It seems to me that INDIVISIBLE is much more powerful than OUR REVOLUTION

[bravenak]

Indivisible is a group that many are finding helps us fight republicans on their own turf, rather than simply trying to remake the Democratic party in it's own image. It's a way that all of us can get involved, Conservative Dems, Yellow Dogs, Blue Dogs, Liberals, Feminists, Minorities, LGBT anybody oppressed by the Trump administration has a place there, can find their voice.

Indivisible is not about one guy or one cause, it is about us getting feet into the streets and fighting back. It will be how we win.

There are many more groups that are fighting back right now. Join one. Don't let purity politics destroy this chance we have to build up momentum and finally destroy the xenophobic Trump administration.

I prefer groups like Indivisible, to the groups that plan on primarying Democrats to foment a Revolution.

[boston bean]

1. a-yup. Very well organized. Grassroots. Regular people fighting and leading.

[bravenak]

2. Yes!! To me that matters more than who is leading the group

It will take millions of Dems standing up and fighting, I want to keep all the Dems we have. Not run them off by angrily primaring anybody who is a red state dem for not being far left. That is not helpful

[calimary]

123. Yes indeed! To everything you just said, brave.

[Gothmog]

188. I was asked to be on the planning committee for my county's Indivisible group

We need to set up a PAC

[bravenak]

189. Please do. I want to form a group here and need help

[Gothmog]

191. I know Texas law

I will keep you informed as to what we do

[bravenak]

192. Thank you, Alaska is weird since we don't actually have law schools and stuff

Finding affordable counsel is very hard. Again, thanks!

[Maru Kitteh]

180. Here is a link to INDIVIDIBLE for those looking to link up locally and download the guide!

https://www.indivisibleguide.com/



It's outstanding!

[uponit7771]

3. YES !!! This should be a sticky, there are way more people who didn't vote that are available than..

... remaking ourselves into trying to attract people who go against who we are

[bravenak]

6. I know quite a few non voters who regret their decision

They will vote next time, but they wont vote for someone far to the left. Red State. But we can get a guy like Mark Begich back in the Senate. He may have been a blue dog, but he was our and still is working to make my state better. He owns low income property and I have watched him fix a porch himself, rent is fair, he takes all kinds, no discrimination. Poor guy had to deal with my weed smoking when he came through, but he is not one to judge. Good guy. We need to get back to that.

[greatauntoftriplets]

4. "One nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

[bravenak]

10. Yes. That's what we want

[greatauntoftriplets]

47. To me, that's what this nation is all about.

[bravenak]

50. To me too

[malaise]

22. The Perfect line

They can't touch it - it's the ultimate synopsis of the philosophical underpinning of the CONSTITUTION.
Americans either believe this or they don't - race and religion do not matter - indivisible only has one meaning.

I'm betting on IS

[greatauntoftriplets]

48. I said this every day of grade and high school (not college).

This line made a big impression on me.

[malaise]

96. The belief in that line is the reason for HOPE

It's not a perfect union, and institutional racism is real - but the majority believe that line.
There are way less racists than they were in the 1960s

[greatauntoftriplets]

107. I hope so.

But I've heard some extraordinarily racist garbage said in my presence since the election. It's as if a ton of ugliness has been unleashed where it was held in before.

[aikoaiko]

5. If you had included Our Revolution types or Bernie-supporters in your list

I might believe your calls for party unity. I suppose they are in your "other category".

Because they are there at the marches, town halls, etc too.

[bravenak]

8. I am stating MY PREFERENCE of style

[aikoaiko]

24. My point is you marginalized a group and group members who

are participating in Indivisible groups and actions.

Your OP is example of not including people fighting for a common good cause.

[bravenak]

25. No i did not. I said one group is better.

[aikoaiko]

38. I hope Indivisible continues to welcome Bernie-supporters and Our Revolution members

It's a notable omission from your OP.

[JustAnotherGen]

58. In my borough group

They are dying to learn how to infiltrate and take over from the bottom up. I have a 26 year old Sanders supporter on deck to run for a 3 year council term. Our borough group is focused on School Board and Council this year. We merge with the county group for activism.

All we ask is that you be a registered Democratic.

[bravenak]

63. You just gave a perfect example of how to get shit done.

[aikoaiko]

67. Glad to hear it. I know that Bernie supporters are part of the solution.

Thank you for verifying that.

[JustAnotherGen]

217. The caveat to that

Getting them to understand you have to BE the establishment to get things done. They want to do online activism. That doesn't win election in small towns. Going door to door, getting out to community events, showing up to the partnership meetings - that's how you win.

[sheshe2]

228. +1000

Feet on the ground.

[mcar]

88. This is the way to do it!

[oldcynic]

124. This is the way to go...

from the bottom up. So much better than trickling down. Forget who supported who. The past is another country, if I may misquote somebody. The enemy of the people, who is not the press, started by infiltrating school boards and councils.

[murielm99]

57. We have former Bernie supporters

in our Indivisible group. Bravenak did not marginalize anyone.

[aikoaiko]

65. I'm glad they are there. I know they are there.

Last edited Sun Feb 26, 2017, 07:03 PM - Edit history (1)

I found it marginalizing that they weren't included in the OP as a group working within the Indivisible framework.

[LanternWaste]

229. We often find evidence of what we want to find

"I found it marginalizing..."

We often find evidence of what we want to find, and often fail to see evidence of what we do not wish to see.

No doubt, we all of us believe ourselves to be Objective, regardless of what our patterns may illustrate otherwise.

[Capn Sunshine]

98. If anything, Berniacs seem to be spoiling for a fight.

They exhibit hypersensitivity at every turn. Witness above. No one mentioned them, and someone felt that was offensive.

Keep working, everyone, and put your hurt feelings behind you. :peace:

[mcar]

73. We shouldn't be labelling ourselves as supporters of this or that

Primary candidate anymore, IMO. We are Democrats and we need to fight the evil around us together.

[aikoaiko]

83. But we are not all Democrats.

Lefties, Greens, Democrats, left-learning independents, moderate Republican repulsed by Trump -- we are stronger together as the slogan says.

It helps when you name names and say welcome.

[mcar]

86. We are stronger together

My point is that "Bernie supporter" is not one of those groups. It is a callback to the primary, not a call to join together.

[murielm99]

111. You know I have always supported you.

When a lot of us HRC supporters were being silenced and assailed here, I was on your side. I am still. But our group does include the people mentioned. We try to seek out the union members, disaffected republicans, all types. Former Bernie supporters are included in that.

I stood up at a town hall and say that we had to be a big tent again. A Bernie supporter had spoken up first and tried to brag about all the work his group had done for their candidate. I told everyone we had to work together now, or trump would win.

After the meeting, he sought me out. He told me that he had voted for Hillary in the general. He had joined the local party, and was now a precinct committeeman. He was one of several people who came up to me.

That is what we need. We can be Indivisible, and work within the party structure.

You are right that the former Bernie supporters need to move on. But I am going to welcome them to work with us, as long as they understand that it IS time to look ahead.

And Bernie? STFU about Perez and Ellison. It looks to me like those two want to work together.

[mcar]

115. My point exactly

We all need to work together and combine our strengths.

Disagreeing about certain issues shouldn't drive us apart.

[aikoaiko]

184. I would argue it is. I'm a 2017 Bernie supporter

He's an independent who was invited into Democratic leadership now - not during the primary. He has an agenda and a perspective I support now.

He's not running for national office.

I support what he is doing as a Senator.

[Ligyron]

143. "...moderate Republicans"

EXACTLY!!

If we make it more about issues than labels, we'll cast a bigger net and even catch some of them.

[NastyRiffraff]

79. Here we go again

The OP didn't marginalize a group simply because that group wasn't mentioned. Please just STOP trying to be a victim. You did it in another thread and you're doing it again here.

[aikoaiko]

84. Thank you for noticing my consistency. Words matter, though.

And based on the Bravenak's posts, I think it was a purposeful omission.

If she has said she includes Bernie supporters and Our Revolution members as participants in Indivisible who doing it right, I would accept that from her.

[NastyRiffraff]

93. I'm pretty sure she doesn't care

whether or not you "accept" anything from her.

[bravenak]

159. I did not mention EITHER candidate. On purpose. Because it's not about the candidate. It's us.

[aikoaiko]

183. Right.

[LanternWaste]

230. You'll supply us with objective evidence to support your allegation, yes?

You'll supply us with objective evidence to support your allegation, yes; or is your little bumper-sticker really no more than simply another fortune cookie?

[aikoaiko]

238. I wrote an affirmative declaration as a response to her statement.

Oh are you accusing me of being sarcastic? What crystal ball did you use to determine that or will you provide objective evidence that I was not sincerely agreeing?

[Blue_true]

119. Everyone was included by the OP. You saw groups you

are not fond of and checked out.

[Gothmog]

190. I am helping both Community Action Network group and the Invisible group in my county

All three groups were at my county's Democratic Party County Executive Committee this week. The Our Revolution representative used the word manifesto nine times in a two minute speech.

[aikoaiko]

193. Do you not like the word manifesto? Which manifesto was alluded to?

[Gothmog]

196. In Texas, this word is not a good way to win voters

He was calling on everyone to do their won manifesto and call it a manifesto. The Our Revolution was focused on using this word and wanted everyone else to use it.

[JudyM]

203. Very active, focused on getting new people into the process and training them to run for office.

[milestogo]

7. These groups work together.

They are not in competition. I hosted an event yesterday and had signups from both. Our Revolution is not about Bernie Sanders. Its about the grassroots.

[bravenak]

9. I prefer Indivisible

I saw some of the our revolution types threatening to primary dems. No thanks.

[meadowlander]

27. It's not an either/or choice

so why try to make it one?

We can run one strategy in purple states and one in solid blue ones.

[Else You Are Mad]

29. I see nothing wrong with primarying a Dem with a Dem.

Sometimes new blood is needed. That is the beauty of democracy.

[bravenak]

36. At a time when we need more Dems, I think it's a bad idea to give repubs a chance to steal a seat

Incumbents are likelier to win, so I think we should support our incumbents until we get our majority back

[Else You Are Mad]

43. Valid point.

But complacency and apathy is the largest hurdle facing Democrats these days. I admit it is a tough choice, but sometimes new blood could bring out a large turnout. Look at what happened in Delaware yesterday.

ETA: I am not saying primary for the sake of primarying but, if there is a Democrat that is worthy of being primaried with someone new, I have no problem with that.

[bravenak]

51. I can see that, but only primary if the new person can win

[Else You Are Mad]

60. Agreed.

I don't want to lose any more seats. But, if there is a strong candidate, there is no reason to hold them back. But, I also want them to earn their chops in state and local before jumping into primarying House and Senate members.

[bravenak]

62. Good idea. Experience in local politics is a good indicator of future success.

[OKNancy]

112. only primary someone in a safe Democratic seat... say like Tulsi Gabbard

Why some on the left think she is progressive is beyond me.

[bravenak]

132. Oh hell yeah

[mcar]

95. Not now

Why tear each other apart? We need to beat Republicans, not each other.

[StubbornThings]

128. No thanks to democracy?

WTF!

[bravenak]

130. Invalid response

[StubbornThings]

131. You said it. Not me.

I'm just asking why?

[bravenak]

133. Why are you asking why?

[StubbornThings]

135. Because I'm wondering why you're against democracy?

Not sure why I needed to repeat that.

[bravenak]

138. How is my suggesting peopke join indivisible being against democracy?

This is one of those 'when will you stop beating your husband?' questions. 2007. I Stopped beating him in 2007, he now knows how to stay my hand

[StubbornThings]

141. "I saw some of the our revolution types threatening to primary dems. No thanks."

You're against Dems running against other Dems.

My response had nothing to do with your movement preference.

[bravenak]

144. Why am I not allowed to be against primarying my own allies?

[StubbornThings]

153. I didn't say you weren't allowed to be against democracy.

Just surprised that anyone would admit it.

[bravenak]

157. I'm against fighitng my allies while the new Hitler is tossing my relatives into boxcars

[StubbornThings]

158. I heard you the first three or four times you said it. nt

[bravenak]

160. Yet, here you remain.

[Squinch]

179. LOL! Welcome to DU. Who sent you? And why do you hate puppies? WTF!

[guillaumeb]

12. Agreed. As I stated in post 11, I do not see competition.

I see regular voters finally deciding to become more involved.

[CousinIT]

206. +1 n/t

[guillaumeb]

11. There are a few Indivisible groups in my area.

One hopes that they will last.

Our social justice group just started to work with 2 of the closest Indivisible groups. I see them as previously non-involved voters finally becoming active. Finally.

By the way, in our group, we have Marxists, Sanders supporters, and what I would call mainstream Democrats. We do not practice purity politics.

[bravenak]

20. Good!

One of my repub friends has recently joined. Which is good bevause I was giving him the silent treatment. He has a grandchild who is a minority and feels guilty for not pating attention. He wanted lower taxes. Now he want Trump's head on a pike. One at a time. We will win.

[leftstreet]

13. The people fighting back at town halls probably won't join groups

And they don't really need to

[bravenak]

15. Many of them are in groups

Alot of those people there are there because of indivisible.

[susanna]

213. Yes, they are. That is how many I know became more involved. n/t

[bravenak]

214. Yes. We should welcome that energy, people are responding to us

[susanna]

215. I completely agree. n/t

[malaise]

14. This should have 500 recs

Great post bravenak

[bravenak]

17. Thank you :)

[SaschaHM]

16. One group is run by Jeff Weaver. The other isn't.

That says enough about the goals and aims for me.

[bravenak]

18. Bingo!!!!

Weaver was not the best. I swear I still blame him for the drama because it seems like he was the guy who was really causing it.

[MelissaB]

23. So you only want unity if Bernie or anyone associated with him has nothing to do with it?

[bravenak]

28. I'd take bernie over Weaver ANY DAY

Weaver and his ilk are why I stopped supporting Bernie. I will not support him except in his elections against Republicans until he gets a bit more control of his message. I will support Bernie FULLY when he joins us in the party.

[MelissaB]

41. That's a completly different reason than what you said a long time ago

about why you don't support Bernie.

Bernie ran as a Democrat, supports Dems, raises money for Dems, and caucuses with them, but he is still dinged for purity and required to pass a purity test.

[bravenak]

46. I said a long time ago that it was his fans not him that turned me off

That includes Weaver. I do not like the way African Americans were treated. Period. And I do not apologize for being insulted.

[Cha]

34. Here's a weaver tweet after Tom won..

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

What a divider.. no way to win anything.

[bravenak]

39. I cannot believe he is still up to that same shit

[Cha]

44. Fucking insulting shit.. he drives everyone away who's

reality based.

[mcar]

100. Some people never learn

[Cha]

103. he doesn't want to.. his personaity is to insult

others with Lies to puff up himself. grr He wants to divide.. no future in that

[SaschaHM]

64. Did you see the nasty statement he put out about Perez winning?

Politico did a great article about a lot of the behind the scenes drama. Apparently, Sanders personally lobbied for J. Harrison to back Ellison on Wednesday and when he didn't, pro Ellison forces pounced. Rep. Meeks was threatened with being primaried if he didn't support Ellison.
http://www.politico.com/story/2017/02/sanders-revolution-resists-dnc-loss-235404'

Sen. Bernie Sanders and his supporters went hard after anyone who wouldn't back Keith Ellison in the run-up to the Democratic National Committee chair election.

Sanders phoned Jaime Harrison on Wednesday, the South Carolina Democratic chair who was on the verge of dropping out of the race, making a heavy pitch for him to endorse Ellison as a transformational moment for the party.

The next day, when Harrison threw his support to former Labor secretary Tom Perez instead, Ellison supporters worked off talking points and attacked him as a corporate lobbyist insider who’d struck a crooked deal that didn’t pass their purity test.

[bravenak]

66. That's the shit right there that turns me the hell off

Tired of Democrats being bullied. I saw it yesterday and it pissed me off. I had planned on shutting up about this guy, but the bullying of dems is heartbreaking to me.

[Gothmog]

19. I was at an Indivisible meeting Wednesday night with a large turnout

I was impressed

[bravenak]

30. It's so much more than the Tea Party ever was

[Gothmog]

186. It was amazing

These people are very scared and very motivated.

[bravenak]

187. I think this is a sign of good thing to come if we fight

[MelissaB]

21. "Don't let purity politics destroy this chance we have to build up momentum..."

I couldn't agree more.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

26. I like it. Whatever works.

[Cha]

31. I love it! Thanks brave!

The Indivisible movement is fueling resistance to Trump

Created by a group of former congressional staffers, the guide, now a website, provides specific tactics for fighting against President Donald Trump’s agenda by taking a page from the tea party’s playbook. So far, over 6,000 local groups have registered at IndivisibleGuide.com, agreeing “to resist Trump’s agenda, focus on local, defensive congressional advocacy and embrace progressive values.” The guide has been downloaded over a million times and the site has already had over 10 million page views.

http://www.salon.com/2017/02/15/how-the-indivisible-movement-is-fueling-resistance-to-trump_partner/

[bravenak]

32. I am so damn excited

I tried to find a group here when it first started. I bet we have one now, I'm ready to commit fully. Or start my own if we don't have one.

[Wounded Bear]

33. Locally, yes. Nationally, I disagree...

If the DNC (under new leadership so they get a pass for a while) does not go out and engage these groups, it will go the route of OWS, which eventually faded into non-relevance. These kinds of movements don't last unless they continue to get support. Part of that support is the recognition that what they are doing makes a difference from the Party they are ostensibly trying to help get into office and do the people's work.

Yes, we need this grass-roots organizing, and yes we definitely need to tone down the purity tests and intramural fighting, but we also need national strategies that gets Dems elected in all 50 states (or 57 if you count the territories ) at all levels of government. And yes, that might mean cherry picking a bit and not getting national money to every election. We do need to expand into red distritcts and at least get offices open and candidates running going forward. That won't happen overnight.

As for primarying Dems, I don't have a big problem with that if we're not messing around with critical districts/seats. Since pretty much all of them are critical now, I would put that off for a couple of cycles. I probably would not base a decision to primary so much on "purity" as on electability. We do need to spread the message coherently. Most Dem policies poll quite well nationally. But it might take some convincing in redder areas.

[bravenak]

49. I agree with you mostly

Basically, I think these groups like indivisible are organic and will continue regardless of the party. We need to harness the energy.

[nini]

35. At least that group knows who the real enemy is... and it's not us

I know a lot of people who have finally become active again or for the first time with that organization.

[bravenak]

56. That's amazing to me.

We have woken up and we will no longer be divided. Republicons better watch the hell out, here we come!

[nini]

199. seriously.. these people who used to tire of my political rants finally are as pissed as I am

It's amazing.

[bravenak]

200. I love it. Even my republican cousin changed his registration

[Talk Is Cheap]

37. Can't they work together?

What about all the other organizations - should they stop supporting their causes?

[bravenak]

52. Of course they can work together. Indivisible means just that, indivisible. I love it

[Talk Is Cheap]

68. If I follow your logic...

...and correct me if I misunderstood your post - Then even Indivisible should go away because the Dem Party will do everything...

Right?

[bravenak]

72. Where did I say that or anything like that?

[Talk Is Cheap]

77. Ok,then, your post was a bit cryptic...

Care to expand on your point so I know what you are talking about?

[bravenak]

89. I said join a group like indivisiblE

[LeftInTX]

40. I'm in one and I love it

[bravenak]

54. Awesome!!!

[oasis]

42. I will not stand for any attempt to hijack the Democratic Party. nt

[randr]

45. Too late, it was hijacked a while back

[bravenak]

55. Me neither

[Wounded Bear]

59. IMHO, it is not about "hijacking" anything...

We just ran a national election with the most progressive platform ever, and it took extreme voter suppression and a lot of interference from the Russians and the FBI to beat it.

I think the Democratic Party is ready for this (or at least I hope so) and there is a possibility of a 1932 style surge that could progressive politics on the upswing for the next generation going forward.

Like I said in my post above, the Party needs to reach out to these groups and open up dialogues with them and use the energy to link the local work being done by these groups to the national movement.

[oasis]

109. I'm willing to have patience with our existing leadership. I trust

them to steer the Party in a direction which will benefit the vast majority of Americans. It's not like the Democratic Party has no vision of what's possible. If they see fit to adapt significant changes in policy I'm all for it.

[oldcynic]

168. What is the vision?

Does the Demo party have a mission statement?

[murielm99]

53. You are so right! n/t

[SunSeeker]

61. Totally agree. Spot on as usual, bravenak.

[mcar]

69. I like it too

I also like the Women's March group.

[bravenak]

76. Me too. I see these groups as more impactful

[KPN]

70. Ironic that this OP is actually divisive.

What's the goal here?

[bravenak]

75. How is it divisive?

[KPN]

81. It's pretty clear I think.

[bravenak]

82. I have no clue what you mean

Not clear to me

[KPN]

85. I think you do ... you are an intelligent person from what I've seen.

So let me just put it this way. I wouldn't have made my comment had you simply praised the effectiveness of Indivisible.

[bravenak]

92. It's only divisive if people refuse to drop their grudges and move into the nos

[KPN]

101. And move into the "nos"? Not sure what that means.

At any rate, I was editing my last reply while you were responding to it. Take a look. As for grudges, a bit like the kettle calling the pot isn't it? Who did the comparison and criticized something being about "one person" in the first place? I stand by my post.

[bravenak]

127. But what you are doing is fine?

Shitting on an op is so non divisive

[KPN]

210. Really?

Shitting on a major subset of the D Party in the OP is not divisive? I feel like you are being disingenuous here. I'm just speaking out in defense (in reaction to -- I didn't and haven't posted ANY divisive feelings/thoughts in an OP ever!) of a legitimate perspective shared by a significant share of the party's membership and prospective members that happens to be different than yours. ... I'm tired of it and I intend to be vocal in response. Hate Bernie all you want ... but keep it to yourself if you don't want to be confronted.

[bravenak]

212. Not everything is about him

Thats why I prefer my groups to not be about one politician or another. People are too invested in personality to be reasonable. The deification never ends.
I can write ops that state my preferences if I choose, you trying to shut me down because I happen to prefer another style in my political affiliations is unnecessary and unwarranted.

[NurseJackie]

78. No it's not.

[NurseJackie]

71. Yes! You are absolutely correct. Even their NAME is better. "Indivisible" suggests unity, while ...

... "Our Revolution" is evocative of 'the other' and a rejection of the Democratic party... almost as if Democrats are viewed as the enemy. They may not mean it to sound that way... but that's how it comes across to many.

"Indivisible" sounds strong and optimistic. It evokes a sense of vision and building on our strengths and successes. "Our Revolution" sounds like it wants to start over from scratch. (What a waste of time and resources!)

The example I continue to use is the one where "Our Revolution" types want to raze their house because of a leaky faucet ... rather than WORKING TOGETHER to make repairs and improvements, while keeping everything that's good and strong.

[bravenak]

74. That's it, exactly!

We are simply not interested in blowing up our house because the roof leaks. I like the idea of being undivided better than the idea of a revolution. People like me die in revolutions...

[bullwinkle428]

80. Is Indivisible even a group? It strikes me way more as a political strategy, which

has very quickly shown itself to be an extremely effective one. The Congressional staffers that authored the guide even talked about some of the similarities in tactics to what the tea-baggers used starting in 2009. No question that it proved its ability to make strides, so we need to fully embrace it as a way to further our goals.

[MarvinGardens]

87. +1000000

I am in Indivisible Georgia 7 and feel like we are really making a difference. I am new to the Democratic side. Lots of other folks who were independent or not actively involved are now fired up and participating.

[zentrum]

90. Both play an....

...important role. We always need a strong wind from the left at the back of liberal movements or they slide too far right, because the right never, ever, shies away from fierce opposition.

Also these are not usual times. Please notice that a revolution and coup is occurring at all levels under Rump. We really don't have much time. Read Tim Snyder. He says we have one year or the "Regime Change"---defined as the loss of all democratic institutions and ways of doing government itself--will be irreversibly lost.

[bravenak]

154. We are not going gentle into that goodnight

Look here, dems fighting dems about ideology can wait until we defeat Trump. I am to the left of both Stein and all of our senators and congresspeople , and I know better than to fight my friend while the enemy is banging at the city gates.

[zentrum]

161. We have the same goals

......in mind but interpret the purpose of his words differently. Fact is, the Democratic establishment has been too ready to capitulate to the right and it's made us seem to have a weak message and thereby unelectable. He can't let that happen ever again.

The fact that he was in Kansas taking it back for us is huge.

[Hortensis]

91. +1000, Bravenak.

[LittleGirl]

94. I joined the indivisible group

in southern AZ and within a month, we have 2000 members. we had 1000 in two weeks! They are active and the admin of one of the groups is a Republican!

[bravenak]

151. See? That's how we win!! Goid on you guy, I'm down to pull moderates to our side

[LittleGirl]

155. Yep, normal people that

have some brains!

[gwheezie]

97. It's really up to us

I was at an indivisible event yesterday & someone said they had never been involved in elections until Bernie but then tried to steer the discussion to Bernie could have won, several others politely redirected him that that fight is over & glad he's now indivisible. Our fight is with the GOP.

[bravenak]

149. Thank you guys for that. That was the reason that Ronan guy was not my style.

He would have made a terrible dnc chair.

[mcar]

99. There's an Indivisible group in my red county!

By which I mean one guy . He had a very good op-ed in our RW rag last week about our congress critter's betrayal of the environment (the great outdoors is our big tourism grab here).

[bettyellen]

104. Is t it two if we include you? ;-). Grow that group please!

[mcar]

106. Oh I plan to

He's part of the local Dem Party. I'm going to start attending their meetings next month.

[bravenak]

146. I hope you join him soon!! Two is better than one!

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

102. Well said

Results matter. I'm tired of the ideologically pure beautiful loser game.

[bravenak]

165. It has been so stressful

[Hekate]

105. KnR

[OKNancy]

108. I signed up to the Tulsa group just last week

[bravenak]

145. I signed up too. Things move slower here but we still work hard.

Took alot to get a minimum wage hike through. We needed both the left and the moderates and indys to get it done.

[MyMission]

110. indivisible is an umbrella group

Many groups are and can be listed on their website, and use their tools.

I never heard of that revolution group. I've seen the resist groups.
I would be very reluctant to join a group promoting revolt, and resistance is all well and good, but the resistance needs a plan. Invisible helps with that plan, and it implies and promotes unity, which is very important.

The tea party had repugs, libertarians, independents, zealots, and traitors
Indivisible has democrats, independents, liberals, greens, and patriots ,

[bravenak]

142. That's why I said find a group and join.

The revolution group seems to target dems they dont like. Other groups target repubs and libertarians in congress. Some peopke will find that the groups listed there are more to their liking. Not everyone want to join a revolution, some like to fight at town halls and by pressuring congress. That seems to be a better plan to get more of us on the left in office.

[smirkymonkey]

113. K&R

[bekkilyn]

114. I support both and we need both (nt)

[cry baby]

116. I'm a member of 2 Indivisible groups in Texas. It feels empowering

to be part of groups here in tx that are moving and shaking.

[LeftInTX]

125. I know it is great!

One of Lloyd Doggett's former aides wrote the Indivisible guide.

We've got several groups in our county.
It is well organized around here.

[Starry Messenger]

117. K&R

[retrowire]

118. YES LETS COMPETE WITH ONE ANOTHER!

The primaries are over bravenak. Maybe get over them.

[bravenak]

140. You move on. Indivisible did not exist until Trump. This op is about now. Maybe it's you who need

move forward.

[George II]

120. The first has a positive connotation, the second a negative connotation. One implies....

....peaceful change the other violent change.

I find the second concept "revolting".

[bravenak]

136. One seems to imply a violent struggle. I don't want that. I want unity.

[ananda]

121. OK ..

There's no reason that both movements cannot
coexist and do a lot of good!

Why divide and compare?

We're all in this together.

[bravenak]

139. Why am I not allowed to prefer one over another? And to say so?

[BlueWI]

122. Flamebait OPs like this

from people who make the same point continually are just as effective at sowing divisions as are the Russian hacking.

How about Dem-leaning voters apply more than one organizing strategy at a time to get better results, with mutual respect guiding how we interact?

[bravenak]

137. My stating my preference is not flamebait

[BlueWI]

148. Your preference has been stated repeatedly in many forums

and I am sure it will be stated again, as is your right. But if the bigger purpose is to talk strategy and encourage mutual effort to win elections for Dems, primary war posts in sheep's clothing do not help.

[bravenak]

150. This is strategy.

I said join and fight. Some would rather nurse old grievances.

[oldcynic]

147. LISTEN TO YOURSELVES

This thread is democracy in action. Arguing over intent, history, meaning, snippets, errors, personalities, etc. etc. At least at DU, it seems members can contest with vigorous civility if not warmth, but, until you are all willing to agree on a single course of action you will fail, just as the country failed in the last election. Mea culpa or your culpa is irrelevant. Time to compromise, folks. Get on with it.

[BlueWI]

162. This thread is Democracy with very little action.

And the right didn't win across the board in Washington and in statehouses with one strategy or one philosophy. They have a secular wing and a religious wing. They have libertarians and a pro-military faction. Dems aren't going to agree on one strategy and I agree that that's how democracy works. But without the mutual respect for different approaches to organizing the bigger goals fail. I support both Our Revolution and Indivisible, participated in both. I hope they both continue to thrive because they both have significant support. I called out this OP as flamebait because it negatively compares one organization to the other when the primary war is still recent history and many, many, many discussions have already taken place about Our Revolution, its successes and failures. There's nothing new really to say about it, at least at this general level of conversation.

[bravenak]

166. This op is a CALL TO ACTION

This is me saying, these groups are important to our future, and that I think one is more impactful than the other. More people on our side are ready for coming together to fight rather than having a revolution.
Not every state is like Washington, that is one of the more progressive states. That shit dont fly up here in my open carry 'Great wild life' state of the Last Frontier. Indivisible is working better than the other group did in much shorter of a time. You do what you want. Not my call

[Squinch]

182. Is that what you joined to say? Seems odd.

[BlueWI]

239. I've been a member since about 2003.

Changed names after the hack.

The substantive point I'm making is to respect differences rather than harp on divisions. Our Revolution and Indivisible are two strategies with a similar outcome. If we respect both camps, we build coalitions and win elections. The more slights, straw men, and innuendo, the fewer wins and the more Republican majority hell. Despite the Sanders majority that emerged during the primary season on DU, Dem-leaning independents are a constant target of passive aggression on this site (quite often by the same high volume posters) in addition to dismissal by the national party, as we've seen repeatedly with the over the top calling out of Jill Stein, Bernie Sanders, Ralph Nader, everyone being blamed for losses but the people in charge of repeatedly underwhelming Dem campaigns. So I occasionally speak up on that point. Don't alienate, ignore, or insult your likely voters and it can only help.

[DesertRat]

240. Hi BlueWI

I'm also a long time member. What was your user name before you changed it after the hack?

[Buddyblazon]

126. Divisive thread.

You should stick your witch hunt where the sun don't shine.

The fact this thread can exist when DU has rules against threads that are divisive to the group says so much about how far DU has fallen since the W days.

This has become a very, "Do as I say, not as I do.", forum.

[JTFrog]

129. Way to flame out. nt

[bravenak]

134. Move on then

[Piasladic]

152. Agree Completely -nt

[pansypoo53219]

156. as long as its democratic & not republican lite.

[BainsBane]

173. You don't seem to know what Indivisible is

because that is a very odd comment.

[Kimchijeon]

163. I like the idea of unity as well

And there are more of us (resisting) than them quite frankly.

I don't want to descend into petty infighting and bickering, because that's the kind of thing the Twitler supporters want.
Don't fall into that trap! Whatever we can do to resist, I am all for it!

[bravenak]

167. They have whole sites dedicated to watching us fight.

It would scare them if we all joined together.

[leftofcool]

164. I prefer Indivisible myself.

[bravenak]

171. It's more impactful, it has bigger goals, imo, and a better chance of working

[moriah]

169. JMHO, but the Indivisible Guide is helpful to ANY resistance against the GOP and Cheeto-in-Charge.

Regardless of groups, their publication about how to use Tea Party tactics back at the Tea-Baggers is great.

[bravenak]

170. I think so too, I listened to the podcast as soon as it came out. Brilliant.

[BainsBane]

172. All hands on deck

No need to rank them.

[bravenak]

174. I just have my preference

Moderate republicans up here are drawn to one and repelled by the other. In my state a dem needs republican votes. You know how it is.

[BainsBane]

175. Oh, I have mine as well

I've been working with OFA, but that's because I know the local head of it, and she's an amazing organizer.

[bravenak]

177. Just seeing OFA typed out make me miss Obama.

It's hard to find a good group up here sometimes. After that caucus and how things went, I'm done with excessive in person confrontations with people who have the same overall goals as me. OFA IS effective. That's all that matter in the end. Results.

[nikibatts]

176. Always right on the money, Bravenak.

Indivisible says it all.

[bravenak]

178. Right? That word is unifying

[yurbud]

181. Both have value. Too many Dems have yet to admit why they have lost Congress and states or

what they could do differently to win those back.

After a couple of decades of triangulating away from the base of Democratic voters, it's time to figure out which progressive values our elected officials need to go to the mat for if they win, and which things they will refuse to do no matter what trust fund baby pays them to do it.

There will always be a need to compromise and negotiate, but Democrats need to start from a different place and persist on different issues.

[bravenak]

185. No way could a far left progressive win my state

That's why we need blue dogs

[yurbud]

218. it depends on how you define "far left" in health care debate, some blue dogs were to right of

constituents on single payer or at least having a public option.

If you lead on economic issues, preserving social security and medicare because the private sector can't be trusted with those, and free higher ed, and getting Wall Street out of our public schools, a lot of people in Red States would get it, just as many got Bernie even though Hillary was more conservative on many issues.

If someone can just say, "When push comes to shove, I'll stand with you, not Wall Street, and I'll make sure the law applies to rich as well as the rest," that should play damn near everywhere.

[bravenak]

222. That will not win my gun toting neighbors over.

[yurbud]

223. if it's a rural area, they can keep their guns. If they are farmers, getting Monsanto and the like

out of their hair might do something though again, that would require turning your back on big money.

[bravenak]

226. It's alaska.

[yurbud]

233. What Democratic policies would appeal to them? Which industry do they work in?

[bravenak]

234. Legalized weed was one. We did pass a minimum wage hike tied to inflation.

They despise unions
But we love free money if you guys are paying. Anything that will make them feel indeoendent while getting money that is not ours.
We love our pfds. Permanent fund dividends. Honestly, they would vote for socialism if republucans proposed it. We love guns. Our hunting and fishing.
We love welfare if it's not called welfare. Call it a credit and they want it.

[yurbud]

224. your neighbor likes ever increasing private insurance premiums? or is he already on Medicare?

[bravenak]

225. Non union electrician. Paid well, is mad right now because our state is pondering an income tax.

See? We dont even have an income tax or a sales tax up here. Why? They crazy. We get more money back from you guys to pay our roads, then we pay out, so he think he's rugged and independent.

[yurbud]

232. that's the classic red state paradox. Obamacare missed a chance to fix that letting states NOT

accept the Medicaid money.

I'm not sure what the rationale was for that, but even if they couldn't get around letting them opt out, they should have advertised like hell in those states: "The ACA expanded Medicaid to those making up to $X per year, but you can only get it if you governor accepts the money. Call your governor and tell him to take the money or take a different job."

[bravenak]

235. I think it was a court decision that allowed that

Maybe not, but I remember the courts making it harder. After the aca the Tea Party peeps were doing open carry marches through the 'bad side' of town. People got so wrapped up in hating obama that they lost it. No amount of ads would have fixed their racism.
I think our new governor finally accepted it but thats after we let Parnell fuck up our state. Funny enough, Palin taxed the oil companies and gave out money to each citizen to help with heating costs, like 1500 dollars for the year in aid. The next guy was rolling in oil money and removed the Palin oil tax. We are now in a budget crisis.
It would take a serious crisis where the oil dried up for folks to come back to reality. They honestly believe in voodoo economics. Sucks. I'd move back to cali if the state wasn't so damn beautiful.

[bdamomma]

194. Indivisible

is making an impact and keeping repigs on the run, repigs are cowards.

[bravenak]

195. They are running so scared of us now

We are much bigger than the TEA Party

[bdamomma]

201. Great!!

let's just keep focused and see how the repigs are the biggest liars and cowards. Their party is finished.
Let's stick to the script.

[bravenak]

202. Yes. I keep bringing up how Trump wants to let Putin control us.

Then I lament over how Reagan would be enraged. I hated Reagan, but it fucking works like a damn charm.

[ismnotwasm]

197. It's badass

Impressively so

[bravenak]

198. I think so too, i'm impressed

[wildeyed]

204. The Indivisible group leaders I know are literally the PTO moms from my kid's school.

Moderate liberals, not all that political in the past. The ones who were previously embarrassed by my political obsessions and wished I would find better topics to discuss on FB. But they mad now. No more bake sales. They are all plotting the takedown of the GOP instead They were offended by the pussy grabbing comment and the mocking of the disabled reporter. They see DeVos as a threat to their children's education. Do not mess with their children's educations. Trust me. Not a good choice. And they don't like the vicious crackdowns on immigrants. Some of the are immigrants or children of immigrants, mostly highly educated and of Asian descent. And all of them hurt when they see children torn from their parents. They all know immigrant kids, so it seems personal. It is natural for a mother to want to comfort and protect a child in distress, even if it is not your blood child.

These are not people concerned about purity. They want to defend kids. Their own kids and at-risk kids in their community. They are very optimistic too. I am so damn cynical after too many years of doing this kind of thing. It is nice to get some fresh horses.

[bravenak]

208. Yep, that's how folks in my community feel.

They feel pushed into a corner by republicans. If we push them from the other side by forcing marxist ideology onto them, they will say "fuck you" and move on to something more suitable to their needs. I have gotten too many tearful aplogies about ignoring the racism to keep fighting folks who know they lost, or that feel guilty and want to join us. They're tired, I'm tired, but we're all tired of Trump even more than we get on each other's nerves.

[wildeyed]

209. Hell is other people.

It's a BIG country, both geographically and culturally. I am pretty sick of both extremes. I just want a government that functions on some basic level. In a democracy, that means compromise. We decided that it is easier to play by a set of rules and compromise a bunch than it is to fight all the time. Democracy is an imperfect pain in the ass, but I trust it more than some authoritarian a-hole making all the decisions.

I hope Antonin Scalia, Susan Sarandon and Milo Yianpooplup get to spend eternity in a small room in hell together. And Nader. Ralph Nader goes in the room too. And anyone who used the phrase "I won't be forced to choose between the lesser of two evils" when referring to an election. It is ok if you are talking about a New Coke vs Crystal Pepsi, but not about serious life choices. So sick of a small number of extreme voters making all our decisions. Or more accurately, making no decisions since they all act like they are three years old when they don't get their way every single time.

[bravenak]

216. Agreed.

[CousinIT]

205. Bernie is on our side and & I see no need to pit one against the other. We need BOTH.

We need all the help we can get no matter what the vehicle.

O.R. isn't about one guy or cause either.

Suggest maybe you should take your own advice: "Don't let purity politics destroy this chance we have to build up momentum and finally destroy the xenophobic Trump administration."

No need for this divisiveness. Can't afford it right now.

[bravenak]

207. Then, he can temper his passion with the spirit of brotherhood

I can critique his criticisms if I choose. Until I see mutual respect coming from his direction, I will always push back. We're fighting a war on two fronts; I won't consider it helpful until I see he is putting more effort into fighting him than fighting us. Bernie is very privileged from where I stand, his type of politics will do noting for us here, nothing besides get us deeper into a hole with our constituents.

[susanna]

211. I gravitated to Indivisible myself.

The revolution talk never resonated with me, because I understand that history has a long trajectory, being a bit older.

Indivisible have been very helpful in getting my local group off the ground and working quickly.

This, in my opinion, is what is important right now.

[DURHAM D]

219. This was posted on another thread.

It sums it up well -

Link to tweet

?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

[bravenak]

221. That's Truth

[disillusioned73]

220. 2018 & 2020 should prove interesting...

"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."
John F. Kennedy

[ehrnst]

227. Far more welcoming, that's for sure. (nt)

[sheshe2]

231. KnR!

[brooklynite]

236. The problem I have with Indivisible is that it's too diffuse...

...It encourages local groups to form under it's banner. In my ZIP Code, there are 8 distinct groups organized. My concern is that we may be chopping up our energy to the point that no one group has the resources to make a difference.

[bravenak]

237. I hope that's not the case

I seem to remember that there were a bunch of different Tea Party groups that did the same things. If we can work on the goals we have in common, then I think we can win the midterms.