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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsNYT report appears to confirm COLLUSION Between Trump Aides & Russian Officials During Campaign
Last edited Fri Mar 3, 2017, 10:36 AM - Edit history (1)
The NYTimes report not only confirms mtgs between Trump aides & Russian officials during the campaign but appears to confirm COLLUSION:
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/01/us/politics/obama-trump-russia-election-hacking.html
UPDATED TO INCLUDE:
House Intelligence Committee member Rep. Trey Gowdy (R-SC) said Thursday that information about Attorney General Jeff Sessions' conversations with a Russian ambassador "should never have made it to the public domain."
"We cannot overlook the fact that the methodology of the collection and the content of that transcript never should have made into the public domain," Gowdy said in an appearance on MSNBC. "And people may like that it did today, because it hurts Republicans, but what it really does is it hurts our country because you are leaking classified information."
https://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/trey-gowdy-sessions-contact-with-russia-information-should-never-have-become-public
http://www.dailykos.com/stories/2017/3/3/1639725/-Did-Trey-Gowdy-tell-us-there-is-a-TRANSCRIPT-of-Jeff-Sessions-s-call-to-the-Russian-ambassador
Norbert9
(494 posts)Too many Benedict Arnolds in this administration
We failed to kill the cancer after the Civil war & it festered & thrived into the PUTINPUBLICAN Party.
Jeff Davis, Bobbie Lee & all the top Confederate generals & politicians should had nooses around their traitorous necks.
brutus smith
(685 posts)cilla4progress
(24,724 posts)When I hear that cracker Sessions talk...sugar wouldn't melt in his mouth...I can totally see him in a KKK robe. Are there no photos?
These are white supremacists in the White House, ladies and gentlemen
gordianot
(15,237 posts)Super max for life minimum and I would not argue other forms of Capital Punishment for Treason. Until recently I have not been a death penalty advocate for any crime. For me life in a jail cell is Capital Punishment, death by expiration.
Tommy_Carcetti
(43,164 posts)Things did not go well under Robespierre.
Achilleaze
(15,543 posts)Illegitimate. They did not win the White House or the Senate. And their "majority" in the House should be way smaller.
Illegitimate. republicans committed treason against the people of the United States of America.
disgusting
OliverQ
(3,363 posts)By putting Clinton in office for an obvious fraud against her and the American people.
lagomorph777
(30,613 posts)The whole RePutin party will pay the price for treason.
OliverQ
(3,363 posts)But I'm not convinced people like Ryan, McConnell, Nunes, Burr, Chaffetz, etc. will ever get in trouble for trying to cover this up.
lagomorph777
(30,613 posts)Plenty of video clips of these guys aligning with the coup plotters.
OliverQ
(3,363 posts)McConnell and Rubio are locked in for 6 years. Chaffetz is in a gerrymandered district that's almost impossible to break.
lagomorph777
(30,613 posts)What a great job that will be.
karynnj
(59,501 posts)The problem is that there is no way that you can spool back everything in the campaign that had anything to do with the Russian actions and determine the result in the Presidential race and the Congressional races. There are too many factors that could have determined who voted and who they voted for.
Assuming that the interference changed the result gives Russia a victory that is likely not deserved. Here is a try at listing the possible things that might have impacted the race.
- The DNC hack story might have made the difference between HRC getting some portion of the voters who typically did not vote but were brought out by Bernie. Bernie and many of his supporters did try to reach these people. It is certainly possible that there was at least a small group of people for whom these leaks made that impossible.
- The Podesta emails - I read the wikileaks every day fearing for what would be there -- and other than seeing the same ordinary organizational stuff - including some 'in family" criticism of HRC, there was almost nothing. The one thing that was a problem was a copy of a Goldman Sacks speech or draft, where in 2014 she was more positive on TPP. This matched her public position at that time, but it did bring up that she had changed her position. (Not a crime and prudent if facts change)
From this, I would have said that this did very little, but I heard Obama's comment that you can't know how the drip of these stories changed the last important weeks of the campaign. It meant that she, not Trump, was the one spoken.
- On the other side, I would have guessed (before the election) that the exposure of ties of multiple Trump aides to Russia and Obama administration statement that it was Russia which was responsible for the hacks. Add to that Trump's mysteriously positive comments on Putin. As someone born in 1950 who grew up in the Cold War, I can't believe that this did not make at least some Republicans either not vote or vote for Hillary. Note that this led to many establishment Republican foreign policy people to publicly say they could not support Trump.
- It should also be noted that publicly(Putin's comments) and through branded propaganda like RT and Sputnick, there was a narrative that Trump would get along better with Russia. (Ignoring that when our interests alligned, the Obama administration was already working with Russia.) We saw this here - on DU.
I seriously can not say that without the interference HRC would have won ... or would have lost. The election was close. In addition, there is the elephant (or FBI head) in the room. The DNC hack info was right before a very positive convention -- and HRC was not seen by either pundits or polls to have been hurt by that info. I suspect because it really would not have been news that the majority of DNC operatives were supporting HRC and had been since she left the State Department -- remember early on in public polls she pulled about 70 percent. Where you CAN see a huge shift in the race was when Comey put out the letter 13 days before the election that there were more emails on Weiner's computer.
It is far easier to make a case that Comey changed the election. (Now, maybe he was working for the Russians ..... not likely.)
The issue though is NOT that Russia succeeded in changing the election, but that 1) they tried and for that we issued sanctions as punishment and 2) people allied with the sitting President may have been in conversation with them at the time and 3) in the worst case there was an offered quid por quo -- removal of the sanctions issued because of Ukraine and Crimea.
The NYT and WP stories are addressing 2 and 3. This is - like many things under Trump - a completely new world. The idea that either party would not reject a foreign country - and a hostile one at that - interfering in an American election is beyound shocking and I have no idea where the line is for treason. Note that condoning and allowing interference has not been proven yet, and whether it was successful or not doen't matter.
brush
(53,759 posts)The press just has to keep the pressure on with their reporting which will force independent prosecutors (newspapers usually break the stories then broadcast news jumps in).
karynnj
(59,501 posts)the result without interference. Now, assume that your view is that the interference led to more Democrats being dismayed and not voting -- that means that without the interference, we would have a Clinton presidency, with a totally different cabinet, agenda, SC pick etc AND possibily a few changes - such as Feingold and McCinty as Senators -- meaning with 50 and Clinton, we control the Senate.
Now, NOTHING in the DNC hacks or Podesta Hacks spoke badly of Feingold, a known quantity in Wisconsin, who saw his numbers fall drastically in the few polls done and whose internal polls showed enough problem that he atypically asked for help. This might mean that there was a huge anti Democratic (as the encumbent party) change wave that hit in those last months.
It is also possible that the hacks and Comey together led to Clinton's campaign having the last month filled with negative messages on why Trump was unsuitable rather than positive messages that might have actually accelerated the push for change - rather than countering it by defending what had been done. (Contrast that 2012 had "OBL is dead, GM is alive" as a push back to claims that Obama was not succeeding on the economy and FP.)
brush
(53,759 posts)resignations and impeachment.
It will be a major test of the Republican party to see if a Republican House would consider impeachment if the evidence becomes sufficiently clear. This certainly seems more "high crimes and misdemeanors" than lying (or misleading) about an embarrassing dalliance in the WH.
SHRED
(28,136 posts)...by the DNC hack was centered around turning off Bernie voters.
It did not change my vote as I knew the choice was obvious and critical. But I've heard from many ( with whom I disagree) that they felt so burned they sat out or went Stein.
In swing states that was crucial.
Bernardo de La Paz
(48,988 posts)karynnj
(59,501 posts)My point is that redos and corrections never really are possible. Here, no matter what is found, we will have a Republican President, with a Republican Senate and House. On a personal level, it means that HRC will not become the 2017 President. (Just as Gore was not put in, even when it was later proven that he actually did win the most votes in FL or more comparably, Kerry for which there is clearer evidence that voter suppression in Ohio cost him the votes to win)
Going forward, the government, needs to seriously know what happened and what the contacts were in the Trump campaign. If Trump KNEW and encouraged Putin, especially if he spoke of sanctions, I find it hard to believe that this is not high crimes and misdemeanors - and a Republican House - in spite of party - should impeach. (One question is whether the crime needs to be done while President)
Bernardo de La Paz
(48,988 posts)Need to have independent permanent commissions to draw district lines.
Need to roll back voter suppression laws, as permanently as possible.
karynnj
(59,501 posts)They are essential to our democracy. Gerrymandering is now on steroids as it is so simple to think of how to program a computer to use the lowest level vote totals available to redesign "optimal" congressional districts. However, it would seem that an independent permanent commission could define appropriate rules. It could be tricky to both insure minority communities get representation and that we avoid having a small number of 80 plus % Democratic districts and a large number of about 55% Republican districts -- leading to the current situation where a nearly 50/50 state ends up with 60/40 Republicans/Democrats or worse.
druidity33
(6,445 posts)- Pass excellent Campaign Finance Laws and repeal Citizen's United.
- institute Mail in Vote
- Automatic registration at 18
- open source + secure + verifiable voting machines (where applicable ie. tabulators),...
- institute IRV
my 2pennies
Bernardo de La Paz
(48,988 posts)Marthe48
(16,927 posts)every single person elected as a republican has questionable loyalty to the U.S. Every single republican who keeps defending trump-putin is not upholding their sworn oath of defending the Constitution of the U.S.A. And they need to be relieved of duty.
deminks
(11,014 posts)wiggs
(7,811 posts)TNLib
(1,819 posts)in the presidential election and they are on tape.
It's proof of collusion.
Botany
(70,483 posts)I want to know how deep Mitch McConnell and Paul Ryan were into working w/
the Russians.
triron
(21,994 posts)He is complicit.
JudyM
(29,225 posts)yallerdawg
(16,104 posts)literally said "Cut it out" to Putin.
That was just shorthand from Obama, telling us the US threatened to 'virtually' blow them out of the water - we got it, but you know how assholes spin shit.
Javaman
(62,510 posts)to paraphraw "a few good men": trump can't handle the truth.
jmg257
(11,996 posts)The Russians were arguing with the Russians in THEIR conversations...what was happening the in the meetings with trump's people is unclear.
The nature of the contacts remains unknown. Several of Mr. Trumps associates have done business in Russia, and it is unclear if any of the contacts were related to business dealings.
Nitram
(22,776 posts)Keep it coming!
BSdetect
(8,998 posts)Merlot
(9,696 posts)spanone
(135,814 posts)eggplant
(3,911 posts)We have a process for impeachment and succession.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)cilla4progress
(24,724 posts)the Senate.