It's not the economy, stupid. "Drain the Swamp" has different meanings for liberals/conservatives:

[DetlefK]

http://www.salon.com/2016/12/21/drain-the-swamp-of-all-those-p-c-liberals-turns-out-trumpers-dont-care-about-lobbyists-or-plutocrats/

During the campaign, Donald Trump frequently promised that once in Washington he would “drain the swamp.” That phrase was generously interpreted by huge swaths of the news media to mean that Trump intended, in populist style, to reduce the influence of elite bankers and corporate lobbyists in politics. That, in turn, means that the president-elect has been accused of hypocrisy when he immediately turned around and started hiring a bunch of bankers and billionaires and other such swamp critters.

But there’s little evidence that Trump’s supporters ever thought he was talking about the influence of financial elites or big corporations when he swore to drain that swamp. On the contrary, they seem to be have understood it as reading it as an attack on liberalism and its defenders.

A new poll, conducted by the Glover Park Group and Morning Consult, was released on Tuesday that asked a series of far-ranging and in-depth questions of Trump supporters. What one finds, digging into the results, is that Trump’s base has no coherent ideology around economic issues like trade policy or financial regulation.

...

That’s why it’s important, especially for journalists, not to assume that the phrase “drain the swamp” is meant by Trump, or heard by his supporters, as describing the influence of special interests or lobbyists on Beltway politics. Yes, that’s what most politicians mean when they use that phrase, but there’s reason to believe that for Trump, it’s a vague phrase that allows his followers to define “the swamp” however they want. And what they really want to do is hate on liberals.

Trump himself admitted that the phrase is empty rhetoric he spews because it’s a good applause line. In a post-election rally in Iowa, Trump let this bit of truth slip out during one of his tedious ramblings:

"It’s funny how that term caught on. … I told everyone I hated it. Somebody said, “Drain the swamp.” I said, “Oh that’s so hokey, that is so terrible.” I said, “All right, I’ll try it.” So like a month ago I said, “Drain the swamp.” Place went crazy. Then I said it again. Then I started saying it like I meant it. And then I started loving it. And the place loved it. Let’s drain the swamp."

...

Most Trump supporters don’t go that far, but the conversation on Twitter shows that, by and large, “drain the swamp” is understood as a culture-war term referring to liberals, and not corrupt politicians.




----------------

Can we pleeeeeeeeeeeeease stop with the bullshit now that the Trump-voters are economically hurting?

There is no way the Democrats can win these voters back with any promise, be it economy or otherwise, because these people don't care about anything Democrats have to say.

They hate your guts for no reason.

They just do.

Stop trying to please them, quit this abusive relationship and move on.

[Comatose Sphagetti]

1. Stop trying to please them, quit this abusive relationship and move on.

This.

[Rage4Bacon]

47. You do understand that is precisely the definition of an election?

Who can please the most voters? If you have some other agenda, then be prepared to keep losing.

[BumRushDaShow]

2. K&R

The deplorables consider "the swamp" to be anyone not looking like them, thinking like them, or believing like them.

[billh58]

60. Sounds an awful lot

like some groups on DU.

[BumRushDaShow]

61. Except

that it's pretty much a given that the people who participate in the groups at DU would have been unanimous in their opposition to Drumpf.

[billh58]

62. It would be nice to think that

but I'm not convinced. I believe that some groups on DU have been infiltrated by right-wing trolls.

[BumRushDaShow]

63. I do not consider trolls to be worthy of inclusion on DU. nt

[Cosmocat]

3. For the 1,000th time

This was NOT an economic election, it was a cultural election. As this highlights. And, frankly, every election the last quarter century has been.

[hibbing]

24. half argue

I did see a poll in which 68% of Trump voters believe the stock market went down and unemployment went up during President Obama's term. But I think that sadly, a very large influence was race.


Peace

[Pacifist Patriot]

4. I've tried telling that to people since he began using it.

I actually got into pretty loud quite frustrating arguments over this. I knew from the start it had nothing to do with cronyism, corruption, Washington insiders, corporatists, or the like. From the very beginning it seemed pretty darn clear to me that liberals, progressives, Democrats, feminists, atheists, intellectuals, Muslims, Mexicans, African Americans, i.e. anyone who can be defined as "other" constituted the swamp to be drained. I found the phrase creepy and alarming and was told I was "reading too much into it."

[Fast Walker 52]

7. but the phrase has a historical meaning that is about corruption and Washington deals

In any case, no one should have taken anything he said literally, he was the most dishonest awful candidate of my 54 year old life.

[Pacifist Patriot]

14. You'll get no argument from me on that.

But that's precisely why I didn't interpret "drain the swamp" to refer to corruption and Washington deals. Nothing the man said could be taken either literally or how it is conventionally meant.

[Fast Walker 52]

17. do you think he knew how misleading it was or the real connotation?

[Pacifist Patriot]

18. I don't think he cared either way at the start.

Based on his own words, he didn't much like the phrase and only ran with it when he saw how it resonated with the people at his rallies.

I'd be willing to bet he was clued in at some point that the people at his rallies were not personally interpreting the phrase as it's traditionally been used. And that played very nicely for his purposes.

[Fast Walker 52]

19. sounds about right

[liberalmike27]

44. As do many things.

Reform.

Making America Great Again.

Pretty much anything they say.

Matter of fact, Republicans are masters of slogans, that don't say anything, but are open to positive interpretation, that can often be completely different. You can actually agree, but be agreeing to something completely different than what they mean. But they get your agreement, even if you're basically agreeing to their interpretation.

I would love for a "journalist" to ask that question, or say "Hey Mr. Trump, that doesn't mean anything," or "That can mean a lot of things, how exactly do you mean it?" But nope--journalists don't exist, just talkers, corporate talkers.

[Fast Walker 52]

48. what I would love is to have is Trump really be forced to listen to and answer

some hard questions about what the fuck he knows and how much he realizes he lies about and so forth.

Sadly, that will never happen.

[kaiden]

12. This is exactly why it alarmed me so.

[freepotter]

39. Swamp ni***r

You are exactly right. Research the meaning/use of the term "swamp n****r" and see there is any doubt that he was talking to his racist, xenophobic, hateful followers. That is a a very old term used by racists to describe the lowest, poorest "others" in their twisted world. I haven't heard it since the Viet Nam era, but it came back to me in a flash as soon as I heard the Orange Dolt, Mr. Tramp utter those words "drain the swamp". Maybe it was because I had the misfortune to grow up with a racist father and hear the term several times from him, but looking at Tramp's picks for various appointments, and the groups of people that are missing, that appears to be exactly what he had planned. (No exception for Dr. Carson.)

[Fast Walker 52]

5. I figured that was their fallback meaning BUT he also explicitly ran a campaign against

the elites, and bankers, and his last campaign ad was clearly against global bankers.

Not to mention that a lot of people voted for him as a rejection of globalism.

[0rganism]

28. to Trumpists, "global bankers" equal Jews

you can fill in the blanks from there. Trump's followers certainly did.

[KittyWampus]

49. He hammered Clinton on Goldman Sacks. Sorry, but trying redefine what Trump said is bull.

[0rganism]

57. tell it to the Trumpists, they do it all the time

they're so used to getting dog whistles from politicians, it doesn't even matter what Trump actually says; they'll twist it to fit whatever makes him represent their favorite paradigm.

[MichMan]

6. Nancy Pelosi used the term extensively in 2006 as well n/t

[ProfessorGAC]

8. As Fast Walker Said Above. . .

. . .Trump meant it in the traditional way. Now that he's turned on his heels and did the opposite of draining the swamp, his supporters and this author are looking for a way to rationalize it.

He meant it the way it was always used, they believed he would actually do that in the traditional sense, and now they're excusing his failure to walk the walk.

[Caliman73]

21. Trump voters are not coherent

I agree that he meant it in the traditional sense as well. He ran a right wing populist campaign using both "cultural elites" and economic elites as foils. He called out Hillary Clinton's ties to Goldman Sachs specifically and talked about trade deals knowing that those are typically done at and for American business interests going overseas.

The problem is that I think that the author is also somewhat correct. His voters don't care. They are not terribly smart and are blindly following this "powerful leader" who tells them what they want to hear. They project their own fears and meaning into what he said and the simply don't care. A response you hear quite often from Trump supporters when talking about taking away health care or cutting back on services is, "I didn't think he would actually do it. He was just being a politician". They voted for this man knowing that he was very comfortable lying and thinking that he did not even intend to try to fulfill campaign promises. Many of his most ardent supporters I think, just want to see things burn down. They think that in restructuring society, that they will assume their place on top once more, as has been promised throughout the last 35 years by Republicans.

Those of us who voted for Bernie in the primaries and Hillary in the general, understand that they would not be able to get everything they wanted to accomplished. We knew that it was going to be a horrific battle for Sanders to try and get universal healthcare into the forefront or for Clinton to push through student loan reform. We knew however, that either one of them was going to fight and try to do what they said.

[ProfessorGAC]

25. Essentially Agree

I still think some of those voters knew what that meant and are now rationalizing that he "really" meant something else.

[KittyWampus]

51. Thank you. This is redefining the term to benefit Trump. It's to benefit Trump. Don't buy it.

He categorically cast himself as an outsider. He railed against Hillary/Goldman Sacks.

I'm not going to to start pulling out all his b.s.

But the OP is NOT WHAT HE MEANT. It's not what his supporters heard.

[IronLionZion]

9. Some of them might literally destroy protected wetlands and kill wildlife

but many would like to drain out any liberals, minorities, women, muslims, gays, climate change scientists, and anyone else who might disagree with them.

[muriel_volestrangler]

10. The results of the poll of Trump voters are interesting

http://gpg.com/gpg-survey-trump-voters-december-2016/

Most surprising so far - page 13:

"Would you support or oppose a proposal that requires U.S. companies to reduce carbon emissions that cause climate change?"
Strongly support 24%
Somewhat support 37%
Not sure 11%
Somewhat oppose 15%
Strongly oppose 13%

[Ace Rothstein]

15. So they are against polluting, just don't link it to climate change or they lose their shit.

That's what looking through some of this tells me.

[muriel_volestrangler]

16. Well, that slide does link it to climate change

which was what surprised me. However, they do also say they favour more fossil fuel extraction from public lands, so they're not exactly green.

[Caliman73]

22. It shows their lack of understanding

It isn't really a surprise for a Trump voter. These are the same people who want to "keep the government out of my Medicare" while electing politicians whose main goal is to use government to privatize the system.

Republicans, and more specifically those who voted for Trump, have shown that they engage in quite a bit of magical thinking. Holding the idea that "companies should limit their carbon emissions" while supporting more carbon emitting fuels to be extracted is not a stretch for them. It makes my head hurt thinking about how you would square that circle. I doubt they even consider the contradictions.

[liberalmike27]

45. You Need

A category

I choose to ignore 97% of all scientists, the ones not working for energy companies, and claim there is no 'global climate change,' and science in general, when it doesn't suit me.

[Politicub]

11. We are the swamp

It wasn't "insiders" that trump was promising to get rid of. In trumpland the swamp is ordinary men and women who don't subscribe to the ideology of the far right.

[kaiden]

13. I concur.

[KittyWampus]

52. You are wrong. That is not what he said. The OP is wrong. He cast himself as an outsider

over and over and over again.

He railed against Clinton/Goldman Sacks.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

20. It's a stupid metaphor from the get go.

Swamps are actually valuable wetlands that help filter out impurities and provide vital habitats for multiple creatures.

People who want to drain wetlands and replace it with something concrete and unnatural typically do more harm than good.

Sure I might be accused of taking it too literally, but I think the metaphor still stands in a much more malicious manner.

[Caliman73]

23. True, but swamps also carry a lot of vectors and dangers.

Remember that prior to anti malarial medications, and to this day in developing countries, vector borne illnesses typically from swampy habitats, are a major killer.

Draining the swamp was typically meant from an immediate human perspective, to clear the area of habitat for disease carrying insects and dangerous animals.

[Angry Dragon]

31. DC is built on a swamp

[liberalmike27]

46. Don't You Think

That is the meaning, to drain the DC swamp? I'd imagine it's what they mean when they say it.

[Angry Dragon]

66. No ........... I would be surprized if they know that it was built on a swamp

[Jacob Boehme]

26. Just wait until tRump gets his group hug from the twin Tar-Babies....

....McConnell and Ryan. Then the tRumpster will get his own version of waterboarding in the "Swamp".

[ismnotwasm]

27. Great read

[bucolic_frolic]

29. Abe Lincoln was great at double entendres

Freedom and opportunity meant land and jobs to farmers,
unlimited westward expansion and profits to railroads (Lincoln's
main clients when he was a lawyer), and tariffs and unhindered
domestic pricing to northern manufacturers.

And he is rarely called out for it.

[Angry Dragon]

30. Trump is going to drain the swamp and replace it with a SEWER

[Flatpicker]

32. I think

It's been pretty clear that most of this has been about stiggin it to the libs.

Been going on for a long time already. W made it ok to hurt yourself as long as you thumbed the eye of a liberal.

Of course, Liberals did make the mistake of giving away the farm in terms of local elections. We spent too much time pointing and laughing, and not enough getting involved.

Dems aren't going to win back voters whose whole point of voting is to get back at the east/west coasts simply for existing.

[Generator]

33. Or as I like to say

Dems making nice with Nazi's. Nah. Nazi's need to be defeated and shut up. The silent majority wants you to not exist. So we need to get them to go back in their holes. They are the minority not us.

[IronLionZion]

34. Remembering President Wilson's Purge of Black Federal Workers

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/remembering-president-wilsons-purge-of-black-federal-workers

There is precedent for the type of "swamp draining" they want.

The fact that they would ask for a list of climate change researchers is damning. It foreshadows the purges to come for liberals, educated elitists, and anyone who disagrees with them.

[iluvtennis]

35. WOW, words have specific meanings...you can't just redefine it...

to what you want it to mean after Traitor Trump does the opposite of what he told you at his rallies he was going to do. This is so ridiculous. There is nothing that Trump can do that his voters won't buy into. GAH, GAH, GAH, so pathetic

[MarianJack]

36. The new grand Wizard's method of "draining the swamp" is...

...to fill the water with sharks. SHIT!

PEACE!

[tclambert]

37. I heard somebody say Trump's manner of speaking was like a Rorschach test.

The lack of concrete details, ambiguous statements, and incomplete sentences allow his listeners to fill in the information for themselves. Thus, they hear what they want to hear, and he can later claim to have said something completely different. He makes lots of noise yet conveys very little information. And the minds of his listeners fills in the blanks.




(I think it's Darryl Dixon riding his motorcycle.)

[DallasNE]

38. That's A Scary Thought. Very Scary

“drain the swamp” is understood as a culture-war term

Is he saying that he is going to round up his political opponents (draining the swamp) and then do what with them -- throw them in jail. That's McCarthyism on steroids.

And why is all of the vetting of Trump going on after November 8th?

[Hortensis]

59. The Constitution is under attack--draining the swamp

is ultimately about removing liberalism from our constitution. Principles such as separation of church and state, equality, and inalienable rights do NOT resonate with conservatives. They see them, and liberals of course, as the fonts of what is wrong with our society.

And behind ordinary conservatives--teaching and fueling their hostility and what is fast becoming a commitment to civil war if necessary--are giant right wing conspiracies, both religious and secular/libertarian, intent on destroying those elements in the constitution that offend their beliefs, or just get in their way. Most of the figures around Trump, such as Bannon, and ultrawealthy people behind them, are involved with both forces.

[Bear Creek]

40. Means us

If you are not a millionaire and work for a living, disabled, or just plain poor, you are the swamp. The people who voted for trump always think he is talking about someone else.

[UCmeNdc]

41. This article is propaganda for Trump. His followers knew what drain the swamp meant

It meant to get rid of the bankers. Hillary was in with the bankers so she was one of them.
Now Trump's propaganda machine is changing the meaning of his drain the swamp motto. Do not let them get away with this lie.

[KittyWampus]

53. Thank you. To you and every one else who refuses to make excuses for Trump and the attempts to

make excuses for him.

[They_Live]

42. Perhaps "Drain the Swamp" is a euphemism

for going to the bathroom.

"I'll be right back, just need to go drain the swamp!"

[7962]

43. Not really, i've heard several talking about the "swamp" including several republicans

like graham and McConnell

[KittyWampus]

50. This is a lot of bull. Trump was referring to Hillary/Goldman Sacks and everyone spoke

about how he'd bring in outsiders.

This is a total rewriting of history.

[Blanks]

54. Now that he's in Washington...

It's clear that 'the swamp' is a euphemism for the treasury.

I hope that clears it up.

[treestar]

55. It does seem true. Here is an article

https://www.salon.com/2016/12/23/conservatism-turned-toxic-donald-trumps-fanbase-has-no-actual-ideology-just-a-nihilistic-hatred-of-liberals/

[mitch96]

56. He is not draining the swamp

He is just changing the water...

m

[Beartracks]

58. "They hate [liberals'] guts for no reason. "

Yep.

I've always maintained that for all the racism inherent in much of the Obama criticism over the last eight years, the Republicans would've been just as vile, demeaning, self-righteous, and obstructionist with ANY Democratic President regardless of race. We would've seen the race-tinged insults replaced with the usual commie-godless-milquetoast-socialist-tax-n-spend rhetoric, but that's all; the hatred would've been just as loud and obvious, but expressed with different language. They just had an excuse to fire up the base with a racist veneer on their usual anti-Democratic crap, but they would've gotten to the same place eventually anyway. Especially since there would still have been so many People Of Color to hate on during that time period -- some Americans, some foreign -- that the color of the President's skin wouldn't have changed a whole lot.

===========================

[mdbl]

64. This one line in the post sums it all up about trump supporters

'But there’s little evidence that Trump’s supporters ever thought'

[Scurrilous]

65. K & R

[JudyM]

67. Looks like the population sample of this research is his most ardent followers, not the voters we

need to communicate with/win over. Of course his followers have no coherent ideas about the economy and of course they hate libruls.

[hadEnuf]

68. It's funny how Trump supporters incoherent views practically mirror what right wing media spouts

on a daily basis.

The propaganda brainwashing is already complete for some, but now there will be Steve Bannon as Propaganda Minister....



It's the media. It's always been about the media.

[DonnaRx7]

69. Geeez, really?

People are just now realizing this?

Wow!

[bucolic_frolic]

70. Throughout history

when economic inequality became too great, things changed

1776, 1792, 1848, 1917
Old King George
Louis XVI
Bourbons
Romanovs
UK France US Italy Hungary Greece
Ancient Rome

Our system will avoid extremes, hopefully, since we can throw
them out (we think) in another election, but we have work to do