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question everything

(47,470 posts)
Mon Dec 26, 2016, 10:39 PM Dec 2016

Dont Believe the New Myths About Americas White Working Class

TIME's Joe Klein wrote this in September and now it really sinks in

(snip)

Meanwhile, working-class whites are convinced that immigrants are taking their jobs and that blacks have long been coddled by public assistance. In a recent National Review piece, J.D. Vance, author of Hillbilly Elegy, cites research that shows “the average white person now feels that anti-white bias is a bigger problem than other forms of racial discrimination.”

Hillbilly Elegy has been the book of the summer among the political cognoscenti of both parties. It is Vance’s memoir of his escape from the Appalachian culture of pride and poverty–a culture that seems to be disintegrating, much the way the black working class fell apart starting in the 1960s, but without the history of racial oppression. The white out-of-wedlock birthrate, which is about 30%, is now higher than the black rate was (about 25%) when Daniel Patrick Moynihan correctly identified family disintegration as a significant problem in 1965. The current black rate has been stuck at about 70%.

There is significant irony here: the culture described in Hillbilly Elegy is so similar to that of the black underclass that it demolishes the perennial racist argument that these sorts of behaviors – sexual profligacy, drug dependency, violence, indigence and a free-range sense of helplessness that leads to irresponsibility – are unique to African Americans. Something else, something far more complicated is going on, a cultural dilemma that has erupted with the “liberation” of American society over the past 50 years. It is a phenomenon that transcends the prevailing liberal (and Trumpian) theory that the white-black underclass was caused by the departure of manufacturing jobs. That may have been true 40 years ago, when the jobs began to leave. But it is less true now, as habits of indolence – the inability to show up to work on time, the refusal to follow orders on the job, the preference to hang out at a home often subsidized by the federal government – have taken hold. Vance worked for a summer in a floor-tile warehouse near his hometown in Ohio. It was relatively easy work, paying $13 per hour, a good salary in Appalachia. But “the managers found it impossible to fill my warehouse position with a long-term employee.” In hillbilly country, as in urban America, a great many people simply lack the discipline to work.

(snip)

But the conservative belief that the underclass was caused by federal antipoverty programs is clearly insufficient too. Vance makes it clear that the problem is profoundly cultural, a consequence of wanton commercialism, the loosening of moral standards and a lack of rigorous training for young men. Vance was saved by the Marine Corps and the support of a single loving adult, his grandmother.

Hillbilly Elegy makes the current political dialogue seem fatuous. Both parties are incapable of discussing the real sources of our national dyspepsia, or how to deal with them. Forces like the global economy, racism and federal programs that cultivated dependency have all been part of the problem. But what we have now is something different: a bottom-up crisis of individual responsibility, largely beyond the reach of public policy. Indeed, some of the “solutions” proposed by each of the parties are likely to make things worse.

http://time.com/4475630/dont-believe-the-new-myths-about-americas-white-working-class/


9 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Dont Believe the New Myths About Americas White Working Class (Original Post) question everything Dec 2016 OP
"...average white person now feels that anti-white bias is a bigger problem.." Cause there's a media uponit7771 Dec 2016 #1
I wish people wouldn't conflate working class and blue collar. LonePirate Dec 2016 #2
wanton commercialism, the loosening of moral standards & a lack of rigorous training for young men? FarCenter Dec 2016 #3
"government" can't "fix" it Cosmocat Dec 2016 #5
Why not? A domestic peace corps program? question everything Dec 2016 #6
They could benefit from the sergeant major yelling at them. former9thward Dec 2016 #7
Which is why I said "universal conscription" in my comment FarCenter Dec 2016 #8
A wonderful breathe of fresh air Cosmocat Dec 2016 #4
Plato called it. gulliver Dec 2016 #9

uponit7771

(90,335 posts)
1. "...average white person now feels that anti-white bias is a bigger problem.." Cause there's a media
Mon Dec 26, 2016, 10:42 PM
Dec 2016

... who feeds this to them and regular media outlets who wont label the stupid and false news feeders fringe.

They're about money

 

FarCenter

(19,429 posts)
3. wanton commercialism, the loosening of moral standards & a lack of rigorous training for young men?
Tue Dec 27, 2016, 09:26 AM
Dec 2016

What would a government program to address these things look like?

Universal conscription at age 18 for two years of military service or uniformed public service?

Cosmocat

(14,563 posts)
5. "government" can't "fix" it
Tue Dec 27, 2016, 10:02 AM
Dec 2016

this is the result of the world around us, and our need as parents to have things be better, and by extension easier, for our children.

Fact:

Our kids today (born in the 90s/2000s) have an easier life and live in a much more convenient world than we did, and by extension simply do not have the work ethic that we had.

We (born in the 70s/80s) had an easier life and live in a much more convenient world than our parents did, and by extension simply did not have the work ethic our parents had.

Our parents (born in the 50s/60s) had an easier life and lived in a much more convenient world than their parents did, and by extension simply did not have the work ethic our parents had.

Their parents (born in the 30s/40s) had an easier life and lived in a much more convenient world than their parent did, and by extension simply did not have the work ethic our parents had.

Etc.

The "issue" with all of this is due to the incredible advances of technology and society here in America. It may be primarily debt backed, but our standard of living is so high collectively we have lost sight of what "difficult" really is.

Government can't fix that except in this one regard - we have one party that is COMPLETELY co opted by for profit elements that has driven this country to literally lose its fucking mind. While democrats are completely worthless at this point, the one thing government COULD do is move away from the insane "conservative" thinking.

Not going to happen, it is only going to get worse.

question everything

(47,470 posts)
6. Why not? A domestic peace corps program?
Tue Dec 27, 2016, 09:09 PM
Dec 2016

Getting young men and women to get off social media and report for duty someplace away form home where they would be judged by what they are, not who they are.

With the pressure of student loan and getting the degree that promises successful career, many would benefit from delaying this decision. I once heard of a 45 year old dentist who decided to change career. An 18 year old kid made this decision for me, to study dental medicine, he said.

We need many to work in the inner cities, to help maintain schools that are falling apart, help with park trails, help with elderly, lonely people. Yes, our taxes should be used for many of these purposes but they are not. Thus, use young people to fill the gap, to feel needed, to take pride in actually accomplishing something.

Well, perhaps I am naive, but many of these young men who just sit around could benefit from a sergeant major yelling "give me five.."

former9thward

(31,981 posts)
7. They could benefit from the sergeant major yelling at them.
Tue Dec 27, 2016, 10:09 PM
Dec 2016

But the point is they are not going to do it when you can sit around all day playing video games.

 

FarCenter

(19,429 posts)
8. Which is why I said "universal conscription" in my comment
Thu Dec 29, 2016, 03:55 PM
Dec 2016

The first 12 weeks would have to be boot camp for all 18 year old men and women.

There is a complication if the women have children. But the kids could be placed in care for at least the boot camp, and would probably benefit since the ability of 18 year old mothers to care for them is questionable at best.

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