from the failing New York Times....'Is It Time to Call Trump Mentally Ill?'

[spanone]

A lot of people seem to be questioning President Trump’s mental health. This month, Representative Ted Lieu, a California Democrat, went so far as to say he was considering proposing legislation that would require a White House psychiatrist.

More controversial is the number of mental health experts who are joining the chorus. In December, a Huffington Post article featured a letter written by three prominent psychiatry professors that cited President Trump’s “grandiosity, impulsivity, hypersensitivity to slights or criticism, and an apparent inability to distinguish between fantasy and reality” as evidence of his mental instability. While stopping short of giving the president a formal psychiatric diagnosis, the experts called for him to submit to a full medical and neuropsychiatric evaluation by impartial investigators.

A practicing psychologist went further in late January. He was quoted in a U.S. News and World Report article titled “Temperament Tantrum,” saying that President Trump has malignant narcissism, which is characterized by grandiosity, sadism and antisocial behavior.

I don’t doubt that these experts believe they are protecting the country from a president whose behavior they — like many of us — see as dangerous. A recent letter to the editor in this newspaper, signed by 35 psychiatrists, psychologists and social workers, put it this way: “We fear that too much is at stake to be silent.” It continued, “We believe that the grave emotional instability indicated by Mr. Trump’s speech and actions makes him incapable of serving safely as president.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/17/opinion/is-it-time-to-call-trump-mentally-ill.html?_r=0

[Mr. Ected]

1. I have a follow-up question

After 30+ of right wing hate radio and television, are the American people afflicted with their own propaganda-induced mental illness?

Yes, Trump is stark raving mad.

But the Deplorables are also ill. They see Democratic success as failure. They see comical bluffing as strong leadership. They see the world upside down, because they have been relentlessly conditioned to do so.

Our. People. Are. Sick.

And Mr. Trump is the result, the symptom of our mass illness.

[Silver Gaia]

6. I hear you.

[starshine00]

7. thank the biblical deity

and religionist indoctrination.

None of which has anything to do with the real deities that exist and their unbelievable kindness, love, light, and holiness.

When I was a child I had nightmares about God.

We come into the world these beings of light and love and this horrific stone age abrahamic crap is foisted onto us to scare us into rigid authoritarianism. It is lifelong damage in some cases and Trump followers are the end result.

They literally want a dictator because they see ''God" as a dictator of the universe due to indoctrination.

I believe they are the scariest and most unpatriotic people in our country. The DO NOT believe in separation of powers. They want a Putin. Or a Kim Jong Un. They should be sent packing to places where there are rulers like this, they do not deserve their freedom in a democracy.

[BBG]

9. You have a point

And not just a question. When people are groomed to set aside their own self interest and support policies that do nothing to benefit their own lives. Continually harangued by a false narrative, brainwashing them into distorted and unreal sense of reality. They should be pitied. And provided assistance through some sort of counseling program. Some would call it a reeducation program but in reality many of our fellow citizens have been shortchanged on their first education.

[Stinky The Clown]

10. That's a very interesting thought.

Is that its own syndrome?

[ancianita]

19. Whatever they are -- 'sick' is a common description -- they have not freely chosen to be so.

Trump might be a manifestation of what is wrong. But even if it's pathological, it's evolved over time. The people who voted for Trump might be feeling a kind of sympathy toward his outlook, his feeling a bit defensive and out of control, and even more antipathy for media who they think might be hounding him. They believe, I think, that Trump is in a restructuring phase that much of America just doesn't understand.

While we can laugh and react, there should be more to guide us than framing our problems along social science or medical models.

A great frame for rethinking this country's approaches toward freedom and politics is the groundbreaking book, "Creating Freedom" by Raoul Martinez, which deconstructs the constructs we've lived by in understanding our American version of "freedom."

It maps ways to free us from the competing constraints of our definitions; gives us tools toward internalizing new behaviors that produce a progressive governing structure.

[George II]

22. It all goes back to the FCC rules changes implemented during the Reagan administration.

Before the 1980s, no single entity could own more than one radio station and newspaper in a so-called marketing area. That was rescinded 30+ years ago, enabling the rise of Murdoch, Fox, Real Clear, etc.

Now you drive from NYC to Chicago and just about all you get is right wing talk radio. Don't like a right wing talk show, hit your car radio scan button - the next station the tuner stops at is the SAME right wing talk show on another station. Repeat, the same thing.

[KittyWampus]

23. What a great post. It deserves it's own forum for discussion.

[MineralMan]

32. No doubt a certain percentage of Americans are.

Either that or lack the intelligence to discern what is true from what is not. Half of the population is below average in intelligence, by definition. I don't know how that is distributed among Republicans, though. I don't think anyone knows that. I'd be interested, though, to learn more about the distribution of IQ by political party.

[GliderGuider]

33. I was just writing up a post on this topic!

Yes, there is a schism in American society that appears to unbridgeable. The two sides can loosely be called "Realists" and "Trumpists".

The genesis of the schism goes back to the Powell Memo in 1972 that convinced corporations to get into the social engineering business. The FCC changes mentioned above were one of the outcomes that enabled RW hate radio. Those changes to broadcast media permitted the mass brainwashing of a large number of citizens, until now they truly live in another reality. Their version of reality is now headed by by Trump.

Then Citizens United came along, and allowed the extension of this corporate version of reality into politics. That has resulted in the modern GOP and ultimately Trump himself.

The chasm is unbridgeable without deprogramming the brainwashed sector of the populace - people I have called the "Manchurian Voters". Unfortunately, the deprogramming would require unwinding the changes brought about by the Powell Memo, the FCC changes and Citizens United. Then the economy needs to be made more equitable to undercut their sense of "left-behind" grievance. And finally, once all that is done, the actual deprogramming (if it can be accomplished at all) would probably require another generation and a half - 45 - years to take effect. This time frame is equivalent to the time iut took to brainwash them in the first place.

The Trumpists' problem isn't really stupidity or ignorance, despite what it looks like to us. It's brainwashing. They have been reeducated into a new worldview, and see every event, every idea, through those filters.

[Dark n Stormy Knight]

41. Absolutely 100% true. It's very disturbing because a symptom of the illness is that they cannot

recognize the illness. People don't know what they don't know. And when you're not very smart, you aren't smart enough to know that. Much of this Trump adoration is from people who are not smart enough to recognize, for instance, the illogic in his ideas or the paucity of his language skills.

Many of those same people hated Obama because they could sense that he was smarter than them. Rather than thank their lucky stars, they resented the fact that the leader of the free world might just be a little better informed, better educated, and generally farbetter suited to a position as important as the presidency than someone like themselves.

[bmbmd]

2. Where's James Coburn

when you need him?

[world wide wally]

16. Where are the fucking "Beatles"?

That will never happen again, but it sure was a great dose of positive reality when it did happen.

[Dustlawyer]

3. Trump is nuts, but McTurtle and Eddie Munster Ryan won't do anything to upset their agenda if

only they could just get Donald to focus!

The media and it's corporate propaganda is responsible for the ignorant Trump/Republican supporters. They need to be busted up and we need to require the truth in news!

I spoke to someone yesterday who thinks Trump will interfere on behalf of the victims of the BP oil spill. WTF?

[Dave Starsky]

4. These people believe Trump will do a lot of things for them...

that he has never said he would do or, more likely, that he has specifically said he WON'T do.

There are Republican kids out there who have been told that Trump will be bringing presents down the chimney this Christmas.

[Cha]

5. Is someone who denies reality and is a sociopathic, pathological

liar mentality ill?

[MoonRiver]

14. The denial of reality part could lead us to that conclusion.

But I don't know if it is really delusion, or pathological lying without a filter. A filter would tell him, nobody is going to believe this, so stfu, and look for another, more believable, lie. Functioning sociopaths have this filter, which is why MOST are so successful deceiving their victims. I think Rump has dementia, which would drastically reduce his ability to accurately scam others. JMHO.

[KittyWampus]

25. His behavior has never been effectively checked. Ever. I have posted he's a 70 year old bully

who should have gotten a punch in the face many decades ago.

Since his behavior has never been checked, he's only ever escalated.

Why shouldn't he?

No one has ever stopped him before. Not to any great extent.

[MoonRiver]

29. Any other low IQ sociopath would be in jail by now.

But he had money, so he's skirted responsibility. SAD

[catbyte]

8. Well, duh. Ya think?!?

[BumRushDaShow]

11. All of these so-called pundits and medical "professionals"

have been assuming that what he has been doing for the last 40 years and what we are seeing now is just "an act", and AnyDayNow™ some "real Donald Trump" will suddenly surface and everything will be honky dory typical GOP blather.

It AIN'T happenin' folks. He is what he is. An unstable and pretentious sick puppy. His "bravado" has caused them to pull back from criticism and it needs to stop. The sooner they deal with him the better.

[kwassa]

12. It was time six months ago, a year ago, five years ago ....

The reluctance to do it is what has put us in this situation right now. This insanity could have been stopped long ago.

He clearly has a narcissistic personality disorder, to say the least, and is ADD, as well. Viewed through this lens, everything he does is completely understandable, yet people keep judging him as if he were a rational actor. He is not.

[RKP5637]

13. K&R!!! n/t

[Orsino]

15. In the absence of an examination and diagnosis, no.

First, tell me how his behavior differs from any other little boy's who grew up wealthy, with every wish granted instantly. Then tell me why any differences must stem from mental illness. Do those things, and maybe I'll get on board.

I'm not eager to absolve him of the crimes I believe he's committed. I think he's sane, merely (remarkably) unequipped for life as an adult in the real world.

But I'm not qualified to evaluate him, and those who are have not evaluated him.

[gordianot]

17. With Trump's Narcissism he cannot face being poor.

His current masters took advantage of Mental Health and recruited him years ago. The birtherism was an early Russian attempt at disruption of the American Presidency. Notice how quickly Trump dropped it when it was no longer to his advantage. I believe many of Trump's positions are being fed to him by persons compromised. Trump's mental health makes him an easy and useful tool. Such a collection of miscreants is not natural strings are being pulled.

[world wide wally]

18. It is so glaringly obvious but people want to "pretend" he is sane for some delusional reason.

Just look at his facial expressions. Try to follow his logic. Count how many lies he tells and admit they are lies. How many hissy fits he throws. How ungrateful he is for all he has and how he still plays the victim.
This is not how a sane man functions.

[Brogrizzly]

20. It is a shame we are even having to have this discussion.

New here, so first posting. I feel some contempt for all those hours of free media he got leading up to the election. This should have been discussed more, not Hillary and her emails.

[panader0]

24. Welcome to DU!

[Auntie Bush]

30. Welcome to DU Brogrizzly.

This is one of the sane places on the internet...most the time!

[Maru Kitteh]

31. Welcome to DU :-)

[Brogrizzly]

34. Thanks!

[Maru Kitteh]

35. I like the name! I live in Montana so I kind of have a "Griz" thing

I saw a small juvenile griz on the property once and had this lovely black bear show up a couple years ago.

?1

[Brogrizzly]

36. I like the cat, defensively poised.

That's really cool, I'm not in true grizzly country, but we do get a black bear now and again. I didn't know they had liberals in Montana? Nah I'm kidding, are you familiar with the Whitefish Township and the Spencer happenings?

[Maru Kitteh]

37. Oh better than that. I pissed off Richard Spencer himself good and proper a few days ago.

Internet Nazis are such snowflakes.

[Brogrizzly]

38. No way! May I ask how?

Only if it's something you wish to share, but either way, that is awesome.

[Maru Kitteh]

39. Pretty simple. I told him I hope the next Nazi-puncher he runs into tries harder.

He took it poorly, for some reason.

ETA I also told him about having a great time with the crowd at the brewery in Whitefish, watching videos of him getting punched to music. For some reason, he didn't respond to that one.

[Brogrizzly]

40. Ahahahaha!

That's fantastic, I don't condone violence on anyone, but I also felt a bit giddy when that clown got punched. That's a perfect reply to him though.

[mainstreetonce]

21. He comes off as delusional,but yet careful

He will repeat a statistic about electoral votes that is proven untrue.
Yet will carefully dodge the answers to questions about what he knew about the Flynn mess .

[Kimchijeon]

26. " malignant narcissism, which is characterized by grandiosity, sadism and antisocial behavior. "

....sums up what we all knew already, doesn't it?

Pretty accurate.

[loyalsister]

27. Only if they want to promote bigotry

Speculating about mental illness of a mass shooter, ex spouse, boss, president... is exploitive of the stigma people who genuinely suffer from it.
It's ableist to promote the label without the kind of proof one would demand for themselves.
Irrationnality, self absorbtion, ignorance, are not actually abnormal in the context of a person who has been coddled in a world constructed to revolve around him. He doesn't have a temperament condusive to serving as president. It's a job where a person is going to be criticixed and ridiculed mercilessly. As someone who is mostly able to avoid any criticism, he is acting pretty naturally.
He hasn't lived in a world with the usual struggles and disappointments, thus he was never prepared to serve millions of bosses and not have things go as planned.
Not many people are equipped to take on the role. Why he or anyone else would have believed he could step into that role and magically be able to handle it is a mystery to me, as is comparing him to people who have been able to adapt to the job.
He is in over his head and he is flailing and freaking out because it's not what he expected. It does not require a diagnosis to acknowledge that he was never intellectually or temperamentally equipped to do a job that requires serious work and entails many failures on an international stage.

[Kimchijeon]

28. And a reminder, our prisons are full of the mentally ill

So we shouldn't be afraid to call it out. Plenty of antisocial narcissists and people less "evil" than he is are in prison. They just didn't have the benefit of Daddy's money and handlers with kid gloves to scoot them out of jail time their entire lives.

As far as a 'get out of jail free card', being mentally ill doesn't work for most people, but yes I realize, he will assuredly get out of it due to privilege as always... one can wish though right?