Does anyone here think that right wingers give one fuck about what we think and respect our asses??

[boston bean]

And tailor their policies to reflect our values??

Gimme a break.

I'd empathize with an alligator who bit off my arm before I would empathize with those clueless dangerous stand for everything I'm against assholes.

[still_one]

1. hold on..... one moment.... ummmmmmmmmmmmmmm

NOPE

[KittyWampus]

2. So you're against finding a way to tailor our marketing so that they might accept our policies?

Policies that many often do agree with in polling?


According To Polls Most Americans Are Socialists Like Bernie Sanders
http://www.politicususa.com/2015/06/03/polls-americans-socialists-bernie-sanders.html

[NCTraveler]

5. There are easier groups to go to.

Much easier. Groups that didn't vote. There is no reason to tailor our message to racist enablers. It makes no sense to do so when there are other groups who are already more succeptable to our message.

[KittyWampus]

7. you'd have to point me to some data that backs up that claim that it's easier to market to people

who don't vote as opposed to marketing to a percentage that do.

And your use of "racist enablers" doesn't scare me off.

A lot of people who do vote are clueless and easily influenced.

And marketing is now taking a new approach using personal data off wired social platforms so it's possible to reach more people at a low cost.

[NCTraveler]

11. My use of "racist enables" wasn't meant to sway you in any way.

Interesting you thought is was. Them being acceptable to racism and enablers of it is a fact. My use of it had nothing to do with you.

"And marketing is now taking a new approach using personal data off wired social platforms so it's possible to reach more people at a low cost."

Then let's get some new people to the polls.

[KittyWampus]

19. it's not mutually exclusive. and you haven't provided any data to prove your claim.

And throwing out "Racist enablers" in the rhetoric ends up reflecting on what I'm posting. You may not be consciously aware of why you did it. It's a way to make me seem unreasonable by appealing to emotions. It's a logical fallacy.

[NCTraveler]

23. I never said it was mutually exclusive.

The same could be said about your original comment if that is the direction of your argument. A true fallacy.

Sorry you have taken the fact the are racist enablers so personally. It's simply a fact and I'm not sure how you have come to your argument on it.

And the "facts" you are bringing to the table aren't exclusive to Trump voters, at all. Yet it's the cornerstone of your argument.

[Blue_true]

16. Agree. nt

[uponit7771]

17. +1, the lower hanging fruit is to the left not the right. Fair trade policies and rural outsourcing

... programs for instance.

I don't see the logic in going to China outside of supply chain seeing non surface based shipping is outrageous now.

[KittyWampus]

18. Where is the data? And it's possible to do both. At fairly low cost.

[boston bean]

6. Our policies are kind and caring and not hateful and are helpful to the middle class..

So... ummm they's the problem, not us.

[KittyWampus]

8. You aren't responding to what I actually wrote.

[boston bean]

9. Sure I did.

[Squinch]

10. The reason they don't agree to our faces but do agree in polling is because they are not

against our policies, they are against US.

They hated Obamacare because it was what WE supported. The LOVE themselves some ACA because they think it's something different that needed to be put in place because OUR program was so bad.

We came out against Russians rigging our elections. Russians rigging our elections, FFS! And now they are saying that Russians rigging our elections isn't necessarily a bad thing.

If we reach out to them and try to find common ground we will always find the goal posts moving because what we need to get into our heads is that they can't give a shit about policy. They dislike US and therefore take whatever policy stance they can find that contradicts us.

[leftstreet]

13. Well there ya go

The reason they don't agree to our faces but do agree in polling is because they are not against our policies, they are against US.

perfectly stated

[KittyWampus]

20. There's a percentage that can be effectively manipulated for fairly low cost

using the right marketing techniques.

To prove my point- there's a significant number of people who voted for Obama twice that voted for Trump.

[Squinch]

22. I keep hearing that, but when I've drilled down into it it seems more likely that former

Obama voters stayed home and a whole new crop of people crawled out of the woodwork and voted for Trump.

We can discuss this till we're blue in the face. But there is not a single issue on which I agree with Trump and his cult. In the vast majority of issues, I think that the Trump position is morally wrong.

So the fact is that there is really no ground on which I am likely to find commonality with a Trump voter. I'm not going twist myself in knots to try to see things from their point of view. To cater to their point of view would be for Democrats to lose their souls.

Trump turned about 70,000 white voters in swing states with the help of an illegal international scam.

We don't need his followers.

[Trekologer]

25. We can, and must, do both

"We don't need his followers."

We actually do. We don't necessarily need to sway that many of them, but we do need to make some of the T* voters see that they are listening to them. Parts of the Democratic coalition have been drifting away from us over the last 20-30 years and we need to bring them back in.

Take rust belt labor for one. They broke for T* (and Republicans in the last decade or so) because they felt marginalized and that Democrats weren't representing them. We can argue about whether that is true or not but it doesn't matter what we think or even what reality is; all that matters is that they felt marginalized and we need to do something about it.

And what do we do? We need to better explain our economic message. We need to engage more. We need to run candidates at every level. We can't write off swaths of population because we might not win them.

[Squinch]

26. The rust belt white man, the ones we lost, when polled, did not see the economy as the

most important issue in the election.

The economic message was not the message that appealed to them. What appealed to them was the racist, sexist message.

Unless we appeal to their racism and sexism we can't get them. If we DO appeal to their racism and sexism say goodbye to me and millions like me.

No we don't need his followers. There are plenty of people who didn't vote in this election that we can get with the right candidate and a better protection of our message and our messengers.

[Trekologer]

30. Instead of following the polls we need to change the polls

In other words, if the white men in the rust belt didn't think the economy (or another of our messages) were of top importance, we need to do a better job of convincing them it is important. We do this without sacrificing our values.

[Squinch]

33. And yet, with the most progressive platform ever, we didn't overcome their

need for racism and sexism. It was probably also the very progressiveness of the platform that turned them away. What part of our progressivism would you like to ditch in order to appeal to them?

These men we are describing would be the absolutely most difficult for us to turn. Why do so many concentrate on them? There is a LOT of much lower hanging fruit that would be MUCH easier for us to get to.

Why do we obsess about the rust belt white man who will never see things our way?

[Trekologer]

35. "We do this without sacrificing our values"

I'm not going to relitigate the general campaign except to say that it doesn't matter how progressive the platform is if we don't bring that message to the voters. And I don't think the campaign did that at all.

We can win because our ideas are better. But we still need to explain our ideas and plans to the voters. We didn't do that very well or at all in 2016.

[Squinch]

36. Well that is a different conversation entirely, and I generally agree with that.

Though Hillary had all the right message, we had let Republicans frame the narrative for so long unopposed that she wasn't able to pierce that in some places during the campaign.

I think we ALWAYS miss messaging opportunities. We are missing a big one right now, where we could be pointing out in real time to people how they are being screwed by Republicans.

But I still maintain - leave the rust belt white man where he is. Even with perfect messaging we won't get him. His whole identity is all caught up in NOT being with us.

[Trekologer]

37. We might not get everyone

But we can't let the meme that we aren't speaking to the working class continue. It circulates in echo chambers. We're too connected now to let those things go unchecked. I live in suburban NJ and I hear this from friends and family. We might not win the rust belt white working man (though I dispute the idea we can't win him) but we can't let his dissolution infect others. When we ignore groups, that's what results.

[riderinthestorm]

27. +1 nt

[Fast Walker 52]

29. anyone who is still a Republican at this point cannot be reasoned with

so, better to spend our energy elsewhere.

[NCTraveler]

3. I will show them the same sympathy...

That Trump did to us when he was a citizen. Let me see your birth certificate you racist piece of shit. I know you were born in Russia.

[Eliot Rosewater]

4. Ridiculous. They want hate and are about to get a steaming pile of it from fuckface.

Millions of lives will be destroyed in the name of racism.

America is an ugly place now, we cant stop it.

[Amaryllis]

12. I think they have become so adept at stealing elections that they don't feel they have to answer to

constituents.

[JustAnotherGen]

14. Nope!

I have zero fucks to give about them. Let's be real people. They laugh at us. Turn about is fair play. I'm going to laugh at them when the shit hits the fan.

[mcar]

15. But we have to be nice to them because...

Fck it, I still can't figure out why. More of us than them. How about we work to get our own out to vote instead?

[Fast Walker 52]

31. because our mockery of them made them vote for Trump against their will

haven't you heard this argument? It's all the rage in the past couple of months.

Of COURSE it's absolutely ridiculous, but they need some excuse for supporting Trump.

[mcar]

34. But we're the snowflakes?

You can't make this stuff up.

[Fast Walker 52]

38. I know, but there are people who are really hung up on this stupid idea

drives me insane.

[jmg257]

21. Not in the least. They can give one shit about us and what we think.

[treestar]

24. In fact, they hope we are in distress, because

they enjoy it.

[Fast Walker 52]

32. yes, that is true, and then they get mad at us for mocking them for supporting a dumbass like Trump

it's all very bananas.

[Blue_Tires]

28. +1