General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsDid the Bush admin start out with so much chaos?
I don't remember there being such a chaotic beginning. However, i was quite young and it was a long time ago.
What does your memory say?
elleng
(130,865 posts)SoCalNative
(4,613 posts)Shrub surrounded himself with people who actually had some experience in how the government works.
madaboutharry
(40,208 posts)But Bush had been a governor and his father was a former president, so he did understand how to get things organized. Also, he was surrounded by seasoned staff and professionals. So, no there wasn't chaos. A lot of people just thought he was dumb.
La Lioness Priyanka
(53,866 posts)from my memory of them
madaboutharry
(40,208 posts)He was the most evil. My husband called him Darth Vader.
Angry Dragon
(36,693 posts)leftstreet
(36,106 posts)Nor had they spent years in mom's basement planning Armageddon
grantcart
(53,061 posts)longship
(40,416 posts)Enjoy the irony... or not.
underpants
(182,769 posts)Love that movie
grantcart
(53,061 posts)Wounded Bear
(58,647 posts)Dr Hobbitstein
(6,568 posts)As much as it pains me to say it.
They governed like assholes, but they were competent assholes.
yardwork
(61,588 posts)Those things might have been deliberate, though.
Dr Hobbitstein
(6,568 posts)La Lioness Priyanka
(53,866 posts)but i don't remember the first month being so nutso
yardwork
(61,588 posts)Ilsa
(61,694 posts)Everything in order and fast.
I think Jim Baker headed up the transition. Baker is highly partisan, but he's proficient and experienced having worked for previous gop administrations.
exboyfil
(17,862 posts)I wonder if he asked WTF? or was he just helping to plan the palace coup.
I got to say given that this cabinet is now pretty much seated, I kind of hope for a palace coup. As far as domestic policy, we are going to get Pence anyway, and I trust him more than wacko Trump on foreign policy. We have less of a chance of dying with Pence than Trump.
JI7
(89,247 posts)yardwork
(61,588 posts)msanthrope
(37,549 posts)nolabear
(41,959 posts)Bush was a dick and his people were dicks but this is surreal. The fact they're getting away with it (so far) is just beyond the Twilight Zone.
VOX
(22,976 posts)Because BushCo ignored the available intelligence on planes into buildings, etc. They certainly knew enough for Bush to hide on his phony ranch most of summer 2001. At the same time, Atty. Gen. John Ashcroft stopped using commercial flights.
Whether the intelligence was deliberately ignored will be debated forever. But it was a short hop from that horrific attack to the ill-advised, unconnected-to-9/11 invasion of Iraq. And THAT was chaotic. So we were raining death down on Iraq about a year into W's/Cheney's administration.
underpants
(182,769 posts)Staffers. Unlike Trump and the "Beachhead teams", (holdover idea from Romney) that Pense explained in detail but appear to be utter bullshit, W&Co. were fully staffed almost immediately. The staffers all fit the same profile - superachievers who put off cashing in on their impressive degrees to pad the resume or to show their loyalty to their party. That's a WH norm regardless of party.
W instituted an 8-5 schedule. He felt people should be home with their families. This is unusual in White Houses where long hours are the rule. For these single staffers it was party time. They still cranked out their research and papers but the middle of the night stuff, that typically is their schedule, was not needed.
These staffers did have an eye opening in this culture. They did their research and created reports like they'd been doing most of their academic life but they ran into a stone wall when presenting it to more senior staff. "That's already been decided" they were told repeatedly. From what I read back then this was a shock to them. They'd always been the star and were used to their work being respected. Basically 6-8 people were deciding everything regardless of new information or insights provided by staffers.
Trump's team is almost nonexistent. The whole "Beachhead" thing (filling the almost 700 positions) appears to have been bullshit rolled out to counter news reports to the contrary. Last weekend when Trump left town they had a social to actually get to know each other and exchange contact info - and that's within the Exec Office Building.
charlyvi
(6,537 posts)Allowing looting of priceless artifacts, giving inexperienced right wing wackos crucial positions at the administrative level at which they utterly failed, shipping pallets of cash with very little oversight as to how it was spent or who ended up with it......you get the idea.
JHB
(37,158 posts)...for his ends. The Chim-Chim In Chief was surrounded by old hands at that sort of stuff.
Kremlin Don's crew a) doesn't have that experience, and b) are True Believers in wrecking it all. World's tiniest ham-hands.
MrScorpio
(73,630 posts)The difference was that Bush was never about dismantling the US Government.
CottonBear
(21,596 posts)Bush had a professional and experienced transition team, White House staff and cabinet.
Cheney was pure evil but was he extremely competent. James Baker was also a key member of the Bush team. Bush senior had been VP for 8 years and POTUS for 4 as well as head of the CIA in the 1970s. Bush junior had been Governor of Texas. So, the Bush administration had no shortage of highly competent and experienced people.
Of course 9-11 happened and then the wars. It was all horrific. But, even during the wars, there was never any sense of the total chaos and incompetence that pervades the Trump administration.
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,674 posts)I don't remember anything like this, ever.
Lanius
(599 posts)Politicos I disagreed with, but he still had a professional transition team and cabinet. It's amateur hour with Cheeto Jesus.
hatrack
(59,583 posts)The inevitable tax cut rolled out smoothly, and the Chimp was slowly declining below 50% approval into a warm bath of mediocrity when his friends the Saudis came to call, rendering him into the Cowboy Hero of 'Murca.
CountAllVotes
(20,868 posts)Even w/Bush v. Gore it was not this horrible.
still_one
(92,136 posts)bdamomma
(63,836 posts)George W Bush Republican who stole the election when the decision was made by the Supreme Court that really got me.
The Republicans never have the best interest of the American people.
These repigs will get what's coming to them. They have always played dirty, Democrats do not, but I hope that will all change I think young people are not going to take this shit. Geez I am 62 and I am ready to RESIST.
napi21
(45,806 posts)Granted, some of the Cabinet positions were given to his buds, but WH ops were filled with people who knew what they were doing.
Staff never wandered around the WH trying to figure out how to turn the lights on!!! I admit, when I read that about the current WH I almost fell out of my chair! Are they THAT STUPID they can't even think to ask one of the maintenance men or SS officers where the switches are!
Amaryllis
(9,524 posts)People were really angry because they stole the election; Bush only won FL by 537 votes and FL determined the outcome, and there was MASSIVE voter suppression and voter registration purges by the FL Sec. of State, and SCOTUS stopped the recount, so people were totally pissed.
And plenty of evil to go around, but they weren't crazy- just corrupt. And what everyone else said - lots of people with experience around Bush. It wasn't multiple crazy stuff every single day like now. And not the massive conflicts of interest. Just your usual conflicts like with most corrupt politicians.
Proud Liberal Dem
(24,406 posts)I sort of checked out of politics for the first few months of Bush's (P)residency, so I guess that there wasn't much memorable other the mess with Election 2000. I figured he'd be a one-term loser like his father but didn't think that he'd necessarily be a disaster for the country like he became. I mean, yeah, he got busy dismantling some of the regulations from the Clinton Administration, which was bad, and created somewhat of an international incident with China over the spy plane that went down there but life sort of moved on. His (mis-)Administration generally started off pretty lackluster and his PR stumbles with Senator Jim Jeffords of Vermont cost Republicans control of the Senate for a short while but I don't remember there being the same level of activism or outrages from his (mis-)Administration in as short amount of time as we're seeing from Trump, which gives me hope that we can put the brakes on him and Congressional Republicans in 2018 and then make him a one-term POTUS in 2020. *fingers crossed*
Liberty Belle
(9,534 posts)Many felt he won fraudulently both times -- in one election by hanging chads, and the Supreme Court ultimately interrupting the count to declare him the winner by a mere few hundred votes. There were voting machine fraud cases in the other election enough to have tipped the balance.
All that said, he was viewed more as a largely incompetent bungler in the early days and the biggest fear most had was his oil ties and the risk of war overseas--not an all out assault on our freedoms, rights and liberties here at home.
By September he had allowed 911 attacks to happen by ignoring security briefings, showing himself to be a fool.
That actually rallied even his enemies though against the common enemy (Al Qaeda) and just about everyone supported the war in Afghanistan to get bin Laden (which Bush never did, Obama took out bin Laden).
But Bush then started a war based on lies, falsely claiming weapons of mass destruction when he started America's first-ever preemptive war in Iraq in 2003. By then whatever support or goodwill he once had pretty much dissolved. With passage of things like the Patriot Act he lost the civil libertarians. Many suspected the war was really all about oil, as both Bush and Cheney came from the oil industry.
He somehow won reelection in 2004 (not uncommon for wartime presidents) but when Katrina hit his incompentence was exposed again for all to see. By Sept. 2005 I covered an anti-war march in Wash. DC that had a half million people. If someone can tell me how to load up photos off my hard drive I would do so.
Despite all that, he was viewed more as an incompetent party-boy controlled by "Darth Vader" Dick Cheney, a VP so bad nobody realyl wanted to impeach Bush or we'd be stuck with pure evil.
That said, in his early weeks while many of us had grave concerns about him they were nowhere near as extreme as with Trump.
Bush was not known to be a racist or sexist. He never proposed things like mass deportations or banning people based on religions. He often said we were not at war with Islam, but with extremists.
He at least came across as personable, the guy everyone wanted to have a beer with, or so his supporters said. He did surround himself with an experienced cabinet, who though conservative were mostly competent. he did not attempt things as radical as proposing to do away with the Dept. of Education or the Environmental Protection Agency, though he did sign laws that weakened environmental protections.
There were worse scandals later in his presidency including the shameful treatment of prisoners at Abu Ghrad and Guantanamo. The country went into a recession.
But for most people on the homefront, we never felt our basic system of democracy was being threatened. Bush didn't attack the courts that I can recall and was never outright insulting. While clearly the worst president we'd have up to that point, we all felt if we could survive the Bush years we could recover what was lost.
Bush also didn't have the control of Congress with one-party rule that Trump has, which makes Trump far more dangerous.
Trump is now involved so heavily in talking about voter fraud that's non-existent, meaning he wants to impose rules to rig the process worse than it already is. He's working actively to dismantle public education, the EPA, install an Attorney General with an anti-civil rights record etc. Even Bush did not appoint people we feared in high places, with the exception of some of the defense and national security posts.
Trump has actual Nazi tendencies. While there were whispers of Bush's grandfather once being a financier to the Nazis, that was as close as it came. Trump himself is clearly racist, as was his father who participated in a KKK rally. Far from trying to distance himself, Trump appointed Bannon, publisher of a racist and anti-Semitic faux-news site, and a racist AG. He is pushing for a return to torture and secret black ops. He wants to deport 8 million undocumented immigrants (so far, per the LA Times) and keep Muslims out and anybody else from non-white nations that he can get away with.
He also attacks the press and his enemies in ways not normally seen in democracies, only dictatorships. His praise for Putin, a murderous dictator who may well have influenced the election through hacking, is also chilling and unprecedented.
Bad as Bush was, or Nixon or Reagan, I would take any of them in a heartbeat over the evil, heartless, and probably deranged narcissitic maniac now in the White House. I fear he could even start a nucllear war in a fit of anger, given his childish tirades and questions over why can't we just use nukes.
I am nearly 60, have been a journalist for 35 years, and have never felt more afraid of any public figure than this one.
Of course we all have more internet access nowadays to know what is happening, things once hidden behind closed doors perhaps. But overall I do believe Trump is a million times more frightening than Bush on his worst days.
La Lioness Priyanka
(53,866 posts)Should be an op in its own right
Liberty Belle
(9,534 posts)His head of FEMA, "heckuva job Brownie" was a former horse farmer who diddn't know what he was doing, and why we know from experience that appointment incompetent people to head agencies can have catastrophic consequences. A lot of people drowned needlessly during Hurricane Katrina in New Orleans and didn't get proper relief afterwards due to to this appointee.
During Katrina, the top Bush folks were all astoundingly unconcerned. I was covering Bush's entourage here. He played air guitar with a dopey grin at an event in San DIego. He ditched out of visiting wounded vets at a military hospital; all of us in the press corps thought he'd probably decided to go back to Washington to deal with the crisis or maybe fly over New Orleans. Instead he went to visit John McCain in Arizona to cut McCain's birthday cake.
Meanwhile while the levees were bursting and putting New Orleans underwater, The Secretary of Defense was photographed at a Padres Game in San Diego, while the Secretary of State Condoleeza Rice as shoe shopping in New York. Those two were not stupid nitwits; they were experienced in their fields, but were uncaring about the suffering of others at least in New Orleans. Cheney seemed to be nowhere to be found at the time, either.
meadowlander
(4,394 posts)Didn't work out so well in the end, but at least we didn't have a complete monkey shit-show two weeks into his first term.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)in his presidency
R B Garr
(16,950 posts)Cheney especially knew enough that he had to install himself as VP to provide deep cover for their agendas interrupted by 8 years of Clinton.