What's HRC looking at? Oh....got it.

[ehrnst]

Link to tweet

[lunatica]

1. Good for the Goose, good for the Gander

[Hortensis]

8. EXTREMELY different. Real, tremendous corruption

versus highly corrupt lies about a good candidate for president.

[calimary]

17. And don't forget - there's projection EVERYWHERE!!!

Anybody notice the irony? EVERYTHING trump has accused Hillary of doing (like lying, cheating, rigging the game, gaming the system, corruption, in bed with Wall Street) - HE is doing, and in spades.

[Blanks]

2. They're very different...

The democrats think that Hillary probably shouldn't have used a personal server, but the republicans don't care that Pence did pretty much the same thing and was hacked (to include the classified DHS update that all governors receive).

That's the difference, THEY (republicans) don't care.

[loyalsister]

3. The party's position was still that she should be president

How much can we really claim to have cared? Not really all that much. We are in no position to criticize now. Did we really not see this coming?

[JI7]

4. we can attack them on their hypocrisy

[Raine1967]

6. Exactly. Thank you.

Not in the mood for people trying to act like we don;t have a right to say something about this.

Her server was never hacked.

[loyalsister]

7. And they fire back

It is a "I know you are but what am I argument." It's stupid and self inflicted and the party should have seen it coming.

[JI7]

10. so fucKing respond back to them with their hypocrisy and bs like people are doing in this thread

[loyalsister]

12. And expect to be taken seriously?

Really?

[JI7]

13. yes. ridiculing them works since it's true with them

[DK504]

16. the GOPee

doesn't give a shit. No one ever does a damn thing about it, we just let it keep going being fine if they just resign.

[JI7]

20. changes in demographics is what it will take just like in california

[Blanks]

9. You don't see us chanting "lock him up"...

Like a bunch of morons. That's another way that it's very different.

[loyalsister]

11. There's nothing new about republican hyperbole and overcriminalization

It's just that it is and always was about secrecy. It's just not reasonable or credible to defend it then turn around and criticize it when it's the opposition. Kind of like how people said Rs had no room to criticize Weiner after Vitter's creepy activities. My feeling was they can have their creeps and low standards if that's okay with them, I would hope ours would be higher.
It's a matter of basic consistency.

[Blanks]

14. There's a little more to it than that...

Governors receive classified information from DHS via email.

Just because he was following the law doesn't mean that he isn't EVEN MORE GUILTY because his email was hacked. He was in the position of passing laws that address known problems.

It isn't just that he was critical of Hillary having her own server (which was not hacked) there is a strong possibility that classified information fell into the hands of hackers due to his negligence as governor.

Instead of leading the "lock her up" chant, he should have been talking to his state assembly about passing laws tightening up email standards.

It's more than hypocrisy, it's blatant incompetence.

[loyalsister]

15. It was never about the content of the emails

Only fools tried to reach to the conclusion that Hillary was irresponsible with her email, as would be the case now. It was and is all about the secrecy.

[Blanks]

18. It wasn't ALL about the content...

But when Trump invited the Russians to hack her last year, he was looking for the deleted emails, that's content.

A large portion of the criticism came from the fact that there were improperly handled classified emails. That's what the Comey stunt just before the election was about, that's content.

So, they are all a bunch of fools, but that's what the conservative opposition was up to. Normally they'd be the only message we'd be concerned with, are you the 'new concern'?

[loyalsister]

21. Nothing new about it

Justifying secrecy bothered me then, and it bothers me now- just as it bothered me during the Bush administration.

[Blanks]

23. Classified information is 'secret'...

Pretty much by definition. What was Hillary being secret about that bothers you so much?

[loyalsister]

24. The motivation and process

There were rules set up for maintaining email communications on a government server - because of what was discovered about Colin Powell and Condeleeza Rice. Not following procedure designed to facilitate transparency suggests that a government official is trying to avoid having information available for FOIA requests. Most of us certainly thought that was what Powell and Rice were up to.

[Blanks]

25. She turned over the emails...

She had attorneys present when the emails were deleted to verify that they were personal emails. She admitted that it was a bad decision, but there were known problems with the government email system, as is common with many government systems.

In the grand scheme of things, it's not (to me) that big a deal. Pursuing this email 'scandal' is as silly as the Benghazi investigation. If she'd just taken it upon herself to choose which emails to delete, I'd have been more suspicious.

Collin Powel lied to congress about Iraq's capabilities, information that led us into a war, that's a much bigger deal.

[loyalsister]

26. After the fact

The oversight of emails was forced by the discovery of a personal and private server that was not approved to be a substitute for the governmental system. I don't give credit for a person doing what is required because they got caught.

If the assessment of that investigation was as ridiculous as Bengazi, to do anything but defend Pence is hypocrisy.

[Blanks]

27. We are, unfortunately, to the point...

Where I have to repeat myself.

Pence actually had classified information hacked (DHS communications) and did not take any steps as governor to 'tighten up security'.

The United States Secretary of State deals with a whole bunch of classified material. One of the things you learn when you get a security clearance is that YOU DON'T TALK ABOUT IT. Obviously, she would be in violation of her security clearance 'going public with her own private server'.

There is nothing hypocritical about condemning Pence, who actually had classified information hacked, while not being critical of Hillary for not having classified information hacked.

If you look at all of the factors, what he has done (really, not done) is a threat to national security while what she did was not.

[loyalsister]

28. It was never about the content of the email

Speculation of classified information leaks is theater designed to produce extreme and irrational responses. The real issue was about maintaining communications in order to ensure transparency. If it's okay to take that risk in one case you can't comdemn it in another.

[Blanks]

29. There is no transparency when it comes to classified information...

It's not a particularly difficult concept to grasp.

It is wrong for Pence to pretend that he did not receive classified information, at a time when he was the commander in chief of the Indiana National Guard, while being critical of Secretary Clinton for improperly dealing with classified information.

It isn't that she shouldn't have had a private server, and it isn't that the situations don't have similarities, but there are enough differences that I have no problem with being critical of Pence while merely chastising her by saying that she should not have had a private server.

In one sense, I agree with Pence, the situations are different, where Pence and I disagree is that I believe what he did was actually worse. He lied about classified information being hacked as a result of his negligence, and he took no steps to prevent future hacking of classified information while he was in a position to do so.

But this whole line of reasoning that we all should be able to look at the secretary of state's email for government transparency sake is foolishness. Not even all members of congress should have access to those communications. Too many are classified.

[loyalsister]

30. Transparency and FOIA are typically valued by democrats

It's an essential "just in case" policy because it is entirely possible to have a severely corrupt government, and we need to have the right to explore their communications. This has to apply across the board. Anyone tries to duck it should have to answer for it.

"this whole line of reasoning that we all should be able to look at the secretary of state's email for government transparency sake is foolishness"
So, is the call for transparency in this Russia thing also foolish? Would it be foolish to demand that if there was evidence that the new SOS had suspicious communications?

We respect transparency because sometimes we need to question whether the evidence and testimony are aligned. Remember Colin Powell?

[Blanks]

31. We have an intelligence community...

That reports to our elected representatives, they (congress, the White House) have the necessary clearances to hear the information, and they make certain decisions based on the importance of what information is important to be kept secret in the interest of national security.

We can't just spill classified information into the news cycle without compromising national security.

Now, having said that, I recognize that there is 'security creep' a lot of information is classified for CYA purposes, but fixing that problem by making all of the secretary of state's official correspondence a matter of public record is not a realistic solution.

[loyalsister]

32. I'm talking about citizen oversight with a healthy questioning of government

No one is recommending that the documents be put on display- only that they are available for FOIA requests. And obviously classified documents are not fr public consumption. Is it not a reasonable assumption that intelligence officials also have potential to be corrupt and misrepresent evidence.

Any and all public servants should comprehend and accept and even embrace the fact that their public role makes their professional communications our business.

[Blanks]

33. I'll admit that it was reckless of her...

To mix official government correspondence with personal emails like baby showers and such, but I still think that's not as bad as having classified communications hacked in the way that Pence did.

I expect we will just have to agree to disagree, but I appreciate the tone of the discussion.

Have a nice day.

[triron]

5. She's thinking what?

[spanone]

19. K&R...

[Cha]

22. Hillary!

[alarimer]

34. Worse- he used AOL!

Who the hell uses AOL anymore? Most of us moved on to Gmail or something. Not that that is any more secure or any less of an issue when it comes to public office holders. The point is that Pence and company use private email to evade the public record requirements of state government.

I'm not sure what the requirements are for federal officials, but I do know there are requirements for archiving and storing communications in general, which is maybe why this was an issue for Hillary. I don't think she was trying to evade anything. I think it was simply easier because the federal government has some issues with keeping up with modern technology.