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question everything

(47,437 posts)
Sun Dec 11, 2016, 10:04 PM Dec 2016

In a rare rebuttal, CIA is pushing back

From the WSJ story

(snip)

Intelligence officials pushed back Sunday for the first time against Mr. Trump’s criticism, a rare rebuttal against an American elected official.

“It’s concerning that intelligence on Russian actions related to the U.S. election is being dismissed out of hand as false or politically partisan,” a U.S. intelligence official said in a written statement.

"The inclination to ignore such intelligence and impugn the integrity of U.S. intelligence officials is contrary to all that is sacred to national-security professionals who work day and night to protect this country.”

U.S. intelligence agencies have rarely been at odds with the commander-in-chief, or an incoming president, over their assessment of a key American adversary. While the assessments during the George W. Bush administration of Iraqi weapons proved wrong, they weren’t the subject of such a public back and forth.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/trump-blames-democrats-for-reports-of-russia-hacking-1481467907

117 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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In a rare rebuttal, CIA is pushing back (Original Post) question everything Dec 2016 OP
High-drama clusterfuck already cilla4progress Dec 2016 #1
Stocking my liquor cabinet weekly. sarcasmo Dec 2016 #3
LOL! Me too. Cheers. Missn-Hitch Dec 2016 #38
I may need to buy another fridge. Mr. Evil Dec 2016 #43
Indeed. I have two - one mini in the garage, but scotch is kept at room temp. Missn-Hitch Dec 2016 #45
Speaking of which DK504 Dec 2016 #84
One fridge for beer only. sarcasmo Dec 2016 #112
Better learn to make your own hooch--Hair Furor is allegedly a teetotaler. MADem Dec 2016 #57
snort, I don't think so wordpix Dec 2016 #77
Shit, you're right, dude's a teetotaler just like his hero IronLionZion Dec 2016 #106
Hitler was high on meth for years. lagomorph777 Dec 2016 #111
Damn Joke Freeman0311 Dec 2016 #39
Do not clump THE CIA with the FBI. The CIA did nothing wrong. AgadorSparticus Dec 2016 #55
Joke Freeman0311 Dec 2016 #63
thank you!!! tomp Dec 2016 #66
Right now, they are trying to preserve the Republic. You may not trust them AgadorSparticus Dec 2016 #89
Joke Freeman0311 Dec 2016 #92
Your "joke" in the subject line is like trump saying "wrong" at the debate AgadorSparticus Dec 2016 #95
Joke Freeman0311 Dec 2016 #104
The CIA never claimed WMD's. Dr Hobbitstein Dec 2016 #105
Response Freeman0311 Dec 2016 #109
How about the approach of ShakeWell Dec 2016 #114
Response Freeman0311 Dec 2016 #115
write to EC: http://www.asktheelectors.org wordpix Dec 2016 #75
It is epic. Unchartered. Bizarro world. Beyond the threat to our sovereignty, I cannot imagine zonkers Dec 2016 #117
... Buckeye_Democrat Dec 2016 #2
I have been trying to meditate daily... pbmus Dec 2016 #4
As have I. bettyellen Dec 2016 #10
Yes, I am relearning to spend more time in that calm center. NBachers Dec 2016 #29
I need to start, and sadly, I'll have to tune out the daily ecstatic Dec 2016 #49
Hahaha GatorDem82 Dec 2016 #83
Welcome to DU pbmus Dec 2016 #108
Se response #3 above (wink, n/t) PJMcK Dec 2016 #88
Praying for a miracle. WomanWhoRoars Dec 2016 #5
Praying for a wiretap Jean-Jacques Roussea Dec 2016 #6
Yeah, me too. n/t LisaM Dec 2016 #26
The Hamilton Electors! kennetha Dec 2016 #7
they could start by releasing his taxes.nt. drray23 Dec 2016 #27
try this instead..... pangaia Dec 2016 #34
I saw a shooting star the other night and hoped the same thing... mnhtnbb Dec 2016 #67
They are pushing back against Putin. Trump is a puppet. McCamy Taylor Dec 2016 #8
It should come out in order to save us from being blackmailed - but I do think Trumps real motive is bettyellen Dec 2016 #13
I'm thinking he has in mind to expand the military to provide security for his foreign "investments" classof56 Dec 2016 #22
There is unlimited opportunity internationally- oil drilling in the arctic and shipping down the bettyellen Dec 2016 #24
"Getting to where words can't really express my fears." CrispyQ Dec 2016 #28
We can write letters, make calls, petitions, do all of that, but someone with major authority has RKP5637 Dec 2016 #52
totally agree wordpix Dec 2016 #85
profit and narcissism pangaia Dec 2016 #35
profit motive wins the Bingo wordpix Dec 2016 #79
Trump wouldn't care about a sex tape Liberty Belle Dec 2016 #14
I agree--didn't see your post before adding my similar one. spooky3 Dec 2016 #42
agree 100%, except mopinko Dec 2016 #20
You can't blackmail a narcissist Nevernose Dec 2016 #32
Why do some people think that having evidence of a sexual indiscretion would be powerful? spooky3 Dec 2016 #41
what's crazy here is treestar Dec 2016 #78
There were credible allegations before the election that Trump raped a KingCharlemagne Dec 2016 #99
Yeap, this isn't going away quietly in the night and the CIA isn't a group of folk to be fucked with uponit7771 Dec 2016 #9
Never thought I'd side with Langley in my life...but... roamer65 Dec 2016 #19
I never expected the country would be destroyed by the government. TNNurse Dec 2016 #11
The government's just the hammer Plucketeer Dec 2016 #16
+1 Duppers Dec 2016 #60
K&R... spanone Dec 2016 #12
This useless fuck is gonna gut everything Plucketeer Dec 2016 #15
He and his ignorant crowd lapfog_1 Dec 2016 #48
1%'rs only need the Pentagon for protecting their empires harun Dec 2016 #101
the president elect is taking sides with Russia over our own intelligence community Takket Dec 2016 #17
You're absolutely correct, this is TREASON onetexan Dec 2016 #50
USSA under Trump is next wordpix Dec 2016 #82
My 90 year old aunt in El Paso mountain grammy Dec 2016 #18
I'm so damn pissed mountain grammy. I'm 68 and distraught, but montana_hazeleyes Dec 2016 #61
Hugs to you too, Montana, mountain grammy Dec 2016 #71
In a way I'm grateful that I'm old. Ligyron Dec 2016 #90
I must say that at least once a day. mountain grammy Dec 2016 #91
The US intell community was right about WMD OldRedneck Dec 2016 #21
AND those jerks put Porter Gross in charge, ReverendHeretic Dec 2016 #25
For god's sake remember Scott Ridder trying to get the YOHABLO Dec 2016 #31
That's mostly how I remember it mercuryblues Dec 2016 #40
Yeap, Pelosi tweeted recently it was Tenet that said it was a slam dunk uponit7771 Dec 2016 #59
Tenet adamantly denies he said that mercuryblues Dec 2016 #69
Even more clarity for that time, Cheney is a fuckin liar but neither claim it wasn't said at all uponit7771 Dec 2016 #70
Cherry picked it and then stove-piped it, bypassing the KingCharlemagne Dec 2016 #102
Yes they did mercuryblues Dec 2016 #110
Thanks for this, OldRedneck NastyRiffraff Dec 2016 #74
Don't forget Douglas Feith, whom General Tommy Franks, himself no KingCharlemagne Dec 2016 #100
Dear God in heaven, Trump is such a fool. blue neen Dec 2016 #23
This could be the Dumpster's undoing. A lot of Republican's respect the CIA's role more than Nitram Dec 2016 #30
agree wordpix Dec 2016 #86
Certainly Jack Kennedy learned the hard way ... FraDon Dec 2016 #96
K & R FailureToCommunicate Dec 2016 #33
This has me thinking.. flamingdem Dec 2016 #36
Pelosi said this was wrong: "While the assessments during the George W. Bush administration of Iraqi spooky3 Dec 2016 #37
"While the assessments during the George W. Bush administration of Iraqi weapons proved wrong..." SunSeeker Dec 2016 #44
Thank you, SunSeeker! Big shock trump's Lying Again.. & did the M$M call him on it? Cha Dec 2016 #64
Like! Bout time one of our institutions grew some CAJONES against Don the Con. n/t iluvtennis Dec 2016 #46
yes it is wordpix Dec 2016 #81
Not just a rebuttal, a PUBLIC rebuttal bucolic_frolic Dec 2016 #47
A criminal doesn't want his crimes investigated. alfredo Dec 2016 #51
Trumper logic: He isn't a politician and at least he speaks his mind. Feeling the Bern Dec 2016 #53
Good Lord, this moron thinks he can take on the CIA. And come out alive? Tatiana Dec 2016 #54
Exactly what my hubs said. Duppers Dec 2016 #62
He thinks he is smarter than they are treestar Dec 2016 #80
When Stalin was told by the KGB DonCoquixote Dec 2016 #56
Someone in the IRS needs to grow a Deep Throat. WheelWalker Dec 2016 #58
Yeah, Please proceed turnip head.. take on the CIA.. Cha Dec 2016 #65
K&R secondwind Dec 2016 #68
Not particularly fond of spooks... malthaussen Dec 2016 #72
Was the CIA in line with W? stevepal Dec 2016 #73
recall Pres Cheney cherry picked the info he wanted from CIA wordpix Dec 2016 #87
There was the Office of Special Plans NewJeffCT Dec 2016 #94
Remember, too, Cheney would visit the CIA, & harass them when dmr Dec 2016 #103
things are crazy treestar Dec 2016 #76
Got any of those Castro tricks left? Big_K Dec 2016 #93
The CIA and the FBI have NEVER gotten along. YoungDemCA Dec 2016 #97
CIA vs. Trump - A plague on both your houses. - nt KingCharlemagne Dec 2016 #98
That's the thing right? Who among us can say the CIA *doesn't* need to be reined in a tad? AtheistCrusader Dec 2016 #107
There was hacking into the DNC during the primaries, with the assistance Thinkingabout Dec 2016 #113
let's hope AlexSFCA Dec 2016 #116

MADem

(135,425 posts)
57. Better learn to make your own hooch--Hair Furor is allegedly a teetotaler.
Mon Dec 12, 2016, 12:58 AM
Dec 2016

He just may decide to force us all to follow in his footsteps, Dear Leader that he is.

We'll all be thinning our hair and styling it in absurd, cotton-candy colored comb-overs, and doing way too much coke or meth or whatever the hell they (sniff) have him on.

IronLionZion

(45,380 posts)
106. Shit, you're right, dude's a teetotaler just like his hero
Mon Dec 12, 2016, 02:18 PM
Dec 2016

and doesn't even allow it in house. Melania has to go out to get a drink. Damn! I don't trust a president who can't/won't enjoy a good American beer or whiskey. It's un-American.

Hitler at least drank non-alcoholic German beer.

lagomorph777

(30,613 posts)
111. Hitler was high on meth for years.
Mon Dec 12, 2016, 04:21 PM
Dec 2016

It was invented in pre-war Germany and spread like wildfire. They passed it around to the troops; it fueled the Blitzkrieg. It took years for the Brits to figure it out after finding it on a dead Nazi pilot.

 

Freeman0311

(25 posts)
39. Damn Joke
Sun Dec 11, 2016, 11:43 PM
Dec 2016

Between the FBI, CIA and this whole election bs we're getting set up but again.

As a progressive I don't trust the CIA or anything that comes out of thier politicized mouths...after the FBI setting us up like they did I'm running out of agency's that are trustworthy.

Now with Trump coming into office on a bed of lies (dividing the country so well) it is kinda of scary to think he will be guy directing the above agencies to do God knows what.

I'm sick of getting toyed with.

AgadorSparticus

(7,963 posts)
55. Do not clump THE CIA with the FBI. The CIA did nothing wrong.
Mon Dec 12, 2016, 12:43 AM
Dec 2016

FBI on the other hand has shown its partisan politics and that they have been compromised.

 

Freeman0311

(25 posts)
63. Joke
Mon Dec 12, 2016, 02:32 AM
Dec 2016

The CIA is a political animal under each administration with a history of making up news, facts whatever they need to further thier nefarious agenda..how soon we forget about WMD's, torture, the drone killings of Americans and innocent civilians abroad.

They cannot be trusted regardless of which side they try and promote today because of the above.

I'll listen, but they'll have to go a long why for me to trust them..would have been nice of them to release this information when Hillary could have won versus after the fact.

That inaction alone speaks quite loudly I think.

AgadorSparticus

(7,963 posts)
89. Right now, they are trying to preserve the Republic. You may not trust them
Mon Dec 12, 2016, 11:38 AM
Dec 2016

But you should be able to judge each action on their own merits. Don't trust them. That is your prerogative. But we KNEW of Russians involvement prior to November. Trump and his entourage were all paid and supported by Russia. Nothing about the election makes sense. Doesn't take much to deduce that shit ain't right.

So while the CIA is trying to point out some obvious shit, the FBI releases a nothing burger about clinton's email. So no. They are not the same.

 

Freeman0311

(25 posts)
92. Joke
Mon Dec 12, 2016, 12:16 PM
Dec 2016

I must humbly disagree as both agencies didn't do what they were supposed to do to "Protect the Republic" when it mattered.
BOTH agencies only did what was politically expedient for them...the Republic's interest were not even considered by virtue of thier actions.

 

Freeman0311

(25 posts)
104. Joke
Mon Dec 12, 2016, 02:08 PM
Dec 2016

When your inference is lacking.....resort to insults?

Not very progressive of you.

Let's work togther solving problems and getting the unity message out instead of flaming differences of opinions between people with the same goal.

Peace


 

Dr Hobbitstein

(6,568 posts)
105. The CIA never claimed WMD's.
Mon Dec 12, 2016, 02:08 PM
Dec 2016

In fact, it was the CIA intelligence reports that Ted Kennedy read that caused him to vote against the IWR. BushCo claimed WMD, the CIA does not. Matter of fact, most of your complaints were not CIA, but BushCo's dealings.

 

Freeman0311

(25 posts)
109. Response
Mon Dec 12, 2016, 02:57 PM
Dec 2016

To your point yes..but it goes a little further then that.

http://m.motherjones.com/politics/2015/05/michael-morell-bush-cheney-iraq-war

The CIA didn't stop the use of or misrepresentation of thier report to the point of letting an illegal war take shape.
Point of fact: once again..now..like then, they only come clean after the fact.

All I'm saying (in IMO not trying to say your wrong I'm right) we shouldn't kill the messenger, but we definitely need to remind ourselves of the messengers credibility and capacity to help spin false narratives.
We need to remember how the messenger has a proven capacity to come clean only after damage has been done...and rewarding that doesn't help prevent the next they could have rigged but zagged crisis.

We're progressives, not the tinfoil Bubba group..we verify, then trust before blindly parroting things because it fits OUR suspicions.

ShakeWell

(28 posts)
114. How about the approach of
Mon Dec 12, 2016, 08:36 PM
Dec 2016

...the enemy of my enemy is my friend?

Many people on this board have varied level of concerns about the over reach of our government sponsored world police (CIA, NSA, FBI, DHS). However, the fbi and cia have shown exemplary service to our nation over the years with many whom have given the ultimate sacrifice.

Have these departments caused more harm than good and how the organizations should be run is a discussion this country needs.

Yet, right now, I'll take any help we can get against this crapfest of an election which leads to Cheetolini.
 

Freeman0311

(25 posts)
115. Response
Mon Dec 12, 2016, 09:14 PM
Dec 2016

Cheetolini lmfao that's the best..I'm warning you right now I'm going to use it.

Well played sir or maam

 

zonkers

(5,865 posts)
117. It is epic. Unchartered. Bizarro world. Beyond the threat to our sovereignty, I cannot imagine
Mon Dec 12, 2016, 09:34 PM
Dec 2016

the economic cost of this crisis.

ecstatic

(32,653 posts)
49. I need to start, and sadly, I'll have to tune out the daily
Mon Dec 12, 2016, 12:23 AM
Dec 2016

clusterfucks if I plan to make it through this with my sanity. What's the point of being aware if there isn't anything I can do to stop it?

GatorDem82

(36 posts)
83. Hahaha
Mon Dec 12, 2016, 11:01 AM
Dec 2016

I read that as trying to medicate daily.... I think I may have to do just that because meditation won't work for this clusterf.

pangaia

(24,324 posts)
34. try this instead.....
Sun Dec 11, 2016, 11:34 PM
Dec 2016

It is what I am doing....

Call/email the White House
Call Attorneys General
Contact Reps...
Write letters to editors.
Contact broadcast media.
Join groups fighting the coup.
Contribute $$ if you can.
Post on social media.
Join protests, marches, strikes, boycotts.
any other type of civil disobedience. .
PROTEST any way possible...

Anything else you might think of...

THE SOUTH KOREANS JUST DID IT!!!!!!!!!!

BRAVO 대한민국 !!!

mnhtnbb

(31,374 posts)
67. I saw a shooting star the other night and hoped the same thing...
Mon Dec 12, 2016, 07:43 AM
Dec 2016

that he would finally flame out before he could hit and damage us all.

McCamy Taylor

(19,240 posts)
8. They are pushing back against Putin. Trump is a puppet.
Sun Dec 11, 2016, 10:39 PM
Dec 2016

The CIA is very good at pushing back against foreign nationals. Indeed, their forte is their ability to push back against foreign nationals.

If they really want to push back, they will find out what kind of blackmail Putin is holding over Trump's head---probably a sexual indiscretion caught on tape or video---and threaten to release it if Trump/Pence do not step down.

 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
13. It should come out in order to save us from being blackmailed - but I do think Trumps real motive is
Sun Dec 11, 2016, 10:42 PM
Dec 2016

Profit. He is currently normalizing the idea that he an use the office to profit too. Next he'll be telling us the deals that enrich him are win-win for the country and his supporters won't feel like they have any choice but to believe him.

classof56

(5,376 posts)
22. I'm thinking he has in mind to expand the military to provide security for his foreign "investments"
Sun Dec 11, 2016, 11:03 PM
Dec 2016

Not original with me, but does make some sort of sick sense as I contemplate the notion.

I am truly afraid of what he is bringing down upon us, and if the CIA can save us from this fate, I'll be grateful.

Getting to where words can't really express my fears. Glad I have DU to turn to.

Peace.

 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
24. There is unlimited opportunity internationally- oil drilling in the arctic and shipping down the
Sun Dec 11, 2016, 11:08 PM
Dec 2016

Northwest passage. Eastern Europe and Syria also given to Russia. Tarrifs to China and maybe a partnership with Russia to produce the goods instead. Africa? Screwing around with India and Pakistan? I don't think he'd leave much untouched unless he is reigned in quickly.

CrispyQ

(36,424 posts)
28. "Getting to where words can't really express my fears."
Sun Dec 11, 2016, 11:15 PM
Dec 2016

I keep thinking, certainly someone with some authority will do something. We're running out of time.

RKP5637

(67,088 posts)
52. We can write letters, make calls, petitions, do all of that, but someone with major authority has
Mon Dec 12, 2016, 12:30 AM
Dec 2016

to step up and do something really major.

wordpix

(18,652 posts)
79. profit motive wins the Bingo
Mon Dec 12, 2016, 10:57 AM
Dec 2016

Grand Oligarchs' Party = GOP, part of worldwide international oligarchs' party

Liberty Belle

(9,533 posts)
14. Trump wouldn't care about a sex tape
Sun Dec 11, 2016, 10:42 PM
Dec 2016

(unless it's with a minor). My best would be if he's being blackmailed, it's financial crimes --maybe bribery of officials

mopinko

(70,023 posts)
20. agree 100%, except
Sun Dec 11, 2016, 10:53 PM
Dec 2016

they could be even more covert and sneaky and lean on him to turn electors, if they hurry.
i think the electors must be shown the evidence to the maximum extent possible. if we are able to govern ourselves at all, that will be enough.

this being the real world, get the right people to ask the right people to do the right thing in just the right way. if you get my drift. dont tell me they dont know who the weak links are. like, um, mich, pa, wis...
start w all the little podunk towns this snake oil show went through. i dont think the were looking for votes, i think they were looking for patsies and crooks to help them steal it. at 5 a day, in just the right counties, which, btw, paul manafort was pointing out right before the election, only needed 80k votes. votes which evaporate quickly in the light of day.
yeah, i wanna see THEIR emails.

and i want electors pictures all over the teevee, too. anonymous no more.

Nevernose

(13,081 posts)
32. You can't blackmail a narcissist
Sun Dec 11, 2016, 11:27 PM
Dec 2016

And, with this Congress, he's essentially immune to any consequence. You can't blackmail someone that literally cannot feel shame.

The best an American patriot can hope for is that they can find some connection between Russia and his closest associates (Jared, Ivanka, the Breitbart guy whose name I forget).

spooky3

(34,407 posts)
41. Why do some people think that having evidence of a sexual indiscretion would be powerful?
Sun Dec 11, 2016, 11:45 PM
Dec 2016

Trump was very open about not only indiscretions but possible criminal assault, and enough people were unconcerned that he was elected anyway.

Unless there would be something involving a child I can't imagine what might be used to manipulate Trump at this point.

Much more likely to me (if Putin has anything to blackmail Trump with) seems to be financial entanglements and serious criminal behavior involving Russian agents.

treestar

(82,383 posts)
78. what's crazy here is
Mon Dec 12, 2016, 10:56 AM
Dec 2016

we need to learn what Russian interests are. Would they do that? How would it benefit them? THere's an argument the Russians want a malleable, blackmail-able Trump in the office so they can conquer back all the old Soviet Republics without pushback from the US.

 

KingCharlemagne

(7,908 posts)
99. There were credible allegations before the election that Trump raped a
Mon Dec 12, 2016, 12:50 PM
Dec 2016

13-year-old girl awhile back. (The plaintiff in the civil case, the erstwhile 13-year-old allegedly raped by Trump, reportedly settled out of court and is under a gag - npi - order now.)

Pedophiles supposedly never change their stripes and so I'm guessing if Trump did it once, he did it several times, one or more of which rapes may be on tape.

I feel very badly for all of Trump's various former victims but especially so for those who were under age and so completely at the mercy of a mericiless and remorseless sadistic psychopath.

 

Plucketeer

(12,882 posts)
16. The government's just the hammer
Sun Dec 11, 2016, 10:47 PM
Dec 2016

it's the "stupids" that voted for this who are gonna wield it's blows.

 

Plucketeer

(12,882 posts)
15. This useless fuck is gonna gut everything
Sun Dec 11, 2016, 10:44 PM
Dec 2016

but the Pentagon. I remember the old line from basic training - Light 'em if ya got 'em - referring to a cigarette break. With Trump it'll be "Launch 'em if ya got 'em!"

lapfog_1

(29,194 posts)
48. He and his ignorant crowd
Mon Dec 12, 2016, 12:16 AM
Dec 2016

have already announced that they want to do away with the Dept of Energy.

That's because they have no clue what the DOE actually does. They think it has to do with renewables or something (DOE does have the NREL, but that is very minor).

harun

(11,348 posts)
101. 1%'rs only need the Pentagon for protecting their empires
Mon Dec 12, 2016, 12:58 PM
Dec 2016

Chaos in other areas just provides more cheap labor, low inflation and profit opportunities.

Takket

(21,529 posts)
17. the president elect is taking sides with Russia over our own intelligence community
Sun Dec 11, 2016, 10:48 PM
Dec 2016

Hello?????????? America??? Are you seeing this?? People should be filling the streets in protest!!!!!!!!!!!

onetexan

(13,024 posts)
50. You're absolutely correct, this is TREASON
Mon Dec 12, 2016, 12:25 AM
Dec 2016

so the orange idiot and his minions who colluded with the Russians need to be charged and tried.

mountain grammy

(26,598 posts)
18. My 90 year old aunt in El Paso
Sun Dec 11, 2016, 10:52 PM
Dec 2016

has been calling me every four days, but she thinks she's only calling once a week. She's distraught and calls me to talk her down and to laugh at stupid fake news, while we want to cry.
I'm so glad she calls, my husband is tired of listening to me.

montana_hazeleyes

(3,424 posts)
61. I'm so damn pissed mountain grammy. I'm 68 and distraught, but
Mon Dec 12, 2016, 01:32 AM
Dec 2016

to think of 90 year olds going through this! I'm so sorry. Hug your auntie for me. And you too.

mountain grammy

(26,598 posts)
71. Hugs to you too, Montana,
Mon Dec 12, 2016, 09:53 AM
Dec 2016

I just had my 69th birthday and marching on Washington on 1/21/17 for the second time in my life. My aunt says she wishes she could go with me. and I wish she could too.

Ligyron

(7,616 posts)
90. In a way I'm grateful that I'm old.
Mon Dec 12, 2016, 11:40 AM
Dec 2016

It's just going to be sad to watch America die before I do.

But, the kids...

 

OldRedneck

(1,397 posts)
21. The US intell community was right about WMD
Sun Dec 11, 2016, 10:55 PM
Dec 2016

The US intell community told the Bush junta there were no WMD. However, senior members of the Bush crowd believed otherwise -- Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz and Cheney. They were seduced by Ahmed Chalabi, an Iraqi ex-patriate living in luxury on the Riveria and feeding lies and bullshit to Cheney. DIA and CIA both told the White House to drop Chalabi like a bad habit. However, policy people (Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Cheney) love "defectors" and ex-pats. The intell people don't trust them.

Cheney cherry-picked information from the CIA. Colin Powell was forced to make his bullshit presentation before the UN. Later, Powell would describe that presentation as the low point in his career.

The intell people were right. The policy shitheads had made up their minds and did not want to be confused with facts.

History repeats itself.

 

YOHABLO

(7,358 posts)
31. For god's sake remember Scott Ridder trying to get the
Sun Dec 11, 2016, 11:27 PM
Dec 2016

message out that there were no WMD and the Bush admin was going into Iraq anyway. Again we can't seem to shake this country up to understand what's at stake here. We've simply been had. We should be out in the street demanding recounts, demanding thorough investigations and hearings. I fear we're going to be in great danger as of Jan.20. What say you?

mercuryblues

(14,525 posts)
69. Tenet adamantly denies he said that
Mon Dec 12, 2016, 09:42 AM
Dec 2016

I believe him on that. Cheney is the one who originally said he said that. He has admitted larger blunders, but denies that.

Tenet scrub mentions of WMD's out of 2 of Bush's speeches. Then came the SOTU address. Even then the CIA did not come out and publically say differently. They are with the trump/Russia connection.


The white house cherry picked the information to suit their needs. Good intelligence was ignored by the WH. Much of the intelligence from Chalabi AKA curveball came through the Pentagon and not the CIA, who had labeled him as unreliable. When Joe Wilson countered this information his wife, Valerie Plame, was outed as a CIA agent. That sent a very clear message to the CIA to get on board or lose more agents and networks. Tenet got on the war train. It might have been the caboose but he was on it, none the less.

2/4/03
After reading draft of Powell's speech, CIA agent emails his superior with concerns about "the validity of the information based on 'CURVE BALL.'" Noting he's the only US agent to have ever met Curveball (who was hung over at the time), the agent asks: "We sure didn't give much credence to this report when it came out. Why now?" Deputy head of CIA's Iraqi Task Force responds: "Let's keep in mind the fact that this war's going to happen regardless of what Curveball said or didn't say…the Powers That Be probably aren't terribly interested in whether Curveball knows what he's talking about." [Date the public knew: 7/9/04]

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2011/12/leadup-iraq-war-timeline


 

KingCharlemagne

(7,908 posts)
102. Cherry picked it and then stove-piped it, bypassing the
Mon Dec 12, 2016, 01:00 PM
Dec 2016

proessinal vetting by the CIA and taking it straight to the White 's Iraq Working Group.

mercuryblues

(14,525 posts)
110. Yes they did
Mon Dec 12, 2016, 03:24 PM
Dec 2016

Then Cheney and Bush blamed the bad information on the CIA. Even then the CIA did not come out and say at the time "oh no we di'int." They knew much of the intelligence came from unreliable sources that they had nothing to do with. For them to come out and say Yes, Russia did this and own it so publically means they are sure. It also means they aren't telling us everything.

NastyRiffraff

(12,448 posts)
74. Thanks for this, OldRedneck
Mon Dec 12, 2016, 10:51 AM
Dec 2016

I knew that the intel community had it right about the WMD; I just couldn't remember all the details (Chalabi for example). The Iraq war was what we got as a result of intel being ignored or manipulated by Cheney et al.

 

KingCharlemagne

(7,908 posts)
100. Don't forget Douglas Feith, whom General Tommy Franks, himself no
Mon Dec 12, 2016, 12:57 PM
Dec 2016

rocket scientist, called "the dumbest fucking guy on the planet."

Nitram

(22,768 posts)
30. This could be the Dumpster's undoing. A lot of Republican's respect the CIA's role more than
Sun Dec 11, 2016, 11:19 PM
Dec 2016

...they respect Trump. A president-elect that doesn't take advice from the professionals in the intelligence community that serve him its playing with fire.

spooky3

(34,407 posts)
37. Pelosi said this was wrong: "While the assessments during the George W. Bush administration of Iraqi
Sun Dec 11, 2016, 11:40 PM
Dec 2016

Iraqi weapons proved wrong, they weren’t the subject of such a public back and forth." She said the intelligence community was not wrong; their work was misrepresented to Congress by the Bush administration.

I suppose if you took a Nixonian approach to the Wall Street Journal's wording, technically the article does not say that the intelligence officials' work "proved wrong" but that is the implication, by drawing a parallel between that situation and the present one.

SunSeeker

(51,520 posts)
44. "While the assessments during the George W. Bush administration of Iraqi weapons proved wrong..."
Sun Dec 11, 2016, 11:51 PM
Dec 2016

Yes, the Bush administration's assessment was wrong, not the CIA's. The CIA's intelligence did not confirm WMDs.

The CIA never said there were WMDs in Iraq.

The thing is, the Iraq War was not the result of an intelligence goof — rather, the country’s top office systematically misled the public about Iraq’s nonexistent WMD program, as well as Saddam Hussein’s link to Al Qaeda.

On Tuesday night, former CIA Deputy Director and Bush’s intelligence briefer Michael Morell appeared on MSNBC’s “Hardball,” where he, under an amount of good cable news duress, admitted that the administration intentionally misrepresented intelligence.


http://www.salon.com/2015/05/20/george_w_bushs_cia_briefer_admits_iraq_wmd_intelligence_was_a_lie/

Cha

(296,873 posts)
64. Thank you, SunSeeker! Big shock trump's Lying Again.. & did the M$M call him on it?
Mon Dec 12, 2016, 02:59 AM
Dec 2016

No.

Yes, the Bush administration's assessment was wrong, not the CIA's. The CIA's intelligence did not confirm WMDs.

The CIA never said there were WMDs in Iraq.

The thing is, the Iraq War was not the result of an intelligence goof — rather, the country’s top office systematically misled the public about Iraq’s nonexistent WMD program, as well as Saddam Hussein’s link to Al Qaeda.

On Tuesday night, former CIA Deputy Director and Bush’s intelligence briefer Michael Morell appeared on MSNBC’s “Hardball,” where he, under an amount of good cable news duress, admitted that the administration intentionally misrepresented intelligence.

http://www.salon.com/2015/05/20/george_w_bushs_cia_briefer_admits_iraq_wmd_intelligence

turnip head needs to call out bush2 on this.


bucolic_frolic

(43,063 posts)
47. Not just a rebuttal, a PUBLIC rebuttal
Mon Dec 12, 2016, 12:13 AM
Dec 2016

They say Presidents have limits on what they are permitted to do
by the national security establishment

This point of friction will not go away easily

 

Feeling the Bern

(3,839 posts)
53. Trumper logic: He isn't a politician and at least he speaks his mind.
Mon Dec 12, 2016, 12:36 AM
Dec 2016

It's going to be a looooooooooooooooooooooong four years.

Tatiana

(14,167 posts)
54. Good Lord, this moron thinks he can take on the CIA. And come out alive?
Mon Dec 12, 2016, 12:38 AM
Dec 2016

The only question is how badly this will end. For Don the Con, that is...

DonCoquixote

(13,616 posts)
56. When Stalin was told by the KGB
Mon Dec 12, 2016, 12:54 AM
Dec 2016

That Hitler was crazy enough to attack Russia and the Uk at the same time, he had those agents shot. Hisotry does nto repeat, but damn it rhymes.

malthaussen

(17,175 posts)
72. Not particularly fond of spooks...
Mon Dec 12, 2016, 09:57 AM
Dec 2016

... but they are in the right on this one. Simply put, what kind of CEO disparages his own company?

-- Mal

 

stevepal

(109 posts)
73. Was the CIA in line with W?
Mon Dec 12, 2016, 10:33 AM
Dec 2016

I'm not sure I agree with this statement in the Wall Street Journal article:

"While the assessments during the George W. Bush administration of Iraqi weapons proved wrong, they weren’t the subject of such a public back and forth."

It seems I remember that Cheney had a little something to do with which analysts were listened to and which weren't. In fact, wasn't the CIA at odds IN GENERAL to Cheney's bullet points? Maybe my memory is deceiving me. When I read so many conflicting opinions about the same subject, I begin to distrust my memory of what happened yesterday, much less a decade ago.

wordpix

(18,652 posts)
87. recall Pres Cheney cherry picked the info he wanted from CIA
Mon Dec 12, 2016, 11:27 AM
Dec 2016

and then blew it up with Colin Powell at UN, getting NYT to publish Cheney's info, etc.

NewJeffCT

(56,828 posts)
94. There was the Office of Special Plans
Mon Dec 12, 2016, 12:25 PM
Dec 2016

I believe that cherry picked intel from several sources and mixed it up with info from Ahmed Chalabi, which was then fed to Bush, Cheney, Powell, Rice, etc.

dmr

(28,344 posts)
103. Remember, too, Cheney would visit the CIA, & harass them when
Mon Dec 12, 2016, 01:37 PM
Dec 2016

he wasn't getting the info he wanted.

I remember reading at the time that it was almost unheard of for so many VP visits. He hounded them for 'evidence'.

Also remember how he planted info with Judy Miller, then go on the Sunday talk shows and comment about what was being reported in the New York Times.

Arghhh … why isn't he dead yet?

 

YoungDemCA

(5,714 posts)
97. The CIA and the FBI have NEVER gotten along.
Mon Dec 12, 2016, 12:41 PM
Dec 2016

J. Edgar Hoover himself virulently opposed the creation of the CIA. Why? Because he jealously guarded his status as America's Red-Baiter-In-Chief. And he was of the Joe McCarthy view that the biggest threat to the U.S. came from within the country - including from within the U.S. government. Contrast this to the CIA, which from the beginning was all about undermining the Soviets and their allies - and foreign governments who dared to oppose the U.S. in general...in other words, the CIA's jurisdiction was explicitly international (though they of course violated that rule for decades, as exposed by the post-Watergate Congressional investigations in the 1970s...).

Many have argued that the mutual suspicion and distrust and petty rivalries between the CIA and the FBI directly led to the failure to prevent 9/11. Looks like they still hate each other's guts. Fasten your seat-belts, folks, because things are about to get very, very unpredictable...

AtheistCrusader

(33,982 posts)
107. That's the thing right? Who among us can say the CIA *doesn't* need to be reined in a tad?
Mon Dec 12, 2016, 02:30 PM
Dec 2016

In this fight, I don't know who the fuck I'm supposed to root for. Can they both lose? Is that an option? I want that option.


These people used a vaccination program in Pakistan to search for Bin Laden. The blowback from that is KILLING people. Children. Dying of Polio. We'll never know the full death toll.

So yeah, fun. Hope they destroy each other. May there be no winner.

Thinkingabout

(30,058 posts)
113. There was hacking into the DNC during the primaries, with the assistance
Mon Dec 12, 2016, 06:11 PM
Dec 2016

Of Assauge and wikileaks information was delivered and was not verified. I do no t trust the Russians nor wikileaks to deliver th e truth. This needs to be investigated to the fullest, too much Russian connections by candidates, probably allowed themselves to bev Putin's puppets.

AlexSFCA

(6,137 posts)
116. let's hope
Mon Dec 12, 2016, 09:15 PM
Dec 2016

CIA did not like how Trump tried to ridicule their findings. The current employees are basically under threat of Trump's administration. Let's hope they'll fight for their survival by burrying trump.

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