General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsJust listening to Ali Velshi trying to talk to a Trumpcare supporter...
offering the old "market oriented" solution for health care.
The problem of course, is that unregulated health care rapidly becomes an extortion racket. People facing life or death situations do not make rational decisions. They will sell/give everything they have to survive, or to support the survival of a loved one. The system will devolve into snake oil salesmen and outright extortionists basically saying "pay or die." And people will pay, and many will still die untimely deaths anyway.
The wealthy will be fine, as always. They will get good, professional care. The poor will suffer through and search for those few health care providers with a conscience who are actually in it to help people. There will never be enough of them, though.
ChoppinBroccoli
(3,764 posts)I was scrolling through my Facebook feed just this morning and saw a post from someone I don't know (a friend of one of my friends) made a post about how she has MS and is currently selling off everything she owns (she even apologized for putting so many "For Sale" notices on her Facebook page) just so she can SURVIVE. She wasn't complaining, and was actually up-beat, saying something to the effect of, "It's worth it to sell off everything I own, because I know I'm going to survive." It was heartbreaking.
I wanted so badly to write something about how this is the natural result of for-profit healthcare, and that in any other country on Earth, she wouldn't HAVE to sell off every possession she's accumulated over the course of a lifetime just to SURVIVE. But I didn't because I don't know this person and I didn't want to cast a pall on what was otherwise a rather up-beat, "I'm gonna make it" post.
So I found it funny that you posted this just now, because I was literally just minutes ago seeing a real-life example of it.
Wounded Bear
(58,437 posts)so many people out there going through that, even those with insurance are hardly immune. ACA helps some, but the idea that it needs fixing has been exploited by the RWers into [font size =5]Repeal[/font] and [font size = 0.5]replace[/font].
Best wishes to her and everybody facing that.
tblue37
(64,979 posts)on my co-pay from having surgery 2 years ago.
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,276 posts)I wonder if some of those damn fools even understand how insurance works - which is that you need enough people paying into the pool, or enough amounts (premiums) being paid in, to cover what has to be paid out in benefits. No insurance company wants to insure sick old people because the benefits paid out will exceed the amounts paid into the pool unless the premiums are so high nobody can realistically afford them. That's why we have Medicare. There is no free market alternative to Medicare.
Likewise, in order to insure everyone for everything - that is, no exclusions for pre-existing conditions and no lifetime benefit caps - the pool has to be very large. If a large number of younger, healthier people who are less likely to make large claims don't pay premiums there will not be enough money available to pay the claims of the smaller number people who do. The ACA tried to solve this problem with the mandate: If everybody has to buy insurance then there will be enough money to cover everybody who needs it. Obviously that's not a "free market" solution, which is why the GOP hates it. But they haven't been able to come up with an alternative that satisfies their free market dogma because there isn't one.
Wounded Bear
(58,437 posts)that Medicare only exists because insurance companies would not insure the elderly. At least not at any rates that normal retirees coudl afford.
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,276 posts)Wounded Bear
(58,437 posts)is that young healthy people can opt out and buy "only what they need."
Total ignorance of the basic concept of insurance.
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,276 posts)krispos42
(49,445 posts)It's a tool. Like all tools, it has a wide application range where it will work poorly, a narrow application range where it will work pretty well, and a smallish area where it will excel.
The Trump idiots think it's the universal tool.
Hey, I can pound nails with a socket wrench; doesn't mean it's a good idea.
Wounded Bear
(58,437 posts)all your problems start to look like nails.
krispos42
(49,445 posts)And let's not forget that the first thing that capitalism does is destroy the free market, because monopolies and such are far more profitable than actually having to compete based on innovation and effort.
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,276 posts)They believe it absolutely, even in the face of irrefutable evidence that it doesn't always work. In reality there is no such thing as a truly free market; even Ryan would agree that there are certain accepted constraints on the market, which operate mainly through the court system. Nevertheless, the free market cult believes there is no other way to address any aspect of the economy because any form of government regulation or control is socialism, which is heresy.
krispos42
(49,445 posts)Why is government interfering in the free market? <whine>
The tactics and strategies of the Mafia and the drug cartels are very pure capitalism.
Ultimately all systems must serve the people, because it is the people that make and consume things.
There is perfect free-market capitalism on Mars right now but nobody gives a shit because there are no people on Mars. Gross Martian Product = $0.00 per year.
renate
(13,776 posts)It's INSANE that a diagnosis of a serious illness isn't stressful enough... oh no, most people have to worry about bankrupting their families, too. And we pay extra for the privilege.
Nitram
(22,671 posts)Wounded Bear
(58,437 posts)The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,276 posts)to most people, and used government subsidies to do so; therefore it's not a true free-market solution. There is no way to provide affordable health insurance without government regulation. We really need a single-payer system but that won't happen with the GOP in charge.