex]

219. Sure, her campaign wasn't great, and she was a flawed candidate.

That doesn't excuse the alt-lefties who actively worked to get Trump elected.

[Else You Are Mad]

222. But, that is their right.

Maybe we should have done a better job winning over the alt-left rather than courting the moderate Republicans and centrists that which alienated them. Had we done so, we would have won.

[DanTex]

224. If course it's their right, it doesn't make it any less reprehensible.

I'm not saying it's illegal for alt-lefties to support Trump, I'm just saying that they are scum for doing it.

[Else You Are Mad]

225. That I agree with.

They have no right to complain. They are just as awful as the right wing deplorables.

[BainsBane]

200. It's okay because the president appointing the Goldman execs

has a penis.

[SidDithers]

221. DU rec...

Sid

[forjusticethunders]

227. sadly it took leftists being thrown into concentration camps before this contingent got it.

We've been dealing with this since 1932, because they honestly think they can replicate the October Revolution if things break down enough (while showing how little they know about the October Revolution)

[killbotfactory]

235. Hillary got the popular vote.

If people in rust belt swing states didn't vote for her, that's on her and her campaign. They are the ones that went after the "reasonable republicans" who don't fucking exist.

[LostOne4Ever]

255. I disagree w/ the term alt left, but I do agree the BoBers & greens fucked everything up royally. NT

[Uponthegears]

258. I had a snarky reply up and self-deleted it

This stuff has to stop.

[NWCorona]

259. Just another finger pointing op

Why no mention of the mistakes from the campaign? It just came out that Sullivan was pleading with the campaign to ditch Texas and Arizona and focus on the crucial swing states that Hillary lost.

[J_William_Ryan]

276. Too funny...

"alt-left"

lol

[oberliner]

281. Jill Stein is an avowed enemy of Hillary Clinton and the Democratic Party

And is as much in the pocket of Putin as Trump is.

[KPN]

287. Must be nice to have what Trump has:

the unlimited ability to deflect responsibility and blame others when something goes wildly wrong.

[Gothmog]

290. It is going to be a tough four years

[R B Garr]

291. Agreed, they all got played for fools as Trump makes it obvious he just manipulated

Bernie's sensationalism and used it to con them. Look at these picks! They are as in-your-face as they could possibly be.

This is real proof at how the divisive primary cost Democrats. A true con man like Donald was able see how to perpetuate Bernie's divisive methods within the Democratic party to his own advantage. Truly horrible what was done to our party.