So, let me get this straight (re: the raid)

[stevenleser]

[spanone]

1. Benghazi....

2 weeks in....imagine if the tables turned and this occurred on Hillary's watch?

[Grassy Knoll]

2. You Would Be Able To See Fox News Explode From Jupiter.

[SunSeeker]

13. LOL

[SticksnStones]

42. Secretary Clinton would have never ordered such an ill planned event

She would never have asked that of the SEALs

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

3. Quite a few more than those two were killed

Mostly non-combatants.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/what-happened-the-night-a-us-commando-was-killed-in-combat-the-first-such-death-of-trumps-presidency/ar-AAmCY4B?li=BBnb7Kz&ocid=edgsp

[gratuitous]

4. Hey, at least it didn't cut into President Trump's "me" time

Can you imagine the toll it would have taken on the President if he had been in the Situation Room while this fiasco went down? Won't someone please think of the President and his feelings?

[Cha]

15. blotus and his "me time"..

[trixie2]

21. That reminds me of the now famous picture of Obama and Clinton

The looks on their faces show the reality of what happens and should reflect the responsibility of actions.

[DURHAM D]

5. But, but, but OBAMA planned it. nt

[world wide wally]

6. Maybe Chaffetz?

[stevenleser]

8. "The buck stops here". If the reports are correct, that mission should not have been ordered.

[PdxSean]

9. Interesting.

Who do you think should be held accountable when Trump authorizes a military raid without adequate intelligence?

[rufus dog]

16. I agree with Steven - the CIC always should take responsibility

Of bigger concern, Team tRump likely didn't learn anything.

[SunSeeker]

20. Mattis recommended the raid for political reasons.

A touch of ODS mixed with a hack's desire to make Trump look like a hero and show he was better than Obama.

After two months of military preparation increasingly focused on the opportunity to capture al-Rimi, Trump was told by Defense Secretary James Mattis and the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff that his capture would be a "game changer," according to a senior White House official with direct knowledge of the discussions.

In making their case, they told Trump that they doubted that the Obama administration would have been bold enough to try it, this official said.

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/yemen-raid-had-secret-target-al-qaeda-leader-qassim-al-n717616

[Sunlei]

10. about 30 died. trump and his closest admin, people like brother in law, bannon killed these people

Republicans let this happen.

[grantcart]

11. Mattis isn't the genius we thought he was.

On the upside we don't have to worry about the POTUS getting weary from winning all the time.

[Blue_true]

34. Mattis was the guy that left a group of Special Forces

Troops on their own, refusing to try to rescue them with Marine extractors. The Air Force had to send an extraction team from much farther away to rescue the troops, but by then, one had died from injuries.

[SunSeeker]

12. Is anyone tired of winning yet?

[ffr]

14. K&R

tRump is a TOTAL DISASTER. A bungler of king bunglers. A champion of all that's ignorant and wrong with politics today. And people are now dying because of it.

[msanthrope]

17. Steve.....this was supposed to be a spectacular capture raid

that would have justified reopening a black site.....after all, you can't keep AQ #3 in lower Manhattan.

Trump wanted to show up Obama's Bin Laden raid.....you know, the one that took place right after Trump got his ass handed to him at nerdprom.

This was pure ego, nothing else.

[zentrum]

18. Yup, pure ego.nt

[PoliticAverse]

19. Sadly the answer is actually yes....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Eagle_Claw

[SunSeeker]

23. That was an aborted mission, so not comparable.

What made it such a disaster was the loss of life in the aircraft collision as they attempted to leave, and the resulting political fallout. That tragedy was basically an air accident, not a poorly executed mission. No women and children were killed and it was not a poorly vetted and poorly executed mission that was done to show up a prior president, like the Yemen raid was.

After two months of military preparation increasingly focused on the opportunity to capture al-Rimi, Trump was told by Defense Secretary James Mattis and the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff that his capture would be a "game changer," according to a senior White House official with direct knowledge of the discussions.

In making their case, they told Trump that they doubted that the Obama administration would have been bold enough to try it, this official said.

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/yemen-raid-had-secret-target-al-qaeda-leader-qassim-al-n717616

[PoliticAverse]

25. It was a poorly planned and excuted mission which is why it had to be aborted. n/t

[SunSeeker]

26. It was never executed.

Mechanical failure of the aircraft led to the decision to abort, as your link notes. Carter got a bad rap on that.

[PoliticAverse]

27. It was aborted during execution of the mission. Things went so badly during execution that it was

aborted.

The deaths occurred because the mission was executed and failed.

[Blue_true]

35. You are wrong. The mission required a specific number

Of helicopters. It started with something like one more than was needed. A copter failed and became inoperable, the mission was to continue after the remaining copters were refueled, that is when a copter's rotor hit the refueling plane and both exploded into flames, at that point the mission was aborted.

[SunSeeker]

40. I'm not wrong. As you just admitted, the mission was aborted. nt

[uponit7771]

41. Aborted Mission ! failed mission, why use pretzel logic here?

[stevenleser]

37. Agreed. Fascinating that this person thinks the two are remotely comparable. nt

[stevenleser]

33. Not even remotely comparable. First off, we didn't kill any children in Desert One.

2nd off, a hostage situation is an emergency/crisis situation. I know this one went on for a long time but you have no idea how the hostages are being treated or if they will be shot the next day. It's an emergency situation.

There was no reason to order the raid in Yemen that day. It could have stood another several days or weeks to plan. There was no emergency there causing a rushed operation.

Thirdly, if you talk to people who were actually on the ground during Desert One, and I had the opportunity to do that, they will tell you that the mission was thoughtfully conceived. As far as backup goes, eight helicopters were sent when it was indicated that only four or five were needed. There is a level beyond which you can't plan or you can't deem the planning insufficient. The battlefield makes very unusual things happen sometimes and you cannot account for everything. There is the famous saying in the military, no battle plan survives contact with the enemy. You plan as well as you can and then train the troops to improvise where necessary.

What Drumpf/Bannon/Flynn did here is simply fail to plan at all. That is not comperable to a plan that failed due to an unfortunate and unforseeable series of events.

[haele]

38. I've spoken with a Marine who was involved with Desert One.

"M" and several other units were alreadywaiting to get the signal the first group of 'choppers were on their way, and then they were supposed to start a mis-direction attack to draw attention away from the actual units that were going to go into the compound and rescue the hostages.
The three additional helicopters that started the explosions were apparently sent on site too soon due to the ATC at the base pushing stage 3 deployment out of sequence; they were supposed to pick up "M's" unit and the other Marine units once the hostages were gone.

The plan itself was sound. It was a over-excited Captain who messed the plan up by jumping the gun.

Now, for Yeman..., yeah - they were waiting for a moonless night. Or it was Obama's Fault for not making a big fuss about how utterly stupid and lacking in planning this "tactical strike" was when he refused to sign off on it.

Or maybe, a bunch of gun-ho Colonels and Just-got-my-Star Oafkeeper types thought they could make an easy statement for their fearless Leader and his crusade against the Muslims that aren't our friends, and didn't think it though much past "they're just a bunch of tribal thugs the Saudis have been beating up on for the past two years and we've got highly trained Special Forces that are trained for this".

Haele

[stevenleser]

39. Yep, I heard similar information from the USAF Combat Controller I spoke with.

He had been on the ground in Iran at Desert One. In response to my queries casting doubt on the mission, he was adamant that the mission was well planned and had a high chance of success. A mission rated as having an 80% chance of success has a 20% chance of failure if just the right combination of things go wrong.

Knowing who those guys were and seeing that my questions were annoying him I didn't argue the point. It's not wise as a slick sleeved Basic Trainee, that's what I was at the time at Lackland AFB at the Chaparral when I ran into the guy, to pointedly question a special ops NCO. Besides, he was there and was trained to know whether something was well planned or not.

[rpannier]

22. Ben-Ghazi

E-mails
File cabinets
Shiny Keys
Bowling Green
Election Fraud

[Blue_true]

36. You forgot Wall Street speeches and Fracking.

No need to point out that Trump packed in Wall Streeters and is trying to make the environment a sewer.

[Hekate]

24. Kick

[underthematrix]

28. This is how Generals Mattis and Dunford manipulated Trump

into going forward with operation http://www.nbc.com/nightly-news/video/nbc-nightly-news-feb-6-2017/3462561

[Quixote1818]

29. Dems need to play hard ball. When does the first investigation start? nt

[yardwork]

30. Since we gave the Republicans control of Congress, there will be no hearings.

The Democrats don't have the authority to order hearings. Good job, America.

[Tanuki]

31. Among other questions, I hope they ask why Trump was chatting on the phone with Putin

and Mattis was partying with the in-crowd at the Alfalfa Dinner while this fiasco was unfolding.

[bearssoapbox]

32. Is this really a surprise?

They don't care how many poor brown people they kill in America. Why should they care about the ones in other countries?

And troops are just so much sacrificial 'cannon fodder' to make 'merica GREAT again.