OMFG!! with new news to make this more clear.

[Doreen]

My boyfriend just called me on his way to Germany in Iceland. I found out that he was born to a German father and mother. His German father died on the Autobahn when he was 4 months old. His mother later met his American father while he was stationed in Frankfurt Germany. They got married and when my boyfriend was 3 his American father started procedure to adopt him which because my boyfriend was a German citizen and going through American law also it took until he was about 6 before it was complete. When he was 7 his American father died. Now his mother had had dual citizenship to the U.S by the time my boyfriend was born but he was born in a German hospital. He came here when he was 14 with his mother and had to take the citizenship test to become a citizen of the U.S. His mother died when he was 16 ( yes he has dealt with a lot of death ) so she is not here for them to check with. He is on record for being a protester and belonging to groups fighting the Republicans and that is one of the reasons they are picking on him, his protests go deeper than just standing on the street with signs but he has not broken the law though they did try to give him a felony for inciting a riot which they had to drop because they could not prove it and with this crap they are pulling they of course tried to bring it up. He by the way has 6 immigration lawyers a couple are in Germany and the others are in a few different states in America and except for paying $500 it is all Pro Bono. He does not want me to go to a news source at this time because he does not want to ruffle the idiots feathers at this time any more than they are already ruffled. He went to Germany by the way so he did not have to sit in a detention center which he found out by his lawyer would take longer for them to get the info and being free in Germany it would be faster to gather the info the assholes need. That is why he went to Germany so it was not forced...well not completely as they gave him a flippin choice of leaving the country or detention. He is also not entirely sure if we will end up moving to Germany...still kinda up in the air about that. I will try to answer questions but our talk was not very long as he was just doing a layover for a little while.

[JustAnotherGen]

1. he lied to you

He had given you this information that you shared on January 28th
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10028552269

6. My boyfriend
Was born in Germany to a German mother and a permanently stationed US Army father. His father died in Germany and his mother and him came to the states when he was 14 and he then got his citizenship when he was 15. He is now 54 but I fear that they may send him back or force him to give up his German citizenship. I also fear that if he had to go back that by then I would not be allowed to leave because common people will have lot that right. I would rather be dead then go through being here without him.

[JustAnotherGen]

2. Context for anyone flying by

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=8667463

[cwydro]

76. Heard anything new on this?

Seems awfully quiet.

[JustAnotherGen]

77. I haven't seen anything

And I hope she is okay.

[Else You Are Mad]

4. I had that feeling from the start of Doreen's posts..

I didn't have the heart to/it was none of my business to make accusations about people I don't know, but lying was the only option. More likely, it was his mother that lied to him rather than him lying to her. As a 14 year old kid, who would question their mom?

[DrDan]

16. yep - felt same way

[bunnies]

19. His mother died when he was 16.

But somewhere between here and Iceland this boyfriend discovered the truth? Hard to believe. Occams Razor. Someone's a liar.

[cwydro]

49. The style of writing is rather familiar.

Methinks.

[bunnies]

53. Agreed.

I bet the goddamn landlord is behind this somehow!

[cwydro]

54. I needed a laugh today!

I literally laughed out loud.

[salin]

64. needed this clue

to get in on the joke. Thanks.

[bettyellen]

66. very good catch.

[PoliticAverse]

3. Best wishes to you, but I think he isn't giving you the complete, true, story yet. n/t

[procon]

5. Be very careful, you're in a very vulnerable time and you don't want to make

any impulsive or emotional decisions that you might regret later on. Proceed slowly and with great caution only after weighing all the possibilities, both good and bad.

[Ilsa]

21. What procon said. Good luck. nt

[obamanut2012]

6. lolz

TTW did this with way more panache.

[FSogol]

7. Oh the drama!

[DRoseDARs]

8. You know, you CAN read these threads with a critical eye without posting like a dick.

Lots of other posters did this with way more tact.

[obamanut2012]

10. Not a dick, but thanks

[DRoseDARs]

11. You're welcome.

And black women give the best side-eye/eyeroll.

[starshine00]

20. Kandi

yes I agree because not only is this woman dealing with a lot of fear she is also dealing with possible duplicity. No need to pile on to what is probably very trying right now.

Of course if there was an inciting a riot charge I can see where the incentive to deport is coming from being he's on the wrong side of the political spectrum right now.

People will do and say unbelievable things. Technically three is the age of recordable memory so to him the American is his father as far as he is concerned, he may have his reasons for not sharing that. I don't know.

[cwydro]

47. Wonder where she went?

Her threads were hilarious.

[MineralMan]

9. Well, it looks like this may take some time to resolve.

The new information makes it more complicated than described earlier.

[LexVegas]

12. Even cooler story, bro. nt

[Spider Jerusalem]

13. Bullshit

Germany doesn't allow dual citizenship. If your boyfriend exists and is a US citizen then he isn't a German citizen and can't "go back" to Germany because he's not a citizen. And if his mother lived in Germany and not the US and his "American stepfather" married her in Germany and died in Germany then she wasn't a dual citizen (which requires residency in the US, acquisition of citizenship by marriage ended in 1922) and you can't "come to the country at 14" and become a citizen almost immediately, because there's a residency requirement (which has existed since forever and was in place under the immigration laws that were in effect in 1976). This story has so many holes and absurdities that it's ridiculous; either it's completely made up, or this "boyfriend" was never a US citizen in the first place.

[Else You Are Mad]

23. My cousins are dual citizens with Germany..

But they were born in the US to my uncle and his wife, a legal resident in the US but still a German resident, so dual citizenship is possible. That said, the fact pattern the OP and prior posts outline make no sense. If she was lied to, my heart goes out to her. If she was complicit, posting such non-sense hurts the immigrants and their cause.

[treestar]

24. Maybe the military posting allowed her to become a citizen?

Serving in the military may have allowed her to count the time as residence in the US - after all he was a US citizen and she could not live here even if she wanted to - I think military has a lot of exceptions to the rules in that regard.

The best theory though seems to be he is an overstay illegally here lying about it as he doesn't want people to know.

[Retrograde]

48. Visa overstay is my first guess as well

While people tend to think "Mexican/Central American" when they hear undocumented alien, I suspect there are quite a few Europeans who enter under the visa waiver program (all they have to do is show up with a valid passport from a country on the list) and they're admitted as a visitor, few questions asked. Then they sort of forget to leave when their visas expire, but being European few question their presence.

I know one person from the UK who did a variation of this for over a decade: she worked as a consultant, had her fees sent to her bank in the UK, arranged to be out of the country for a few days when her visa expired (she made enough that a quick jaunt to Canada wasn't a hardship), then back to start the cycle anew. Eventually an immigration official noticed the pattern, warned her, and the next time she tried to enter the US she was detained, deported, and barred from future entry. Since she was passionate about the US, knowledgeable about its history and politics, and appeared to be active in current events I just assumed she was a citizen, or at least a green card holder.

[treestar]

60. Daily Show had a really funny skit

on the hardships of illegal immigrants from the UK.

http://www.latintimes.com/canadian-immigrants-lead-world-illegal-us-visa-overstays-according-first-ever-dhs-367906

And many illegals are Canadian!

I have a cousin who had two kids by an Irish guy here illegally, working illegally and the whole bit. Very conservative but of course when it affects her, suddenly an issue looks different.

[DFW]

29. Germany doesn't allow dual citizenship? Tell that to my dual citizen German-American daughters

One of them is the highest-paid attorney in her field in Germany, so be prepared for a lot of pointed arguments and you had better have a lot of facts no one else knows.

In the case of parents of two different nations, and the children being registered as citizens of both countries at birth, both the USA and Germany have been perfectly cool with my daughters' dual citizenship since they were born in Germany in the 1980s. They get both their German and their American passports renewed without any problem on a regular basis. The authorities of both countries are aware of their citizenship in the two countries, and none has voiced any objection. One lives in New York City and the other lives in Frankfurt am Main--for now, anyway. She wouldn't mind moving back to New York, but you don't tell a job offer of mid six figures (at age 32!) to fuck off just because it's in Frankfurt. For that kind of dough, you can take your weekends in New York if you want to. The German passport removes any obstacle to an EU work permit, so it's a priceless asset for her.

The fact the the boyfriend here turns out to have born in Germany to two German parents is the game changer. Any automatic claim to American citizenship in that case vanishes in a puff of smoke.

[Spider Jerusalem]

31. Germany doesn't allow dual citizenship except from birth.

If you acquire another citizenship in any other way you cease to be a German citizen. (And I doubt your claim, as well. "Highest paid attorney in her field"? Sure. Whatever. Irrelevant to anything at all if that field isn't immigration and nationality law...unless you like an excuse to boast, which you seem to.)

[DFW]

32. The claim is valid.

But, like you said, she is not in the immigration field. However, she is extremely thorough (which is why I pointed out her status), and this extends to all her personal paperwork as well. Germany also allows dual citizenship for immigrant minors joining resident foreign-born parents up to age 18, but then they must choose. However, you blanket statement that Germany does not allow dual citizenship was false, as you later acknowledged. I don't what part of Germany you live in, but here in the Rheinland, they make sure any foreigner or dual citizen knows the rules in no uncertain terms. My Colombian-American colleague got his German citizenship after age 50, by the way, and was not asked by the Germans to give up his Colombian citizenship, which he still retains.

[Spider Jerusalem]

33. I already acknowledged it in a previous post on the same subject.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=8667913

This is specifically some weird claim of someone born in Germany to two German parents who naturalised in the US yet is somehow a "dual citizen", which isn't possible (hence the statement "Germany doesn't allow dual citizenship" is entirely true as it applies here).

[DFW]

34. That is a different context.

In which case no argument. Two German parents and a German place of birth constitutes one weak argument indeed for obtaining US citizenship. Then, marriage and residence become necessary pre-requisites. My sister-in-law, a native of Japan, was required to take out US citizenship for my brother to maintain his security clearance in Washington. She resented it, but did it anyway (as if a piece of paper made her or him less of a security risk).

[Spider Jerusalem]

35. Yes, but also German citizenship is considered lost if a German citizen with two German parents...

naturalises as a citizen of another country. (And citizens of other countries who become German citizens are required to renounce their prior citizenship.) The only case in which Germany allows lifelong dual citizenship is in the case of someone born in Germany to parents one of whom was a German citizen; in that case you're allowed to retain the citizenship inherited by birth, but not otherwise.

[DFW]

36. I will take that up with my Colombian colleague

As far as I know, he was not asked to give up his Colombian citizenship. If he didn't tell the Germans about it, that is another story entirely, but they did grant him German citizenship recently, and without demanding any residence or language skill, neither of which he was in any position to provide.

[Spider Jerusalem]

37. ...

In certain cases, German law allows people to hold another citizenship along with their German citizenship. This particularly applies to the following groups of people:

Children with a German and foreign parent, or a parent holding two citizenships, acquire all parent citizenships by virtue of the principle of descent.
According to § 7 StAG (German Citizenship Act), ethnic German resettlers and their family members (admitted along with them) do not have to surrender their previous citizenship when they acquire German citizenship.
Germans who accept the citizenship of another EU country or Switzerland no longer automatically lose their German citizenship.
Germans who acquire another citizenship upon request, and who have previously been issued with a permit to retain their German citizenship according to § 25 StAG.

If your "Colombian colleague" became a German citizen he would have been required to renounce his Colombian citizenship as part of the process. The only exceptions are for EU/Swiss citizens and citizens of countries that don't allow renunciation of citizenship.

[DFW]

58. Intriguing question. I will follow up on it.

§ 7 says:
Spätaussiedler und die in den Aufnahmebescheid einbezogenen Familienangehörigen erwerben mit der Ausstellung der Bescheinigung nach § 15 Abs. 1 oder Abs. 2 des Bundesvertriebenengesetzes die deutsche Staatsangehörigkeit.

This refers to ethnic Germans (and their descendants) of the dispora of previous centuries recently on the receiving end of discrimination or expulsion orders (e.g. the Transylvanian Saxons, the Volga Germans, the Sudeten Germans, in general, the "Vertriebenen" of the Bundesvertriebenengesetz) presenting proper documentation for "returning home" to Germany. As my colleague does not fall under this category (Vertrieben, i.e. sent out/expelled from the area their ancestors had settled in), paragraph 7 wouldn't have been applied. None of his family has been expelled from either Colombia or California. Nor have they been harassed there due to their German ethnicity.

I haven't reviewed all paragraphs of the statute, but the clause of "one grandparent German, you're German" obviously exists somewhere, as he has shown me his German passport. If he has retained his Colombian passport, he has done so with the blessing of the German authorities, as he wouldn't have been given his German passport if turning in his Colombian passport was a requirement for obtaining it.

By the way, this seems to be common practice in a few EU countries. Not only did my wife's NY friend obtain her Irish passport as a second passport, a Colorado woman I know who wanted to move to Brussels without any justification other than a whim, found out her grandfather had left Luxembourg as a baby in March of 1900. Luxembourg law says you can obtain a Luxembourg passport as a second nationality if at least one Luxembourg-born grandparent can definitively be shown to have still been in Luxembourg after January 1, 1900. She did the research, and found the necessary documentation in the archives of the Grand Duchy. It took a year, but sure enough, she got her Luxemboug passport without having to give up her USA passport, and is now living in Brussels with full EU legitimacy.

[Mr. Ected]

42. I am a dual citizen (German/American)

Born in the USA to a German mother and American father.

Raised in the USA.

Mother applied for German citizenship for myself and my brother in 1976, when I was 16. Received my Staatsangehoerigkeit soon thereafter.

Applied for and received a German passport via the Atlanta consulate in 1996.

My first son was born in 1997 in the USA. We applied for, and obtained, German citizenship for him.

Moved to Germany in 1998 and entered as a German citizen, providing ample proof of my dual American citizenship at the time.

Lived in Germany (and Holland) as a German citizen from 1998 through 2005.

In 2002, our second son was born in Holland. We applied for, and obtained, German citizenship for him.

Returned to the States in 2005 as an American citizen with both of my dual citizen sons.

Odd that this is not possible.

[Spider Jerusalem]

45. It isn't except in rare cases

German Nationality Act (NB section 8: a foreigner on becoming naturalised as a German citizen shall give up previous citizenship, and section 25: A German citizen loses German citizenship on becoming a naturalised citizen of another country.) The only way to have dual German citizenship is to have two citizenships from birth.

https://www.bmi.bund.de/SharedDocs/Gesetzestexte/EN/Staatsangehoerigkeitsgesetz_englisch.pdf?__blob=publicationFile

[Mr. Ected]

51. Apparently, then, my brother and I had two citizenships from birth

My mother simply didn't officially legitimize the German citizenship until I turned 16.

I remember that, at the time, there was a small window of opportunity for her to pursue this for us.

[NCTraveler]

14. I am very interested in this story and have read your previous ops.

That said, sometimes things happen a little too fast in real time and stories get muddled.

Please hold off for a couple of days until things are more clear. What is happening to immigrants is horrifying. Lets not make light of the realities happening to many people by way of embellishment.

I so wish you and yours the best.

[Doreen]

15. Thank you,

I am holding off of this for a couple of days as I have people declaring he is lying and I know he is not. They talk about what is happening can't because it is against the law. Are they under the illusion that this administration is doing everything according to the law? I will be talking on DU still but not this subject.

[NCTraveler]

17. I really do hope you follow up on this subject at some point.

As you know, we are a question first kind of crowd, overall.

My heart goes out to you and yours. I wish you all the best and hope you follow up.

[Doreen]

18. Yes, I will follow up in a few days.

Again, thank you.

[PoliticAverse]

22. "I have people declaring he is lying and I know he is not." - how do you "know" that?

You just indicated that he told you important new information on his birth history on the phone from
Iceland which he apparently didn't tell you before during the year and a half you've been dating him.

[Pachamama]

27. How do you know that he is telling you the truth?

Seriously....how do you know? So you have been with him for 1 1/2 years. I have a friend who was with a man for 5 years. Turns out he was married and she never knew till she ran into him with the wife in another city by accident. He lived in another state and they met up monthly and he stayed for a week each month with her. He told her he traveled a lot on business.

I am not meaning to be harsh but there are so many holes and sudden wild new twists to the story he tells you that it stinks to high hell. From the beginning, the idea that any US citizen would be called in by ICE made no sense. They have no jurisdiction. I responded to your first original thread and pointed this out. Then all these new twists and turns. Now he is in Iceland on way to Germany? Biological dad died on Autobahn? Adopted dad died when he was 7 and his mom also?

He said he was a US citizen - did you ever see his passport or ask for it? He said he was a German Citizen? Did you ever see that passport? If you did see either (I hope you saw one) - I recommend all women (and men) see the official ID atleast once during 1 1/2 years of sleeping with someone.

And I am sorry - I am very deeply involved for decades with people in the environmental movements including Rainforest Action Network and was part of the group that organized when Woody Harrelson climbed the Golden Gate Bridge and I had even been trained by the Ruckus Society in my 20's over in Berkeley. I know the lawyers that help people when arrested at protests and I can tell you that what you are saying about him and his arrests and how this was handeled - just doesn't sound very plausible.

Here is a really hard question - has he asked you for money? Have you been supporting him financially during the last 18 months?

Doreen - your fairly new to DU and there is nothing wrong with posting and reaching out. As you can see from my own previous replies to you yesterday and also many others, DU is a caring place. But we also have many smart people here, especially a lot of longtime DUers and we also live in a time where there is so much crazy misinformation on Internet and yes, there are cons in the world and people who con people. I am assuming you are legit. But as a woman reaching out to another woman, I'm also going to cut to the chase and tell you that life can really suck and there are bad people who lie and con and play gullible people. And I hope that isn't what has happened to you. But everything about this story smells of a scam from this man you obviously believe and care about. And I suggest you be very very careful. And if you haven't seen his passports - I suggest you ask him to send photos per his smartphone immediately to you. Especially before you get on a plane to go join him. Or send him money.

Good luck...be careful and watch out.

[JustAnotherGen]

38. All of this - excellent

This in particular:

But everything about this story smells of a scam from this man you obviously believe and care about. And I suggest you be very very careful. And if you haven't seen his passports - I suggest you ask him to send photos per his smartphone immediately to you. Especially before you get on a plane to go join him. Or send him money.

I didn't meet my husband until I was 36. There are bad "guys" out there. They exist.

[PoliticAverse]

39. Excellent advice. n/t

[cwydro]

46. Well and kindly stated.

Something seems a bit off.

[VMA131Marine]

25. If your boyfriend was naturalized he would have a certificate to prove it.

I know as I have one myself (dual US/UK). I took the test in 1985. At the time, it was 10 questions administered orally at the county courthouse. Later, there was a swearing in ceremony by a judge in the same courthouse. There are copies of these documents so you can always request one if you lose the original.

Did he never get a US Passport? That's automatic proof of US citizenship. Why would Germany take him if he doesn't have a German Passport? And why would he agree to leave the country if he has US citizenship? It's a lot harder to get in than to not get kicked out. My guess is he was never naturalized, but something about this story stinks.

[DFW]

30. Germany is looser granting citizenship to people of German parentage or ancestry.

A guy I know from northern California got freaked out by all the US Government spying (Cheneybush era stuff) and high taxes (he is well-off, too). He found that a grandfather of his emigrated from Germany to Colombia in 1914. He got the documentation together, and when he found the name of the boat and the date it sailed, it was the last bit of info the Germans required to grant him German citizenship. He renounced his US citizenship, kept his Colombian citizenship (from his dad), and now has a legal residence in the tax haven of Gibraltar (!!), a de-facto residence in Geneva, Switzerland, and now travels problem-free throughout the EU as a German. He has never lived in Germany and speaks no German. Go figure.

[treestar]

44. You can get an Irish passport without having been there

if your parent or even grandparent was born there. If you claim it before your children are born, even the great grandchild of a person born in Ireland can get it.

My theory is they saw more emigration than immigration, and so are willing to embrace their descendants abroad to a greater degree than we are.

[DFW]

50. I know. A friend of ours from New York did just that

She is of Irish, Czech, and Finnish ancestry. The only non-American passport she ever requested was the Irish one, which she said was easy to obtain. I don't know if she has ever used it.

I am of Eastern European mongrel ancestry, and some of the "countries" from which my ancestors left aren't even on the map any more. Not that I care a lot (so far, anyway). I have survived on my US passport and my German residence permit up to now, and probably will leave it at that unless I join some friends down in Switzerland later on. My wife is as German as she can be, with a family genealogy documented back to the year 1473. Her family and roots are here, and she doesn't want to leave. Our girls feel at home just about anywhere in the English- or German-speaking world, which is what we tried to raise them as.Their native language remains German, which is what they speak to each other when they are alone or with us, but they automatically switch to English if they are in the company of Anglos who don't understand German.

[treestar]

59. I read somewhere Switzerland had a retirement visa

which many countries have, but of course the US does not - meaning retirees from Canada who want to live in Florida have a hard time.

I love learning other languages - Spanish is the one I know most, and I'm not really even fluent in that. I can read it mostly but speaking I get stuck for words!

[DFW]

65. I haven't even looked into that

But if I/we do, I don't anticipate any problem. I speak French, Italian and Swiss German, and have enough in my retirement account to support a modest lifestyle, even at Swiss prices.

[flamingdem]

26. Maybe he had the right to US citizenship but never got around to getting a passport

In which case he could get kicked out, I imagine, and will have to apply from Germany.

[Bear Creek]

28. Earlier

[link:http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2015/08/donald-trump-immigration-birthright-citizenship|
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2015/08/donald-trump-immigration-birthright-citizenship
The republicans have been kicking this idea about for the last few years. Wouldnt be surprised if they did try to implement it.

[PoliticAverse]

40. Not just the Republicans that have discussed the idea of ending birthright citizenship...

&feature=share

[Bear Creek]

43. Implications

They could deny citizenship to anyone At any time.

[treestar]

61. Plus second and third generation illegal aliens

Just such a stupid idea.

[Bear Creek]

63. Not just

Anyone they do not like is no longer a citizen. Well actually there is a reason, if they can say people that owe money are no longer citizens and no longer have the protection of the consistitution they then can become property.

[TrekLuver]

41. If he is lying to Doreen that is her business to deal with...not ours. We don't know them or

anything about their relationship. No matter what the background...optically this is just not good. People being forced out or else you have to go to a detention center? Unless this man is a "dangerous criminal"...this is a very slippery slope. We all see what they are doing...deporting any and everybody that they can as directed by Trashpot Trump.

[jodymarie aimee]

52. Doreen

please use paragraphs, this is really hard for older people to read. Or maybe any people.

[cwydro]

55. This thread is making my day!

The responses are cracking me up!

[Doreen]

56. OK, I will try. I am horrible at structuring sentences.

[cwydro]

57. Any updates today?

Curious.

[salin]

67. I just tracked back from this thread to the others

hole-y moly.

[Doreen]

68. No, our government is on vacation until Tuesday...Maybe Tuesday night.

[cwydro]

75. Well, keep us posted with any new info.

Enquiring minds and all that...

[WinkyDink]

62. Nobody's deporting a GERMAN, okay? (Paragraphs are good. J/S.)

[NotThisTime]

74. Don't count on it, it was all over our news that local Irish immigrants are very worried as well.

[LanternWaste]

78. Accurate punctuation is also as good as paragraphs.

Accurate punctuation is also as good as paragraphs. Just sayin', part II.

[EarthFirst]

69. Your boyfriend was singled out on the manifest halfway through his itinerary?

Mid-itinerary from GER > USA immigration flagged your boyfriend in Iceland?

Or is Iceland > Germany his return after being denied at immigration in the US?

[Doreen]

70. He just did a layover in Iceland on his way to Germany. Had nothing to do with the situation.

He likes Iceland, that's all.

[Calista241]

71. That's just weird.

There are many orders of magnitude more flights to mainland Europe than there are to Iceland.

And who wants to have a layover in an airport? That sounds like pure torture to me.

[Kimchijeon]

72. Well I'm sorry to hear about your situation Doreen

As you've explained it he left to avoid the bullshit and drama, can't blame anyone for that.

Hope things get straightened out soon for him, sorry to hear you are going through such stress.

[Doreen]

73. Thank you.