We need to stop the BULLSHIT Notion that this wasn't TREASON bc it is.

[LaydeeBug]

Under Article III, Section 3, of the Constitution, any person who levies war against the United States or adheres to its enemies by giving them Aid and Comfort has committed treason within the meaning of the Constitution. The term aid and comfort refers to any act that manifests a betrayal of allegiance to the United States, such as furnishing enemies with arms, troops, transportation, shelter, or classified information. If a subversive act has any tendency to weaken the power of the United States to attack or resist its enemies, aid and comfort has been given.

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Treason

I'm getting a little sick of people saying this wasn't treason because it wasn't a declared war. Cyber war *is* still war.

This isn't *just* espionage. It's *treason*.

[Squinch]

1. Yes!

[N_E_1 for Tennis]

2. Yes it is!

[unblock]

3. so you wanna say a state of war exists with a nuclear power while donnie's got the nuclear football?

leaving aside any discussion of the technical, legal accuracy of the matter, i still think the political downside of using the term "treason" far outweighs the political upside. at best it's an unnecessary distraction.

we all agree that donnie and many in the republican party conspired with russia to commit espionage against america and private interests in america and they merrily used the contraband obtained for personal and political profit.

that's plenty horrible.

[The Sand Reckoner]

4. The use of the term treason"

Has had no political downside at all for Republicans, who have hurled that accusation at every opportunity. Your attitude is why the Republican message keeps winning out and why the Democrats lose more elections than they win. Stop worrying about hurting right wing fee-fees, and punch them in the face.

[unblock]

5. espionage against america means nothing then? rofl!

[The Sand Reckoner]

17. So what is that supposed to mean?

Are you saying we can't call it treason AND espionage?

Sheesh. Makes me wonder what your agenda is here.

[unblock]

19. funny. yeah, me and my 30k+ posts, all just an agenda since 2001

waiting for the moment when eventually i could reveal my true self by accusing a traitor of mere espionage against america for personal profit.

hah! victory is mine, the long con paid off!

[The Sand Reckoner]

21. So your answer to the question is what?

Why can't this be called treason AND espionage? Your response was based on the rather dubious notion that by calling this treason, someone was necessarily ignoring the almost as serious charge of espionage. Why would you imply something so silly?

[unblock]

24. you're the one making silly assumptions up, not me.

i'll stick to accusing them of the "almost as serious" capital offense of espionage against america for personal profit even though you apparently thing that amounts to worrying about their fee-fees and is not hitting them in the face.

feel free to go on making stuff up about other people's posts and stirring the shit.

[The Sand Reckoner]

28. In other words

you have no answer to a simple, direct question about your own post. Always a red flag and a good reason to stir shit.

[unblock]

31. really? the question about whether "we" could call it both treason and espionage?

clearly you can't handle that, because anyone who calls it espionage is has an agenda and is worried about their fee-fees.

[The Sand Reckoner]

33. You actually think people reading this

can't see you dodging and dancing? No, you can't be that naive. Just admit you've been pantsed and move on, dude.

[unblock]

34. my position is clear, as is my reputation. yours is now clear as well.

[LaydeeBug]

7. welcome to du, and thank you for that. I am sick of bringing a knife to a gun fight, TREASON

[LaydeeBug]

6. Nice try at the slippery slope, but what I *want* and what it *is* are different things.

It's treason though...plain and simple.

[onenote]

22. "plain and simple"

Last edited Sun Mar 12, 2017, 05:19 PM - Edit history (1)

Words that on their face demonstrate that the person uttering them doesn't know very much about the history and scope of the crime of treason.

Since you apparently agree that any act that has "any tendency to weaken the power of the United States to attack or resist its enemies" constitutes treason, you also think that its "plain and simple" that these folks committed treason:

Jane Fonda, Ramsey Clark and others who went to Hanoi during the Vietnam War
All of those Americans who evaded the draft by going to Canada
All of those Americans who counseled others about how to evade the draft.
All of those Americans who blocked the entrance to military installations or recruitment offices.

While the repubs would have it otherwise, we are still, and we should insist we remain, a nation of laws. And under the law, treason is very narrow -- it involves waging war by taking up arms against the country ("levying war&quot or giving material assistance to those that are waging war against the US. What constitutes war and who is an 'enemy' have legal meanings.

If treason has been committed, then you believe a state of war exists between the US and Russia. In which case I would ask: what are the rules of war that govern this conflict? How does the US respond? Militarily by attacking Moscow? How does the war end? With unconditional surrender? Regime change? And if the US and Russia are in a state of war, why do our countries continue to have diplomatic relations? Why do hundreds of thousands of American visit Russia as tourists or for business? Why is there billions of dollars of bilateral trade between the two countries?

The one thing that is plain and simple is that what constitutes "Treason" -- a crime that, consistent with Constitutional intent, has rarely been prosecuted in this country's history -- isn't plain and simple.

And shouting that it is won't change that.

[LaydeeBug]

29. words the suggest someone is unfamiliar with the scope of treason to be DAMN sure

and the slippery slope between colluding with a hostile foreign country to infiltrate our election and subvert the election process and an actress voicing objection to a war is weak to be sure.

Conflate much?

And, as many, many people, pundits and politicos have stated: it doesn't *matter* what we've done in this country before...we are in unchartered territory here as the scope of this TREASON is indeed, unprecedented.

Happy to catch you up though.

Not backing down one bit: TREASON

[onenote]

30. Since you used capital letters, i guess you must be right.

Not.

As is usually the case, the people who claim something is "plain and simple" have no answers for any of the not so plain and simple questions about their position.

[Enoki33]

11. Agree totally. Treason is in fact the unspoken deduction

simmering in the minds of the populace. It is politically powerful enough to be left there .

[uponit7771]

8. Amen and Amen!!! There are some on DU who CONTINUE to intimate this was a free and fair election no

... matter the waterfall of ... TRUE ... information that says the opposite.

[JTFrog]

9. Onos! You invoked treason!!!

I heard we are all DOOMED now!

You did it. You said the words that are apparently worse to utter than the treason these fuckers are committing.

At least according to some who will come and tell us how evil we are for not understanding our constitution because only THEY can interpret our constitution for us.

Forget that we have top Republicans calling Russia's interference an act of war. Forget that we have constitutional scholars, Harvard Law Professors and experts across the country calling it treason.

Nope you shall be shamed and scolded by the holier than thou.

But BRAVA for saying it anyway! I stand with you!!

[radical noodle]

10. Some seem to forget that cyber warfare

has the potential of being deadly. I totally agree with you LaydeeBug.

[Ligyron]

13. There outta be a law...

Clearly defining it as such.

[benld74]

12. As was Cheney

[LaydeeBug]

15. Yep. Straight up war crimes right there. Dems just decided to "look forward"

and not hold them to account.

This is, in part, a result of that.

[Eyeball_Kid]

14. If there's such a thing as "Treason Lite", it's all to which the GOP will ever concede.

"Oh, it's probably treasonous, but it's not so bad that a hand slap won't be good enough." This kind of quote will emanate from Jason Chaffetz if he gets backed into a corner and has to admit that SOMETHING went wrong. But he'll not be the Oversight Chairman who will demand further inquiries. That will have to be led by someone who chairs the committee after 2024, because Mr. Chaffetz is still backlogging investigations into Hillary's emails and won't have the time for some haywire TREASON claims.

[Botany]

16. It was and still is a coup and the people who supported are guilty of treason.

n/t

[rzemanfl]

18. "Traitors" is a word I think we can all agree on. n/t

[Botany]

27. nice right wing talking points

'There are probably some enemies being sheltered in 'sanctuary cities'

We should probably be very careful with this part .... your concern is noted

[FreepFryer]

23. Whether or not its the eventual charge, its the essential charge. There is no stopping us. (n/t)

[ananda]

25. Agree!

It's treason and criminal financial dealings with corrupt countries
and groups that support terrorism.

And yes, it's that bad; and yes, it can still get worse since nobody
is doing anything about it.

[riverbendviewgal]

26. I think it is subversion.

My US History teacher predicted this 52 years ago. The implosion of the USA.

[TheFrenchRazor]

32. pretty much. collusion with a foreign power against america; what else is it? nt

[triron]

35. kick for visibility