More and more people are saying it...election fraud...machine tampering fraud...yep AND down ballot

[LaydeeBug]

and I mean Trump Chumps.

I live among these people...in a very red section of a very blue state. As more and more people are starting to say so, yesterday's news of popular vote loser and proud Russian Puppet President Trump gutting the only agency to protect us from it, and there is little doubt.

This is not normal.

This election was STOLEN. Yes, I mean voting equipment.

DON'T LET THEM GASLIGHT YOU

DON'T LET THEM FRAME THE NARRATIVE

From a friend's wall, names have been changed because I said so:

CJ: I'll just say it: I believe that the "data that turned the world upside down" is altered data of tabulated votes from about 10-15 precincts in the rust belt. I think treating this or looking at this like it's a legitimate election is insane.
Unlike · Reply · 2 · Yesterday at 9:23am

Respondent #2: wait. are you saying that this election was legit stolen?
Like · Reply · 20 hrs


CJ: Yes. I believe that the number of people who actually voted for Trump and the number of votes that Trump received are not within a reasonable level of parity. And that Trump is brilliant at one thing: getting liberals to argue his case for him before he even needs to make it. In particular, he gets liberals to constantly argue that there cannot possibly be voter fraud or election rigging and tampering, when he is the biggest perpetrator of it.

I believe this because it is a more likely scenario than every pollster getting it wrong. It's a more likely scenario than having what, 2 million people show up at protests in the dead middle of winter? For every person who showed up at a protest, how many were at home? You and I both know the ratios on that? Getting someone to go to a protest is how many times harder than getting them to vote? 10x? 50x? The numbers don't add up. To believe otherwise is to believe that statistical modeling just straight up doesn't work, a whole bunch of people showed up to a set of protests (twice this week) that didn't actually vote, and that all of the election tampering claims from the previous administration are lies.

[femmocrat]

1. And then there is this:

http://www.federaltimes.com/articles/house-committee-eliminates-federal-election-assistance-commission

A House committee voted Tuesday to eliminate an independent election commission charged with helping states improve their voting systems as President Trump erroneously claims widespread voter fraud cost him the popular vote.

The party-line vote to terminate the Election Assistance Commission came less than two days after Trump vowed to set up a White House commission helmed by Vice President Mike Pence to pursue his accusations of election fraud.

More at above link.

[LaydeeBug]

4. Yep... the attitude is shifting from "No way was it stolen" to "Russia did us a favor"

and it sounds like they are two sides of the same coin, but it ISN'T:

Liberals and progressives are saying more and more that this was stolen (as referenced in the conversation above) and less and less conservatives are defending it.

[Achilleaze]

18. Move along. Nothing to see here.

Relax, the IKGOP Axis, Inc. is in total control, and will take care of everything for you.

[Botany]

2. The #s and facts don't lie

This election was stolen on many levels. Including house and senate races.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2017/01/24/russians-suspected-hacking-wisconsin-dems/97023222/

[coco22]

3. Correct..

I know plenty of people who couldn't march due to disability or other circumstances.

[BlueCaliDem]

5. I've believed this from the start, but to say so was shot down pretty quickly. However, since

I simply can't accept that ALL pollsters were wrong and that Republican dominated States believe in "fair and free" elections, I maintain that this election was stolen in every which way possible--including tampering with the vote count.

Trumpsters already have buyer's remorse. Republicans we know who voted for Trump (because he's a businessman and they just don't understand that being a businessman is not the same as governing as president) only heard about Russia's interference after the elections and are now grabbing their hair in despair. Of course they won't say this up front and in public, but when they believe you're a Republican, they admit this in private.

These Trumpsters believe that hubby is a Republican (wears suits and ties and has that 'Republican look'), and they believe my son is a Republican because he plays that part, and they've shown their despair and anxiety in private. In public, they defend Trump with all the zeal of a dismissive fanatic.

[LaydeeBug]

11. I noticed how quickly it was shot down...but where are they now?

There were *VEHEMENT* dismissals of a stolen election..I dare even say bully

I notice I don't see them much now...

[BlueCaliDem]

32. You know what? I wonder about that same thing.

Where have all those vehement naysayers gone? Hm...

[LaydeeBug]

37. and they were a FORCE, like coordinating with each other

But of course, du was certainly too small a venture for hackers to even bother with...nothing to see here.


And just for the record, I think they were just trying to make sure the electors went through with it.

[dchill]

14. Agree 100%.

It's not the first time, either. Or the second.

[triron]

31. And the exit polls were 'wrong'

supposedly. See Ron Baiman's analysis.

http://www.cpegonline.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/Unexplained-Patterns-in-2016-and-Earlier-U.S.-Elections.pdf

[mythology]

44. The national polls weren't wrong

In fact they were closer than in 2012, it just happens that the 1 to 2 point difference went in toward Trump rather than the 3 point difference going toward Obama.

Clinton dropped in the national polls after the October Comey letter. Before that she was up by 6 or so points.

It is a fantasy that the voting itself was hacked. There is absolutely no evidence for it. In fact in Wisconsin where some counties did a hand recount and others did a machine recount, there was no statistically significant difference in the votes. I wish people weren't so eager to believe conspiracy theories without proof just because they really really want to believe them.

The recount revealed a yawn-inducing shift in the presidential election results — President-elect Donald Trump extended his lead over Democrat Hillary Clinton by 131 votes and total votes increased by about 400 out of nearly 3 million cast. Recount proponents had raised concerns about Russia possibly tampering with election results, but the recount found no evidence to support such claims.

http://host.madison.com/wsj/news/local/govt-and-politics/recount-found-thousands-of-errors-but-no-major-flaws-in/article_4ad0fe2a-40d8-5cce-8d84-f3e33469c8f1.html

The errors are able to be explained by user error, both writing in a candidate and marking the bubble for example. The people pawning these silly conspiracy theories have a responsibility to actually provide some sort of evidence. They don't, because they can't.

[world wide wally]

6. Is there a bill that could be passed to make Pence's investigation impossible if this Election

Assistance Commission is eliminated?
Then Trump would be forced to veto it.

[BlueCaliDem]

33. VERY interesting analysis! This is why Republicans are so bold and brash, doing whatever the hell

they please despite national outrage and marching in the streets. I'm certain they laugh behind the scenes at it all since they know they've got their people in the right places 'counting' the votes in their favor. This wasn't the case twenty years ago. Twenty years ago, Republicans were terrified of being voted out if they came across too racist and nasty. Now? Now they do whatever the hell they please, even shutting down Senator Warren when she merely wanted to read Coretta Scott's words in the DELIBERATIVE BODY of Congress, and know they won't suffer losses in 2018 or beyond because THEY KNOW NO MATTER WHAT THEY'LL WIN EACH AND EVERY ELECTION.

Republicans and pro-Republican billionaires have effectively rigged our elections, and if we don't change that, we'll be at their mercy every two years.

[ElementaryPenguin]

7. Agreed, LB. Obama didn't become the first to use the hot line with Russia...

Because he thought the Russians COULDN'T alter the vote totals!! What do people think he was afraid of on the eve of the election?? Another Hillary email out of wikileaks? Obviously, he believed Putin could hack the vote results - and warned him as strongly as possible - short of promising WWIII. Putin went ahead and did it anyway. What could Obama do at that point? Start launching nuclear weapons? Tell the American people point blank that Putin defied our warning - and basically just appointed our President? How would that be received? We don't have the procedures in place nationally to verify the results of these national elections. Whomever is hastily declared the apparent President-elect on election night - that's practically who we're stuck with. It's asinine - and it could cost us our democracy if we allow the orange menace to have his way (which we WON'T)!

[Rene]

8. i believe the election was stolen...as they have been since 1999...by switching servers/programs

I support scheduling batch jobs on 1000+ distributed servers. Applications are built with primary and secondary servers defined. It's extremely easy to switch servers and have an alternative program on the secondary server that's flipping votes as programmed by certain individuals. That's what happened with 1999 voting in a certain Secretary of State's computer processing site.....was switched to another state at 10pm...and switched back at 1030 with votes for Gore/Bush reversed. Someone watching their monitors would not even know the switch of servers happened behind the scenes.
Need access to logs from the (official) primary servers to show the switch to different url's.

[ElementaryPenguin]

9. Yes - Volusia County in 2000

The "Volusia Error" - the Hursti Hack! (found in wikipedia)

George H.W. Bush was the last Republican to legitimately win a Presidential election. They've been losing for nearly 30 years - but continue to steal power!!!

[anarch]

24. without a clear paper trail, it's impossible to prove

Also, it requires cooperation/collusion at a pretty high level to pull it off.

Such as, for instance, one of the two major political parties in a nation colluding with a hostile foreign entity in order to advance their own agenda.

No way would any of this be possible if a significant percentage of the voting population wasn't completely disengaged and apathetic (this is also engineered at a very high level).

So, good job, forces of evil!


But it won't last....

[bdamomma]

10. K&R

[NRaleighLiberal]

12. Yes it was stolen. So nothing else matters - not the "Hillary didn't run an appropriate campaign"

not any excuse that we see so often. The fact that this election was stolen means no arguments or reasons hold water at all.

Hillary ran a great campaign - she should be president. Period.

[LaydeeBug]

36. exactly. and since that g-d fix was in...they just would have stolen it a different

way from ANY other candidate.

[TheFrenchRazor]

41. correct; we need all paper ballots, HAND-COUNTED, all the time. nt

[LaydeeBug]

48. Welcome to DU and YES!!! THIS!!! nt

[keepthemhonestO]

13. yep I have been saying

it too from the very beginning. TDMSresearch.com

[UCmeNdc]

15. The GOP leadership knows the voting machines are vulnerable to manipulation. Russia was in on it.

That is why no one is asking the hard questions to Trump and company. Who were those Russian spies Roger Stone talked to and contacted before the election? Mmmmmmmm?

[mopinko]

16. i think it is starting. my own trumpkin is melting.

he's one of those-went so far left he came out the other side.
trying to mouth the talking points, but looking green around the gills.

[ymetca]

17. What's the solution?

Dems probably should have agreed that voter fraud was massive and needs to be investigated immediately. Appoint a Special Prosecutor. Ask for people all over the country to provide examples. Remind people that millions in whistle-blower $$ was available, etc.. Then we'd see all the Repubs demanding that such investigation never take place. Watch as the Repubs all rally around "Oh, well what we need is just crosscheck everywhere". The lyin' bastards would have at least been called out on their B.S., and the crosscheck scam would finally get the scrutiny it deserves in the public media sphere.

[TheFrenchRazor]

42. the solution is all paper ballots, all hand-counted, all the time. it's been done for centuries,

it can certainly be done again.

[jmg257]

19. If its true, hopefully they'll figure it out before 2020, or 2018 even.

[malaise]

20. I saw it coming when Groper Don the Con started the rigging discussion

History will absolve me

[chimpymustgo]

56. Yes, malaise - and DU going down on election afternoon? Was this investigated?

I became nearly physically ill after I saw that video.

I am so relieved other people KNOW this. I doubt it could ever be proved. But quite a few people were in on it.

[malaise]

61. Truth will out

Wait for the tearing apart among ReTHUGs. Someone will spill the beans

[Valhallakey]

21. So get on board Trump/Pence investigation and broaden it

To include the voting machines and the potential to alter vote totals, polling places (100s in conservative areas, 3 in liberal areas), voter id impact, and if we are going to have to live with these requirements then we need a system to get people ids free of charge and easily accessible etc... Shumer should say "We agree, we need to look into voter fraud (I think we are pretty sure not much will be found), vote tampering, voter suppression... ". Democrats are ready to work with the Whitehouse on a comprehensive review of the whole election process.

[ElementaryPenguin]

22. Good plan.

[Eyeball_Kid]

29. Are you kidding? The GOP won't investigate with Dems. They don't want to give up their gig.

It won't ever happen. The 2018 election has to go 65% Dems across the board in order for the Dems to take control of Congress BECAUSE of election fraud. Anything less than 65%, IMO, will be ripe for more election fraud and more phony GOP control.

It HAS to be a blowout.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

23. Republicans just voted to dismantle the one govt organization overseeing election machines.

We need paper ballots that are machine readable and human readable so that humans can count them AND tabulate them independently of software.

[Ligyron]

26. and this act should be on the front page of every newspaper

and the lead story on TV news programs, but...

[LaydeeBug]

25. I am really, really shocked at how many on here agree too...remember how, just after

the coup, it was like something that would get locked right away.

Or a chorus of trojans would begin saying "prove it" or, the perennial favorite, "So what, we do it too"

I guess they're drinking Moscow Mules right now

[Lonestarblue]

27. Next steps?

I've believed from the beginning that Republicans committed election fraud to steal the election. But at this point, what can we actually do about it? Anything investigated by Pence will be a complete waste of time. If programs were changed to switch votes, then some programmer had to do that. Could a sharp investigative journalist find that person (or persons)? We need another Watergate level investigation.

[brooklynite]

28. I met with two State Party chairs this week: the machines weren't rigged

I have avery clear idea of WHY we lost , which I'll write up when I get a free 10 minutes.

[triron]

39. Pretty flimsy anecdotal evidence

to make that sweeping claim

[brooklynite]

43. As opposed to hard evidence of a massive conspiracy to rig THOUSANDS of machines?

The key is that Party and election officials know what, broadly, the turnout and result should be.

Now, I suppose it would be nice to believe that we had the right message (we didn't) and the right campaign strategy (we didn't) and the only reason we lost was that the other side cheated (beyond the usual stuff). Then we wouldn't have to change anything for next time.

[TheFrenchRazor]

40. you have ABSOLUTELY NO WAY of knowing this or proving this, and that's the problem;

when the software is secret and the ballots invisible, for all practical purposes, then no one ever knows whether the "official" vote totals are accurate. we are simply supposed to take it on faith, and i'm sorry, i'm not a faith-based voter. i want to see the paper.

[mythology]

45. Incorrect. We can prove it

Wisconsin had counties that were hand recounted and some that were machine recounted. There was no statistical difference between those counties. The blows a giant hole through the conspiracy theory by providing exactly the evidence you say doesn't exist.

[LaydeeBug]

47. Wisconsin had SOME counties recount, and this conflates to "nothing happened" for you. O-kay. nt

[LaydeeBug]

46. I can't tell you how many times someone has said, "I know a guy...and nothing went wrong"

and they REALLY believe that shit.

[Cracklin Charlie]

30. Kick

[triron]

34. knr

[lpbk2713]

35. I have felt this way ever sine the Y2K Florida sElection.

Not so much the voting machines. That would be too labor intensive. I always suspected the data could have been intercepted somewhere between the precincts and the county or state voting headquarters.

[mountain grammy]

38. Stolen election.. I'll believe it until the day I die..

and that 63 million Americans are stupid beyond belief.

[LaydeeBug]

51. me too.

And I just don't think it was really 63 million. I think it was less than that.

It is indeed easy enough to do, and you would only need a slim margin of equipment too.

10-15% if that?

Down ballot too. This was a blue tsunami...

[mythology]

49. Once again, you fail to provide any evidence

Which is of course because you can't. I have multiple times pointed out that the evidence is against your conspiracy theory.

The national polls in 2016 were more accurate than in 2012, it just happens the difference went in Obama's favor in 2012 and Trump's in 2016. You keep saying things that are blatantly false to support your conspiracy theory. Please stop.

[LaydeeBug]

50. Oh, and I want to be clear: I don't *just* think it was the Rust belt either

I think it was Florida, North Carolina...etc.

The enemy of the enemy is my friend, so the Republicans and the Russians became the KGOPB.

[ymetca]

54. It doesn't pass the smell test that Trump campaigned in states pollsters predicted he'd lose

in areas where there weren't enough votes anyway. He was directed there for show. So that the shocking outcome would be thought to be the result of his campaigning. Meanwhile the tabulations were "finessed", and voter suppression tactics used in the more Democratic populated centers. This, along with FBI Director Comey's October Surprise, was just enough to win the Electoral College, while losing the popular vote by a wide margin overall. It's the equivalent of tilting the pinball machine and getting away with it.

It is more than a coincidence that he supposedly "won" states where exit polls said he didn't. Statistical unlikelihood is very high.

The fact that we no longer "trust" exit polls is a sure indicator vote rigging is going on.

[LaydeeBug]

55. Welcome to DU...'tilting the pinball machine' is very apt

I think that this just wasn't one *thing*. It was a coordinated effort like throwing spaghetti at a wall.

[triron]

58. You are getting warmer!

[underpants]

52. Marking. Too much good research info here

[sagesnow]

53. Audit the Vote.

Require random auditing of 10% of the vote after each election.
Black box voting machines that cannot be audited cast suspicion on all our elections.

[triron]

57. Shout it out!

[roamer65]

59. Whenever the margin is 2-3 percent, it's in the range of Rethug election rigging.

2000 and 2016.

Dems have to win by at least 5 percent to beat the fraud.

[triron]

60. Then add 1 to 2 % more for hacking

[Lucinda]

62. KNR

[diva77]

63. +1000

[butdiduvote]

64. I mean, how do we do anything about it?

Are we just powerless to let them get away with it this time around? Seems that way.