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(16,104 posts)America has just been waiting for someone to say this!
demmiblue
(36,806 posts)sad!
I, for one, embrace anyone who pushes single payer healthcare. Fiercely and continuously.
yallerdawg
(16,104 posts)Today, we are in a desperate fight for any kind of socialized healthcare we have left!
I guess we're back to pragmatism vs wishful thinking. Great.
demmiblue
(36,806 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)"Our First Stand," the catchall theme for the protests, represents one of the the earliest protests by an opposition party against an incoming president. Brainstormed by Sen. Bernie Sanders, I-Vt., and Democratic leaders in Congress, each rally introduced crowds to men and women who had faced death or bankruptcy before the ACA went into effect, then challenged Republicans to listen to their stories. Rattled during the ACA's passage by tea party protests and raucous congressional town hall meetings, Democrats were flipping the script.
"The immediate goal of the rallies is to show Republicans that the majority of people are against repealing the Affordable Care Act," Sanders said in an interview this week.
https://www.google.com/amp/www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/politics/ct-bernie-sanders-michigan-healthcare-rally-20170115-story,amp.html
One can be pragmatic and still fight for something better.
brewens
(13,517 posts)them at any risk to make thing better for everyone. Nope. We have to just trust Goldman Sachs and their puppets to be kind to us. Some of the rest of us are sure to scrounge enough scraps to end up okay.
yallerdawg
(16,104 posts)When we die off - you get to fulfill all your dreams!
Just like we did.
stonecutter357
(12,692 posts)demmiblue
(36,806 posts)Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)Or does he plan to make this happen without congress and presidential approval?
demmiblue
(36,806 posts)Hassin Bin Sober
(26,305 posts)bahrbearian
(13,466 posts)George II
(67,782 posts)JCanete
(5,272 posts)the unheard of, the pragmatic and reasonable in the court of public opinion. I'll take that over working within political realities. We need to make that political reality, not be confined to its low ceiling constraints.
Crunchy Frog
(26,574 posts)Put pressure on their legislators is a critical component in getting anything accomplished. To the degree that the Democratic party fails to grasp this, they will continue to lose, and the Rs will continue to control the agenda.
I'm glad that at least Bernie seems to have figured that out.
JudyM
(29,176 posts)And he's a good bit older than me.
stonecutter357
(12,692 posts)Talk Is Cheap
(389 posts)Where are the Dems on this? Why are they not screaming from the rooftops to push this?
Demsrule86
(68,440 posts)I have not seen much.
JudyM
(29,176 posts)Beartracks
(12,787 posts)JudyM
(29,176 posts)NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)Where do we go from here? How we gonna get there? Whadda we do?
I'm excited about this! Lead the way!
Tell us, Bernie! How can we make this happen?
msongs
(67,336 posts)NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)Is it realistic?
msongs
(67,336 posts)bill introduced:
https://www.sanders.senate.gov/newsroom/press-releases/release-single-payer-medicare-for-all-legislation-introduced
summary of bill:
https://www.congress.gov/bill/112th-congress/house-bill/1200
of course the bill went nowhere. time to try again...and again...and again. give dems control of the debate
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)If he keeps ignoring the political reality and "shooting for the moon" his efforts will continue to fail and "go nowhere". Time and effort are wasted, and NO progress is made. Meanwhile the GOP grows stronger and stronger.
I've always preferred an approach that's more realistic. The notion that repetitive "brute force" of these grand bills will just magically pass is a foolish one. It's never going to happen that way. Rather than getting nothing done (but sounding great as we do nothing) it would be better if those in charge could set aside the vanity and swallow their pride and just accept the fact that progress on this front will be made incrementally.
Sure! Okay. How?
Can someone just snap their fingers and make it so? That would be nice.
Demsrule86
(68,440 posts)they were created...they both evolved over the years...patience is needed here.
Scarsdale
(9,426 posts)by electing democratic politicians, get rid of the gop. All that deadwood has to be removed. They did nothing about anything for the 8 years that President Obama was in office except obstruct EVERY DAMN THING. They worked very few days, worst record EVER. Now they have a lunatic in the WH, and back him on every stupid thig he does.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)UltravioletDingo
(65 posts)It's the antithesis of their ideology. They will never see healthcare as a basic human right.
liquid diamond
(1,917 posts)unicorns, I ask how the fuck will they get republican support (which is necessary) to pass their fantasy bills. That usually shuts them up.
jalan48
(13,833 posts)This is how we get what we want and not what the Republican's want (Romney Care).
Demsrule86
(68,440 posts)that would include single payer. The Republicans have all avenues of power...we will be lucky to keep what we have...single payer can not happen until we have all the power. We should expend our energy on stopping the GOP at every turn...obstruction is our only option. And we won't always win either...getting ready for off year elections and 18 is very important as well.
jalan48
(13,833 posts)Pretending that what was originally a Republican idea, RomneyCare, is the best we can do moves the Party and the people nowhere.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)It's a reminder that the fight is far from over.
seaglass
(8,171 posts)to get and keep the MA overwhelmingly Dem legislature on board. Kennedy saw it as a path to universal care.
jalan48
(13,833 posts)appears a lot of people and politicians have forgotten about it. It's OK to be a liberal and support real liberal values.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Senator Sanders always advocated health care for all and is fighting like hell to save the ACA. As far as I know it is still possible to continue to do both.
Bernie sees health care for all as a human right and he's not going to stop fighting for it. It's almost as though some would rather he let the Republicans have the spotlight. When did failure become an acceptable outcome? With that attitude we never would have kept fighting for women's right to vote, civil rights or marriage equality.
Crunchy Frog
(26,574 posts)It's really almost cute.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Maybe some day they'll get over their obsession and join the resistance against Trump.
L. Coyote
(51,129 posts)It is also known as the stinky troll syndrome among psychological professionals.
dgauss
(881 posts)While talking about universal health care, he asked a West Virginian coal miner if he thought everyone should have health care coverage and the guy agreed that yes everyone should. I see that as progress.
He's not trying to snap his fingers to make something happen. He's been trying for years to convince Americans that it should happen, that it makes sense. And whether people want to give him any credit for it, I think attitudes about universal health care are changing.
Sanders has long made the point that major changes only happen when large numbers of people come together and force the issue. If enough people believe that the U.S. should have some type of universal health care coverage, and demand it, then just maybe at some point in the future we'll get there. Maybe not. But if the attempt isn't made to convince people it's the right thing to do, there won't be a push for it and then for sure we'll never get there.
I find the constant attempt, by Democrats, to undermine his efforts towards this goal baffling.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Why would anyone want to silence a powerful liberal voice when we need him the most?
To be fair it's only a few Duers who seem to have an agenda against Bernie, elsewhere on the net people are thrilled he's still fighting for us.
Beartracks
(12,787 posts)A lot of Dems and DU posters diss him because he doesn't carry a Democratic Party membership card, and practically blow off anything and everything he says and does just because of that. Seriously, it's like if you posted a list of Bernie's quotes and positions without attribution, these folks would be all, "Yeah, I agree with that! We need more leaders to say/do these things!" -- but then if you reveal the quote was from Bernie, they're like, "Pfft, tell us something we DON'T know, Bernie. Come back when you're a Democrat and then maybe I'll listen, but until then get off the stage!"
=============
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)I could care less if Bernie has a D behind his name, especially since he's far more liberal than many Democrats.
I think his status as an independent is an asset now since Republicans are trying to dismiss the opposition as partisan politics.
If people want to pitch a fit every time Bernie is in the headlines they're in for a rough ride. He's not going anywhere and he's more popular than ever so they'd better buckle up.
Crunchy Frog
(26,574 posts)JudyM
(29,176 posts)otherwise decry. They can't let any contradictory, truthful information in.
BainsBane
(53,010 posts)Had nothing to say on the subject, other than to tell people it wasn't possible, when Democrats had a legislative majority were working on a healthcare bill. I guess that just wasn't "the time", but now is?
No one is "undermining his efforts." Rather some of us don't see tweets as "efforts," but it satisfies his fans. So yeah! Bernie tweeted! He's amazing!
JudyM
(29,176 posts)But if the whole game is to tear him down, actual facts don't matter. Just Negative Nancy.
BainsBane
(53,010 posts)And were working on a healthcare law. Then he said single payer was a non-starter. Somehow the "time" had to wait for a GOP congress. That doesn't compute with my understanding of civics, but apparently I just don't understand "the facts." If Bernie decides to start working to get some legislation passed, more power to him. That, however, isn't accomplished on twitter or his regular series of prime time TV specials but rather in congress, and it requires support from the GOP leadership. But you go ahead and get angry because "negative Nancies" like me have the nerve to think about something besides promoting one member of the political elite. You know, lesser matters like the citizens of this country. Far be it from me to discourage you from focusing on the only game that matters here: Bernie.
You'll just have to deal with the fact that as long as this country remains semi-democratic, some of us will not be treating politicians as monarchs.
JudyM
(29,176 posts)BainsBane
(53,010 posts)"It would have had 8 or 10 votes and that's it," he said, addressing a topic central in the minds of many who the bloggers and left wing talk show hosts gathered for the 4th annual Senate Democratic Progressive Media Summit in Washington reach everyday.
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/dc/sanders-single-payer-never-had-a-chance
Naturally you wouldn't let something as minor as healthcare policy get in the way of what you really care about.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)When Bernie is pragmatic they call him a hypocrite, when he fights for 'unicorns' (aka Medicare for all) they call him a pie in the sky dreamer.
He's fighting for the ACA and reminding people that single payer universal healthcare is the goal - that's bound to piss off those who want to keep the profit in health care.
Progressives shouldn't pay any attention to conservative critics. I'm trying to follow Bernie's lead - focus on fighting the Republicans and ignore the distractions. There will always be a small group of angry haters following around every progressive politician, they're insignificant, like conservative gnats swarming around a liberal lion.
Stay positive and keep up the good work!
Response to beam me up scottie (Reply #74)
betsuni This message was self-deleted by its author.
JudyM
(29,176 posts)He is inspiring so many... plugging away on multiple fronts for decades. If you didn't spot the thread on the huge landfill solar capture setup he facilitated in Burlington, check it out: http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1280&pid=218507
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)No wonder his detractors are so angry.
I just wish we had more like him.
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)Chile and Slovenia! And the US doesn't have it. What a shame!
L. Coyote
(51,129 posts)pansypoo53219
(20,948 posts)its a COST they do not have.our do. ITS LOGICAL.
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)numbers in their arguments. It is one thing to say that everyone needs universal health care, but saying that countries that have universal healthcare saves each citizen x amount per year while saving y more lives than our system does hits opponents where it hurts.
JHan
(10,173 posts)and their usual mantra about Government bungling things up while making drastic cuts.
I think this is the perfect time to push hard on this because the Republicans are on the backfoot.
leftstreet
(36,097 posts)Crunchy Frog
(26,574 posts)JudyM
(29,176 posts)BainsBane
(53,010 posts)Last edited Sun Mar 19, 2017, 08:29 AM - Edit history (1)
JudyM
(29,176 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Messaging is very important, it's stupid to cede social media to Trump and the GOP. Of course some old folks don't understand how influential that particular platform can be, they still think it's a fad.
Tweeting? What good does that do? I don't get it.
They ignore it at their peril while shouting at kids to get off their lawn.
JudyM
(29,176 posts)And to some, the method or substance doesn't matter, just attack like a Pavlovian fool when you pick up a scent that makes you uncomfortable.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)I've seen a few people sneering at his tweets - which is really bizarre considering how many other political leaders use Twitter. I assumed they were old and stuck in their ways, that would explain their inability to understand why it's important to use social media to reach young people. But you're right, it's not an age thing. It could be just an excuse to complain.
LostOne4Ever
(9,283 posts)democrank
(11,082 posts)Proud to support both.
nikibatts
(2,198 posts)Nothing he can do or say can make up for it. 45 is his legacy INMHO
Blue_Warrior
(135 posts)Here is Bernie fighting for us, fighting for ME and you're going to crap on him? Now it's BERNIES fault that trump won ?
Smh
BainsBane
(53,010 posts)Okay, Bernie. Get to work can nvincing the GOP.
FDRsGhost
(470 posts)This thread made me come out of lurking and register here on DU, congrats on that as I've read the site for 10 years. I've always found it to be the de facto standard for politics. However this thread and its responses brought me out to finally register because I had to say something.
I don't understand many of the responses here from several people who act as though single payer is a bad thing. Why is this exactly? We're liberals and in my eyes and heart, single payer which is true universal health care is basically an ideal for Democrats. Yet here in this thread we see several people basically fighting against it saying it won't pass, it won't get far, etc.
There's something in that message which I feel many are missing. Sometimes it isn't about "getting things done" as much as it is about "the fight". Democrats have had massive losses is the last 8 years with over 1,000 seats lost and currently govern just 6 states. Within that conversation about how that happened you hear one constant thing over and over; Democrats don't fight. Wouldn't screaming loudly about things like single payer and a living wage, over and over again essentially cure that assertion and in turn actually strengthen the party itself?
I do believe that it would.
While many concentrate on Trump (Frito Finger as I call him), we also can't lose touch of what makes us truly US. We simply can't be reactionary and the party of anti-Trump but need to scream from mountain top in America the platform and what we believe in. Stating that we are "different" and "how" we are different is incredibly valuable as midterms begin to approach. If we don't I fear we'll be in a lot worse shape with Republicans having the opportunity to have a constitutional convention which would spell utter disaster for anybody who has a heart and soul. You can basically kiss anything remotely liberal adios at that point; from Roe v Wade to minimum wage.
I personally don't get a lot of the Bernie condemnation at times. I mean the guy is out there holding town halls opposite of Ted Cruz and essentially being a massive recruiting tool for Democrats. This isn't a bad thing in fact it's bringing new blood and new energy into the party. So why the anger? I'd ask you to take a look at where he stands on the issues because in the end, that's what matters, right? Those issues define us politically and give us the leverage from which we fight from.
Back to single payer though; Bernie is right in what he says. I lived in Germany for quite awhile and the system there is so different than our own. I had my eyes really opened up. Nobody goes bankrupt from medical bills and nobody is dying from not having health insurance, unlike here in the United States. The ACA is great, but we need to be honest too, people in red states who didn't expand Medicaid are suffering really bad. Sure we won't get single payer until we have a majority but the fight is just beginning and health care has been fought for almost 100 years. Think about that for a second; a 100 years. If that doesn't make you angry then I don't know what does but it's a slow road and one of the biggest and the sooner we are out there on the issue, the better.
Anyways, hello DU!
CaliforniaPeggy
(149,499 posts)This is a great and well-thought out post--thank you for it.
I hope you will continue to speak your mind on topics which matter to all of us.
Again, Welcome!
FDRsGhost
(470 posts)Rhiannon12866
(204,491 posts)Very well said and I also agree with you! So glad you decided to join us!
FDRsGhost
(470 posts)gopiscrap
(23,724 posts)FDRsGhost
(470 posts)Progressive dog
(6,898 posts)He explained Health care policy in 140 words or fewer. It took Trump and gang 65 pages.
Rhiannon12866
(204,491 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)He never stops fighting, Bernie is an incredible man and a potent weapon against Trump's agenda.
Rallies, town halls, editorials, interviews, social media, he's utilizing all of it.
Rhiannon12866
(204,491 posts)I'm not far from Vermont, spent my summers there growing up, and I still have friends there, we try to get together every year. I'm a long time fan of both Vermont senators, though I'm also grateful for mine. (In fact, Kirsten Gillibrand used to be my congresswoman! ) Back in 2012, my friend who I usually stay with was telling me about a Sanders rally she went to - and I begged her to take me with her the next time! He's an amazing advocate, and shows no sign of slowing down. I don't think I could keep up with him!
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)I love my home state, I've had the pleasure of voting for Pat, Bernie and even Jim Jeffords back in the day. Bernie might be a Brooklyn transplant but Vermonters are proud to claim him as one of their own. I don't think he'll ever have to worry about losing his seat, which is great for us - he can focus on national issues.
Glad to see you again!
Rhiannon12866
(204,491 posts)My only brush with Vermont greatness was meeting the governor - twice! My brother went to UVM and the governor showed up for events. I looked him up once and it turns out he was a Republican, LOL. But he was a nice guy and I liked him...
It's nice to see you again, too! I think of you often since we still could use the search function. Don't be a stranger, there seem to be fewer of us this time around...
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)So many great men from such a tiny state. And let's not forget Ben and Jerry's!
I'll be around, just like Bernie we're not going anywhere.
Rhiannon12866
(204,491 posts)And I have passes to tour Ben and Jerry's in one of my pockets! One time I went canoeing with my friends and the canoe rental guys passed them out to everyone...
I had a time coming back after the hack, but I don't know how I'd be surviving now without DU!