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mia

(8,360 posts)
Sun Mar 12, 2017, 01:25 PM Mar 2017

Instead of charter schools, why don't they have classes for kids who want to learn

within the public schools?

I've been a teacher for all of my 45 years. The first half, in private schools, and the second half, in public. Private school teachers don't have to tolerate chronic misbehavior. Public school teachers must.

Our biggest problems come from the daily disruptions brought about by classroom misbehavior. Second on the list, is that that many children come from homes where education isn't valued. These children come to school unprepared and they rarely do their homework. They fall behind, and often become behavior problems. The cycle goes on and on.

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Instead of charter schools, why don't they have classes for kids who want to learn (Original Post) mia Mar 2017 OP
That's a pretty weak solution based on a weak premise. Exilednight Mar 2017 #1
Yes. Wellstone ruled Mar 2017 #2
Well said, but when mia Mar 2017 #3
When I had teachers who actually knew what they were doing. Exilednight Mar 2017 #4
or had time to try Piasladic Mar 2017 #8
Weak premise built on an even weaker premise. Igel Mar 2017 #10
I'm not saying our education system does not need to be Exilednight Mar 2017 #12
WoW... As a former administrator (public & private)... MedusaX Mar 2017 #5
When I sub teach within 30 minutes I know the kids who do not have home support kimbutgar Mar 2017 #6
Yes, and school administrators continue to maintain that teachers should be able to solve mia Mar 2017 #7
I completely disagree with your premise...you need education for all...compulsory... Demsrule86 Mar 2017 #9
WTF is this shit right here. RedWedge Mar 2017 #11
Where's the profit in that? Wounded Bear Mar 2017 #13
You've been a teacher since you were born? Starry Messenger Mar 2017 #14
This message was self-deleted by its author tblue37 Mar 2017 #15

Exilednight

(9,359 posts)
1. That's a pretty weak solution based on a weak premise.
Sun Mar 12, 2017, 01:41 PM
Mar 2017

I was a disruptor in school, never did my homework and never paid attention.

I was tested and found to be "gifted" and school bored the shit out of me. My father pushed me hard at home, but my teachers never challenged me until I was placed in a grade more suited for my learning.

I find the bigger problem to be their personal circumstances at home coupled with overcrowded schools and poorly prepared teachers.

I believe there are a lot of teachers out their with good intentions, but do not have the necessary skills to teach. I had teachers that were awesome and knew how to stimulate my curiosity and I had teachers who had no place in a classroom.

Igel

(35,296 posts)
10. Weak premise built on an even weaker premise.
Sun Mar 12, 2017, 10:26 PM
Mar 2017

Most of the disruptors aren't that small percentage of the small percentage of GT in public schools.

The OPs right, but American exceptionalists still running the same kind of experiment that failed in China, the Soviet Union, Sa'udiyya, and numerous other countries can't admit it. To do so would be ego-crushing.

We praise Finland, say we want to emulate it, and focus on in-class traditional work. The Czechs and Germans got it before the Finns did. Test kids; those in category A put in vocational classes; those in category B do skilled jobs; those in C are bound for a liberal arts field; those in D shove into technical fields. Figure out how many experts in X you need, fund that many slots plus a few extra for shrinkage. Make sure there's a way to reposition kids who are wrongly labelled.

Instead we have a one-size-fits-all mentality, and it sucks. It means that I had an ADHD kid in my class who needed a minder. Turn away for a minute and he's in the hall. Take 3 minutes to get him into the classroom and the 8 or so kids who see no point in school at all go off task. Get them on task and the ADHD kid's already into the next hall. And the other 20 students? And if I'm doing a lab at the time? It's the system. Such kids should have an aide--but out of respect for the individual such an aide must be requested by the parents, and while Congress said they'd fund SpEd and special services they haven't--even under Obama, even under Clinton.

Why did he need a minder? Because his father fought the idea of drugs for his kid, then took them away to punish him for backtalk. And told me it was my fault because I should be able to handle the kid in a class with 29 other students while trying to instruct them and to the administrative overhead ... even though the father just had one kid and couldn't handle him. The dad got him his meds. Now he sleeps because he's groggy. Either way, I'm failing him. Don't know what to do differently. Between his biology and his father, I'm a bad teacher.

Of course it doesn't help that teens' biology say "go-go-go" on the average until past 11 pm, and they should sleep until long after dawn. It's only recently that we've seen daylight before first period bell, but that's no longer the case with DST. Again, bad system. Their biology is my personal responsibility.

It's the same with the mother who beamed when she told me her kid was finally old enough to quit school and get a real job. As a bagger at Safeway.

And the mother who had no problem with her kid failing spring semester classes so he was a sophomore on his 20th birthday. Because it gave him extended time in the fall to be on the football team. "College? No, he'll be NFL, a starter from his first day." Kid read at an elementary school level. He was a sophomore still when he turned 21 and was exited from the public education system.

Let's not mention the "personal circumstance" of the kid who fell for the NBP's racist bullshit. "I ain't learning this. Ohn's law is white people's law, it doesn't apply to black people. We need black people to come up with our own laws. Those I'd learn." Words failed me then; they fail me now. He obviously fell for the "Black Lies Matter" propaganda. His mother was pissed when it was two weeks before graduation she realized he was failing and wouldn't graduate. She apologized for him.

Personal circumstances. Indeed.

As for overcrowding, I can handle a class of 35 and screw up a class of 20. Depends on the kids. It can even be the exact same teacher, subject, topic, materials, presentation or lab. "Differentiate" is a buzzword based on "learning styles," but all that does is cater to preferences; as for actual learning styles, there ain't no evidence. It's socially constructed knowledge that rests on small sample sizes and no controls and lots of "I assume" and "I feel".

Exilednight

(9,359 posts)
12. I'm not saying our education system does not need to be
Mon Mar 13, 2017, 01:31 PM
Mar 2017

Overhauled.

My argument is simple. Too many teachers are focused on the material they're teaching, and not in their approach. There are teachers teaching subjects that they know little about. I have an MBA and masters in economic theory, but i am the last person you want teaching physics. To be fair, I'm probably one of the last people you want teaching a classroom of children.

I wish we could bring ng the Finnish model here. They not only changed how they teach, they reduced their classroom size, feed the kids breakfast lunch and dinner while also providing tutoring.

MedusaX

(1,129 posts)
5. WoW... As a former administrator (public & private)...
Sun Mar 12, 2017, 01:59 PM
Mar 2017

Three things come to mind:

1. Classroom Management
2. Effective Teaching Practices
3. Diversified Instruction

Kids know which teachers truly believe in them.

Kids know which teachers accept them and desire to teach them unconditionally.

Most importantly, kids certainly know which teachers have already written them off just because of their home environment.

The "cycle", to which you refer, is perpetuated by a school system whose teachers are either unwilling or unprepared to meet the educational needs of the students they are being paid to educate.


kimbutgar

(21,111 posts)
6. When I sub teach within 30 minutes I know the kids who do not have home support
Sun Mar 12, 2017, 03:15 PM
Mar 2017

I think that is the most compelling reason the kids who struggle have parents who don't care. A generation ago parents were not so stressed out to survive basic living necessaities and had time for their kids. Nowadays both parents work 2-3 jobs and they are too tired to deal with their children and these kids end up in classrooms without structure at home or a good diet. And the only guidance they have is in a classroom where the teacher is dealing with 20-40 kids with different abilities and temperments. I had one girl last year in a class I took over for the remainder of the school year. She was 7 years old and still peeing her pants. I wanted to talk to her parents about things we could do together to help her but the parents never returned my calls or emails. There are a lot of parents out there like this and charter schools will not address these types of problems.

mia

(8,360 posts)
7. Yes, and school administrators continue to maintain that teachers should be able to solve
Sun Mar 12, 2017, 04:55 PM
Mar 2017

our society's problems during the school day. It's a no-win situation for the children and their families. It's no wonder that parents are looking toward charter schools for the answer.

Demsrule86

(68,539 posts)
9. I completely disagree with your premise...you need education for all...compulsory...
Sun Mar 12, 2017, 05:14 PM
Mar 2017

I taught school for quite a few years as well...I don't mean to be unkind but if I felt as you do, I would retire.

Starry Messenger

(32,342 posts)
14. You've been a teacher since you were born?
Mon Mar 13, 2017, 01:42 PM
Mar 2017

My worst experiences as a student were at private school--misbehavior is tolerated from the kid with rich parents. I was counseled to leave when my bullies wouldn't let up, but my mom was a struggling single mom, so no great loss to the school.

My public school students enjoy learning from me, since part of my classroom management is to work to build a sense of community. I rarely deal with chronic misbehavior as a result.

Response to mia (Original post)

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