Russia Today downplaying the hacking-accusations by quoting Bolton and Trump (and nobody else)

[DetlefK]

https://www.rt.com/usa/369973-dnc-hack-false-flag/

Bolton: The hacks were obviously a false-flag operation by the Obama-administration because russian hackers are too smart to leave fingerprints.
(I have seen this reasoning before: The evidence that this Russian was killed in London by russian agents isn't credible because russian agents are too good to leave traces.)

The article is suspiciously devoid of context as to what the allegations actually are and what evidence the conclusion is based on.




https://www.rt.com/usa/369944-russia-hackers-trump-reaction/

Quoting what Trump said in Fox News interview, that the hacking-allegations are just an excuse to discredit his tremendous victory. (Also, no fact-checking of the nonsense Trump blathered about how hacking works or how his huge victory came about despite losing the popular vote by a landslide.)

This article is also suspiciously devoid of context as to what the allegations actually are and what evidence the conclusion is based on.





------------

It's the usual modus operandi of Russia Today: Leave out anything that might endanger the foregone conclusion of your article. Create a strawman-argument by presenting half the facts as if they were all the facts, and then ridicule that strawman.

[MFM008]

1. WE don't believe

Their KGB crap...
Maggot voters are another matter.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

6. Nobody polled DU about that interference

I notice a lot of posts trying to okay what Russia did to our election. [View all]

You can try, but you will not change the narrative on du.
You'll find we are against ANY interference from foreign governments AND McConnell's threat to make it partisan if the word got out before the election. We WILL call it traitorous because that's what it was.



http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=8352768

[JI7]

7. what BS . it was Russia , not the US which interfered in Ukraine . and KGB and others have a history

of their own.

do you think Japan and Germany deserve to get shit because of WWII ?

[GliderGuider]

8. Both Russia and the USA were involved in the Ukrainian clusterfuck.

That's the nature of nation-state realpolitik.

The darkly amusing irony of the USA bellowing when their ox gets gored came home to me last night. The shoe feels mighty different when it's on the other foot.

It's going to be fascinating to watch this unfold. I don't think that the simple fact that I live across a border from the mess is going to insulate me for long, though.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

13. We on the left opposed many of those interventions/interferences.

Those on the right supported them. Now they have their guy in the White house. The left gets screwed again. I see nothing to applaud.

[GliderGuider]

14. Now "everybody" gets screwed.

Left, right, Christian, Muslim, Atheist, French, Indonesian or Hottentot. We're looking at another dimension of the planetary end-game here. Here's what a friend of mine said about the fix the world is in:

I totally get how Trump supporters wanted somebody to fix™ the myriad problems™ now facing the dominant human global culture. It's how most of the people in this culture have been taught to think.

The thing is, Mr. Trump will be unable to fix those problems.

The even deeper thing is, none of the other candidates would have been able to fix those problems either. None of them.

Runaway climate chaos? The growth imperative? Debt-based financial systems? The psychological workings of the human being? Resource™ depletions? Generations of accumulated trauma and epigenetic change? The unfolding 6th Mass Extinction Event? Overpopulation?

Do you think these things can be addressed through the institutions which created them, in the midst of cultural collapse, in the short amount of time left to address them, with margins for money and energy and resources now razor thin, by people whose minds were formed inside of family, cultural, and paradigmatic beliefs and assumptions which trip them up at every turn?

Nothing from my years of study and research has indicated that the members of this culture can "solve" their way out of this, at least not in this physical realm. We're up against fundamental laws of physics, chemistry, biology, and psychology. I think it's above our pay grade, as evidenced by the seeming fact™ that the chief cause of our present panoply of problems™ is our own previous solutions™.

[DetlefK]

9. Fair warning. You do not want a serious discussion about those things on the list.

East Germany? It was the Soviet Union who CREATED East Germany out of german territory because they didn't want to cede their spoils of war.

Cuba? Well, what's so bad about toppling a communist dictatorship.

Iraq 1? Obviously, defending Kuwait from Iraq was evil.

Somalia 1? Obviously, humanitarian missions for the UN in a country divided by civil-war is evil now.

Yugoslavia? Funny how mass-demonstrations about election-fraud now count as regime-change.

Afghanistan? Funny how toppling the Taliban is evil now.

Venezuela? Correct me if I'm wrong, but was there ever evidence that the US was involved in the coup-attempt?

Haiti? Yep, humanitarian interventions for the UN definitely count as regime-change.

Somalia 2? As does fighting pirates.

Libya? If I ever learned ONE THING here on DU, it's that the Regressive Left is perfectly fine with brutal tyrants, as long as this tyrant is also a socialist.

Syria? Supporting civil-rights-demanding rebels against a dictatorial regime is also evil.

Ukraine? Definitively was the US and the Ukraine definitely did not break apart along decades-old political and ethnic fault-lines due to external political pressure form the EU. Definitely was the US because completely innocent Russia said so.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

15. Your interlocutor is likely a Russian/Putin bot or an Alt-Righty attacking Democrats from the left.

Putin is upset because Clinton openly gave support to pro-democracy forces in Russia. If Putin openly supported his pal Trump most of us wouldn't have had a problem. It would have sunk him. That is why the support was clandestine by leaking negative information about one party and candidate and not the other.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

17. Matthew 7:16/nt

[Tanuki]

18. Out of curiosity, what is the source of your chart?

[MineralMan]

27. I assure you that it won't be disclosed by that poster.

I'm looking for it now.

[MineralMan]

28. That chart appears to have it's origins with William Blum. Link:

https://williamblum.org/essays/read/overthrowing-other-peoples-governments-the-master-list

William Blum is not a progressive. He is simply opposed to the United States government generally

[Tanuki]

37. Thanks, MM . Never heard of Blum, but Google tells me he wrote that

he would vote for Trump over HRC, going on to denounce HRC in a bitter diatribe. DSB is right on target with the quote above from the gospel of Matthew.

[ismnotwasm]

12. This makes it all ok to you?

Your list is inaccurate, as well as without analysis--curious but this makes ok for ficking Russua to interfere with American politics?

[treestar]

20. That is a lot of cases and could involve a lot of

different scenarios and different facts. This assertion is overly facile.

[wordpix]

21. what's your point? What's this got to do with Russian interference in our election?

nothing as far as I can tell

[spanone]

23. so you support the russians hacking our electoral process.....cool

[MineralMan]

24. If you're defending RT on DU,

well, good luck with that.

[leftynyc]

25. How about getting

that putin propaganda crap off this site? I notice (as did others) you provide no source. Lemme guess - putin's ass?

[MineralMan]

29. The source for that information is William Blum

https://williamblum.org/essays/read/overthrowing-other-peoples-governments-the-master-list

William Blum is not a progressive. He is simply opposed to the United States government generally

[Tanuki]

38. Also see #37 above. eom

[uponit7771]

33. So you're defending Russia? Really

[eShirl]

3. Trump's Chumps will lap it up.

[Cha]

4. Yeah, like the Americans who don't want Russia taking over

give a shite what they have to say.

[DetlefK]

10. Trumpers definitely read this.

I saw a shit-ton of anti-Clinton posts in the comment-sections during the campaign-season. Really ugly and hateful stuff.

[ck4829]

11. That's like some inquisition style thinking there

We need evidence to accuse X of Y, but X couldn't have done have done Y because X is too smart to leave evidence at Y.

That should be very telling of the next 4 years.

Yes, Putin's FSB murdered Alex Litvinenko and yes, they hacked the parties.

[wordpix]

19. same playbook as BushCo's "proof" of WMD in Iraq

make up the story, go to media to promote story as "fact," and as you say, "Leave out anything that might endanger the foregone conclusion of your article.

In this case, add "It's all Obama's fault" with no evidence to support wild accusation.

[MineralMan]

22. RT is not a legitimate news source.

It is the propaganda arm of the Putin administration in the Russian Federation. Nothing at RT should be posted on DU without being debunked thoroughly...

RT is not a valid source of information. Period.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

26. To quote the late, great SidDithers/Skinner.....

"According to RT. LOL. "

[AgadorSparticus]

30. Russia downplaying their involvement by citing their own paid hacks.

[DetlefK]

34. RT is portraying political hacks, conspiracy-theorists and random bloggers as mainstream-sources.

Whenever they quote somebody from the US, it's some rando nobody in the US would recognize. For example, they once quoted an Obama-bashing Tea Party State-Senator, and "accidently" passed him off as a US Senator.

Or they once ran an editorial by some US right-wing activist... who turns out to be a conspiracy-theorist who believes that all the mass-shootings were staged by Obama.

Or they run articles on Syria written by an "independent journalist"... who is actually just some blogger.




They always pick the crazies and weirdos and elevate them to the level of credible sources.

[AgadorSparticus]

35. I was reading something on fb where people were shocked their fb news was fake

....WHO THE HELL goes to FACEBOOK to get news??!?!!!

That's interesting what they do. I never heard that but then again, I wouldn't. It makes sense that they utilize those cheap tricks. The people dumb enough to go to those sources as news would never know any difference. You can feed them just about anything and they would believe it. As this election has so clearly proven.

[uponit7771]

31. Yeap, the fact that they're responding to this means its hit a spot... that's a good thing

[forgotmylogin]

32. Bolton and Trump - blame the victim.