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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsTrump: non whites; non Christians; the showers.
Today, for the first time in over a month, I tuned my TV to a "news" station. It was CNN.
Although I spend time online, I somehow missed mentions of the rise of anti-semitism in America. But this morning, watching CNN, reality hit me in the face like a sledge hammer. Until today, I had no idea of the degree to which synagogues and Jewish cemeteries had been defaced in many areas of the country. (I guess my ignorance of what's going on is the price of trying to tune out reality for a while.)
I live in Palm Beach County, Florida where there is a large population of blacks, Hispanics and Jews, which is why this County always votes Democratic.
But to get back to the point. Trump's hatred of Muslims is out in the open for everyone to see. His animosity towards black people is only slightly more subtle. And then there is the claim he made that "I am the least anti-Semitic person person you've ever seen."
I know a few Muslims, and quite a few blacks and Jews. The Muslims I know are American citizens and didn't vote for Trump. None of the blacks I know voted for Trump. But two of the Jews I know did vote for him.
Since being elected, Trump has appointed Steve Bannon, a notorious white supremacist, as his chief of staff. And he's appointed Jeff Sessions, a lifelong bigot, as his Attorney General. These appointments are statements that are impossible to misread. The words that come out of Trump's mouth are meaningless bullshit. His appointments are solid demonstrations of who he is.
Earlier today, I mentioned this to a Jewish acquaintance who voted for Trump. He took offense at what I was saying. For some unimaginable reason, he didn't relate Trump's ascendance to power, with the rise of anti semitism in the country. That's when I totally lost it. I asked him if he'd "get it" as he was being marched to "the showers."
He hung up on me and I doubt if we'll ever speak again. But I firmly believe that Trump has opened the door to the unspeakable horrors that we've seen in the not too distant past.
Without our strong, sustained opposition, I really believe that Muslims, blacks, Jews, and every other religious or racial minority will soon be (or actually are) in dire danger. And yes, I know how extreme that sounds. But then, what sane, intelligent German citizen could have foreseen, back in the early 1930s, what their country was about to become? Many of them didn't go along with it. But it didn't take long before the reality that descended on them became apparent. Their speaking out would result in the death of their families and themselves.
To anyone who believes "It can't happen here," wake up. Tens of millions of your fellow Americans voted for the monstrosity in the White House and the criminal enterprise called the Republican Party. If you believe that these people have any conscience, "patriotism," or any other so called American value, don't be surprised when you find youself being crushed like like a roach by an iron boot.
louis-t
(23,288 posts)but hate Jews.
KittyWampus
(55,894 posts)bravenak
(34,648 posts)muntrv
(14,505 posts)Ilsa
(61,692 posts)to be making headway on their own, repugs are willing to cheat and try and create it on their own. They write and sell stupid books promoting it. Growing conflict is their expertise and cash crop.
GusBob
(7,286 posts)"They thought they were free" by Milton Mayer
you can have my copy if you wish
KittyWampus
(55,894 posts)Doreen
(11,686 posts)Damn it! History of Germany is just about being repeated exactly!! I was never good at history but I see the close comparison to what happened then and what is happening now. I am only high school educated and I have a learning disability so why can i get it and those who are smarter than me can't?
Cyrano
(15,031 posts)conscience and common sense rather than (so called) intelligence. Also, "smarter" doesn't necessarily mean "more aware of reality." I have a cousin who is a member of Mensa. He has a head full of facts, he is capable of instantly grasping and evaluating new information, he knows the year of the Norman invasion of England, and he would probably win a million bucks on "Jeapordy."
And he voted for Trump. Regardless of his "intelligence," he was incapable of recognizing that he was opting to put an ignorant, incompetent buffoon in the White House.
Doreen
(11,686 posts)number of voted for Trump. I guess the "common sense" factor is the issue here. My common sense told me to vote for Hillary.
Bernardo de La Paz
(48,988 posts)yuiyoshida
(41,831 posts)n2doc
(47,953 posts)yuiyoshida
(41,831 posts)Jerry Brown said he would protect the people of California, lets hope that he keeps his word.
We should ALWAYS worry. If we wait until the signs are beyond the obvious nature they already are we will have lost.
We will not see internment camps. We will not see showers.
What we are going to see is a class system unlike anything we have ever seen before. White people or rich will have access to everything that they need and can afford. Meanwhile poor and POC will see avenues of opportunity completely sewn shut. Education is the key here and as they destroy our public education and changing over to a voucher system you will see the already large achievement gaps turn into chasms. From there you will see the people able to afford good education become the alpha of the country while the poor and POC fall into terrible poverty and eventually in my opinion self extinguish, or at least that's what i believe this brand of fascism and authoritarianism is gunning for.
ACA is going to be repealed and reformed with some sort of voucher system that requires money in order to get healthcare which will further be an unbearable burden on the poor, lower middle class which disproportionately affects POC.
Automation in the workplace will further exacerbate the problem for the poor and the lower middle class by taking jobs away from them making it even harder for them to succeed in this "Here's a coupon for whatever common good you require" reality.
There are two colors that matter in this New American Order. White and green if you have enough to pay your way through.
yuiyoshida
(41,831 posts)See the post above.
Phoenix61
(17,000 posts)There were the haves and the have nots. The middle class is a pretty recent invention. Guess the repubs aren't too happy about that. Short sighted though. Poor people don't buy much.
Cyrano
(15,031 posts)And so right on topic.
Dear Yui, I'm so sorry I wasn't online last week and missed the chance to send you a valentine heart. You always get right to the heart of matters.
yuiyoshida
(41,831 posts)They only last awhile anyway, but thanks...ne?
gratuitous
(82,849 posts)Your friend may have invested a lot of his self-identity in his vote for Trump. Admitting to himself that he made a mistake is going to be tough. Conceding that to others is going to be even tougher, especially in our highly polarized political climate. Your comment about being marched off to the showers may have been too much; I know from my own experience that I will pop off unexpectedly when confronted with stubborn ignorance like your friend was exhibiting.
Let's hope that he takes a moment to look around and see the prejudice building, whether it's the daily bomb threats made to Jewish community centers or the vandalism of the Jewish cemetery in St. Louis. Evil forces have been unleashed and given permission to act out by President Trump and his administration. The signs are there for those who have eyes to see. May the scales fall from your friend's eyes soon. Be gracious when he gets back in touch, and apologize for any offense you may have given him.
Cyrano
(15,031 posts)Last edited Tue Feb 21, 2017, 05:02 PM - Edit history (1)
you are being too kind by half. He will not be getting in touch with me, nor I with him. There really are actions that people take in this world that are unforgivable
If my comment about being "marched off to the showers" went too far for him, then he's as much of an imbecile as anyone else who thinks this is over the top. As a matter of fact, it is, to me at least, being what could be called "A Jewish Nazi." That may sound harsh, but it's how I feel about any religious or racial minority who voted for Trump. Ignorance has its limits. And those who tolerate ignorance also has limits.
Evil/insanity like Trump and his ilk must be opposed at the very second it appears. Too many people are ignorant enough to not recognize it until it's too late. So here we are. Up to our necks in evil, with many wondering what we can do about it. And it's all because our country has too many ignorant people like the one we are currently discussing. And they just may turn out to be the death of us all.
gratuitous
(82,849 posts)But if your friend gets back in touch with you, it will almost certainly be because he's taken a different view of things, more in line with yours (and mine). I'm just saying to be prepared when it happens. Being gracious doesn't cost anything.
If your erstwhile friend never reconnects, more's the pity, but good luck to him. His life isn't going to get any easier the longer he stubbornly clings to whatever it is in him that makes President Trump look acceptable.
JustAnotherGen
(31,798 posts)jmg257
(11,996 posts)"Muslims, blacks, Jews, and every other religious or racial minority will soon be (or actually are) in dire danger",
what do you think will be accomplished by "strong, sustained opposition"?
I mean - that's it?...the notion that the next 4 years will boil down to a constant struggle of the defenders of the oppressed vs. trump and his minions trying to enact a final solution on every non-white, non-christian??
Sounds like it will go WAY beyond protesting in the street...it would have to.
Holy shit - not good.
Cyrano
(15,031 posts)you think my op is insane or, ... what??
You are not being clear as to whether you are objecting to my opinion, or whether you are opposed to the concept I've expressed.
Ther's no way I can sensibly reply to your post unless you can more clearly state you're meaning or what you're talking about.
I don't mean to be insulting here, but I just don't get what you're saying.
jmg257
(11,996 posts)And how effective 'sustained opposition', as it exists now (i.e. protests), would be in preventing an administration SO FAR GONE as to even attempt such a holocaust in violation of every law/every shred of decency we have. And considering an administration supported by 'tens of millions of like-minded people devoid of conscience or values'??
Holy shit.
It would take much more than the opposition that we are currently up to/considering.
onenote
(42,684 posts)That probably isn't a popular position in this thread, but as an American Jew, I would never, ever, make a comment to a fellow Jew, even one whose politics are fundamentally at odds with mine, along those lines. And it is something that a non-Jew has absolutely no business saying to a Jew.
I've seen it from both sides. I've had non-Jews tell me I'm foolish for opposing restrictions on Muslim immigration and refugees, because "of all people" I should be concerned about the danger these people pose. Well, I can make my own decisions about who poses a danger to me and what that danger is. And, quite frankly, I feel I have more to fear, in terms of threats to my religious liberty and freedom from discrimination, from the enablers of anti-Semitism the current president has elevated to his inner circle than I do from Syrian refugees or from the supposed threat of "Sharia law."
Similarly, a non-Jew equating the Trump administration with the Nazis and suggesting that left unchecked Trump will have Jews marched off to the gas chambers and any Jew who voted for Trump is themselves a Nazi by extension has crossed the line. Maybe you're convinced that a new Holocaust is a real risk. But I think most Jews view that as hyperbole. There are very good reasons why American Jews shouldn't support Trump or republicans in general. But those reasons don't require end of the world hyperbole. And they don't require the argument, which also is hyperbole, that repubs love Israel but hate Jews. Maybe that's accurate for some, but its no more accurate as a generalization than the statement that progressives love Jews but hate Israel.
So, you might consider apologizing for going all gas chamber on your friend and instead try to make a case based on your understanding of how Trump's policies aren't good for Jews. How someone who appeals to bigotry by denigrating those who choose to say "seasons greetings" rather than "merry Christmas", who mocks ethnic, religious and other minority groups (including the disabled), in direct contradiction to Jewish tradition of having an open door (at Passover we invite in "all who are hungry... all who are needy" , who adopts policies that will only exacerbate tensions between Israel and its neighbors and between Jews and Muslim, is not someone who a Jew should be supporting.
The Polack MSgt
(13,186 posts)Edited to add:
But I still believe that cutting off all contact with Trumpsters is a valid course of action.
onenote
(42,684 posts)And why would we ever give up on millions of voters? Did/does Trump's support include a large number of "deplorables"? Yes. Does it make sense to write every one of them off as a deplorable? Do you think that calling all of them names will make them more open to hearing the reasons why they should reconsider their support for him?
If all we do is talk to ourselves, we make a very big mistake.
Cyrano
(15,031 posts)All I can say is that your post is one that could have been written by Bill O'Reilly.
i will not reply to your accusations, attacks, and your words that "no Jew would say this."
I stand behind everything I've said in the OP. If you disagree, attack my view of Trump, not me.
And that view is that he is a bigoted, ignorant, know-nothing who is perhaps controlled by Bannon (and maybe even Putin who has blackmail material on him). Trump is a deadly danger to democracy and America. And anyone who doesn't understand that lacks the ability to grasp reality.
onenote
(42,684 posts)Bill O'Reilly?
I think you looked in the mirror before responding and got confused.
Again, you're welcome to your hyperbole. Just don't expect everyone to roll over and accept it as having anything to do with actual reality. Actual reality is that Trump is a bigot, that his supporters are bigots, that the principles he stands for are anathema to the principles I was taught as part of my Jewish education. The reality is that he has no clue how to resolve the bitter dispute between Israel and its neighbors and between many Jews and many Muslims and, in fact, is hell bent on making those disputes deeper and more difficult to resolve.
But that doesn't mean he's got a plan to create death camps. And like it or not, that's what you have suggested.
Cyrano
(15,031 posts)But are we supposed to sit around wait to see whether or not he is capable of creating death camps?
I for one would rather defeat this concept/administration in its cradle.
And by the way, I wasn't referring to Israel and it's neighbors. I was discussing Trump and his danger to America.
onenote
(42,684 posts)A war that will be a danger to the US.
jmg257
(11,996 posts)That goes WAY BEYOND trump's fucking with our democracy to get elected...no matter who was/is helping him.
Once again - holy shit.
Behind the Aegis
(53,939 posts)As usual, it falls on deaf ears, because who are you to "Jewsplain" to someone who isn't Jewish! How dare you! You must be a right-winger! Typical how someone who does something fucking offensive as hell turns it into "s/he's really the victim in all this."
We have to realize we will continue to get it from both sides and many will delight in blaming us for the "president", all 2.2% of us.
Perhaps you should have praised his leadership (paraphrasing Scary Spice).
HopeAgain
(4,407 posts)Trump's son in law is Jewish, his daughter has converted to Judaism. He has a number of Jewish people in his staff, including the most Fascist talking of them all, (well maybe tied with Gorka), Stephen Miller, is Jewish by birth (I think he worships Trump as his Religion).
These people they are ALL against is Muslims. They might lock up Mexicans in encampments before it's all over, but I really wonder how far the Islamophobia will go. There is such a clear thread of anti-Islam rhetoric among these people, some of whom liken it to a holy war.
Maru Kitteh
(28,333 posts)by making too much of a fuss as they continue to exercise their newfound power and popularity to terrorize Jews.