Americans favor liberal policies, so why do we lose?

[Willie Pep]

Here is something that I find puzzling. You often hear people say that the United States is a center-right country. But there seems to be a good bit of evidence against this claim.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/04/26/sorry-teabaggers-america-really-loves-these-liberal-policies.html

http://www.politicususa.com/2015/06/03/polls-americans-socialists-bernie-sanders.html

So if Americans favor liberal policies like a higher minimum wage and expanding Social Security and Medicare, why do Democrats, and often quite liberal Democrats, lose so often these days?

EDIT: I want to add another twist to this issue. In addition to liking many of the legacies of liberalism like Social Security and Medicare, I often hear conservatives say that they like "old school Democrats" like JFK but that modern Democrats are "too liberal." I find it odd that people would think that the 1960s Democratic Party is conservative since you could make an argument that the party has moved to the right on economics since the 1960s.

So what gives? I find this confusing. You have people who like liberal policies, liked old school liberal Democrats like JFK, but hate today's Democrats because they are too left-wing?

[tecelote]

1. We're viewed as wimps. Snowflakes.

The Republicans walk all over us.

A party with liberal policies and a backbone would win.

[brutus smith]

10. Spot on

Our congressmen and Senators put Liberal policies aside in order to "get along". You don't see repubs putting their policies aside. We will continue to be looked at as weak.

[hamsterjill]

13. Thank you!

So glad to see that someone else "gets it". We aren't going to win by "going high" any more. As much as I personally would love it if that concept could work, we are beyond that now.

You cannot take a knife to a gun fight and expect to win. The other side is dictating the playing field right now, and there is no choice but to confront them on THEIR terms. If Dems can't or won't engage in that respect, we will continue to lose.

[Cosmocat]

26. A knife would be a big improvement

seriously, the Ds have been bringing cupcakes to the gun fights of the last three decades.

[Jim Beard]

43. Most of them have except Bernie. The one least likely looking to win an actual fight.

Plus Elizabeth and Maxine. We have some fighters but not enough.

[Cosmocat]

62. Al Franken

I struggle to need more than one hand to count the number of Ds with gonads ...
Bernie, Warren, Franken, I will give you Maxine ...

[pangaia]

51. Tony Bourdain for DNC chair..

[Cosmocat]

61. That is about it

nm

[RKP5637]

53. Good for you! I said something like that the other day and my post was hidden as being

a RW talking point! FFS!!! No wonder we lose!!!

[hamsterjill]

55. There are some on DU who insist that we must learn to "get along" with Republicans

And try to win/sway the "working class" voters. I've seen several posts chastising anything that said otherwise.

We cannot afford to try to "get along". We've been doing that for many, many years and the Republicans have played THAT to THEIR advantage. As to the "working class" voters, either they wise up and see that they are voting against their owns self interests, or else we have simply got to outnumber them.

Democrats need to learn to FIGHT the Republicans, to FIGHT for their voters, and to DEMAND a fair, level playing field.

[Sherman A1]

2. The GOP has for a long time been better

At the war of words and framing the case for their election by appealing to fear and hatred.

[Squinch]

7. Exactly. Better messaging.

I used to be in marketing in a field where we could test every word and nuance of the presentation to the public. A few times we tested whether fear or greed was a better motivator. Fear won out every time, and the bigger the fear the bigger the sales.

"Death panels!" "They're gonna take away your guns!" "A terrorist in the White House, a terrorist at your door!" All of these were moronic and easily seen through, but they were not seen through. Imagine what we could do with the terrifying truth of the Republican policies.

We legitimately have many things to scare the populous with in our messaging with respect to the Republicans, more now than ever. We SHOULD use the terrifying truth and beat people over the head with it.

[Cosmocat]

27. In my three decades of adult life I have gotten past a VERY naive belief

I went into the 90s with this naive belief that the "voter" on average would make good decisions collectively and "get it right."

Maybe that was the case prior, but that whole concept spent the last quarter century swirling around the inside of the toilet before one final, unceremonious flush on November 8th.

Increasingly, starting in the 90s when talk radio really took hold and the media passively started bending to the right wing, then in the 2000s when we could not criticize the CIC with troops in the field and were america hating terrorist loving POS if we didn't obediently follow them over the cliff and for the last 8 years with the right wing completely unhinged and the media full on cheer leading them, we have seen the out and out realization of a body politic based exactly on what you note - stoking fear and hatred to win elections.

[the_sly_pig]

3. Harry Reid.

When he gets really, really mad, he writes a letter.

[Grey Lemercier]

4. The Republicans are much more organised at state and local level, they

Last edited Wed Dec 28, 2016, 11:24 AM - Edit history (1)

are utterly ruthless and have gamed the federalist power structure by kettling our voting power into giant urban areas and giant states where the power is diluted, they play the long game, and they have 3 ultimately driving forces of their minions to accomplish this dominance, fundie xianism, racism, and greed.

[Trekologer]

44. All politics is local and the GOP has been excellent at targeting that

We need a 50 state strategy and each state needs a local strategy that works for that state. We need to be cultivating new candidates at the local levels so that we have a full stable ready to rise to the next level.

[lake loon]

5. One word: Media

The success of liberal policies in protecting the elderly, educating our children, protecting our water and air, etc., is never full communicated by corrupt corporate media. For example, every news item about Congress' fight against Obamacare should include the fact that congressmen get free, public-paid health care for LIFE.

On the contrary, EVERY topic is framed from the near right, the medium right or the far right. Democrats who stand up for our policies are seldom, if ever, heard in media reports. They're never heard on radio news at all. I've worked in media and studied media for four decades and see the Goebbels-like scrubbing of news that goes on all around us.

And it's worse than ever.

[RBInMaine]

14. Yes but the DEMS need to COMMUNICATE. It is THEIR communication that truly stinks!

[lake loon]

16. But how do they communicate ...

when nothing they say is reported?

[tblue37]

41. The Republicans play the long game. One aspect of that is the

willingness of right wing oligarchs to invest in communication channels and think tanks, as well as funding candidates, activists and activist groups, and party offices at all levels. They fund candidates for every office, no matter how local and insignificant, and those GOP candidates often run unopposed!

Those local and state politicians make their bones, gain invaluable political skills, and establish national profiles, thus becoming familiar to potential voters, many of whom vote largely on name recognition.

Unlike the Democratic Party, the GOP always has a lot of new talent in the pipeline because they actively cultivate their future officeholders, funding them, training/mentoring them, and providing them with opportunities to present themselves to politically active party members and to the general public.

Wealthy right wingers are true believers, willing to keep funding their RW media, even if they take a loss on some of them.

The GOP has most of the billionaires willing to commit to long term funding of political activism: the Koch brothers, the late Richard Mellon Scaife, Sheldon Addelson, Rupert Murdoch, the Mercers (i.e., Cheato's main wealthy supporters), etc.

Juan Cole once wrote an essay about how after completing his PhD he watched his RW classmates get recruited for well paid jobs at right wing think tanks or on Republican politicians' staffs, while he struggled to find any sort of decently paid work.

We have most of the really popular entertainers, but they tend to be multimillionaires, not billionaires, and many of them can barely afford to maintain their own lavish lifestyles and entourages. They donate to some high profile candidates, mostly for national offices, but ignore the need to build party & political infrastructure. They lack the intense political understanding and involvement and the money
to play the long game the way the RW billionaires do.

Usually liberal movie stars or other entertainers, like athletes or musicians, will focus on raising awareness and funding for a pet cause, only turning their attention to elections every four years, and then almost exclusively to presidential elections. Think, for example, of George Clooney's focus on Darfur, except for his Hollywood fundraising parties for Democratic presidential candidates.

George Soros is the main politically savvy billionaire on our side willing to invest in infrastructure for long term goals, but his political attention (and money) is spread around the world, in efforts to promote democratic/liberal goals in many different countries.

[Trekologer]

45. Locally, one-on-one if necessary

There is too much focus on national faces and not enough on state and local ones.

[Cosmocat]

28. YEP

The media has 2 primary marching orders:

Liberal bad
Conservative good

SO, it is always bad news for the dems, the rs are on the march.

And as you noted, it has gotten exponentially worse over time.

It was passive in the 90s.

Now, these assholes don't much try to hide it.

[LaydeeBug]

6. BECAUSE THE KGOPB FUCKING CHEATS AND THE DEMS ROLL OVER AND HONE THEIR MESSAGE INSTEAD OF

FIGHTING THE FUCK BACK.

[hamsterjill]

15. +1

Dems have got to learn to fight the Republicans on the Reoublicans' terms. No more niceties!!!

[TheFrenchRazor]

75. the game is definitely rigged; no amount of "message honing" will change that. nt

[LaydeeBug]

84. and if we let their shit slide, it's only going to get worse.

welcome to DU

[uponit7771]

83. +1

[democratisphere]

8. Republicans are fueled by greed, self-centeredness and

anger at having to share or support anything but themselves. This collective mindset is thier powerful motivator to get out the vote.

[Cosmocat]

29. YEP

"conservatism" is founded at its core to appeal to those who default is to be self interested.

[coco22]

9. Most of the people who claim to be conservative..

are full of shit,they are more liberal than the Democrats they call liberal. They have abortion,they commit adultery,they smoke marijuana and use heroin,meth,cocaine,etc. They fornicate,they lie,cheat steal all of the things that they claim are LIBERAL.What is Liberal?

It all depends on where you stand and how they use it, Dems have let the CONS define the party for decades. I personally think I am liberal on some issues and conservative on others but RepubliCons are hypocrites.

[raccoon]

11. Because a lot of idiots are single-issue voters. nt

[JHan]

65. Yep [phone]

[brutus smith]

12. Define message

We have to define ourselves and not let the repubs do it.

[Soxfan58]

17. Remember

Repugs have won one presidential popular vote since 1988, and that was very narrow.

[Botany]

18. Because the other side cheats and lies.

a liberal;

adjective
1.
favorable to progress or reform, as in political or religious affairs.
2.
(often initial capital letter) noting or pertaining to a political party advocating measures of progressive political reform.
3.
of, pertaining to, based on, or advocating liberalism, especially the freedom of the individual and governmental guarantees of individual rights and liberties.
4.
favorable to or in accord with concepts of maximum individual freedom possible, especially as guaranteed by law and secured by governmental protection of civil liberties.
5.
favoring or permitting freedom of action, especially with respect to matters of personal belief or expression:
a liberal policy toward dissident artists and writers.
6.
of or relating to representational forms of government rather than aristocracies and monarchies.
7.
free from prejudice or bigotry; tolerant:
a liberal attitude toward foreigners.

[jalan48]

19. Money backs those who don't favor liberal policies.

American's got Social Security at a time when the ruling class was fearful the rabble would revolt like the citizens of Russia had done only a few years earlier. Better a little Socialism than lose the whole ball of wax. These days fear of revolt is so far away in the minds of the obscenely rich that they gleefully shove their trickle down economics and austerity plans down the the throats of the common people with impunity. Anyone else having caviar and champagne on New Year's eve?

[Cosmocat]

31. RIGHT

I tell people this and they just don't get it.

Our standard of living may be debt based, but it is so high, and people are so caught up in the frivolous, that there is no sense of jeopardy - THIS is why collectively people make such careless decisions in the voting booth, and it is so far gone now - this stuid ass country just made DONALD FUCKING TRUMP POTUS.

That is a level of stupid that, and I don't post this lightly, people need to feel whatever pain is coming to WTFU.

[jalan48]

37. Waiting in the wings is environmental collapse with the accompanying shortages of food and water.

Frivolous is exactly true-the corporate media floods us with it on a daily basis. No need to worry, it's all fun and games. Look at what Kim K. is wearing today, I want that! I think, not too far in the future, change will come like a light switch being flipped. Those with adequate funds will jet off to their safe places while the rest of us are left to fight over scraps.

"With growing inequality and the civil unrest from Ferguson and the Occupy protests fresh in people’s mind, the world’s super rich are already preparing for the consequences. At a packed session in Davos, former hedge fund director Robert Johnson revealed that worried hedge fund managers were already planning their escapes. “I know hedge fund managers all over the world who are buying airstrips and farms in places like New Zealand because they think they need a getaway,” he said.

https://www.theguardian.com/public-leaders-network/2015/jan/23/nervous-super-rich-planning-escapes-davos-2015

[aidbo]

50. Money backs strong republicans and weak democrats.

[jalan48]

56. Money backs those who will vote for its interests.

[aidbo]

59. i.e. Strong republicans who stand up for money's interests..

..and weak democrats that capitulate and compromise with money's interests.

[jalan48]

63. I guess it depends on the the individual candidates and their backers.

[TheFrenchRazor]

76. Russia is actually a perfect example of this; Putin's corruption makes Trump's look like child's pla

child's play.

[jalan48]

80. Yep. Modern Oligarchs.

[n2doc]

20. They favor those policies, but not for 'them'

Bigotry and hate over all else. Promoted and intensified by continuous propaganda on radio and TV and the internet. And in churches.

[7962]

21. They say that because JFK cut tax rates and made a big speech about it,

which they still replay today.

[eniwetok]

74. the difference is the JFK tax cuts were not designed to lose money...

a simple comparison of revenue numbers after the JFk, Reagan, and Bush tax cuts will demonstrate that.

[dawg]

22. Before 1964, the Democratic Party offered them liberal economic policies ...

but was still willing to accommodate their racism & bigotry.

[Vinca]

23. The intelligence of the American people is vastly overrated.

Thus, people in Kentucky think their Obamacare isn't Obamacare so they want to get rid of it. Politics is a shallow game. If we had run Chewbacca Mom against Trump we probably would have won.

[Cosmocat]

34. Yep

In my involvement in and observation of politics since the start of the 90s, I have come to understand just how fucking stupid this country is, a point I have noted repeated over the last half decade here and people didn't grasp.

[HughBeaumont]

24. Maybe we should ask the people still trying to make the Democratic Party into "Republican Lite".

Maybe we should also stop with the "appeal to moderation" and make people understand that often times, their bumper sticker "solutions" are abject and constant FAILURES.

Oh, and that whole "modern Democrats are too liberal" . . . I just want to beat some ass whenever Republicans bring that steaming pile of horseshit nowadays, just as much as when they yap about "Big Government" (which really means "LIBRULS LIBRULS TAX AND SPENDOCRATS!!!&quot .

I always tend to point out that Modern American Government has relatively a handful of actual FDR progressives in contrast to the overwhelming amount of center-right to just flat-out batshit insane crank magnets we're putting in it's halls. Sorry, conservative, you have WAY more governmental representation than I do, or ever will at this point.

[superpatriotman]

25. Wedge Issues

On both sides prevent anything substantive from getting done.

[ebbie15644]

30. Republicans have a great marketing apparatus in FOX

it's 24 hours of "hate democrats" it offers no policy that republicans offer but you can turn it on at anytime of the day and find out why you should fear, yes fear, democrats

[tblue37]

32. Propaganda works, especially when people are not able to recognize that they are

being propagandized. Also, Americans simply vote for "their team" without knowing anything about what policies their elected officials push or how the government works.

Since they don't know how government works, they can easily be made to believe that the Democrats are to blame for what Republicans do. Such ignorance makes it that much easier to propagandize them.

[Chasstev365]

33. Democrats stand for everything, therefore they stand for nothing

The party has become afraid to fight for the traditional values of FDR, Truman, JFK, LBJ, & RFK.

By trying so hard not to offend, they stand for everything, even BS conservative ideas.

[spanone]

35. gerrymandering across the country. gutting the voting rights act of 1965.

russia hacking our voting system

voter ID laws.

they cheat.

[vlyons]

36. Because we keep voting for the wrong Dems

But the real question is why do people vote Republican?

[RedWedge]

38. Americans favor liberal policies FOR THEMSELVES. The issue comes when people who aren't like them

benefit from those policies as well.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

39. Because some people, cough , think other people are getting the benefits./nt

[OnionPatch]

40. My friends and I had this conversation.

We wondered if part of it isn't that, by nature, conservatives are more authoritarian and therefore more aggressive in pursuit of their goals. Liberal minded people are more egalitarian and, by nature, are not driven to control as much as the Cons. Ego-driven, the Cons are more likely to be constantly scheming and planning, hungry to gain more power and less likely to feel guilt when imposing their will on others through the use of dirty tricks and bullying.

I guess it's kind of like the saying "Nice guys never win."

[dumbcat]

42. Because the US of A is not a democracy

no matter how much we want it to be, or keep pretending it is.

The US of A is a Constitutional Republic, a Representative Democracy. What "wins" are the things our representatives want, not what the "people" want. And our representatives are of a different class.

This really should not be that puzzling.

[Rage4Bacon]

60. I agree with half your statement...

Show me any significant cases of where the representatives voted differently in the elections than their constituents... Besides a few outliers, it didn't happen.

As for being a republic vs democracy, indeed... this is the point. The federal government is there to perform functions for the states, not the total majority population. People forget the US is a collection of independent nations, not a single one. This is exactly why they instituted the electoral system instead of just taking a popular vote. People forgot their history.

[WhiteTara]

46. This goes back to 1976 and the 2 Santas theory

https://www.quora.com/topic/Two-Santa-Clause-Theory
The two santa clause theory was proposed in 1976 by Jude Wanniski. The summary is this: Democrats were winning government positions by always promising to spend on social benefits. The Republicans would lose by proposing to limit this spending, effectively turning themselves into the enemy of Santa Clause. The two Santa Clause theory was that the republicans needed to be Santa as well to win elected positions. They still wanted fiscal conservatism, but somehow needed to be Santa. The solution to this was to sell the public on the "gift" of lowering taxes.

This has set up a big game of chicken. Democrats promise spending, but get blocked on tax raises to fund it. Republicans promise tax cuts, but get blocked on spending cuts.

In theory, the Republicans would hope that the Democrats would blink first, curtail spending and then lose their own Santa Clause status.

http://capitalgainsandgames.com/blog/bruce-bartlett/1701/jude-wanniski-taxes-and-two-santa-theory

The only thing wrong with the U.S. economy is the failure of the Republican Party to play Santa Claus. The only thing wrong with President Ford is that he is still too much a Hoover Republican when what the country needs is a Coolidge Republican.

These statements, seemingly absurd, follow naturally from the Two-Santa Claus Theory of the political economy. Simply stated, the Two Santa Claus Theory is this: For the U.S. economy to be healthy and growing, there must be a division of labor between Democrats and Republicans; each must be a different kind of Santa Claus.

The Democrats, the party of income redistribution, are best suited for the role of Spending Santa Claus. The Republicans, traditionally the party of income growth, should be the Santa Claus of Tax Reduction. It has been the failure of the GOP to stick to this traditional role that has caused much of the nation’s economic misery. Only the shrewdness of the Democrats, who have kindly agreed to play both Santa Clauses during critical periods, has saved the nation from even greater misery.

snip

Either way, of course, they embrace the role of Scrooge, playing into the hands of the Democrats, who know the first rule of successful politics is Never Shoot Santa Claus. The political tension in the market place of ideas must be between tax reduction and spending increases, and as long as Republicans have insisted on balanced budgets, their influence as a party has shriveled, and budgets have been imbalanced.

[oberliner]

47. Because so many of those Americans are living in big cities

And in states like California and New York.

That's how HRC can win the popular vote by 3 million votes and still not win the election.

[myohmy2]

48. because...

...our champions and leaders are fundamentally corporate/capitalist, not Socialist...they are more worried about their stock portfolios and bank accounts than Progressive/Socialist policies and goals...

...where is our new Progressive/Socialist ideology and leaders that are current and relevant to everyone today that we all can embrace?...where are the new counter arguments and policies to the tired, old, capitalist lies and bullshit?...instead we have 1% millionaires and .1% billionaires that pretend to be us, that regularly screw us with lies and hypocrisy, all while maintaining and advancing the 1%s hidden agenda...

...there's no excuse for voting stupid and voting stupid should have its' punishment...there's no excuse being a 99%er and voting trump...but if you're desperate enough for meaningful change, you may do stupid things...

[kennetha]

49. Structural Impediments to Majority Rule

16% of the US population - mostly from Rural states, heavily Republican -- elects 50% of the US Senate.

Gerrymandered Districts for the House + Clustering of Urban populations means Republican control of House out of synch with popular support.

Excess of Federalism

Electoral College.

Excess of money in politics


All conspire against translation of the will of majority into policy.

[liberal N proud]

52. Two things...

1. Republicans have the media and therefore control the message.

2. Through gerrymandering and voter suppression and disfranchising, they have molded the electorate to their favor. All which the get support for by claiming voter fraud.

[Strelnikov_]

58. Pretty much it in a nutshell n/t

[Mosby]

54. a lot of the liberal base doesn't vote

Especially 18-29 year Olds and Hispanics, who are the fastest growing demo in the country.

Last election 90 million eligible adults didn't vote for example.

[Strelnikov_]

57. Dedicated propaganda networks, AM Hate Radio, Faux News, in addition to

a compliant 'mainstream' media, advancing the desired message of the entities that pay for their advertising (iow pay their bills).

[Calculating]

64. A combination of 4 things

1-Republican cheating such as gerrymandering and voter suppression.
2-Unpopular wedge issues which turn away potential liberal voters such as gun control. If Gallop suggests that only 30% of Americans favor an assault weapon ban, then maybe the Dem candidate shouldn't make gun control a major part of their platform.
3-A failure to embrace populism by establishment Democrats.
4-Low voter turnout. To put it simply. Young people need to get off their asses and vote more.

[eniwetok]

71. Antidemocratic Government DISCOURAGES Voting

After the presidential elections were now stolen from Gore and HRC... do you think this encourages voting? Or the opposite?

There are reasons for abysmal voter turnout in the US... elections don't offer enough choice, half the votes are tossed out in winner take all elections, elections can be meaningless if the EC steals victory from the winner... and the system is not responsive because small minorities can block all reform.

[Dems to Win]

66. The lexicon of the left alienates white people

Scream at poor whites about their white privilege, post pictures of black activists drinking white tears, write articles about the white entitlement of Bernie supporters, mock the concerns of white people as mere white people's problems, and if any white person complains about it, point fingers and laugh at their white fragility.

I just can't imagine why this wasn't a winning election strategy.

[Generator]

67. Propaganda and fear

Elections not run fairly. Gerrymandering. Fear did it for awhile TERRORISM is all you hear on media-and this year endless propaganda "both equally disliked" (there is no equivalence to a rational dislike of Trump and irrational hatred of Clinton-NONE-they are different things but the media made them the same) didn't know Clinton ran a pedophile ring did you? My teen had heard this rumor I didn't until after the election.

People consistently poll for liberal values then government does the opposite. Then they vote Republicon out of fear and ignorance. They are so dumb they don't realize medicare and Obama care are something that who they voted for his going to take away from them or they think Clinton murders people. What can you do with that level of ignorance?

At this point only a great depression brought to you by the Republicons will snap people out of their delusion. Republicons must be defeated utterly like Nazi's or nothing will get better.

[libtodeath]

68. Because white rural assholes only like progressive policies as long as they dont benefit POC.

[unitedwethrive]

69. Because no one wants to say the truth - the majority of Americans are gullible and ignorant.

Many comments on this thread mentioned how 'propaganda' and fake news was used to sway people. The bottom line is that an uneducated electorate is a ripe target for such maneuvers. The repubs have realized this for quite a while now. While no politician would say as much, it is clear that you can't assume people are smart and expect they will make the best choices for themselves and the country.

[eniwetok]

70. WE LOSE BECAUSE THE SYSTEM IS ANTIDEMOCRATIC... and Dems need to wake up to this fact.

It's one thing to lose an election fair and square. It's quite another when elections are STOLEN from the election winner by an mindless, antidemocratic vote rigging system called the EC.

It's one thing to have one person one vote, and all votes weigh the same in terms of representation. It's quite another when one citizen's vote is 70x heavier than another just because they live in WY instead of CA... and 18% of the US population gets 52% of the seats in the Senate.

Both of these antidemocratic vote rigging schemes are ILLEGAL on the state and municiple levels.

[TheFrenchRazor]

79. precisely, but most dems won't even TRY to change these things. nt

[eniwetok]

87. In this regard the Democratic Party is very conservative

Instead of Dems trying to flesh out what morally legitimate government is... and developing true democratic values, Dems have resigned themselves to working within the straight jacket... instead of loosening or cutting the straps.

[many a good man]

72. Policies? What does policy have to do with politics??

I don't recall the media ever talking about policies during this last campaign.

[agincourt]

73. Don't have the loyal base

that votes in every election. People who are liberal are more humanistic and the media cesspool that our elections have become turn off the more advanced thinkers. I also think a coalition of parties against the GOP would be more effective than one.

[blue cat]

77. Because some people

Go for the bullies.

[redstatebluegirl]

78. They have figured out that winning starts in the local and state elections.

They have quietly and not so quietly, overtaken many state legislatures, governors, mayors and even school boards, this is how they have taken the message away from us. We want to start at the top. Two places you start at the top, digging a post hole and painting a barn.

We need to work hard on state and local elections. That is where your talent comes from to run for the House, the Senate and President in sane years. We don't have much in the bull pen younger than 70. It would also be easier to get progressives into the pipeline.

We need to change how we think. I agree with a young friend of mine, we may be looking at 4 parties in 2020, not two.

[unblock]

81. We don't vote for policies. We vote for people.

And the right wing propaganda very effectively convinces people to vote for republican jerks because for some reason it's better to vote for the guy you'd like to have a beer with who doesn't drink beer than someone who would actually make a good president.

[BainsBane]

82. Because people don't vote based on policy

In fact, as this election showed they will vote against policies they favor because of cultural affinity and resentment. There is a morning consult survey of Trump voters showing they hold varying positions on any number of policies but agreed on race.

[JI7]

85. because many people are also anti gay racist sexist etc

[rumdude]

86. Because of ivory-tower mealy-mouthed identity politics - nt