I think progressives need to understand Trump voters. No, really.

[guillaumeb]

Progressives need to understand that not all Trump voters are racists.

But they voted for one.

Progressives need to understand that not all Trump voters are Islamophobes.

But they voted for one.

Progressives need to understand that not all Trump voters are rapists.

But they voted for one.

Progressives need to understand that not all Trump voters are serial adulterers.

But they voted for one.

Progressives need to understand that not all Trump voters use bankruptcy as a weapon.

But they voted for one who does.

I know some Trump voters. The ones that I know do not behave like Trump, but in voting for him they rewarded and validated his behavior. So they are equally as guilty.

Feel free to add your own thoughts.

[WomanWhoRoars]

1. Well done

....you nailed it

[guillaumeb]

2. Welcome to DU, WWR.

And thank you. Feel free to add if you wish.

[world wide wally]

3. Not all Trump voters are asshole, but.....

Wait a minute...

[guillaumeb]

4. I do not know all of them.

But judging by the ones that I do know, racism is a relatively common trait.

[geek tragedy]

5. Trump voters lack the same sense of morality and decency as we do.

That isn't to say that none can be persuaded to vote for our candidates.

But, they can't be persuaded on the basis of our moral code--opposition to bigotry, mistreating women, cruelty, and dishonesty.

They're purposefully not very smart in how they go about politics, so you have to go with narrow self-interest appeals (how does this affect people like me?) and emotionalistic appeals that play on their resentments.

Talk about values and what kind of country they want to be are wasted on them. They're an angry rabble.

[guillaumeb]

6. Angry, confused, and thus easily manipulated.

Well said. Narrow self-interest is indeed a core value for them.

[WomanWhoRoars]

7. Thanks

I will share with you though my eye opening experience with ardent Trump supporters last night on FB - they are angry and bitter; which puzzles me due to the fact they won! They don't trust anything the media or the republican establishment says. They only listen to Trump. It was very unsettling for me and reminded me of a cult.

[leftstreet]

9. They take their persecution issues into the voting booth

Yes, very cult like

and horribly sad

[guillaumeb]

10. Their candidate may have won,

but I believe that they see any challenge to their views as a personal attack.

Trump has played on their emotions and he will continue to do so. That way he, and by extension they, can claim to be the victims of political correctness.

[BeckyDem]

8. Do you think the people you know who voted for him understand they voted for a man who

will plunder at every turn? Do you they understand he is unleashing racism/bigotry in a way never seen by any administration in modern times? What did they think was going to happen? A con man who ran a junk phony school, ripped off people was going to help them get a good job? I don't think I will ever understand them. When he said drain the swamp he meant removing all protections.

[guillaumeb]

13. I do not think that Trump is particularly intelligent,

but, like all con men, he recognizes what his victims want to hear. Trump voters really want to believe that there is an easy solution to the economic situation in America. And because they really want to believe, they are willing to suspend their critical thinking. So his slogans appear to be plans.

[BeckyDem]

20. I was curious if the people you know talk about what is happening

with all the protests. Do you think they now regret voting for him or do they still defend their vote?

[guillaumeb]

24. I just talked with a Trump voter over the weekend.

When he brought up Bowling Green, I stopped him and suggested that he do a quick Google search on that. When I mentioned that Ryan's plan for Social Security would really hurt his children and grandchildren he said talking about that was hurting his stomach. So our political conversation ended.

Blindness, ignorance, a combination of both? Perhaps.

[BeckyDem]

26. I think what I understand is some will never see past their own bigotry and we must not pander to

them for votes. Sounds like you are trying to educate as best you can, good for you.

[guillaumeb]

27. It sounds like many of us are doing our best to educate.

But we are fighting true believers in many cases. And they will not blame Trump no matter what he proposes.

[CrispyQ]

11. I have 3 Trumpers in my FB collective.

Two have a mean streak - they are gleeful that dems/liberals are unhappy with the election. I believe that they both hate dems/liberals more than they hate minorities.

[guillaumeb]

15. A ranking of people to hate?

What happens if they are among Trump's victims? Blame Obama?

[CrispyQ]

21. Oh they will find someone to blame, for sure!

Obama would be the preferable choice, but the media is a good one, too. And Kellyann Conway has already whined about those horrible obstructionist dems!

Their hypocrisy is what drives me absolutely nuts.

[guillaumeb]

25. 8 years of GOP obstruction was just fine,

but when the Democrats use the same playbook it is a big problem for GOP voters.

The ultimate in hypocrisy or ignorance.

[njhoneybadger]

12. Lonesome Dove

"You know how it works, Jake.You ride with the outlaw,you die with the outlaw.Sorry you crossed the line.

[guillaumeb]

16. Trump will continue on his way as his supporters become his victims.

And he will blame Obama.

[logosoco]

14. Lately I have been thinking that these supporters

and maybe just some people in general (who may not even vote) equate wealth with goodness. They figure anyone who has money has been doing something right. They are ignoring the fact that the trump family has been defrauding and conning people for a long time. They just see the gilt covered things and assume that person must be good.

[guillaumeb]

17. There is a strain of US Christianity that is termed the prosperity Gospel.

Wealth is seen as a sign of God's favor.

But they must either ignore Trump's actual history or refuse to educate themselves.

[YoungDemCA]

32. The Prosperity Gospel is not just religious, although it might as well be

Considering the way that so many in the US - including (and perhaps especially) many within American evangelical Protestant circles, yes - equate wealth with wisdom, or even holiness, and poverty with laziness, irresponsibility, and even criminality (particularly in the cases of black people, poor, non-white immigrants, single mothers, and women who have abortions - regardless of how desperate or in life-threatening danger they might be).

It doesn't matter how much more the rich participate in despicable, criminal, and socially damaging activities than the poor, as I and many others maintain is the case (and that Donald Trump is among the very worst offenders even by the "standards" of sociopathic, insanely self-entitled rich white men). It certainly doesn't matter that white, right-wing evangelicals are very often among the worst offenders here as well (think of how all of the scandals regarding sex, abuse, fraud, embezzlement, or other forms of corruption that have been discovered among so many of these right-wing megachurch pastors - not to mention all of the shit that's still being kept under wraps! ) What matters is the cruel, bigoted, and incredibly self-serving narrative. "Alternative facts", doncha know?

[Initech]

18. They don't want to understand us. Why should we return the favor?

If they actually took time to understand us, that would be one thing. But they want us gone. Dead. They would prefer we didn't exist. Don't believe me? Check your Twitter and Facebook feeds. They want us gone. They drink out of their "liberal tears" coffee mugs with pride and wear Trump t-shirts. I've seen extreme violence and hatred advocated toward us since the election. They wear their anti PC sentiments with pride. If you dare speak against Trump or any republican, you get called a libtard, a Marxist, out of touch elitist, or worse and run out of town. We don't need to understand them. They need to understand us. We need to turn that line of thinking around.

[guillaumeb]

22. Oh I agree. And my post expands on that.

If you voted for a racist, I do not care what you personally think or do because your Trump vote essentially validated Trump's racism.

[unblock]

19. who said, "the line between voting for a bigot and being one is so fine as to be invisible"?

might have been someone else here on du, not sure.

it's certainly accurate. there are many different forms of bigotry, and just because you don't go around repeating donnie's bigoted statements doesn't mean you're not a bigot. and giving him a free pass straight to the white house despite knowing what a bigot he is certainly doesn't fit neatly into the not being a bigot category, does it?

yeah, i know plenty of republicans who don't like the bigotry but always vote republican because tax cuts or strong america or blah, blah, blah. but to do so knowing he's an overt bigot, that i have a problem with. at what point do you turn a blind eye to it? hell, at what point do you pretend that voting for a bigot is merely turning a blind eye toward it and not affirmatively endorsing it?


that said, *calling* them bigots isn't effective at changing their minds or their votes. but that's another topic entirely....

[guillaumeb]

23. Agreed. Well said.

Voting for a rapist is voting for the rapist's behavior because one cannot separate the act from the actor.

[tblue37]

58. The Rude Pundit said that. nt

[unblock]

59. ah, thanks!

[Kimchijeon]

28. Good points to know

The ones I know don't behave like him but you are right - they rewarded and legitimized this with their vote.

[guillaumeb]

31. Accessories before the fact to his agenda.

And their children and grandchildren will in all likelihood also suffer.

[jrthin]

29. I disagree.

Like attracts like. One could not look at this repulsive man and cast a vote for him unless they identified with him in some way. Decent people just could not vote for this turd.

[guillaumeb]

30. I believe that some voted for him because they want to believe

that the con man will somehow, at least this one time, actually do what he promised to do.

Others, as you pointed out, identify with his positions or ignore some of them. A popular phrase in the Reagan days was: "oh, that is Reagan being Reagan". As if his age and obvious mental issues excused in some way his ignorant racism and nasty ways.

[zipplewrath]

33. I think Conservadems need to "understand" them

It has been the move away from the unions and the lower middle class by the people who thought the democratic party needed to be friendlier to Wall Street and International Trade that brought us to this point. That wasn't progressives.

[guillaumeb]

34. Very true. Trade deals without conditions to protect labor

are just another tool that the 1% use to steal more of the nation's wealth. Democrats were once known as supporters of a strong union movement. And that strong union movement made for a healthier economy.

Except for non-whites.

[geek tragedy]

35. I've never bought this argument. They moved to the Republican party for cultural reasons.

Abortion/contraception
religion
homophobia
guns
resentment of foreigners/immigrants/Muslims/blacks/Latinos/who's next

Indeed, it makes no sense to claim that the people who regularly vote for Wall Street's preferred candidates and job outsourcers are primarily motivated by economics instead of by cultural resentments.

The shift in WWC voters began in the Nixon era as they felt alienated not from Democratic free traders and pro-business types but rather because they hated hippies, civil rights "outside agitators" and desegregation.

See, e.g.,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hard_Hat_Riot

The White Working Class have always been socially regressive, and prone to authoritarianism, male supremacy and ethnonationalism. They've always been part of the problem, not the solution, when it comes to stuff like civil rights.

the unions could have done a lot better for themselves had they resisted the white supremacist power structure by including racial minorities, instead of supporting that same power structure. the ones that did so are the ones that are still around.

[guillaumeb]

38. Agreed on you points about GOP working class voters.

Many unions bought into the business unionism model where labor and management supposedly work together. The de=emphasis on class struggle was one reason that unions were caught unaware when the capitalists renewed the class warfare in the 1980s.

[zipplewrath]

41. The unions managed them

Yes, they were always socially regressive. The unions managed that aspect of their behavior by keeping the focus on the economic issues. But as unions became less significant, through their own success, the union members were swayed into thinking that they didn't need the unions anymore. They have paid the price ever since Reagan for this line of thinking. And their offspring gave up pensions for 401K's. When they woke up and realized what was lost, they found that the democrats had participated as much as the GOP.

The unions were victims of their own success. They got put into labor laws, what they formerly had to fight for in contract negotiations. The more we mandate things like overtime pay, minimum wages, paid time off, etc. the less the worker sees a need for a union. Unions need to deal with this, and to more overtly offer services that the members engage with regularly.

[geek tragedy]

46. a lot of truth to what you write.

I'd also add that one of the big weaknesses in the labor union model of doing things generally is that they're too tied to current employers/industries/categories of jobs and thus tend to be reactive rather than proactive.

As the economy shifted away from a manufacturing base, unions of manufacturing workers lost a lot of mojo.

Who are the real heavyweights in labor today? Those whose members are services workers--government workers, home health aids, teachers, etc.

Of course, the rise of temp agencies and designating workers as 'contractors' played a role in this.

[zipplewrath]

72. Changing model with changing times

Read a great article a good 20 years ago from a union official suggesting ways that unions could change with the time. One of his best was that individual workers should be able to join a union, apart from collective bargaining, and gain services from that union on an individual basis. Access to group health plans, 401K's, retirement plans, etc. They could also consult on workers rights and arbitration, etc. He even suggested that many employers would much rather deal with a "union rep" on various work related issues than directly with employees. The one thing they DIDN'T want to deal with is collective bargaining. But HR departments would love to have an "employee rep" to deal with when developing dress codes, codes of conduct, and the like not to mention the company picnic, bring you kid to work day, etc. They wouldn't have to "recognize" the union in a formal sense in order to deal with them on a case by case basis. Heck, you find today that some of the foreign companies practically beg their employees to form unions so that the company has some entity with which to deal.

[PatsFan87]

36. Trump voters I have talked to largely voted for him because he's something different,

will shake things up, bring change, is an outsider, etc. They have a large distrust of Washington politicians and were clearly willing to look past a lot of gross things to get that shake up. OUR job from now on is to educate and show them that Trump is your slimy Washington politician on steroids, that he's cozy with Wall Street just like he accused Hillary of. That he's cozy with big oil. That he's entrenched in big money and special interests and that he only cares about the one percenters.

[guillaumeb]

39. Trump voters fell for Trump's lies.

But in Trump world, the media, and schools are seen as the tools of the politically correct liberals who supposedly control everything.

[retread]

37. Bullshit. A Trump voter who is not racist or islamophobic or both is an extremely rare beast.

[guillaumeb]

40. I know a few admitted Trump voters. Most of that few are racist.

But my sample size is too small to support a larger conclusion.

[retread]

44. Yet it seems that "sample size" was enough to support your op?

[guillaumeb]

50. My post was about support for a racist, etc being a tacit acceptance

of the racism, etc.

What did you think about the substance of the post?

[retread]

70. Aside from disagreeing with the premise, I found it very thin on substance.

"...support for a racist, etc being a tacit acceptance of the racism."
" Progressives need to understand that not all Trump voters are racists."

Am I to understand from this you are saying because a person accepts, enables, and encourages a racist that is not necessary and sufficient to make that person a racist??

As to "need to understand":
When a man shits in my mess kit I do NOT "need to understand" him.

[guillaumeb]

71. I am saying that voting for Trump is acceptance of all that Trump is.

A willingness to overlook his nastiness, his racism, his complete lack of ethics, his sociopathy.

[agincourt]

42. My feeling on Trump voters,

is that at max, maybe 20% voted on economic issues, mistaking him for someone who gives a shit. That figure might be overly optimistic. Find a candidate with good teflon like Obama was, get out voters who normally don't because they think there's "no difference between candidate". Hil wasn't a bad candidate but she didn't have enough teflon against the RW smear machine, and that attribute is an intangible. Hopefully the Dems will find candidates with that intangible who can catch a break.

[guillaumeb]

43. So you feel that 80% of Trump voters

approve of Trump's hatred? Interesting. I wish I could say that you are incorrect.

[agincourt]

47. Some of this support is a media creation as well

We live in a complicated world that makes people feel stuped. The RW media is appeals much more to vanity than the left and center media. If you believe what we say you are smarter than the gray sheep who believe the "liberal media". You are not "conditioned", you are not "programmed". You are a free thinker like "America's founding fathers". So the RW media tries to make people feel good, more than the left or mainstream. Vanity and emotional security is as much of a factor as hate. A lot of people in the RW media know marketing and advertising more than liberals who study law and history. The RW media nearly always says vote GOP, so of course Trump would benefit.

[FogerRox]

45. Progressive candidates and their campaigns

need to understand not just Trump voters, but all voters.

[guillaumeb]

51. And progressives must try to appeal to all voters,

without pandering to prejudice and hate.

[DiverDave]

48. A few interactions with the morons

When I told them business tax giveaways are roughly 12x the cost of welfare " I don't have a problem with that"
When I bring up any fact, like say, the veterans votes the r's record. "You are a liar"
And if I persist, they get all"I ought to kick your ass"
But when I tell them that wouldn't be a good idea, as I will fight back, strangely, they back down.

So, nope, they are fucking brainwashed. But I sure like seeing them get all red faced.
Because I will no longer be silent.

[guillaumeb]

52. You are putting cold water on their warm right wing fantasies.

Do not try to confuse them with logic.

[Coventina]

49. They knew what they were doing. I will not excuse inexcusable behavior. n/t

[guillaumeb]

53. Yes they did. No matter their professed motivation,

they voted for a person who appeals to racists, and rapists, and thieves...............

[Freedomofspeech]

54. They validated him...

I cannot and will not accept that.

[guillaumeb]

55. Agreed. And you should not.

We must all challenge their views, and their claimed reasons for voting for Trump.

[MineralMan]

56. Trump did not hide his fascistic self.

Anyone who voted for him voted for fascism. Screw that!

[guillaumeb]

60. A good addition. Agreed. eom

[Talk Is Cheap]

57. When you say 'progressives', are you implying...

...progressives, liberals and Democrats, too?

Just wondering....

[guillaumeb]

61. Well, I said progressives.

But definitions vary.

How do you describe yourself?

And no matter how you answer, my point is that, in choosing a candidate, that choice also involves accepting that candidate's choices. Trump is obviously a racist, and a misogynist, and a con man, and a failed businessman posing as a success. So a Trump voter, by the act of voting for him, is saying that all of these Trump traits do not matter to that voter.

[Talk Is Cheap]

62. Well, then I completely don't understand your thread and this post...

The more important question is, how do you describe yourself?

What are you really trying to say here? Help me out here...

[guillaumeb]

63. What is your understanding of the post?

After reading the post, what did you think the point was?

[Talk Is Cheap]

64. I go back to my original question...

Why just 'progressives'? In your mind, are they different than liberals and Democrats or are
you lumping Progressives, Liberals and Democrats into the word 'progressives'?

I am truly not understanding your thread. You have a underlying message
but I am not sure what it is. Can you simply provide your major point?

[guillaumeb]

65. The post IS the major point.

I felt that it was clear.

[Talk Is Cheap]

66. Ok, one last try...

You wrote "Progressives need to understand that not all Trump voters are racists. But they voted for one."

Who is the 'they'?

[guillaumeb]

67. Now I understand.

In each instance that I used, the pronoun they refers to Trump voters.

This point was not raised by any other readers so I feel that my wording was clear.

[Talk Is Cheap]

68. Technically, an English teacher or an Editor would instruct you to fix this...

[guillaumeb]

69. Given that yours was the first comment expressing confusion,

I feel that what I posted was clear to DU readers.