Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

babylonsister

(171,042 posts)
Wed Mar 1, 2017, 07:22 AM Mar 2017

Robert Reich on dt's lies last night

Robert Reich
4 hrs ·

Trump's address to Congress this evening was chock full of lies. Here's a sample:


1."Obamacare premiums nationwide have increased by double and triple digits," Trump said, citing a 116 percent increase in Arizona as an example.

Wrong. Most people get their health care through the employer, and those premiums haven't spiked by nearly this amount. And for many people on the health care exchanges, federal subsidies are offsetting premium increases. Overall premium increases were actually faster under President George W. Bush than under President Barack Obama.

2. “We’ve defended the borders of other nations, while leaving our own borders wide open, for anyone to cross — and for drugs to pour in at a now unprecedented rate.”

Wrong. The data are mixed on the amount of drugs coming through the borders, but illegal immigration flows across the Southern border in fiscal 2015 were at the lowest levels since 1972, except for in 2011.

3. “Since my election, Ford, Fiat-Chrysler, General Motors, Sprint, Softbank, Lockheed, Intel, Walmart, and many others, have announced that they will invest billions of dollars in the United States and will create tens of thousands of new American jobs.”

Rubbish. Trump is taking credit for business decisions made before his election.

4. “As we speak, we are removing gang members, drug dealers and criminals that threaten our communities and prey on our citizens. Bad ones are going out as I speak and as I have promised throughout the campaign.”

More rubbish. About a quarter of the arrests that grabbed headlines in early February were of people who had lesser charges and noncriminal convictions. According to anecdotes of recent arrests, undocumented people with traffic violations were subject to arrest.

5. “By finally enforcing our immigration laws we will raise wages, help the unemployed, save billions and billions of dollars and make our communities safer for everyone.”

Baloney. Research shows noncitizens are less prone to criminality than U.S.-born citizens. The vast majority of unauthorized immigrants are not criminal aliens or aggravated felons. And there’s no evidence that reducing immigration “saves” America any money at all.

6. “Millions lifted from welfare to work is not too much to expect.”

More rubbish. Participation has declined sharply in means-tested programs such as Temporary Assistance for Needy Families (TANF) and the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program (SNAP, formerly known as food stamps).

7. “Ninety-four million Americans are out of the labor force.”

Wrong. Most of the people who are out of the labor force are retired, students, in jail, stay-at-home parents, or disabled.
They aren’t looking for work. Only about a quarter of the approximately 90 million people officially listed as being out of the labor force are able to get back in the job hunt if labor-market conditions were to improve.

8. "Right now, American companies are taxed at one of the highest rates anywhere in the world."

Rubbish. The official tax rate doesn’t reflect all the deductions and tax credits. When they're figured in, American corporations pay about the same effective tax rates as companies in other nations.

9. “America has spent approximately $6 trillion in the Middle East, all this while our infrastructure at home is crumbling. With this $6 trillion we could have rebuilt our country — twice.”

Wildly wrong. The wars in Iraq (in the Middle East) and Afghanistan (in South Asia) together cost about $1.6 trillion from 2001 to 2014. Trump’s $6 trillion-figure includes estimates of future spending -- much of which Trump himself plans to spend.

10. “The murder rate in 2015 experienced its largest single-year increase in nearly half a century. In Chicago, more than 4,000 people were shot last year alone — and the murder rate so far this year has been even higher. This is not acceptable in our society.”

Wrong again. Overall violent crime is on a decades-long decline, since the height of the crack cocaine epidemic in the early 1990s.

11. “Jamiel’s 17-year-old son was viciously murdered by an illegal immigrant gang member, who had just been released from prison. Jamiel Shaw Jr. was an incredible young man, with unlimited potential who was getting ready to go to college where he would have excelled as a great quarterback. But he never got the chance. His father, who is in the audience tonight, has become a good friend of mine.”

Anecdotes don’t prove anything. U.S. Sentencing Commission data show homicides are a small percentage of the crimes committed by noncitizens, whether they are in the United States illegally or not.

12. “I can tell you the money is pouring in. Very nice.”


Trump ad-libbed this line after mentioning that he was pressing NATO allies in “very frank and strong discussions” to meet their financial obligations to the alliance. But his point is nonsense. NATO allies were already increasing their military spending before Trump was elected. And the money is not “pouring into” the United States or even to NATO anyway; it's money countries would spend to bolster their own military.

Trump tells lies the way most people breathe. They come so naturally to him that he can't stop. But his lies undermine our democracy because, told over and over, they begin to sound truthful. As a result, Americans support policies that are wrong or nonsensical.


What do you think?
26 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Robert Reich on dt's lies last night (Original Post) babylonsister Mar 2017 OP
Trump lies, democracy dies a little. Truthtellers like Reich resist that. Support them & persist. nt Bernardo de La Paz Mar 2017 #1
Is he still averaging 4 lies a day? Cary Mar 2017 #2
It's harder to tell since Kelly Anne Conjob has been kept under wraps mdbl Mar 2017 #3
"But his lies undermine our democracy because, told over and over, they begin to sound truthful. " raccoon Mar 2017 #4
Indeed he and his cadre of brown shirts are deliberately aping Goebbels benfranklin1776 Mar 2017 #17
Creating jobs. Scarsdale Mar 2017 #5
This is a little sloppy oberliner Mar 2017 #6
#7 is deceptive MountCleaners Mar 2017 #10
it's a ridiculous deception, with an insidious intent-- to make unemployment seem much worse than it Fast Walker 52 Mar 2017 #11
Agree oberliner Mar 2017 #12
The LFPR is the same as it was in 2007 at the height of Bush's economic uponit7771 Mar 2017 #16
We should have started with single-payer in the first place. Fantastic Anarchist Mar 2017 #21
Send that to all news outlets, Robert Cha Mar 2017 #7
Debt, pollution, and inflation bucolic_frolic Mar 2017 #8
I'm going to have to start referring to Cheetolini as "The Rug" MrScorpio Mar 2017 #9
K&R! mfcorey1 Mar 2017 #13
I'm sure that the press will give this as much attention... Orrex Mar 2017 #14
This while he declares war on them and calls them an enemy. HughBeaumont Mar 2017 #15
Is he still averaging 4 lies a day? shawnivan110 Mar 2017 #18
Apparently the MSM has fallen into line again calling him Presidential BSdetect Mar 2017 #19
And they were all intentional. dalton99a Mar 2017 #20
I don't get zentrum Mar 2017 #22
Well, I like Robert Reich A LOT. However, I disagree on one point. PatrickforO Mar 2017 #23
Just because you get a subsidy does NOT mean a premium is low... Honeycombe8 Mar 2017 #24
K&R fleabiscuit Mar 2017 #25
Kick Hekate Mar 2017 #26

mdbl

(4,973 posts)
3. It's harder to tell since Kelly Anne Conjob has been kept under wraps
Wed Mar 1, 2017, 07:57 AM
Mar 2017

She used to repeat the lies on a daily basis. Now we have to rely on trump tweets.

raccoon

(31,106 posts)
4. "But his lies undermine our democracy because, told over and over, they begin to sound truthful. "
Wed Mar 1, 2017, 08:02 AM
Mar 2017

Just like somebody from 1930s Germany.

benfranklin1776

(6,443 posts)
17. Indeed he and his cadre of brown shirts are deliberately aping Goebbels
Wed Mar 1, 2017, 09:24 AM
Mar 2017

Tell the lie loud enough and long enough and people believe it as the truth. Particularly effective when you defund public education and wage war on the press.

Scarsdale

(9,426 posts)
5. Creating jobs.
Wed Mar 1, 2017, 08:02 AM
Mar 2017

tRump IS creating jobs. He is having a helicopter pad built on his place in Florida. Now every weekend, taxpayers will foot the bill for a helicopter to fly down there to transport him from the airport to Mar-A-Lago, avoiding those pesky protesters. Time to draft a bill limiting the personal expenses for a president and family members. This tRump crew will bankrupt the country in no time. He has already spent more in a few weeks than the Obamas did in a year.

 

oberliner

(58,724 posts)
6. This is a little sloppy
Wed Mar 1, 2017, 08:07 AM
Mar 2017

1. The premiums have gone up for those who are covered by the ACA. The fact that most people are covered by employer plans does not really contradict that. Also, employer plans have become more expensive for employees as well. The ACA does need reform - even Obama would say so. It's just that Trump and company have on idea or workable plan. Perhaps time to consider single payer.

3. The statement is true - even though Trump taking credit is stupid.

7. Again, the statement is true (although deceptive).

10. The statement is not wrong. The murder rate did surge in 2015.

MountCleaners

(1,148 posts)
10. #7 is deceptive
Wed Mar 1, 2017, 08:23 AM
Mar 2017

That number includes people who are not actively looking for work - including students, the disabled, the retired, and stay-at-home parents. That kind of deception counts as a lie, IMO.

 

Fast Walker 52

(7,723 posts)
11. it's a ridiculous deception, with an insidious intent-- to make unemployment seem much worse than it
Wed Mar 1, 2017, 08:30 AM
Mar 2017

really is. It's just another obnoxious dumb Trump lie.

 

oberliner

(58,724 posts)
12. Agree
Wed Mar 1, 2017, 08:31 AM
Mar 2017

But in the piece, he uses the word "wrong" with reference to the statistic. I think it is more effective if he had written - "true - but deceptive" and then went on to explain the points that you just made.

Fantastic Anarchist

(7,309 posts)
21. We should have started with single-payer in the first place.
Wed Mar 1, 2017, 03:15 PM
Mar 2017

Or at least started negotiations from that starting point. I think we gave the other side a legitimate issue to gripe about.

Orrex

(63,185 posts)
14. I'm sure that the press will give this as much attention...
Wed Mar 1, 2017, 08:38 AM
Mar 2017

as they're giving to their fawning insistence that Herr Trump "looked presidential."

HughBeaumont

(24,461 posts)
15. This while he declares war on them and calls them an enemy.
Wed Mar 1, 2017, 09:04 AM
Mar 2017

The handlers have instructed their vanity presses well. "I don't care if he eats a baby on live TV, you WILL kowtow, stay the course and make Repubs and rich folks look HEROIC, BY GOD!!!"

BSdetect

(8,998 posts)
19. Apparently the MSM has fallen into line again calling him Presidential
Wed Mar 1, 2017, 10:38 AM
Mar 2017

Its truly sickening.

I highly recommend the article shown below


Exposed how exactly social media is being used to influence elections [View all]

Robert Mercer: the big data billionaire waging war on mainstream media,

This is how they influence elections and even financial markets which has proven very successful



https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/feb/26/robert-mercer-breitbart-war-on-media-steve-bannon-donald-trump-nigel-farage

zentrum

(9,865 posts)
22. I don't get
Wed Mar 1, 2017, 04:34 PM
Mar 2017

.....why all Dem leaders aren't making these points pro-actively. And not in pundit-speak. But with kitchen-table clarity.

T is a good salesman to the middle of the curve. Makes them feel, regarded, cared for. Safe. Uggh. It appalls me but it's the truth.

Dems need to listen to Lakoff and learn how better to connect---telling it like it is about his lies, about their own policies etc.

Reich is mostly read only by the choir. This is a problem. We're way too polite and dispassionate.

PatrickforO

(14,566 posts)
23. Well, I like Robert Reich A LOT. However, I disagree on one point.
Wed Mar 1, 2017, 09:29 PM
Mar 2017

My employer-provided health care coverage has in fact gone up double digits for the last 4 years. JUST to cover myself and my wife, it costs OVER $14,000 A YEAR, counting both what I pay in and what my employer pays in. That is beyond the pale of what we should be paying.

And for what?

Shitty, rationed healthcare with financially crippling copays.

So, you know what? I have two words for the Republicans concerning what to replace the ACA for if they decide to repeal it.

SINGLE

PAYER


Medicare for ALL Americans.

Hey, I've got a GREAT idea! Take the $84 billion you were going to use to bloat up our already hugely powerful military and instead PUT IT INTO SINGLE PAYER HEALTH CARE.

Face it, it is a GOOD use of OUR taxes that WE pay in to OUR government, that is supposed to be OF, BY and FOR us, the American people.

WHY, WHY, WHY can't we use OUR tax money for a program that actually benefits us instead of some bullshit new fighter or worse, more gestapo like ICE agents.

You want to CLEAR THE SWAMP???

Start with ICE.

Honeycombe8

(37,648 posts)
24. Just because you get a subsidy does NOT mean a premium is low...
Wed Mar 1, 2017, 11:23 PM
Mar 2017

Cost is cost. SOMEONE is paying it. I hate this argument that a policy doesn't REALLY cost $950 a month because you get a subsidy. Yes, it DOES cost $950 a month. The subsidy just offsets the cost for the insured. But someone else is paying for the subsidy.

The subsidy system also doesn't work well. It's based on projected or estimated income for the next year. Many people don't know exactly what their income will be the next year. Many have rec'd subsidies all year, only to find they made too much for that subsidy and have to pay part of it back, or are disqualified for it entirely.

If it weren't for a subsidy, I wouldn't be able to afford it at all. My premium is over $900 a month. Not because I'm sick or have a medical condition. I'm extremely healthy. I'm an insurer's dream customer...no diabetes high cholesterol, weight problem, high blood pressure. Nothing. But I'm over 60. So I automatically have to pay a super high premium...because I have to pay for the high claims that other people are turning in, and because I'm the ONLY age group they are allowed to discriminate against.

Latest Discussions»General Discussion»Robert Reich on dt's lies...