The Future Of The Democratic Party, According To The Bernie Sanders Wing

[Fantastic Anarchist]

FiveThirtyEight

Malone: This is perhaps an uncomfortable question for a lot of Democrats, but do you think the Democratic Party was too top-heavy on cultural issues and was not paying enough attention to core economic messaging? And tied into that — how does the party balance civil rights issues, gay rights issues while also trying to put the pedal to the metal on appealing to the working class that in some places, black or white, doesn’t share certain progressive cultural values?

Kauffman: That’s a really good question. I do think it’s possible to be focused on both economic and cultural issues at the same time. I think from a strategic standpoint, perhaps one of the mistakes was not focusing on our frame and moving it forward and instead constantly being distracted by Donald Trump. I think that those distractions prevented us from being able to shine a bright enough light on our economic message. He would tweet about something and then everybody would get up in arms and they would respond back, and it felt like the news cycle was just wash, rinse and repeat. Every 24 hours, there was something crazy that he would say, and everybody would respond to it.

And I think at the end of the day, a lot of people, even sometimes I said it: “Oh I wish Hillary Clinton would have had a better economic message.” In the end, she had an economic message. I think it didn’t cut through. And I think that part of that was because everyone, me included, we were all too focused on responding to Donald Trump’s “Trumpster fires” as we were referring to them. It meant that more resources needed to be devoted to cutting through the noise by promoting social media content and by having more digital advertising to cut through that echo chamber, to cut through the noise and deliver that economic message, along with cultural messages to voters.

Malone: I know you’ve worked with a number of labor groups. Labor has been on a decades-long decline as far as power. A lot of labor households voted Trump this year, and I’m wondering what is the future of the labor movement within the Democratic Party.

Kauffman: One thing that’s going to be key is letting union members know what’s happening. Donald Trump had talked about “draining the swamp,” and he’s turned around, and he wants to stack his Cabinet with picks from Goldman Sachs and Exxon. To stack the Cabinet with Washington and Wall Street insiders is the opposite of “draining the swamp,” and I think for union members, they’re going to be really concerned when they connect the dots and realize what’s happening.

With regard to where does labor go from here, it’s a really interesting question, and it’s something that the labor movement has been asking themselves. We’re seeing them redefine what it means to be in the labor movement. Do you work? Then, yes, if you work, then you’re part of the labor movement. Work has value, and that means you’re part of this movement and part of what makes America great.

More at: FiveThirtyEight

[bravenak]

1. I'm tired of them

[butdiduvote]

2. Me too

Still demanding full control of our big-tent party.

[bravenak]

3. And not willing to put in th time to build a coalition

This purity politics and trashing our cultural outreach is sickening. Starting to feel like that 'wing' think folks like me just do not matter one bit. We're too cultural.

[brush]

4. Right. How many time do we have to tell these people Hillary got 3M more votes...

in the stolen election.

It was a Comey/Putin/Crosscheck/vote suppresion led coup.

They should be having "deep" discussions about how to stop that instead of agonizing and finding fault.

[bravenak]

5. No matter how many times we repeat the facts, they will ignore it to bash dems

Tired of them and I am not having it. I'm in fightmode and I think they'd better chill out on us before they lose their seats at the table

[zipplewrath]

16. And this the explanation for the last 6 years?

The democratic party has been losing seats in both houses, and in the states for several cycles. Is that all due to voter suppression or is there something else going on here? Why has the number of union households slowly been converting to GOP voters?

[brush]

18. It's all part of the same repug game. 24/7 right wing radio and FOX indoctrinating...

the uninformed to vote against their own economic interests is part of their strategy. It's worked and gotten their ultimate "wet dream" of a president in but he's the beginning of the end of their dream because he's being exposed as an incompetent boob.

He won't last four years.

[zipplewrath]

19. How is that separate from the OP?

The OP was talking about messaging, and talk radio and FOX have been all about messaging. The suggestion is that the democrats need to work on theirs. My observation is that they presented it as an "either/or" proposition. We either talk about cultural/civil issues, or we talk about economic issues. I don't think it is one or the other, merely that a certain balance of effort, time, and resources needs to be maintained. The assertion is that the messaging has been effectively ignoring the lower middle economic classes for years.

[Fantastic Anarchist]

30. Thank you for getting the point!

Instead of mocking what we didn't say, you actually read the article ... and understood it!

[Blue_true]

21. Many different reasons, religion, race hatred, fear of immigrants,

A changing economy that their skills are poorly suited for, hatred of "socialism". I have hired Union people and worked with them, a large number have rather primitive racial views, hate that democrats want to put resources in job training programs, hate that democrats work to insure that minorities get a fair shot at high paying jobs. Plus, a lot of union members have voted for republicans for a long, long time, how does one explain Ohio, Indiana or the Michigan Legislature otherwise?

[zipplewrath]

23. Kinda my point

The reasons for the decline of the democratic party are less connected to the Russians and Comey than they are to the collapse of the union movement.

[lunasun]

6. I was thinking exactly the same thought as I was reading the OP

[bravenak]

8. It's getting exhausting

[lunasun]

9. I would also use 'annoying or boring' but yes that too. Many adjectives apply

an·noy·ing
əˈnoiiNG/
adjective
causing irritation or annoyance.
"annoying habits"
synonyms: irritating, infuriating, exasperating, maddening, trying, tiresome, troublesome, bothersome, nettlesome, obnoxious, irksome, vexing, cursed, vexatious, galling;

[bravenak]

10. Hell yeah

Galling is a good description. Exasperating too.

[HassleCat]

7. I don't see a problem.

We'll keep on doing what we have been doing, and getting the same result. We're happy with that, right? All these dissenters, complainers, whiners, trouble makers, etc. can go form a third party. We don't need them. We don't want them. They can take themselves and their votes somewhere else. We are winning, and we will continue to win, just as we won in 2016. We want to sit around the campfire and sing Kumbuya without these Bernie Bros peeing on it.

[Fantastic Anarchist]

12. I know you're being sarcastic ...

... but look upthread and see posters who are in "fight mode" and tired of our bullshit. Calling us annoying and irritating.

That's what loses electoral college elections. Forgetting about states like Michigan, and folks like me, kinda loses elections. No lessons need to be learned because they're annoying and irritating. Winning strategy, eh?

And I'm not calling for purity (I voted for Hillary in North Carolina). I'm just calling for inclusion, for my opinion to be heard and not dismissed. I'm calling for some Democrats to stop behaving like Republicans, and stop voting for Trump's nominees. I'd like for some working class issues to be front and center, instead of as an after-thought because someone like Bernie dared to emphasize such. I'd like single-payer health insurance so we can have a healthy and happy society like most of the rest of the world.

Just simple, normal, and reasonable things to ask. Hope that's not too annoying or irritating.

[HassleCat]

15. The purity thing cuts both ways.

Some of the more orthodox party regulars are intent hunting down and purging those who criticize our tactics and strategy over the past 35 years or so. And they're not worried at all about inclusion, diversity, etc. They rail against the "purity ethic" of the Bernie Bros, and see themselves as loving, tolerant, inclusive, and so on. This would be funny if it weren't so destructive.

[Fantastic Anarchist]

27. The hypocrisy and irony is frothing over the lip like foam on a nice cold beer.

Though, the beer, of course, tastes much better.

[Blue_true]

22. I want them to form a third party and get the fuck out

Of the Democratic Party. If we know that we can count on them, we can tune our message to people that we can count on. I despise people that insist that everyone bend to conform to the 25% of issues that they insist are the only issues. Racism has been a big contributor to the economic and racial problems that country has faced since the civil war - to allege that men who have largely been put on a economic pedestal and now feel the effects of global competition for jobs be rushed in front of women and minorities that have always faced resistance to them having good jobs is bullshit thinking that the Democratic Party must stay away from.

[bravenak]

26. Thank you

[Fantastic Anarchist]

28. Wow, the hypocrisy is duly noted, Dear Stalin. n/t

[surrealAmerican]

38. This would be very easily accomplished.

Since they're so concerned about economic issues, just make it clear that the Democratic Party stands for tax breaks for the wealthy funded by cuts to Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security. That way you can be sure they will never polute you precious party ever again. Hey, you might even pick up some tea party voters to replace them this way.

[msongs]

11. get 1 million CA dems and redistribute them strategically and we's win a dozen red states. nt

[Warren DeMontague]

13. Sure, go to Los Angeles and find 50,000 people who are willing to move to Wyoming

let me know how that works out.

[alarimer]

14. I see nothing controversial here.

They mostly need a way to get more non-voters to turn out and that it distinguishing the Democratic Party from the Republican one. But the Democrats have a real problem. They can call themselves the "party of the people" all the want, but unless they shed their ties to Wall Street and Silicon Valley, no one will believe it. Time to lift a page from FDR's 1936 speech at Madison Square Garden:

"We had to struggle with the old enemies of peace—business and financial monopoly, speculation, reckless banking, class antagonism, sectionalism, war profiteering.

They had begun to consider the Government of the United States as a mere appendage to their own affairs. We know now that Government by organized money is just as dangerous as Government by organized mob.

Never before in all our history have these forces been so united against one candidate as they stand today. They are unanimous in their hate for me—and I welcome their hatred." FDR

[Blue_true]

24. You are applying the tools of a 1930 economy

To a 2017 world. The fact is automation and artificial intelligence have largely eliminated several layers of workers in America, coupled with the fact that a person can buy a desired product or material from several places in the world today whereas in 1930, the USA was one of maybe two or three choices. Insisting on 1930 solutions will get us only partial relief. Keep and expand SS and Medicare to younger aged Americans, PAY people to NOT have children, remove the SS cap so that workers at all income levels pay in for the full year, start building on the concept of guaranteed income because smart machines and AI will soon take 85-90% of all jobs.

Silicon Valley is a vital part of our economy and generally has forward thinking behavior relative to how workers are treated and paid. Wall Street, blow it the fuck up, it is a casino that has little value now that capital can be sourced from anywhere today.

[alarimer]

25. I take your point about the new economy but disagree about Silicon Valley

There is a strong whiff of libertarianism among those companies. Take Uber, for example, which classifies its workers as contractor to get out of paying their fair share. The "gig" economy is full of nonsense like that and we'd all be contractors if Silicon Valley had its way. To say nothing of the way they have pushed working class people out of San Francisco and other cities. Neither of those things should represent progressive values.

No thanks.

I certainly am liking the idea of a universal basic income because I think the crappy jobs that have replaced good jobs of old certainly do not pay enough or provide benefits. It would let people tell a bad boss to go to hell.

But my quote from FDR was just that he was bold enough to make the 1% hate him and I think we need to return to those days where the upper marginal tax rate was damn near 100%. Not the 35 or 39% it is now. Those people live like kings off the labor of others and should pay their fair share. If we did that, there would be no issue with SS or Medicare or anything else. My point being that for a while now the Democrats have catered as much to those people as to working people and that has to change. And end the revolving door between Goldman Sachs, etc. and the government.

[Fantastic Anarchist]

34. I had left a great place that I worked at for 8 years to go to another place for more money.

Worst decision of my life. I left that job and settled for another one that was really "iffy." I decided to take it because I didn't want to be out of work for too long. At that point, the $350 weekly check was just a bonus since I was already pretty comfortable.

Then, due to this new company moving to a new platform (something that I wish I would have known), I was laid-off. Now, with two short term jobs in my recent history, it was hell looking for work, and also making what I was making. I was out of work for six months (I know there are horror stories of much longer periods of time, but this hit me pretty hard). The first month was okay, but now the money was running out, and those $350 checks were all that I had - but then they ran out because of the limit the Republicans implemented.

I was desperate. I had a fiance and step-child to take care of, too. I maxed out all of my credit cards, tried to keep up with my car payment and rent. Finally had to move into her mom's house (worst nightmare). I just started working again back in December (had to take a contracting job with shitty insurance). December was sporadic due to the holidays (and when you're a contractor, you don't get paid for holidays). Now, I've got a few steady weeks underneath me, and just now got my head above water. Yet, I'm drowning in debt (had a great credit score back in June). Those measly $350 checks ran out, but could have actually helped me, it could help people who need it while looking for work! Three hundred and fifty dollars is absolutely nothing! And then to limit the pay out on top of that? That sunk me. I'm just now getting out of the worst depression I have ever had. I don't answer my phone now because creditors are blasting my phone (yes, I'll get to them, but let me get stabilized first). I don't know what to do now. I mean, if I had help (like a real basic income that didn't stop), I could have kept up with my debt payments (was at 20% utilization because I tracked my credit diligently). I would have been a more productive member of society a lot sooner if I had legitimate help. I'm a wreck mentally and emotionally still - so, of course, there are those costs. It's so backwards thinking to say, "Hey, that guy's out of work, let's stop giving him money, so he can sink lower into debt, maybe he'll steal cars, rob banks, do drugs to feel better, whatever crime that will feed him and his family, and make them feel better (not saying I did this - just speaking generally)!!! Yay!!

So, the point is, wouldn't it have been wiser to invest a little more upfront, and the phone bill, the apartment and all of the creditors would have been paid (we did have to skip out on our last month's rent). So, I went from a contributor to the economy, to a drain on the economy, and now that I'm working again, I'm still a drain on the economy because I still can't pay all of my bills. Will probably have to declare bankruptcy. I've never been through something like this, so I'm all ears if anyone has any suggestions.

I'm just saying that the upper classes have no fucking idea when they want to cut benefits such as unemployment insurance, or someone's social security, or Medicare. They don't realize that it does more harm than the alleged money they save. I think they actually don't care. If somehow you become poor, then you need to pay for it. Literally! My bank account had a negative balance, and each transaction that hit, I had to pay a fee! Totally logical: "That guy has no money! Let's charge him more money for not having any!"

Uggh ... what's sad is that the US has more than enough resources to make every single person comfy, and still have the uber-wealthy to enjoy their 10 mansions and 20 yachts, but we choose not to because we're a nation of greedy sociopaths who actually don't like making decisions that make any sense, we like to make decisions that are totally moronic!

[Fantastic Anarchist]

33. Great Quote ... and I welcome their hatred, too.

You have to also remember that FDR was trying to save capitalism from itself. He had adopted or coopted many of the socialists and communists rhetoric, and put into place a small amount of their agenda (however modified they were). He understood that an angry working class could cause trouble, and did some things to ameliorate that anger and fight.

[randome]

17. Here's my critique of the Independent Party: do something.

[hr][font color="blue"][center]Where do uncaptured mouse clicks go?[/center][/font][hr]

[HughBeaumont]

20. "Romney Democrats" wanted someone to lie to them. Orange Lincoln Rockwell was that liar.

I'm not really optimistic about a big picture that requires millennials to finance a mortgage to educate themselves . . . unlike GenX or the Boomers. They're ball-chained coming out of the starting gate. THAT'S one problem.

Another problem is when your economy is getting meaner and more corporatized, "JUST WERK HARDER, SNOFLAKE!!" is a cop-out that's not going to solve shit. We're still relying on 20th Century Reaganomics problem-solving in 2017 Capitalism that's been plagued with a distribution problem since around 1981 that's growing worse with each passing year.

What was ever going to be said to people in careers that are soon going the way of the dodo? No politician wants to blame their precious and infallible Capitalism on anything, or even concede to make a few minor and major changes so that it's more equitable.

It just fucking angers me that we're not taking Capitalism's distribution problems and unsustainable future more seriously. Anyone who thinks these aren't worrisome problems needs to wake the hell up and FAST.

[Fantastic Anarchist]

35. Amen!

I just told my story here.

And I posted the following in the Socialist Progressives Group:

On the Internationalization of Capital and Carpmentalization of Labor

What the Capitalists have done is copy what Trotsky and other socialists and anarchists agitated for in terms of international socialism, and Labor. No doubt that the monstrosity that was the Soviet Union and its satellites contributed to the weakening of socialism and Labor worldwide, but let us turn our attention to how the Capitalists mimicked the socialist ideal, and termed it globalism.

One of the strategies were the attacks on Unions still being carried out on the state level, has been a factor (I'm unsure how large) in wage stagnation. There has been almost zero growth in wages since the 70s, while profits have skyrocketed. Business are sitting on vast amounts of money and/or offshoring it. They then lobby state governments to institute “Right to Work" laws, which is a euphemism for blocking the right of workers to collectively organize and bargain for wages. The collapse in labor organization has kept wages low.

Even in states that don't have this undemocratic law, and have relatively strong Union representation have been affected as Union leverage in bargaining has been greatly diminished due to threats to move factories to, or use labor from these “Right to Work" states, or simply outsourcing their labor production to countries like China or India, who are known for their extremely lax labor protection laws.

This depresses wages worldwide.

Here in the United States, the decreasing number of Unions are corrupt and effectively act as a proxy for management to control their labor.

Since propaganda efforts to stigmatize Unions (and some Unions being corrupt) have decreased labor membership, and with trade agreements that allow capital to organize and move internationally, has the effect of really making unions anywhere in the world ineffective in fighting for workers' rights, and to raise wages. This, of course creates a “race to the bottom" effect that will only further deteriorate labor conditions and ability to bargain. As wages stagnate and fail to keep up with inflation, or are even lowered, the workers, who are also consumers, will no longer be able to afford the products they make. This will likely result in a snowball effect as businesses go bankrupt, resulting in more unemployment which further depresses the worldwide economy (by the way, just the mere rhetoric of slapping 20% import tariffs will have negative effects in the economy).

The only solution I see is for labor to be able to organize worldwide. They must be able to communicate and implement this organization in these multinational trade deals. The only union that has been successful in the past at increasing labor rights, wages, and protections, is the Industrial Workers of the World (IWW). Any worker, employed or unemployed, is able to join.

It's time to organize for a better society, and for labor to be a part of the decision-making process. Only Labor creates value, and so should at least partially be in control of that value, including surplus value which we refer to as profits, and heretofore, has only accumulated into an increasingly smaller group of people, who generally do not have the same interests of society as whole, often having conflicting interests.

It's time to organize before it's too late. For now, we are in the voluntary stage. We, as a society, would not like it to go to the involuntary stage.

[NCTraveler]

29. This whole "Bernie Wing" is nothing but crap and an attempt to damage the party.

The party is left to the point the Green Party had an embarrassing showing. The "Clinton Wing", which is just as much of a bs statement, put Sanders to shame in the primary, and got three million more votes than Trump in the general.

All of this shit is just rehashing the primaries considering There was no "Bernie Wing" until the primaries.

Stop the bullshit.

[Fantastic Anarchist]

36. No.

I won't stop the "bullshit."

I am allowed to have an opinion, and I am allowed to post here provided it's within the rules. The article is talking about articulating a message. If you don't like the message, then you are welcome to not post in the thread I created.

[NCTraveler]

37. I can post where I want.

As can you. I have little respect for the mostly imaginary Nader wing.

I agree, you can and do have an opinion.

I don't think this falls within the rules. It's supporting Independents, rehashing the primaries, and little more than ratfucking. I get that it builds JPR cred.

[Alpeduez21]

31. Republicans win

How does the republican party stay in Power? They lie, cheat, and steal elections. But most importantly, everyone tows the party line. Ryan, Cruz, McConnell, etc all got in line behind Trump. Their newspapers, radio shows, and tv stations all tow the party line. Down ticket governors, state senators and legislators, city councilmen, and the like all tow the party line. Why do they tow the party line? They think and act like this is a war. People back a winner and to the American public the Republican party is a winner.

You want more than a two or four year respite from republican destruction then get your ass out there and resist!!! March in line, hold a sign, show up at representative meetings, go to their open meetings, demand public appearances by your representatives. Run a voter registration campaign, drive people to register, drive people to vote, knock on doors and talk to people about progressive agendas, call republican doofuses and demand they back progressive agendas. Yes, call. Don't tweet or email. Run against any republican out there and/or vote for someone who does. Get into Republican primary races so they have to spend money, time, and effort on those rather than just running against a democrat. SAY THANK YOU TO A DEMOCRAT WHO HOLDS OFFICE.

We are at war, ladies and gentlemen. I firmly believe you can never be too progressive. I also believe the only good republican is a retired one. The debates about which direction the Democratic party should go is akin to arranging deck chairs on the Titanic. It won't matter a whit if we don't take and hold offices everywhere. Everyone is welcome under the democratic umbrella, we are not a party of exclusion. Neither are we a party that wins by promoting fear and hatred. Get your ass out there and defeat a republican. Tell everyone why republicans need to be defeated and never ever stop fighting.

[JHan]

32. Great post. Agreed 100% Welcome to DU :)

*Edit The only point at this stage is defeating the GOP. "Period"