Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search
28 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Stop the pro Putin, pro Russia, Trump Republican Fifth Column (Original Post) DemocratSinceBirth Dec 2016 OP
Lots of putin/t-rump supporters on DU. stonecutter357 Dec 2016 #1
Anyone who claims that Russian/Putin hacking into our election workinclasszero Dec 2016 #2
Yes shenmue Dec 2016 #3
Ive not seen a single person say it doesnt matter. Have you? jack_krass Dec 2016 #11
Yes./nt DemocratSinceBirth Dec 2016 #13
Yes I have workinclasszero Dec 2016 #14
Yes. AgadorSparticus Dec 2016 #15
I have. nt Maru Kitteh Dec 2016 #28
K & r nt LaydeeBug Dec 2016 #4
Stop blaming everybody else for your problems! TomVilmer Dec 2016 #5
"Your problems" ismnotwasm Dec 2016 #6
No answers, I take it? TomVilmer Dec 2016 #7
Trump lost the popular vote by 3,000,000 . He won the arcane Electoral College by 80,000 votes... DemocratSinceBirth Dec 2016 #10
Nope - argument is opposite! TomVilmer Dec 2016 #16
This is how we start. By showing that we have opened up our systems to hacks lagomorph777 Dec 2016 #17
Very funny way of missing the point! TomVilmer Dec 2016 #20
"decentralized nature of the US election system" lagomorph777 Dec 2016 #21
Actually I was quoting the Director of National Intelligence on Election Security TomVilmer Dec 2016 #22
Comrade, you know as well as I that you have compromised many of our government officials. lagomorph777 Dec 2016 #23
Hello again, senator Mccarthy! TomVilmer Dec 2016 #24
The left in America has always opposed interference in the affairs of other nations DemocratSinceBirth Dec 2016 #18
I have seen no sign of that narrative... TomVilmer Dec 2016 #19
I like to pretend that if I fail to see a certain thing, it absolutely does not exist as well. LanternWaste Dec 2016 #25
Post removed Post removed Dec 2016 #27
Love the imagery!. Reminds me of WW2, when we knew how to root out and deal with traitors, thought jack_krass Dec 2016 #8
This message was self-deleted by its author DemocratSinceBirth Dec 2016 #9
"Thought enemies." DemocratSinceBirth Dec 2016 #12
The images we infer are often those that best validate our biases. LanternWaste Dec 2016 #26

TomVilmer

(1,832 posts)
5. Stop blaming everybody else for your problems!
Mon Dec 12, 2016, 09:45 AM
Dec 2016

Yes, big nations tries to influence other nations often also in clandestine ways. Russia was famous for this during the Cold War. Less is told and remembered about what USA did against also supposedly friendly nations. This practice is still going on, and in Denmark we very well remember how USA tapped the Copenhagen Climate Summit. Leaked NSA documents suggests the NSA were spying on Denmark, and there are very good reasons to believe that the failure of the Copenhagen talks was in part due to a information war directed by the US government against other negotiators.

It's very OK to be unhappy about other nations clandestine operations in your country. But your outrage seems hypocritical to foreigners, until you start cleaning up your own game abroad - both under Republican and Democratic governments.

And your focus on Putin as the main villain for why this election was lost by the Democrats, is undermining your own political systems much more than he could ever be clever enough to do. Your system is not that fragile, so please stop claiming that it is. Most of the damage was done by normally patriotic U.S. citizens, who just wanted that Trump guy to win. Many people did weird stuff, and you have crazy people enough inside your country to get that president, you got.

Clean up your own system - and yes, do also send an angry letter to Putin. But do not feed him power by believing he has the strength to elect your presidents!

DemocratSinceBirth

(99,708 posts)
10. Trump lost the popular vote by 3,000,000 . He won the arcane Electoral College by 80,000 votes...
Mon Dec 12, 2016, 10:36 AM
Dec 2016

Trump lost the popular vote by 3,000,000 . He won the arcane Electoral College by 80,000 votes out of 130,000,000 votes cast. Who isn't to say the Putin/Trump Axis was able to move a scant 80,000 votes.


Also, your argument that we did it so they can do it falls flat. That's as inane as Trump wanting to persecute all Muslims for the actions of ISIS.

TomVilmer

(1,832 posts)
16. Nope - argument is opposite!
Mon Dec 12, 2016, 11:06 AM
Dec 2016

All your governments did this, so start to fix it and stop your governments from doing it.

Right now you and your country is in no position to be offended, that others do what you do.

First when you take a stand against such actions by any nation including your own, there will be a chance for sympathy and cooperation. Until then, all complaint are just kettles and pots calling each other black.

For me and the people from USA that I know and care about, your country is supposed to do better. Please start!

TomVilmer

(1,832 posts)
20. Very funny way of missing the point!
Mon Dec 12, 2016, 11:50 AM
Dec 2016

Any systems can be penetrated. If not by external access and clever hackers, then by any low pay guy in there willing to sell. But willfully to open the systems could be a way to make a new START treaty for hacking. In the old systems, you sometime had to open the lids so both was free to count how many weapons you had. Maybe the force of government hackers could be controlled in a similar way...

Except your voting system, where it would be extremely difficult for someone, including a nation-state actor, to alter actual ballot counts or election results by cyber attack or intrusion. This assessment is based on the decentralized nature of the US election system and the number of protections state and local election officials have in place.

lagomorph777

(30,613 posts)
21. "decentralized nature of the US election system"
Mon Dec 12, 2016, 11:55 AM
Dec 2016

simply means that it has thousands of vulnerabilities instead of dozens. And it's meaningless in an age when a decent server farm can track all the types of hackable voting machines in use, all the voter databases, all tabulators, etc. Not a big deal at all; you don't have to hack all of it; you only need to hack just enough of it to flip a few vulnerable precincts in a few states.

And official "protections" are meaningless when almost all election officials are Russopublican partisans.

TomVilmer

(1,832 posts)
22. Actually I was quoting the Director of National Intelligence on Election Security
Mon Dec 12, 2016, 01:06 PM
Dec 2016

Happy to read your criticism of your government officials. Here is some more of that Joint Statement from the Department Of Homeland Security and Office of the Director of National Intelligence on Election Security:

"The USIC and the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) assess that it would be extremely difficult for someone, including a nation-state actor, to alter actual ballot counts or election results by cyber attack or intrusion. This assessment is based on the decentralized nature of our election system in this country and the number of protections state and local election officials have in place. States ensure that voting machines are not connected to the Internet, and there are numerous checks and balances as well as extensive oversight at multiple levels built into our election process."

Is it just that one part of the statement you feel is false, or do you also have problems with other parts missing evidence, such as the claims about what the Russian Government directed? And do please tell me more about how your political system "allowed all election officials to be Russopublican partisans". I would like to see links with evidence about this surprising reality you live in.

lagomorph777

(30,613 posts)
23. Comrade, you know as well as I that you have compromised many of our government officials.
Mon Dec 12, 2016, 04:07 PM
Dec 2016

We now face a massive effort to root them out.

TomVilmer

(1,832 posts)
24. Hello again, senator Mccarthy!
Mon Dec 12, 2016, 05:33 PM
Dec 2016

I am sure that Putin will be happy to work with a man of your amazing combination of unhinged suspicion based on a total lack of evidence, constantly mistaking insults for arguments. You have so much in common!

DemocratSinceBirth

(99,708 posts)
18. The left in America has always opposed interference in the affairs of other nations
Mon Dec 12, 2016, 11:10 AM
Dec 2016

The left in America has always opposed interference in the affairs of other nations, except in the narrowest of circumstances, so why should we suffer because the Russians have installed a puppet to rule us from the far right?

TomVilmer

(1,832 posts)
19. I have seen no sign of that narrative...
Mon Dec 12, 2016, 11:35 AM
Dec 2016

... so please point to recent links, where anybody is putting two and two together like that. What I find here on DU is just constant harassment, where anybody trying to widen the story is named as "agent provocateurs" and "Putin puppets" - and what seems like the ultimate insult "foreigners". And by the way - if you are looking for the missing votes to elect the better choice, half of the voters stayed home. That is around 231,556,622 missing votes right there. I would say those many millions are your basic problem!

 

LanternWaste

(37,748 posts)
25. I like to pretend that if I fail to see a certain thing, it absolutely does not exist as well.
Mon Dec 12, 2016, 05:37 PM
Dec 2016

I like to pretend that if I fail to see a certain thing, it absolutely does not exist as well. It's also fun to believe that criticism of a perceived action by a foreign government is to be ignored until my own country is righteous and pure. Bless your heart, regardless of your millions of basic problems!

Response to LanternWaste (Reply #25)

 

jack_krass

(1,009 posts)
8. Love the imagery!. Reminds me of WW2, when we knew how to root out and deal with traitors, thought
Mon Dec 12, 2016, 10:29 AM
Dec 2016

enemies, and even potential traitors!!!! Theyre all against us so lets stop 'em all!!!!

APPRECIATE AMERICA!!
GO USA!!
APPRECIATE AMERICA!!
GO USA!
GO USA!
USA
USA

Response to jack_krass (Reply #8)

DemocratSinceBirth

(99,708 posts)
12. "Thought enemies."
Mon Dec 12, 2016, 10:55 AM
Dec 2016

A person should be free to believe what he or she wants. A person is free to believe DemocratSinceBirth deserves to have his ass kicked until he takes a swing at him.

The values on the pillars are liberty, unity, justice and equality. Those are values worth defending, am I right?

The guy pushing against those pillars has a hat that says bigotry and is festooned with markers that say sabotage and foreign propaganda. Those values are worth opposing, am I right?



 

LanternWaste

(37,748 posts)
26. The images we infer are often those that best validate our biases.
Mon Dec 12, 2016, 05:39 PM
Dec 2016

The images we infer are often those that best validate our biases, regardless of all the potentials out to get you.

Latest Discussions»General Discussion»Stop the pro Putin, pro R...