VOX: This Trump voter didn't think Trump was serious about repealing her health insurance

[Sgent]

http://www.vox.com/2016/12/13/13901874/obamacare-trump-voter-health-insurance-repeal

Last week, we went to Corbin, Kentucky, to try to answer that question. It’s a small city in southeastern Kentucky, an area of the country that has seen huge declines in its uninsured rate — but also voted overwhelmingly for Trump.

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Debbie Mills is a 53-year-old furniture store owner in Bell County, an area of the state right on the Tennessee border. Earlier this year, doctors discovered that her husband has non-alcoholic cirrhosis. He now needs a transplant if he’s going to survive. Mills and her husband keep a bag packed, waiting for the doctors to call with news that a liver is available.

This all means that Mills really, really needs her health insurance. And she’s very grateful for the Affordable Care Act, because she couldn’t afford insurance before it was passed.

And yet she voted for Donald Trump. Until we spoke, she said she hadn’t taken Trump’s repeal threats seriously. As we talked, she started to process what his election might mean for her family’s future.

[LeftofObama]

1. I wish her husband well, but that's all the sympathy she's going to get from me.

[bigdarryl]

122. I hope she looses her healthcare stupid ass

[bravenak]

2. Neither did my cousin

Who is also an organ recipient.

[blue cat]

65. WTF?

[awoke_in_2003]

109. There are people who think

only other people are takers- they aren't

[RKP5637]

3. I don't have sympathy for her, because she's taking the rest of us down with her because of her

proud ignorance. Many will die because of her and others with that same stupid mindset!

[LenaBaby61]

8. I don't have sympathy for her, because she's taking the rest of us down with her because of her.

She SURELY didn't care about anybody else having any health insurance/healthcare, so while I'm not wishing any worse on her or her hubby for sure, what I WON'T do is shed any tears for her at all

[gvstn]

68. Proud ignorance gets it exactly right.

I'm not saying all, but many Trump voters are proud that they don't understand/value or purposely disregard facts. What are they thinking? Can one really be proud of willingly being stupid?

[RKP5637]

71. It seems many are proud of their ignorance. It seems to be an escape mechanism for being so

woefully uneducated and misinformed plus naive and propagandized IMO. It's damn pitiful.

It's hard to reach many, because then they become verbally or physically hostile, basically stuck in their ways.

A lot of it has to do with the Psychological Primacy Principle and Projection. It's a viscous cycle and habitual. And ever reinforced by propaganda on AM radio and other sources. Alex Jones, for one example, does a great job of keeping them caged, and fattens his wallet off of their misery.

[gvstn]

73. It is sad and as you say pitiful.

I know a very pleasant young man of about 20 years old who is "proud" of never having done his wash(clothes). His mother does his wash which is fine but at 20 you should be able to figure out how to turn the knobs on the washer and dryer and hang up your clothes when they are done.

Being proud of not knowing which machine is a washer and which is a dryer just seems dumb. I like the guy but don't like that he is proud of being ignorant. Lucky for him he has someone to keep his socks and underwear drawer full.

I can't still get my mind around people that are proud of ignoring science. I was always enthralled by completely new ideas and discoveries.

[RKP5637]

119. He will be left out of the future, a member of a dystopian society, his survival will be difficult.

[SharonAnn]

117. What I encounter is something I call "Belligerent Ignorance". They're "outraged

by everything that is true and angry about having to listen to it or see it. They "know" what they've been told by their R-W media and their pastors. That's enough.

[RKP5637]

120. Exactly and so sad. "Belligerent Ignorance." They have no future. n/t

[gvstn]

125. "Belligerent Ignorance"

Wonderful term. So precise and correct.

Thank you!

[lake loon]

102. Yet no radio, RV station or newspaper in her area ....

... ever told her the truth. What do you expect?

[riversedge]

4. Wait till this woman learns the GOP plans for Medicare and SOC SEC also. She said she was not

much into politics and did not believe Trump would actually repeal ACA--which is Medicaid for many.
I believed them but with folks like this person, We are all doomed.

[Squinch]

5. Dumbass. And she thinks the coal jobs are going to come back. Because

Trump "seems like a businessman."

Dumbass. No sympathy from me.

[world wide wally]

6. She believes the lies and doubts the truths

What other end could she ever possible come to?

[Squinch]

7. The Democratic slogan for the next election: "Now do you believe us, dumbasses??"

That's all the outreach I'm willing to do.

[world wide wally]

9. OMG!

Don't call them stupid!
They'll never vote for us!

I have to say "Fuck political correctness" on this one.

[Squinch]

11. Yes! We need to change our message to appeal to her! Jettison all black people and women!

This woman is who we want!

... speaking of dumbasses...

[hollowdweller]

112. I think it's more complicated than that.

I'm a democrat and don't give a damn what anybody thinks and say what the hell I want.

However in my area it's almost like a religion or something that all democrats are bad. Part of it is the gun thing and part of it is just media brainwashing.

A lot of poor country people somehow who are on SSI or get free health insurance somehow vote republican because to say you are a democrat would be like saying you are a satanist or something.

They see the dems as looking down on them, and somehow trying to hurt their lifestyle despite the fact that so many get gov't help, or even work for the gov't.

A lot of these people were or are democrats. However talk radio and FOX, guns and the dem support for free trade have changed it to now if you work in a coal mine or chemical plant, or are a farmer, or have guns and hunt then you are a republican.

[Squinch]

135. It's not more complicated than that. Every point you make about the people in your area

supports the idea that these people are working as hard as they can against their own interests, not to mention mine. You are describing people who follow a party that screws them over and over again and yet they believe that the other party, the one that safeguards their very existence is the evil group. This is the definition of dumbass.

There was a thread a few days ago where Recursion flipped the narrative. Since the election we have been talking about "what do we do about the fact that the Democratic party is out of touch with the rural voter." As a Democrat, I didn't take that as an insult, did you? But he flipped it to say "what do we do about the fact that the rural voter is out of touch with the party that actually works for them?" The responses from rural people were irate. They were all highly insulted and saw it as a smear against them, condescension, an insult. All sorts of horrible things. It was none of those. It was nothing more than what has been said about the rest of us since November 8.

Before this election, I never looked down on rural people. In fact, like most urban people, I never gave rural people any more thought than rural people gave me. But after this election, yes I do look down on the rural people that voted for Trump. Those people, the people that you describe, are idiots. You describe idiotic self destructive actions and belief patterns. That is not on anyone else. That is on those morons themselves. There is no way around it. That is completely stupid. And their stupidity stands to hurt me and you immeasurably.

If these ultrasensitive, quick- to- find- insult rural people want to be looked at with more respect, they might start by not voting like imbeciles.

[mcar]

48. Did you forget the sarcasm smiley?

[rusty fender]

14. Plus 1,000!

Perfect

[Squinch]

16. Seriously. I'm going to get a button and a bumper sticker made up.

[kairos12]

23. Won't matter. They will still blame Obama.

[LonePirate]

60. I will gladly donate as much as I can to any Democrat who runs with that slogan!

The idiotic Americans who voted for him are much like stubborn children who refuse to learn a lesson until they are hurt by it.

[blue cat]

67. Love it!!!

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

36. Trump seems like a businessman to those who know nothing about business

To the rest of us he's just a con artist.

[Squinch]

49. And they think "multiple bankruptcies" is a medical condition that they don't have to

worry about because they have Obamacare.

[hollowdweller]

113. But he plays one on TV and that familiarity, just like Reagan and his acting career helps.

[lpbk2713]

10. A slow learner had to learn the hard way.

A common trait among rethuglican voters is that they will
vote against their own personal interests every time.

[CountAllVotes]

30. You can't have your cake and eat it

Some do eventually learn.

[Aristus]

12. She didn't take his threats seriously?

I thought Trump always 'told it like it is'...

[keithbvadu2]

63. She should have more faith in her Donald.

She should have more faith in her Donald.

He said he was gong to make it better,,,,,, "GREAT" was his famous word.

[awoke_in_2003]

110. Except for the times

when he didn't mean "that"

[hollowdweller]

115. They were interviewing a farmer on NPR

He supported Trump and said he hoped that he would trash some sort of water regulation that would hurt him.

Then he said that he hoped Trump would not make good on repealing NAFTA, because it was the savior of farmers.

THEN he said he hoped that he would not crack down on illegals because farmers would go broke without them.

So on 2 of the 3 issues he mentioned he was against Trump.

However Farmers are mostly for Republicans, because they are a manly party and farming is a manly profession. Democrats are portrayed as sissies and the party of women by the GOP media complex so unless the farmer knows the politician personally then the default is republican.

[bettyellen]

134. And despite the obvious bigotry any pundit would ignore it and focus on the

Regulations for cleaner water being so damned harmful to the poor farmer. At best he's voting out of pure selfishneness, but it seems his own "identity" is what prompts it.

[workinclasszero]

13. This is why America is flushing down the damn toilet!

Not only the wife but the hubby with a blown out liver..VOTED FOR TRUMP AND THE REPUBLICANS!?!?

They will be cut off at the knees come January 20th by the con man who they voted for!

Probably the first thing the republicans will do is kill the ACA!

That woman and her hubby are Darwin award winners for sure!

[RobinA]

93. I Don't Think

we're allowed to be condescending, so knock that off!!!

I must say, I try to get where these people are coming from. I'm in mental health, empathy is part of my job. But try as I might, I can't seem to imagine having a husband with liver disease (meaning, he's gonna die without help) and voting for a person who might possibly have the thought cross his mind to eliminate my health insurance. Like, HELLO? Trying REALLY hard not to be condescending.

[coolbreeze77]

15. I don't feel sorry for her

[bullwinkle428]

17. Sounds like she hates Hillary more than she loves

her husband. How sad.

[DeminPennswoods]

18. No healtcare eq shorter life eq fewer Trump voters faster

That is the bottom line for me no matter how cruel it might be.

[Mariana]

55. Democrats will be deprived of health care as well.

A repeal isn't going to only affect those who voted for Trump.

[Cha]

19. The fucking thing he told the truth about, Debbie.. sorry

for all those who will be affected by this.

[Ms. Toad]

20. This is suddenly very real to me, again.

I got home last night and my daughter with her $40-60,000/year health care costs told me she had bad news. She walked out of her job yesterday (a job that gave her $45/month health insurance with a $1,500 annual out-of-pocket cap). To be fair, she had a panic attack - which is part of her disability. I get that.

It was her nonchalant,"We'll just get insurance somewhere else," attitude that made me blow a gasket - there's COBRA avaialble.

She blew through my yearly out of pocket max by February, picked up her own insurance in July - blew through that cap by August, and now for the 3rd time in 12 months she's likely to have another new out of pocket max to hit before insurance picks up the cost. COBRA - which would keep her from more out-of-pocket costs until next July is likely to run $350/month. But if she takes COBRA, she can't switch to an ACA plan until a year from now.

Assuming ACA isn't repealed - in which case she has no options at all.

Crossing my fingers that they will treat her panic attack as part of a disability (even though she hadn't disclosed it) and will take her back. She is one of the most reliable workers they have - but when her evil boss goes off on her, the stress triggers a panic attack. This is only the second time in the 18 months she's worked there.

I guess the bottom line is that if my very bright daughter doesn't "get" the implications of the election, I have no trouble understanding how Trump voters didn't get it.

My daughter has been been vaguely aware of how challenging access to health care is for her, with 22 years of experience as a chronically ill patient (at age 26), and 8 years as an adult listening to me expressly talk about the affordable care act and what it meant to her personally. She was an adult when it started to take effect. She watched and listened as we went through the court cases, agonizing over what they meant. She knows that once the last court case cleared the Supreme Court I finally gave her my blessing to be a starving artist (whereas I'd been strong-arming her to study something that would get her a job with insurance attached). Yet, last night, she still didn't get what November 8 meant for her life - and felt free to casually jetison her health insurance.

I don't like it. But i get it.

[lindysalsagal]

29. Staples fired my brother precisely because he has health care needs.

He had congestive heart failure and a large bypass surgery. So of course , they fired him. He'll be out of luck, as well.

This will hit hard and I think the GOP will catch on that it has to restore the act.

[Ms. Toad]

38. I hope he retained a good employment lawyer.

Termination because of a disability is blatantly illegal.

[lindysalsagal]

40. They made up some BS, and he'll never win.

Needless to say, they'll never admit that's why they fired him.

[TheDebbieDee]

82. That's like when employers have to let 50 or more employees go...

By law, the employer has to offer WARN pay/benefits (Worker Adjustment and Retraining Notification) which is equal to 60 days or 2 months pay. But employers get around this by letting go 45 employees at a time...

[Ms. Toad]

79. At one time, it was the ONLY way for people with pre-existing conditions

who lost their jobs to continue access to health care, even if only for 18 months. I'm old enough to have needed it when it wasn't available, so I'm not going to knock it for being imperfect.

Like the ACA, it was the best we could get at the time - and far better than what existed before it. As was HIPAA - which essentially extended COBRA beyond 18 months. I remember breathing a huge sigh of relief when HIPAA took effect. It meant that as long as I held a job with health insurance at some point, and was careful not to create a gap, my daughter was guaranteed permanent access to health insurance. Very costly health insurance - but not so costly as a liver transplant with no insurance.

[Freddie]

127. I'm a benefits manager

When people find out what COBRA costs they are shocked! I have to explain (patiently) "this is what XYZ Co. has been paying every month for your insurance." Same with Obamacare premiums. They only know what comes out of their paycheck and have no idea what health insurance actually costs. Repugs know this in their anti-Obamacare screeds. In what fantasy land does insurance exist that costs the same as your normal employee contribution?
Of course we could have single-payer and it really would cost a lot less per person but God forbid we do something in this country that would help people.

[NoMoreRepugs]

21. This is almost half the country - pretty scary huh?

No need to be afraid of terrorists sneaking into the country to do us harm when half the populace votes against their own self interests out of sheer stupidity...

[yardwork]

72. That's how I see it, too. Too many willfully ignorant people.

To survive, a democracy needs informed, engaged citizens. I'm appalled to learn just how poorly informed the majority of Americans are.

[hibbing]

22. Keep government out of my Medicare!! n/t

[C Moon]

24. Go to hell, lady. Thanks to those like you, we all have to suffer through this crud!

[Norbert]

25. I'm sorry she gambled her husband's life on a con man.

but damn, how can I feel sorry for her.

[lindysalsagal]

26. Dumbass.

Gonna be alot of pain in order to bring the learning curve up to snuff.

[gratuitous]

27. We are at the mercy of people like this

Yes, we can piss on their early graves and shout to the heavens, "Did you learn anything, you dumbass?!" But that's not going to win elections or make the country any better. I submit we need Democratic candidates who believe in and talk up the Democratic platform. Most of the country agrees with us on so many of our core political beliefs. Let's stop being afraid of what five loudmouths might say on Fox and concentrate instead on selling popular ideas to low-information voters. I think we're smart enough that we can do this.

[mtngirl47]

57. You have hit the nail on the head!

We need to remember the first rule of salesmanship....KISS (Keep it Simple, Stupid)
Democrats need to hire a really good advertising company and repeat the popular ideas over and over and over.

All of our candidates in 2018 need to be the Social Security and Medicare candidates.

[Wounded Bear]

28. Well, if she's still alive...

maybe next time she'll acquaint herself with some real facts BEFORE she votes.

[lpbk2713]

35. Problem is ...

people like her think Faux and Limbaugh is where the real facts come from.

[Wounded Bear]

39. It staggers the mind, though...

The Repubs in Congress voted 60+ times to repeal the ACA.

So they vote Repubs back into power on steroids and now they complain that they might lose their healthcare?

It takes willful ignorance of Biblical proportions to follow that logic trail down the rabbit hole.

[Lotusflower70]

131. The thing is

They called it Obamacare because that mean old President Obama is the devil trying to give people help. God forbid affordable health insurance. At least that's what the Republicans brainwashed some people into believing.

[Roland99]

32. But Trump spoke the truth! Always said what he thought!

But she didn't believe him about that???

[superpatriotman]

33. One down 60 million to go

That seems doable

[Gothmog]

34. I have trouble feeling sorry for an idiot who votes against their own economic interests

[Thor_MN]

37. Let's be honest. She and her peers may well be her husband's death panel.

[workinclasszero]

44. Lets be super honest....

This woman voted for a death sentence for her husband and he voted for his own suicide.

This show how powerful propaganda is and how hate and prejudice will kill you in the end.

[3catwoman3]

41. Can't say it enough -

When people show you who they are, believe them."

[kentuck]

42. That is my home county.

I choked up just reading this. It is so sad.

[lastone]

43. Fuck this stupid moron

I have NO SYMPATHY FOR THIS FUCKING IDIOT!

[DFW]

45. Stories like this, plus what just happened to my wife, make me glad I live in Germany

Two months ago, she was diagnosed with an extremely aggressive form of cancer knicknamed "the murderer" in the clinic where she was treated. She needed a drastic 5 hour operation, and she needed it FAST.

Germany has a two-tier health insurance. Basically: "Privat," in which you pay up front and your insurance USUALLY reimburses you, and "Kassenpatient" which means you are a second class citizen, and they take you when they'll take you, so shut up and don't complain. They have hidden quotas and the paperwork drives the doctors nuts, but 90% of Germans are the second system, and my wife, who became uninsured when she took early retirement (don't believe the crap you were told in the primary season, Germany does NOT have single payer), had to take what they gave her from her €400 a month health insurance I have been paying for her since her retirement, sort of like a German COBRA.

The big difference is that almost anyone can sign up for the second class insurance, and they can't deny it for pre-existing conditions. Proven poverty cases can get special dispensation. The paperwork is punishing and you MUST get off your ass to get it done, or else you're uninsured here. Luckily, the top specialist, the kind of doctor who usually only treats "Privat" patients, saw my wife's biopsy results and ordered her to be given a rush time slot for surgery because he knew how aggressive her cancer was.

She went through a brutal 5 hour operation, was in the hospital for nearly three weeks, but she was caught early enough to be one of the 2% or so of cases where "the murderer" didn't have a chance to do his dirty work. In Germany, a 3 to 4 week stay at a rehab spa geared to your particular kind of cancer (they have them all over Germany) is included in the treatment, and insurance covers that, too, right down to your train trip to wherever the spa is. No politician in Germany, from the far left to the far right, would ever THINK of loosening the health care coverage here.

A politician here in Germany who would even contemplate out loud changing Germany's health care system to ours would be told "don't bother to declare your candidacy, it just ended." Most Europeans can't grasp WHY anyone in America who is not independently wealthy enough to afford any medical treatment they might ever need would EVER vote Republican, let alone Trump. When they hear stories like this one (and they're hearing a LOT of them these days), they are completely confused. They figure, if these people weren't being prevented from finding out what a Trump victory would mean for them, then why would they EVER vote for him?

The crazy answer seems to be not just that WE don't know.....but neither do they.

[Jean-Jacques Roussea]

54. tfw people compare Germany and America and Germany is the forward-thinking one

End of days

[Caliman73]

132. The simple and unsatisfying answer is the emotions usually win over reason.

A great many people in America believe that we can make it on our own with just enough hard work. We rarely think that while our effort is important, that we actually NEVER make it on our own. Everything we accomplish, we do with the work and progress other generations have provided. Our taxes pay for roads, street lights, the water flowing into our homes, etc... Yet the myth persists that if only the collective (government) just got out of the way, that things would be better.

It is an emotional response and Republicans have played on it for decades. Instead of blaming the greed of the wealthy, who want to maximize profit at the expense of others, the blame goes to government, to immigrants, to women, to Black people for being criminals. It plays to our biases that "I am doing everything right, but those other people are just leeches"

[benld74]

46. I'll informed voters

[TrekLuver]

47. Well she better hope that her husband gets his liver before Jan 20th.

[WhiteTara]

50. Just proves, you can't fix stupid.

Even after she discovered she would be screwed, she still didn't get it.

[meadowlark5]

51. Too bad

The majority of people that will be most hurt by Trump are the very people who voted for him. I have 0 sympathy for anyone who voted for Trump and will lose their insurance or their minimum wage or their overtime pay or their 40hr work week. Maybe they can find comfort in the fact that their hate was elected as president. Keep them warm and comfy.

[SHRED]

52. What a jackass

[pbmus]

53. We elected George bush twice, not once, twice...

And we the electorate almost destroyed our country with that vote..

[Hortensis]

58. One guess who she voted for twice?

These are the people Lincoln said (maybe) who can be fooled all the time. Not because they're too stupid or ignorant to make sensible decisions in other areas of their lives, but because they insist on being told what they want to hear.

[renate]

86. "they insist on being told what they want to hear"

I think you have hit the exact nail precisely on the head.

[diane in sf]

87. he stole it both times

[Ilsa]

56. There are tyrannical despots who don't believe the masses should be

Allowed to vote because they are too uneducated. I despise their philosophy, but this person is a case study for discussing the point.

[Dream Girl]

59. i think the PTB want us to die

There are too many of us they would just as soon see 50%-75% of the earth's population disappear...I know this is as tin foil hat as it comes, but I believe it's true...they are going to have no need for our surplus labor with more automation and robotics. As far as they're concerned, we are parasites and unworthy of the air and water we require to survive.

[Ilsa]

81. I think you're right, even though they have

Conflicting values about population. They are rabidly pro-birth, instead of helping the poor masses control their fertility.

But aside from that, they seem to want to arrange for earlier deaths of everyone else.

[AlexSFCA]

61. zero sympathy for this

However, I think even though the ACA will be repealed right away, it won't go into effect for at least a year.

[napi21]

62. Yea, I'm cold hearted! I have NO SYMPATHY for those voters who are now trying to think up

excuses for why they voted for the Con! TS folks. You have to live with the consequences of your actions. I feel bad for the people who DIDN'T vote for him but now have to live with the fallout through no fault of their own.

I'm lucky on the ACA. I'm on Medicare & SS, so all I have to worry about is what the idiot is going to do to THOSE programs.

[maryellen99]

64. My husband will be screwed as well

These voters(including his extended family) have in all likelihood have voted to kill him by voting for Trump. My husband has FSGS (kidney disease which will lead to dialysis and a transplant)and early stage kidney cancer. With Medicare ending (which you can go on if you have ESRD and with preexisting conditions coming back due to Obamacare ending,he's screwed.

[turbinetree]

66. He LIED Lady and I and million of others on Social Security and MEDICARE and Medicaid

will go bankrupt, because Ryan and his plutocrat buddies took direct aim at you and when he asked that ass**** from texas to be the HHS guy.

Didn't you at least think something was up when some one especially a "SERIAL PREDATOR" was making promises, think about that for one moment, you condoned a "SERIAL PREDATOR" to be your president, not mine, but yours

I have a heart condition Lady a serious one and now I and thousands of others have been put on DEATH PANEL" list by your" right wing republican" ass****, who think that my money in my programs should be stripped to make some ass**** rich off my money, which I paid into the system.

You didn't think of that did you?

I still wish you well and good luck, but I really have nothing more to say, but I am still pissed off on how ignorant you and 62 million people were that night, because your folks had Medicare and Social Security didn't they?

[resistance2016]

69. Reminds me of my well-off aunt

She got pretty much rich on some county job and voted for some guy who promised to eliminate her job. She said she didn't believe he'd actually do it. This was when I was really little so I don't know all the specifics. But she blew threw her wealth in a matter of months and then came begging to my mom for financial aid. She was told to go pound sand. Personally, a part of me wants to feel bad for these fools, but then I remind myself that they would GLADLY murder me right now if they could get away with it... so, fuck'em. Let THEM suffer for a change. After all, they voted for it!

[SammyWinstonJack]

70. She doesn't care for Obama's policies..Bet she can't name any. Also, she screwed us all,

for whatever hateful reasons, so no sympathy for her or her husband.

[Proud Liberal Dem]

74. It's interesting

how so many people simultaneously take Trump seriously (because he "tells it like it is&quot and yet think that he's just all bluster and BS.

[JI7]

88. they should just admit they agree with his bigotry

[La Lioness Priyanka]

98. Yup. And so should a lot of us

[Proud Liberal Dem]

106. Right

Just be honest about it.

[Feeling the Bern]

76. Absolutely ZERO sympathy. Personally, I hope he does take away your health insurance

Kentucky loves Republicans. . .enjoy your Republican policies with your bagger Shitgibbon, bagger senators and bagger governor.

I have no sympathy for anyone who does not have a trust fund voting Republican, then whines about the Republican policies.

Listen, motherfucker. . .don't like it. STOP FUCKING VOTING REPUBLICAN!!! Assholes.

[BigDemVoter]

77. I have NO sympathy for her.

If she had just hurt herself and her husband, I would feel really sorry. But given that she's voted to put EVERYBODY in the car with that fool driving is unforgivable. Other people will lose coverage because of HER idiocy (added to a bunch more).

[MFM008]

78. her "family" has no future

hes going to die.
Just like my grandparents died (of Alcoholic cirrhosis) .
Cirrhosis is 95% terminal.
Perhaps next time they will consider their vote more carefully.

[DavidDvorkin]

80. But I thought he was a straight shooter who says what he means and means what he says

Wasn't that supposed to be a big part of his appeal?

[pansypoo53219]

83. they made their bed. OOPS is not good enough. hope it takes the GOP w/ his fat ass.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

84. My tear ducts are dry.

[jumptheshadow]

85. It's strange to think...

...that some of these voters might be out on the protest lines with us someday.

It's also ironic that citizens of the states that voted for Trump might suffer disproportionately than those of us in liberal areas where there are more protective laws.

[Solly Mack]

89. Alrighty then.

Dang

[Cha]

90. Question.. what did she think he was "serious" about?

Throwing Hillary in Jail?

[Buckeye_Democrat]

91. "Aw, shucks, he didn't mean nothin'."

That's a common attitude about Trump's racist remarks too.

Trump voters seemed to cherry pick what they wanted to hear from him.

In addition to persistent racism, it's also remarkable how many Americans don't understand what government can or can't do.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/sean-mcelwee/how-racism-prevents-actio_b_9065144.html

The undecideds I spoke to didn’t seem to have any intuitive grasp of what kinds of grievances qualify as political grievances. Often, once I would engage undecided voters, they would list concerns, such as the rising cost of health care; but when I would tell them that Kerry had a plan to lower health-care premiums, they would respond in disbelief-not in disbelief that he had a plan, but that the cost of health care was a political issue. It was as if you were telling them that Kerry was promising to extend summer into December.

This, however, extends beyond undecided voters. A recent working paper by leading political scientists Eitan Hersh and Brian Schaffner suggests Americans have deeply limited views on what issues government can actually affect. They write:

Specifically, petitioners tend to favor particularistic policy proposals over those with broader consequences and they are inclined toward post-materialist issues rather than redistributive ones.

In older research, Nathan Kelly and Peter Enns demonstrated that as inequality rises, support for redistribution among Americans decreases. Research by political scientist Larry Bartels as well as political scientists Jacob Hacker and Paul Pierson shows that the general public has difficulty connecting public policy with inequality. Bartels observes, regarding the inheritance tax that benefits the very wealthy, “a very substantial number of people support repealing the inheritance tax because they mistakenly believe that their own taxes will be lower as a result.” Political scientist John Sides finds that “correct information about who actually pays the estate tax does increase support for the estate tax.” He finds the effect is strongest among lower-income conservatives.

Meanwhile, political scientists Anthony Fowler and Michele Margolis find that informing people about Republican and Democratic policies using objective information leads them to shift toward supporting Democrats. ANES data suggest that among those who agree that inequality is bad, higher political knowledge leads to more support for government action to reduce inequality.

[Proud Liberal Dem]

107. IOW

Some people just seem to float through life thinking that everything magically and randomly happens without any thought as to the possible causes and effects of pretty much anything. Add to that, far too many people are woefully ignorant about how government works and to the extent that they hear anything about politics, tend to dismiss it as a "hobby" that they may or may not be interested in, except maybe when Presidential elections come around every four years and usually only then on a surface level, hearing Trump spew "Make America Great Again" and "Crooked Hillary" and voting for him because, hey, he's a "Businessman" and "Why don't we give him a chance running America like a business to see if that helps?"


How DO we get people to connect their struggles with the need to care about/engage in the political process?

[Buckeye_Democrat]

111. Better messaging, I think.

I saw LOTS of Trump voters arguing that "at least Trump earned his wealth" while likewise claiming that Bill and Hillary Clinton did not.

There's a big disconnect between Republicans and Democrats regarding wealth.
http://www.occasionalplanet.org/2016/02/03/our-economic-system-favors-the-rich-see-what-republicans-say/

56% of Republicans believed that "the rich deserve to be richer" or "the rich are smarter" or "the rich work harder" compared to only 8% of Democrats! There's very little difference in belief between wealthy and poor Democrats too.

Republican/Libertarian voters, even among the ones who aren't affluent, are more likely to think government taxes people who "earned" their money and gives it away to people who don't deserve it. It's a very fundamental belief that they accept without much thought, and conservative propagandists usually wrap the idea in personal terms -- e.g., "Do you think lazy people should take YOUR hard earned money?"

I think more of them need to realize that the greatest wealth often gets directed to people who are deemed "owners" rather than the people who contribute the most work. Look at the increased use of automated machinery in this country, for example. It took hard-working scientists, engineers, technicians and others to create that technology. Who benefits from it? Mostly fat cats who are "legal owners" of the technology and who wouldn't have the slightest clue how to create it.

I've worked with poor and hard-working people who argue against greater taxes on corporations and the wealthy because "they're the smart ones who give us jobs." I sometimes wonder if poor serfs spoke the same way about their king and queens, thanking them for the opportunity to grow crops and the like?

African Americans probably understand how the system works better than white people (especially the less educated ones), considering the history of plantation owners and slavery.

I'd also hope that more Americans will someday realize that redistribution of wealth makes the entire system stronger. If you play the board game Monopoly, all of the players have an opportunity for greater wealth if some players don't get "knocked out" of the game! Once those other players have been eliminated, who's going to land their game pieces on the winner's properties anymore?

[Vinca]

92. I don't get these people. I really, really can't comprehend voting against your own self interest.

[Buckeye_Democrat]

94. There might be more people who believe...

... the conservative mantra that people become rich entirely because they earned/deserved it.

While that's at least partially true, there's also plenty of examples of very wealthy people who contributed very little to society beyond exploiting others like psychopaths. Plantation owners are an easy example from the past, but there's many more.

Nikola Tesla, who helped society immensely with his alternating current motor, died penniless. George Westinghouse became the "legal owner" of the invention and was richly rewarded.

While I like that Bill Gates has liberal beliefs, he also became filthy rich mostly from the work of others. He purchased DOS from someone else and he later made sure that he maintained ownership of the software when IBM gave him a software monopoly in their PC's.
http://thisdayintechhistory.com/11/06/ibm-signs-a-deal-with-the-devil/

Microsoft shrewdly included a clause in the agreement that allowed them to sell the operating system to other companies under the name MS-DOS. It was this clause that changed the course of technology history, opening the door for Microsoft to become the dominant technology company of the PC era.

Bill Gates' father was a lawyer.

Much wealth in this country is obtained through ownership, and ownership is bestowed and enforced by legal contracts (government). This country often rewards individuals for their manipulative behavior rather than work that's beneficial for society.

I've heard poor, hard-working co-workers argue against taxing the wealthy because "they're the ones who give us jobs!" They might as well be serfs from the Middle Ages arguing that their entire well-being depended upon their kings and queens.

[grantcart]

121. Bill Gates worked hard to put together his fledgling business and

had a number of failures before he made the deal with IBM. I know people who hired his fledgling business to write code and paid by the line.

His connection with IBM was an obvious game changer but it was his mother, not his father who gave him the valuable connection with IBM however.

In 1980, she discussed her son's company with John Opel, a fellow committee member and the chairman of International Business Machines Corporation (IBM). Opel, by some accounts, mentioned Mrs. Gates to other IBM executives. A few weeks later, IBM took a chance by hiring Microsoft, then a small software firm, to develop an operating system for its first personal computer.[2]

The fact is Bill gave IBM a good deal. He offered them an operating system (who wrote it is not relevant) at significantly lower costs. He offered a significant discount in the current market price but wanted 100% of the IBM to carry his system (looking back it seems very odd that you would want more than one doesn't it) and for him to own the license. This was IBM's hubris in that they thought the value was in the machines and not the software. They would repeat the mistake with Ross Perot and let him gain ownership of valuable software applications rather than owning them themselves.

It wasn't Bill's dad that made the connection it was his mom. She gained a national profile when she led the U of Washington Regents to divest in companies that were involved in South Africa. She went on to have an impact on many other Corporation Boards and joined the board of directors for the National United Way board which she eventually became the Chairman of. It was there that she met IBM chairman Opel who agreed to take a meeting from Bill. The young Gates analysed the way that IBM was overpaying on their operating system and making it unnecessary complicated for their internal operations by having multiple systems. The rest is history.

[Buckeye_Democrat]

123. Thanks.

I looked at my earlier link and noticed that someone left a comment about his mother's influence. Then another person replied to him: "The fact that Bill Gate's father was a contract lawyer that had written contracts for some of the biggest companies in America helped too."

I have little doubt that Bill Gates worked hard, but that's true for many poor people as well. It would take a person making minimum wage in Ohio about 590,000 years of full-time employment to reach the purported wealth of Trump. That's longer than the age of modern humans.

What kills me is that there's some people (mostly Republicans) who give all the credit to Trump and don't give credit to the people associated with him who did most of the REAL work such as building construction and many other tasks along the way. (Not to mention how often Trump screwed over contractors.)

It's a pro-authoritarian sickness of attitude as far as I'm concerned.

Going back to Gates, I was flabbergasted to see him on some kind of computer trivia TV show many years ago to witness him unable to answer many very simple questions on the subject... answers that I knew despite only being a math/physics student who grudgingly took a few computer programming classes in college! That's when I immediately knew that Gates relied heavily on more talented people under him.

[shireen]

95. i've been hearing other anecdotes

about people who voted for Trump because they didnt think he was serious about his campaign pledges. I cannot even begin to wrap my head around this. What were these people thinking?!

[workinclasszero]

96. What were these people thinking?!

Everything Fox news and Hate radio told them to think.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

100. That he hated immigrants and blacks people

And white peiple were going to have their time in the sun again.

[Proud Liberal Dem]

108. Why

would you vote for somebody whom you didn't think was serious about their campaign pledges- if you wanted what they pledging to do, anyway? The level of dissociation/dissonance among some Trump supporters is incredible (in a massively disappointing way). I heard a left-wing FB friend who loathed Hillary and voted for Trump (though supported Bernie in the primaries) attempt to reassure me that Trump was just saying stuff that he didn't mean and probably wouldn't act upon if elected POTUS.

[mac56]

97. "I never thought leopards would eat MY face..."

[Coventina]

114. That is awesome! I am totally going to steal that!!

[La Lioness Priyanka]

99. Meh. This is what happens when you vote with hate

[whathehell]

101. Guess they should have 'taken him literally'

meaning listened to what he actually said, instead of swooning over his swagger.

[BSdetect]

103. Its all down to hate radio, hate press and hate cable/TV.

Lot's of that crap around.

I know an idiot who listens to RW radio all day when she can.

A complete ignoramus.

She got hip and knee operations under the ACA and still wanted Obamacare repealed.

Yes, you read that right.

Took me a while to explain to her what health care like the ACA really was.

[tblue37]

104. Idiot sticks. nt

[JustAnotherGen]

105. n/s

It's always someone else - isn't it? It's always "Oh poor little old me I didn't know".

[LiberalLovinLug]

116. "Im not really a fan of his policies, but I like the fact that he gave me health insurance"

I'd like to have a follow up question about what were the other policies of his she was not a fan of. Because I think that Hate Radio and Fox News did a masterful job, (not really that hard when they own the airwaves) at flooding the country, especially middle America, with all kinds of gibberish about the evils of Obamacare but also that he was destroying the country, that employment was way up, spending was out of control etc.... without any evidence to support it. And in fact it was the opposite. But if the lie is big enough, and repeated enough, and the people are stupid enough...it works.

[Horse with no Name]

118. Maybe she can raise enough in a GoFundMe to bury him

when he dies for lack of healthcare.

Sorry.
No pity.

[JI7]

124. she thought he would just take it away from "those other people"

you know "THOSE people" ....................

not someone like her.

but THEM..........

[CountAllVotes]

126. Well she got what she voted for

Enjoy your tRump lady ...

[hamsterjill]

128. I cannot and will not condone willful ignorance.

I'm fine with her husband getting the care that he needs AFTER all of the people who knew enough NOT to vote for Trump and will be left with no health care coverage are properly taken care of.

It is the duty and the responsibility of American citizens to be informed voters. Saying "I didn't know" or "I didn't think" is simply not contrite enough in the world that Trump is going to create.

[C_U_L8R]

129. And they get mad when people call them stupid

The damn proof is in the pudding. Dumbasses.

[underpants]

130. What a dumbass

[Vogon_Glory]

133. There's no fool like an old fool! One of my Dad's favorite lines

My Dad was fond of saying "There's no fool like an old fool!" when some politician or public figure did or said something egregiously stupid or reactionary. Mind you, my Dad was what was once considered to be moderate conservative, a GOP faction now reduced to being little more than useful-idiot status to aid the Ryans' and the Kochs' reactionary agendas.

Regardless of my Dad's political opinions, I still believe that he was right. Several decades of living can give you experience as to who's who and what's what. Used properly, it gives you the experience to go with the observation to inform you who is lying to you, who is incompetent, and what looks like Bee S.

Figuring out which politicians or broadcasters (secular and religious both) were lying to you isn't that hard or all that time-consuming. I believe anyone with a high school diploma and average intelligence can do it.

My beef with Trump voters is that they had days, weeks, months, and years to figure out that Trump and the Republicans were lying to them and they refused to pick up the tools provided by experience, literacy, and, I'll say it, prayer and meditation to make wiser choices this fall, AND THEY REFUSED TO USE THEM.

My belief about older Trump voters is they go-created what's about to fall on them (And the rest of us too) and they were old enough to know better.