DONT EVER LET ANYONE TELL YOU THAT WHAT YOU SEE WITH YOUR OWN EYES ISNT HAPPENING.

[kpete]

https://annie-pie.tumblr.com/post/156353988407/dont-ever-let-anyone-tell-you-that-what-you-see

[samnsara]

1. what happened to Steven?

[Kaleva]

4. He got expelled, turned to drugs and died a tragic death well before his time.

[tandem5]

49. After class is over the teacher looks up from her desk suddenly...

"Oh God! -- I forgot about Steve!"

[Stinky The Clown]

10. That's what you took away from that story?

[LudwigPastorius]

20. He eventually graduated,...

but had a hard time finding a job.

He now works in a sweatshop, cranking out internet memes for meager wages.

[Honeycombe8]

22. LOL! nt

[LastLiberal in PalmSprings]

53. He went to college, got a degree in education administration, returned to the school as principal

and fired her ass the week before she was to have retired.

[MineralMan]

2. Shame on that teacher for using a student as an

example in that way. That is completely unacceptable behavior on the teacher's part. I can assure you that I'd have stood up for that student had I been in that class. I spent a lot of time in the Principal's office for calling out such behavior from teachers.

It's an important lesson, but that's not the way to teach it.

I remember too many times when teachers singled out a student wrongly. Usually the students were Hispanics in my little home town. Too many teachers treated them with a complete lack of respect or open racism. When that happened, I would call out the teacher who treated them unfairly on the spot. I often ended up in the Principal's office, where I was perfectly capable of explaining the problem to the Principal. I was never punished by the Principal for bringing up such incidents, but I'm sure I got quite a reputation among the few truly bigoted teachers at that school. Over time, such incidents occurred less and less frequently, though, in the classes I was in.

[brush]

3. There's probably more to the story...I hope she had talked to Steven earlier or had the...

principal explain to him what was going on.

I'm guessing a teacher creative enough to come up with a way to ram home to his/her students how fascism works wouldn't do it at the expense of a one of his/her students.

[MineralMan]

6. Oh, I disagree. I've seen teachers do similar things during

my youth, and not after discussing it with the targeted student, either. If there is more to the story, it should have been included.

[brush]

8. Maybe the poster will add more to it. It seems cruel to do that, especially coming from...

a teacher who is obviously trying to teach and not just collect a paycheck.

[narnian60]

35. Thank you.

[unblock]

14. my experience is greatly at odds with this.

in my experience, the overwhelming majority of clever ideas are riddled with flaws unless and until they are very well crafted, almost always involving multiple trials and failures and revisions.

certainly edison would agree with me.

my own guess is that the story is apocryphal; but if it happened at all, at least the first time, the teacher most likely was focused on the point of the exercise and figured that explaining everything afterwards would be best. if anything, the teacher might be worried that the victim would give up the secret prematurely and ruin everything.

these sorts of things usually are either rejected as too problematic, or they become widely known exercises with standard procedures and cautions.

[delisen]

52. Teacher empathetic enough to teach that lesson arranged with Steven

in advance. She did not scapegoat him.

[Paka]

58. Thank you.

At 76 I have many good friends just now retiring who were wonderful teachers, and yes, a teacher that creative would do it right.

[Kaleva]

5. I'm pretty sure she had worked it out with Steven beforehand.

[MineralMan]

7. Why are you pretty sure about that?

There is nothing in that post that would indicate such a thing. I can tell you that I remember kids being used as the object of a lesson a number of times, and I don't remember it ever being pre-arranged.

[Iwasthere]

9. You are missing the point

[MineralMan]

15. Actually, I'm not.

[brush]

46. Have some optimism FHS. Some teachers try to do the right thing.

Last edited Sat Mar 18, 2017, 04:40 PM - Edit history (1)

You don't know and we don't know what happened with Steven. The teacher may have been one of the good guys.

[Kaleva]

16. There is no evidence that the student was unaware of what was to happen.

We don't even know if the story itself is real. The best I can find out about it is that it was written by a Allen C. Marshall but I don't know if it was fiction or based on a true event.

"An example closer to real-life experiences was provided by my childhood friend Mary Lois Brugler who posted the following story written by Allen C. Marshall. Marshall tells the story of a time in the seventh grade when the teacher told the students that one of them, Steven Webb Sladki, had not been taking notes as he had been instructed to do. For this infraction she was going to send him to the principal’s office. The other students saw that he was taking notes and tried to tell the teacher but they were shouted down. With no credible defenders the teacher made her case and escorted Steven out of the room. When she came back in she said, “See how easy that was.” It was easy to disbelieve one’s own experience and condemn a fellow student when the teacher refused to countenance any disagreement."

https://blogs.psychcentral.com/see-saw-parenting/2016/12/224-when-obedience-is-not-the-answer/

[skylucy]

12. Maybe Steve was "in on" the lesson. Maybe the teacher discussed what she wanted to do ahead of

time and Steve agreed to do it. If that was the case, Steve was probably thrilled to be chosen by the teacher to be an "actor" in the lesson. I was a teacher for 38 years and although I never did a lesson like this (I taught kindergarten), I have seen teachers in upper grades do similar lessons. The class ends up applauding and cheering for "Steve" (at the teachers direction) for doing a great job. Every kid in the class envies Steve and wishes the teacher had chosen them.

[MineralMan]

17. And maybe he was not.

The posting didn't say. I have little confidence that it was pre-arranged. In fact, I would be surprised if it were.

Still, it wouldn't have gone that way if I were a student in that class. I'd have stood up and told the teacher he/she was wrong. I did do that a number of times during my elementary and secondary school education. The lesson would have been, in those cases, that authorities are not always right and that someone will stand up and say so. A different lesson.

I've had excellent teachers and very, very poor teachers. I have had unbiased teachers and bigoted teachers. I do not assume that a teacher is wonderful unless I am shown that, and there was nothing in this story to indicate that any "acting" was done by a student.

[skylucy]

42. Wow.

[lunasun]

65. Agree . And do not ever let anyone negate what you saw and experienced either !

[jalan48]

18. I saw similar things myself in grade school. Certain kids were used as "examples" by teachers.

[MineralMan]

19. In my elementary school, it was always Hispanic kids who got

that treatment. And it was never planned in advance with the student. I always noticed, and always spoke up when it happened, even in the early grades. I always got sent to the Principal's office for my impudence. I got to know the Principal and he got to know me. That kind of thing happened less and less as I progressed through the grades, and generally was not repeated often in a class where I objected and was then sent to the Principal's office.

In 2013, I returned to that town for my 50th high school reunion. In a conversation with one of my old school friends with whom I had been in class since the first grade, he told me that he remembered me sticking up for him and other Hispanic kids in class, and thanked me for that.

I was not one of the quiet kids in class. I was never afraid to speak out when someone was being mistreated or wrongfully accused of something.

[jalan48]

50. It was good you stood up. It's easy for kids to be cowered by a teacher.

[Alice11111]

51. Courage is you. Hard to stand up for teachers in grade school

I saw Hispanics picked on too. It happened to me once in grade school.

[Honeycombe8]

23. Steven was in on it. And he likely did NOT go to the principal's office.

The lesson was not for Steven. It was for the others.

[skylucy]

43. I agree.

[Akamai]

33. My clear thought is that the teacher had it worked out with the student ahead of time.

What a great learning experience for the student, and for the class, if this was so!

Rather like the obedience studies that psychologist Stanley Milgram carried out in New Haven, demonstrating many people will succumb to high status, white-coated scientists, in administering ever-increasing shocks until finally there is no response from the "subject" (victim), etc.

This would be a demonstration that would lift pretty much forever in the minds of the students and probably would help motivate them to stand up more for the rights of others.

[MineralMan]

34. There was nothing in that paragraph about any

planning with that student. Why do you think that was the case? No evidence of that at all.

[Akamai]

37. it does seem to me that you are quick to find fault with that teacher.

and all the teachers I've had, there are quite a few who might subscribe to that activity if it taught the students in the class a good lesson, that none of us should take for granted the liberties and freedoms we have, that all of us should stand up when liberties and freedoms are diminished for others.

Indeed, her last statement to the class about them understanding the meaning of Ann Frank certainly indicates that this is the point that she wanted to make to her class, that she almost certainly wanted to make that point even before the students started taking notes. With such a humane interpretation and interest in the general topic, almost certainly she was being humane in the student that she "picked on" to demonstrate what she was saying.

I have been a member of Toastmasters Speaking Clubs since 1975, having met my very, very best better half there. I remain in the club, and sometimes we do work out with club members what we want them to say--with the rest of the club at that point not knowing that they are part of our presentation.

I think most people reading what was written earlier would subscribe to the belief that this woman did have it planned out with the student, this to educate the class.

just my two cents.

[MineralMan]

40. Does it. Well, I did a Google Search, and that image has been pasted

all over the Internet. The same image, and with the same lack of provenance. And with the same lack of any mention of the thing being prearranged with that student.

It's an Internet meme. Like all Internet memes, it has no apparent original source, so there's no real way to see if there's more to the story.

I don't even know if there was a teacher, or if the story actually ever happened. I pointed out a flaw with it. I'm prone to doing that.

[Akamai]

41. It seemed to me that you stated your "flaw" with the understanding that the truth was as you

believed it to be, and pushed back against others who had my interpretation.

I have met many wonderful teachers who, if they had thought of this approach,, would probably have employed it in the classroom, especially working out ahead of time the role of the student with the student himself.

I would find it very difficult to see that many teachers would yell at a youngster in the classroom, telling them something that was just not untrue in front of a classroom of others, and then force him to abjectly go to the principal's office. And then deliver to the students the message that this kind of thing is too easy to happen.

[skylucy]

44. I totally agree.

[CCExile]

56. One hopes the kid was in on it.

[demmiblue]

11. Wise words. K&R

[uponit7771]

13. Yeap, I'm keen to those forms of intimidation

[Honeycombe8]

21. Wow. Just wow. I'm going to use this for future reference, if you don't mind. nt

[heaven05]

24. a lot can't allow themselves to believe

soft and full of denial. Just won't believe our way of life is in serious jeopardy and just watching the billionaire and his family jet off to Aspen and Mar-lago, spending millions of tax dollars to accomplish their nefarious deeds for family only.
And the goddamn republiKKKans screamed and pulled their hair out EVERY time President Obama went somewhere to take care of the people business, not skiing, not sitting in decadent luxury selling america to the richest RWer with the highest bid... his voters are such ignorant, stupid suckers for the lie.

WE MEAN NOTHING TO THEM, except as cash cows for their decadence and depravity. AmeriKKKans screwed the pooch this time and a majority of his voters will go to their early graves praising that POS that lives in Mar-lago.

SPEAK UP PEOPLE, loud and clear. That's the only weapon we really have at this time.

[zentrum]

25. Excellent. Will...

....send to any teacher I know. Thanks.

[catchnrelease]

26. I don't think it's real

If Steven was taking notes wouldn't he have just shown the teacher the notes to defend himself? I would think even the meekest kid would automatically say something like 'I am, see!'

I think it's just a parable to make a good point.

[Hamlette]

27. and we wonder why we Democrats can't agree on a message and hammer it home n/t

[tosh]

28. word.

[D_Master81]

29. what a bunch of snowflakes

a bunch of people on here worried about the kid's feelings for a day? what if he and his classmates learned an important lesson for life?

[asiliveandbreathe]

31. Really?? eom

[asiliveandbreathe]

30. Here goes..I don't even think I told this story to my kiddos...

My mom and dad worked full time - first grade - started when 5 1/2 - (January birthday) - so, mom and dad had me in some school after school - that school would pick me up - probably around 2:30-3pm..I do remember the auto was a station wagon - I remember wood on the side...anyway, one day, the driver had changed and I wouldn't get in the car and walked home (5 1/2) - not too far, maybe 3/4 mile (1952-53) -

My dad, as it happened was home, he was shaking a scatter rug on the small side deck (why I remember this, don't know) - he was sure surprised to see me....I don't remember any brouhaha from dad..very possibly ho-hum..that was dad..

The next day, the driver I knew was back...so off to this after school - when I got there, I remember vividly, they put me in a room by myself, on a high stool (I was so little, could have been a regular chair) and they put a shoulder poster on me with some message front and back (I could just be blocking it out) ...I must have told my parents because I never went back...I don't remember any conversation about it - never heard my parents discussing it, but I do know I never went back...I don't remember how I got back home in the afternoon.)

I enjoyed my public schooling - and had a wonderful career..I think how my parents handled it, in retrospect, was for the best..I have always had a one step in front of the other, optimistic, positive attitude, I'm forward thinking, at times I'm there before you are, so to speak..as so many of you here are, as well..

BUT, to this day, I question everything, and everyone..prove to me I can trust you - not, I'll trust you, until you prove to me I can't... my husband (34 yrs) says I have memory like an elephant - he laughs, sometimes to a fault..(telling this story, not even to my husband, leaves me unnerved)

So, my point..this teacher should never, NEVER, have singled out this student..ever...and when I read about this teacher, or that teacher, doing something to a student, I don't care how old they are, I well up with anger....

Now, ask my kiddos when they were in school and they will tell you I would support my kiddos, and their teachers fairly - all events aired to my satisfaction..if the kiddos were wrong they were held accountable..if the teachers were wrong, they were held accountable...truly, this teacher was wrong...(BTW, my son is an elementary school teacher, as well as his wife - and we discuss events in the classroom, or should I say we dissect events..root cause problem solving, he is doing well, challenging, but I think every 5th grade is challenging) boy, do they have stories..

DONT EVER LET ANYONE TELL YOU THAT WHAT YOU SEE WITH YOUR OWN EYES ISNT HAPPENING. Step up and into it! Be well all...

[Bob Loblaw]

32. At the same time

there a number of comments in this thread by people who are certain of the veracity of the story, going on about similar instances in their own experience whereupon they essentially throttled the big bad teacher in heroic fashion. I would caution readers that in addition to not letting people tell you that what you see with your own eyes isn't happening, that another lesson might be not to believe everything that you don't see that someone else tells you is happening.

It's interesting to me that after posting, kpete went silent. Maybe as a bit of an experiment to see what direction the thread would take.

[kpete]

36. always

.

[Bob Loblaw]

38. There you are.

I feel like I won the thread.

[brush]

47. At some point will you clear up if the teacher alerted Steven to what was up?

There are sure some folks on this thread jumping to trash teachers.

There are hundreds of thousands of teachers, some are bad apples.

You can't judge them all by a bad experience you've had.

[kpete]

54. I have been an elementary school art teacher for 30 years

and i try never to judge

sometimes,
I like things that provoke me
like German Expressionism, for example
it's OUT THERE if anybody is interested
quite refreshing

thanks brush
now you see WHY i had to reply to you,


peace,
kp

[brush]

61. An artist huh? That explains your homepage graphics. Always like your posts.

I am too, or was (newspaper art director and erstwhile painter).

[tclambert]

39. Unfortunately, there is a lot of research about the unreliability of eyewitness testimony

and the malleability of memory. Check out the wikipedia article on Elizabeth Loftus. Chances are you could find students in that classroom who would swear they remembered Steve wasn't taking notes.

[oldcynic]

45. perhaps the teacher had read about the blue eyes vs brown eyes exercise

s/he might have been trying a version of it. http://www.janeelliott.com/

Don't know why this exercise isn't used in all schools. It might be a good idea to require participation in order to vote. Could work to suppress the wingnut vote.

[58Sunliner]

48. I don't think we are supposed to take this story that literally.

I thought it was allegorical. Now some people are obsessing over "Steve".

[kpete]

55. thanks 58Sunliner

peace,
kp

[kcr]

64. The problem is there are teachers who will pull crap like that.

I figured it hadn't happened and knew the reason it was posted, but I understand exactly why people took it literally.

[Ernest Partridge]

57. When silence is not golden

When Nikita Khruschev gave his speech to the Supreme Soviet denouncing Stalin's crimes, a delegate shouted out, "why are you telling us now -- why not when Stalin was in power?" Khruschev shouted back, "who said that?"

Silence.

"There's your answer, Khruschev replied."

[Akamai]

59. I do love that story about Kruschev -- I don't know if it's true, but it certainly suggested

that he understood how people are intimidated by people in positions of power.

[ck4829]

60. K&R

[C Moon]

62. Posted on FB

[masmdu]

63. WRONG! Don't trust you eyes unless you see it IN PERSON!

Here is why...

[Kaleva]

66. I think I found Steven

https://static1.squarespace.com/static/561eb63be4b00175277edd96/58095932e58c6284d64de4a9/58095dc79de4bb258a8de543/1477008860415/Steven+Webb+Sladki.jpg?format=300w

"The boycott was announced on Facebook after the broadcast, and more than a thousand people joined in the cause within three days, many of them posting photos of their own pit bulls. The group calling for the boycott was started by Steven Webb Sladki, a Baltimore musician.

“I had to start this group on Monday. Of all the things, groups, and people Mickey attacks and offends, I can not sit idle and let him defame my dog. My dog can’t and wouldn’t “fight” back,” Sladki wrote in a comment to ohmidog!

Sladki, who is a member of Bmore Dog, the Baltimore Bully Crew and a volunteer at BARCS, said he chose his dog, a pit bull, because they are misrepresented and misunderstood type, often judged based on appearances — something to which he can relate.

“As a heavily tattooed, musician with a scruffy beard and a shaved head, I too am often misunderstood or misrepresented. At least I have a voice to defend myself. If people only took the time to get to know me and my dog, many of their misconceptions would be cleared up instantly.”"

http://www.ohmidog.com/2011/03/17/pit-bull-slurs-lead-to-boycott-of-98-rock/

Apparently, Steven learned the lesson well.

Disclosure: I have no idea if this is the Steven in the story or even if the story is real. But 'Steven Webb Sladki' has got to be a very uncommon name.