Is the US still a democracy?

[Locut0s]

I feel this is one of those nebulous questions that can't necessarily be answered when you are in the thick of a complex crisis such as this. It's something that is more apparent in hind sight, when you can see the forest for the trees. There is no hard line one necessarily crosses that demarcates a true democracy from a system that no longer is one. There are grey areas of authoritarian semi democracies where people technically have the ability to overthrow an authoritarian government via democratic processes such as the popular vote, but where the cards are heavily stacked against them.

The above being said I none the less am I'm interested in asking the overly simplified question, do you still have a democracy. Obviously you may elaborate in the comments.

12 votes, 2 passes | Time left: Unlimited
	I'm willing to say for now yes. But it's heavily under attack and at risk of being lost.
	4 (33%)
	I'm willing to say no we have definitely lost it. But I hope we may fight to regain it.
	5 (42%)
	I'm unwilling to say yet. It's teetering on the edge. The situation is too fluid and complex to say.
	3 (25%)
	2 DU members did not wish to select any of the options provided.
Show usernames Disclaimer: This is an Internet poll

[captain_democratic]

1. right

as of February 19.2017 America a is still free..

[eniwetok]

2. How can anyone believe the US is a "democracy"?

It was NEVER a democracy. Democracy is rule by the PEOPLE. The US is a dual suffrage system where the states also have suffrage. Of course this is a farce... "states" don't vote... the PEOPLE in them do. So the entire system is a vote weighting scheme. Live in one state... your vote might be 4x greater than another.... leading to the Trump Junta... and a Senate where GOP Senators representing 33 million FEWER people have control.

Our very system disenfranchises DEMS... and they seem determined not to consider major reforms. Of course if they tried... states with 4% of the US population could thwart any amendment.

Perhaps now we can see why when faced with the dysfunctional and reformproof Articles of Confederation... the "framers" started from scratch.

We lack that courage,

[Locut0s]

3. I bet that many countries that you would consider true democracies also struggle...

also struggle with issues of voter representation, gerrymandering, and the like. That being said I agree it's a particularly stark problem in the US even before the Trump era.

[eniwetok]

5. how does one "gerrymander" national elections?

Gerrymandering is only possible where there are winner take all single member districts. While I believe in checks and balances where one chamber represents regional interests... if the second chamber were based on national party elections... it could not be gerrymandered. Our electoral system is simply incapable of measuring the will of the people. True progressives might make up 10-15% of the national population but they can never muster a win in any district... and therefore they are perpetually disenfranchised. In a winner take all system... the majority/plurality election winner "steals" the consent to govern from all those who voted for a losing candidate.

[Wounded Bear]

8. The Electoral College is basically a gerrymander against demographics...

Dems win on demographics. Repubs win on geography.

[eniwetok]

9. The EC was pure politics... designed to give whites in slaves state...

The EC was designed purely for politics... to get whites in slaves states to ratify the Constitution. Here's Madison July 19th 1787 at the Constitutional Convention... saying he's for a popular vote, but...

There was one difficulty however of a serious nature attending an immediate choice by the people. The right of suffrage was much more diffusive in the Northern than the Southern States; and the latter could have no influence in the election on the score of the Negroes. The substitution of electors obviated this difficulty and seemed on the whole to be liable to fewest objections.

[Wounded Bear]

11. I understand that...

and I also understand the the Repubs have been exploiting it to achieve minority rule. Much like gerrymandering of the districts, the EC is gerrymandering of the states by giving the smaller states proportionately more electoral muscle.

[eniwetok]

13. Can't just blame GOPers when Dems are AWOL on democracy

Gerrymandering is different. It games the House districts... and the House is the most "democratic" feature of the Constitution. Since gerrymandering is state based, it doesn't need a constitutional amendment to fix.

The bigger problem with our system... from a democratic perspective, is state suffrage... and to reform that requires an amendment... which to be ratified has to get through an antidemocratic process.

But Dems... not even the vast majority of liberal Dems, want to finally make our system democratic.

[eniwetok]

4. Does the author of the poll even know WHAT DEMOCRACY IS?

One MIGHT think that if there were to ever be reforms to an antidemocratic system... the system that gave us Bush2 and Trump, it would come from the Democratic Party. How wrong they'd be. The Dems... even liberal Dems, don't even have a definition of democracy. If they bothered they'd immediately see through our antidemocratic system. But they don't.

So what does that say about the moral and intellectual bankruptcy of even the most liberal Dems that they can't detect their central cognitive dissonance? And we want the GOP voters to wake up out of their comas when we can't?

[Crunchy Frog]

6. My answer is no.

We no longer have a free press, and haven't for a long time. We no longer have any integrity to our elections.

The candidate and party that wins fewer votes ends up in power, and nobody can even say with any authority how many votes someone got, as our elections are unauditable, while millions of people are being out and out disenfranchised.

I fear that we are going to become even less democratic than we currently are, but I strongly believe that we are already not a democracy.

[eniwetok]

12. demographics makes our system more antidemocratic...

In 1790 the differential between the largest and smallest population state was about 16:1... if memory serves. Today it's 70:1.

Because of state suffrage demographics are making the entire system increasingly antidemocratic. It's to the point that states with about 4% of the US population can block any amendment. So even if an amendment can get out of the Senate... where 18% of the US population gets 52% of the seats... there's virtually no chance we can introduce democratic reforms like abolishing the EC. The system itself sabotages any democratic instinct.

[poli3]

7. Democracy in the US died in 2000

When the Supreme Court conducted a coup in this country. Comey and Chaffetz openly colluding with Russia is just more of the same schtick that republicans have always done going back to raygun working with the iranians during iran-contra.

[eniwetok]

10. It didn't matter what SCOTUS did...

The limited recount Gore wanted still would have given Bush the win.

SCOTUS just let the EC formula do its dirty work.

[Lurks Often]

14. Technically the United States is a constitutional federal republic

and yes, the country is still free and in 4 years the country will go back to the voting booth to elect another President.

[eniwetok]

16. democracy vs republic

Somehow this discussion was poisoned 250 years ago... and now we constantly hear that refrain to defend our antidemocratic system that we're a republic not a democracy as if republics are REQUIRED to be antidemocratic. We in the US simply can't think clearly on this topic. In the most basic terms a "republic" is simply a nation with a written constitution, representative government, no royalty, and runs on democratic principles. And in a perverted way the US has democratic principles... in that states have suffrage. But democracy is about the PEOPLES' suffrage, and when "states" vote... as if "states" vote... it's really people who live there... we end up with the absurdity of the 600k people in WY having the same vote in the Senate as the 39 million in CA. We've been brought up to believe the House makes this all fair, but anyone in CA doesn't vote for all of their 50ish representatives... only the one. So we have a system where 18% of the population gets 52% of the seats in the Senate, and the Senate has a veto over anything coming out of the House plus special powers on nominations and treaties. Combine that with the EC and we can effectively have minority rule.

[eniwetok]

17. not as simple as you claim

In those 2-4 years until the next election Trump and the GOP will do immense damage... because our system permits MINORITY rule. Where in a democratic system HRC would be president... and the Senate would be run by Dems because Dem senators represent 33 million more people that the GOP, instead we have a system outside the control of our own People... and it makes a mockery of the very concept of self-government. If that isn't the epitome of an ANTI-democratic system... what is?

[uponit7771]

15. GERRYMANDERING and VOTER SUPPRESSION NO ... NOT AT ALL !!!

[NurseJackie]

18. Reply hazy try again