Yemen raid was approved over dinner

[suffragette]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/feb/02/trump-approved-yemen-raid-five-days-after-inauguration

The mission was approved over dinner five days after the presidential inauguration by Trump and his closest advisers, including his son-in-law Jared Kushner and his special adviser and former Breitbart executive Stephen Bannon, as well as defence secretary General Jim Mattis.

~~~

The special forces, apparently lacking full intelligence, were confronted by heavily-fortified positions, including landmines, and faced heavy gunfire from buildings all around during the 50-minute firefight. One of the US planes sent in to help had to be left behind and was deliberately destroyed.

US military officials told Reuters that Trump approved his first covert counterterrorism operation without sufficient intelligence, ground support or adequate backup preparations.

The mission had been prepared under the Obama administration but it had not been approved.

[riversedge]

1. Congress needs to investigate this mess.

[riversedge]

2. I thought Gen Mattis was supposed to be the smart one. ha ha

[atreides1]

3. Suppose to be!!!

When he got picked for SecDef, Marines, both current and former were singing his praises!!!

Mattis is nothing more then a prop, you'd get better results from Olaf the Snowman!!!

[suffragette]

8. Looks like he is going along with 'strong man' posturing. And people are dying because of it.

[Proud Liberal Dem]

9. Yes

But Presidents and other particulars are supposed to review all of the information, details, etc. and make sure everything is adequately prepared before approving it and sending our military into a situation, correct? It's impossible to hypothesize about how things might have gone differently but the people actually going into these at least deserve their CIC and his advisers ensuring that the operation is thoroughly reviewed and prepped before launching.

[Lurks Often]

15. Incorrect

any reviews are done at a much lower level by military professionals with training and experience in these sorts of operations

Do you really think any President and Cabinet members have hours every day to review the various details of every single military operation going on in the Middle East.

To put a different way, do you think the CEO of Ford has the time or training to oversee the autoworkers assembling a car or the accountants doing the books or the HR dept doing whatever it is HR people do?

[tableturner]

31. I think you are incorrect!

The article said the following:

"US military officials told Reuters that Trump approved his first covert counterterrorism operation without sufficient intelligence, ground support or adequate backup preparations."

It is an absolute fact that Presidents look at intelligence before commencing a military action in which US troops and civilians in the area under attack may die. To say otherwise is absurd. Do you think competent presidents just order attacks blindly? They should also, in concert with subordinates, at least check to make sure there is enough ground support and backup preparations, especially when US troops could die in an operation.

Referencing your earlier post, which said in part:

"Presidents don't involve themselves with the gathering of intelligence, coordinating ground support or planning backup preparations."

The article did not say the problem was that the president did not "involve himself with gathering intelligence, coordinating ground support or planning backup preparations." It simply said that the attack happened "without sufficient intelligence, ground support, or adequate backup preparations." Being sure of that is part of a president's job!

And this is not about Ford manufacturing cars or worrying about accounting or HR policies. IT'S A MILITARY OPERATION, AND PEOPLE DIE DURING MILITARY OPERATIONS!

[suffragette]

11. Presidents can and should raise questions about what s known and if all are in agreement

Or whether there is disagreement about possible actions.

[Lurks Often]

14. Only in a very general sense

the most any President is likely to ask is if the objective of the operation is necessary, if the risks are acceptable and at a high level what the outcome might be if the operation fails.

No President has time to get into every detail of an operation like this.

To put a different way, do you think the CEO of Ford has the time or training to oversee the autoworkers assembling a car or the accountants doing the books or the HR dept doing whatever it is HR people do?

[suffragette]

16. He wanted a 'strong man' operation and he got one. Just as he is projecting a 'strong man'

attitude toward the leaders of Mexico and Australia.

I will not absolve him of making bad decisions, especially when this report indicates there is likely some dissension in the ranks.

[Lurks Often]

18. I'm curious

Did you also automatically believe the fake story about the Man who claimed mom died in Iraq after Trump's ban?

[suffragette]

29. Had not seen it. Why do you keep bringing it up? Seems like a change of subject.

[Kingofalldems]

37. Wow. Exact same post in another thread.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=8584684

Must be difficult defending Trump, Lurks Often.

[BannonsLiver]

19. +1

I won't either. It's completely plausible that this lout made a decision to approve the raid without knowing much or really anything of substance about it at all. This is a man with exactly zero intellectual curiosity which I have no doubt extends to the job he's supposed to be doing. His decision making skills are also highly questionable. Whether or not he's the guy that gathered the intelligence, or whatever other nonsense is thrown out there, the buck stops with him.

PERIOD!

[Separation]

39. Heres the problem

Trump still hasn't even filled his cabinet. Security analysts are leaving in droves. So at the moment, he is getting his advice from his son in law and Bannon the yes man. There are filters currently missing before this type of operation is given a go ahead. Then, after the mission was given the green light, it should have been aborted once they figured out the jig was up and they knew that they were coming. The last part can't be laid on Trump's feet, but when it comes down to it. The bucks stops here.

[FreeStateDemocrat]

40. Obamas team worked for months on a Syria plan. Trumps team swiftly tossed it.

To the incoming Trump administration, President Obama’s plan to take Raqqa from ISIS was so incremental and risk-averse that it was almost certain to fail. “We found huge gaps in it,” said a senior Trump administration official. “It was poor staff work.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/regional/?cache=false

[jmg257]

17. Right - trump is supposed to question the level of intelligence on an operation planned for months?

BY J-SOC? Special Forces didn't have enough intelligence??

WTF?!?

He better shake up J-SOC then.

WASHINGTON — Just five days after taking office, over dinner with his newly installed secretary of defense and the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, President Trump was presented with the first of what will be many life-or-death decisions: whether to approve a commando raid that risked the lives of American Special Operations forces and foreign civilians alike.

President Barack Obama’s national security aides had reviewed the plans for a risky attack on a small, heavily guarded brick home of a senior Qaeda collaborator in a mountainous village in a remote part of central Yemen. But Mr. Obama did not act because the Pentagon wanted to launch the attack on a moonless night and the next one would come after his term had ended.

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/02/01/world/middleeast/donald-trump-yemen-commando-raid-questions.html

[Blue_Adept]

20. The buck stops here

He signed off on it, responsibility goes there.

[Lurks Often]

21. Does that apply to every President every single time or are there exceptions?

[Caliman73]

23. Yes. It applies to every president in every situation. No exceptions.

We can talk about President Obama's failures regarding Syria. We can talk about Bush going into Iraq knowing there weren't WMD's. Of Clinton sending US forces into Mogadishu. Right now it is Trump, a man who is known to be impulsive, not reading, and not wanting to be involved in the aspects of the Presidency that have been tradition.

Why are you so dead set on defending him? Explain yourself.

[Lurks Often]

26. I'm curious

Did you also automatically believe the fake story about the Man who claimed mom died in Iraq after Trump's ban?

[brush]

28. Stop changing the subject. Defend yourself as to why you're defending a trump screw up.

[BannonsLiver]

33. interesting isn't it?

[brush]

35. Right. This is why I love DU. You have to come prepared or you'll get challenged.

[Blue_Adept]

30. whoa whoa whoa there, partner

[img][/img]

[Caliman73]

32. Never read it. Not interested in shifting the focus of this discussion

I answered your question. Your turn. Explain yourself. You made the claim. It is on you to explain.

[Caliman73]

36. I am still waiting for your response to my question.

I know I will probably not get an answer, since it appears that your primary tactic on this page has been to call out "fake news" and deflect questions regarding Trump and why you are defending him.

[Cha]

42. Why are you defending the stupidity of trump? President Obama DIDN'T

Approve of this and trump DID.

[spanone]

5. in other words, these incompetents blew it.

[suffragette]

12. In between bites of dinner. Is this now the main way they gain a meeting with him?

[okieinpain]

7. if people had not died i would laugh my ass off.

sadly this is only the beginning.

[Mr. Ected]

10. Less than a week into his "presidency", and Trump already has had his Benghazi Moment

Can't wait for FOX News to publicize the hell out of this daily for the next 4 years.

LOL.

[Cha]

43. And, msnbc and cnn!

yeah right

[bigtree]

13. why was Kushner there?

[jmg257]

22. Here's some more info

The military officials who spoke to Reuters on condition of anonymity said "a brutal firefight" killed Owens and at least 15 Yemeni women and children. One of the dead was the 8-year-old daughter of Anwar al-Awlaki, a militant killed by a 2011 U.S. drone strike
...
One of the three U.S. officials said on-the-ground surveillance of the compound was “minimal, at best.”
“The decision was made ... to leave it to the incoming administration, partly in the hope that more and better intelligence could be collected,” that official said.

...
The Pentagon directed queries about the officials' characterization of the raid to U.S. Central Command, which pointed only to its statement on Wednesday.

"CENTCOM asks for operations we believe have a good chance for success and when we ask for authorization we certainly believe there is a chance of successful operations based on our planning," CENTCOM spokesman Colonel John Thomas said.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-commando-idUSKBN15G5RX


Can't wait to find out who these "3 military officials" were...they sound very much in the loop/know.

[Demsrule86]

24. Stupid and clueless, all of them.

An American is dead because the GOP chose and elected (by cheating) a complete idiot as president...who hired other idiots...I hope they are haunted by the civilians and the American soldier they killed with their stupidity.

[jmg257]

25. You'd think the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff would know something about military ops.

And that J-SOC/Special Forces could actually plan them with enough intelligence.

[Demsrule86]

44. Trump does not listen to anyone...he is a disaster as I expected.

I grew up in Connecticut...we all know about Trump ...he is a loser and couldn't even get a bank loan in New York which is why he went to Atlanta and eventually turned to the Russians. My brother is an independent but leans right...no idea why. In all other respects, he is a great guy. This year though, there was no question, he voted for Hillary. He worked with Trump on some business in New York and hates him...says he is worse than what has been said about him...worse. Trump bankrupted some of my Dad's friends too. No one who climbs into business (or bed) fares well with this guy.

[jmg257]

46. Sheesh - thanks - that is good stuff to be aware of...seems like a common theme dealing with him. nt

[joshcryer]

45. Sure, but they are human and can be led astray by impulse.

Being told by the new President to go ahead with a mission that has been in the planning stages for awhile could result in a narrow view of things. Maybe if the President reassessed the situation rather than agreeing to do it over dinner that behavior would've trickled down the chain of command and new and important intelligence would've been gathered.

At the bare minimum it would've left room for a reassessment of the plan.

Instead it was ad hoc and without introspection, imo.

[jmg257]

47. Good points - instead of a possible rush to seem tough, make sure everything is being considered.

[HoneyBadger]

48. 2 Americans are dead

The 8 year old girl is just as American as the Seal

[Demsrule86]

49. I am aware of that... was thinking American serviceman...but the point remainds the same.

And for the record. I am against killing civilians of any nationality...thus since civilian casualties are inevitable in war...we should have no more wars...and Trump may very well use nukes in the fight against 'terrorism'...nothing is to evil for this guy.

[LisaM]

27. You couldn't give me enough wine to be at that dinner.

Gawd.

[louis-t]

34. B-b-b-ut drumpie knows more than the generals!1!1!

[ffr]

38. +1 And seeing it from his eyes, I'm surprised he hasn't said it out loud yet.

tRump's first raid on Al Qaeda was a disaster. A COMPLETE AND TOTAL DISASTER. A failure.

We had a Navy Seal KIA, an 8 y.o. girl dead, four more injured, and lost a $72 million V-22 Osprey, in his first boots-on-the-ground raid.

[themaguffin]

41. Dumb ass Donald just wanted to show off and now people are dead.