Well Sen. Warren, Sen. Sanders, you're both on the record against Obama and Democratic Party. Nice

[The Polack MSgt]

I have to assume that people as smart as you both are saying these things on purpose, as part of a messaging strategy. I wonder what goal that strategy is intended to achieve.

Here is my best guess:

I believe that lately you and Senator Sanders have been attempting to garner support among the mythical "Obama/Trump" voting bloc.

I also believe that this plan is a mistake. You are both chasing Bigfoot. As a factor in coming elections, that group is fairy dust - It is a media creation

Trump voters will not vote for you just because you go on the record criticizing Obama.

Attacking mainstream Dems won't make a difference either.

The folks you are playing footsy with happily picked a racist sexist criminal - Because he was better in their opinion than any Democrat - Including you and Senator Sanders.

This winking and nudging flirtation with the white supremacists and misogynists who populate the "economically anxious" is sickening, and is alienating and demotivating people who are actually willing to vote for Democrats.

[smirkymonkey]

1. Thank YOU!

[chillfactor]

2. Both of them....

Make me sick to my stomach!

[Kittycow]

8. I share the same sentiment as chillfactor. 😝

President Obama can't even catch a break as a private citizen! Even though it might be shortsighted on my part, I can't see myself supporting anyone who's slamming him right now.

It's idiotic to play into the CONservatives hands and just reinforces that you shouldn't vote for a Democrat! With this and still squabbling over BS vs HC, when the hell are we going to look into the future with a successful plan?

[Cha]

91. I know what you mean.. they really stepped into it..

[hrmjustin]

3. They need to put their fire on the GOP.

If they don't they will never have any hopes for the nomination. Then again I really don't think either should be the nominee at this point.

They are both good people who need to learn how to pick their battles.

[Proud Liberal Dem]

9. Exactly

Obama's speaking fees isn't/shouldn't even be an "issue" in the face of everything else!


I'm not really that surprised that Bernie is speaking out on this, but I'm very surprised about Warren making comments about it.............If she were thinking about running in 2020, it probably won't happen now.

[Alice11111]

81. It's nuts. He gets to speak. All ex presidents do it. It will

Probably make the party stronger to get the info out, in contrast to the BS the Repubs dump. Plus, he needs to maintain contacts to help us out.

Obama wasn't perfect, but he was damn good most of the time.

I hate it when Dems shoot themselves in the head to prove they are purists. Counterproductive.

[Proud Liberal Dem]

114. Me too

I'm glad that it's not an election year yet but we got to get our priorities straight here IMHO. Our enemy is/should be Trump and his GOP enablers and minions. After Democrats win the Presidency back and have supermajorities in Congress and there are no other problems left to solve, we can address the "burning" issue of ex-President speaking fees.

[Alice11111]

135. ...

[Cha]

92. I definitely don't want either of them.

[Demsrule86]

4. I do agree with you...all this nonsense in an attempt to reach out to the mythical voters who

really deep down agree with us (not)even though they voted for Trump and continue to support Trump...is hurting our party and our electoral chances. The Mello abortion controversy, criticisms of the Democratic party (Sen Sanders), and now (how dare they) the self-serving criticism of Pres. Obama's earning decent paycheck doing what former presidents have always done:giving paid speeches. Such tactics will never win the 'magic Trump voters' but it could discourage many Democrats who don't want to hear this kind of talk.

[JudyM]

5. Just maybe it's not an attack (oh horrors, questioning how we operate!) but valuable counterpoint.

Personalizing hyper-vigilant defensiveness, on the other hand, is not helpful to the party. We need to grow.

Do you really believe that the party has not cozied up too much to the interests we should be protecting our populace from ?

[kcr]

7. Just who do you think

choosing the first black president to target this "valuable counterpoint" with, is meant to appeal to? A president who is still enormously popular. Which audience is supposed to be receptive to this? Yeah...

Sorry. The OP is absolutely right.

[BeyondGeography]

11. So because Obama is black any and all criticisms of him have a racial component?

As such, he is above all criticism, apparently. Let's tie ourselves in knots, yay!

If you listened to Sanders the other day, he prefaced his very gentle comment on the Wall St. speech money by saying President Obama represented this country admirably and he has a lot of respect for him. Every Democrat does. Believe it or not, it's possible to think Obama did a good/very good/great job as President and disagree with him on specific issues.

[kcr]

13. Why, thank you for a shining example of who this was meant to appeal to!

I always love it when I get help making my points.

But to answer your question, no, of course not. Only the ones that are.

[BeyondGeography]

17. Hey, I love Obama, I think cozy relations with Wall St. are a loser for Dems and I'm glad

Sanders and Warren said something. I also voted for HRC over Bernie because I thought she'd make a much better President.

See how that works?

[kcr]

18. You know what? I'm not a fan of Wall St and their place in our government, either.

Which is exactly why I'm calling out the bullshit that will do nothing to help with that. I'm hoping that this turn to appeal to right wing racists is just a blip of a fad in the progressive movement.

[JudyM]

28. Way off base... as if their goal is to appeal to RW racists.

[Unca Jim]

46. I know, right?

What is going on with the denial surrounding being in bed with the oligarchs?

[Cha]

86. And, I disagree.. they had no clue who President Obama

is actually speaking to in September and about what..

The President will be at Cantor-Fitzgerald's annual Health Conference which is an issue dear to Obama's heart.

They were just taking cheap pot shots while on their book tours.

[brush]

99. Research Cantor Fitzgerald before getting on that anti-Wall Street bandwagon

You may be surprised at what you learn.

[BeyondGeography]

100. Cantor Fitz needs to be publicly regulated like any other private seller of financial instruments

They were major players in the credit default swap market prior to the crash. They did nothing wrong, but they push the limits of risk as far as the rules allow like any other house. It doesn't matter at all if Howard Lutnick, or any other Wall St. CEO , for that matter, appears to be a nice guy.

[putitinD]

105. +1

[KPN]

40. Which ones are?

This stuff gets loosely thrown out there as a generalization often here -- with very few, if any, distinctions.

The OP paints a broad brush and makes assumptions to draw conclusions that have no factual basis behind them. The OP is not right. I heard and read what Sen. Warren said: it appealed to me. So, one could put me into the bigot category based on the OP being right, but one would be wrong in doing so -- take my word for it. Or, based on broad brushes and bad assumptions -- if one so desires -- not.

[JudyM]

15. Ditto.

[kcr]

16. Ditto?

Hmmm

[KPN]

38. Exactly!

[Alice11111]

82. You have a valid point, but I think it is important now

For him to speak
It's legal for Dems, including Blacks, to get paid too.

[KPN]

36. Well, quite a few Democrats here at DU by my count.

Is it not okay to have different points of view?

Is it not okay to support a leader overall (e.g., Obama) but also have substantial differences with him/her on some things/topics/issues?

Is it not okay to disagree with others within your own group/cohort/Party about whether particular diifferences of opinion or perceptions are good for or bad for the group?

Is diversity in views a bad thing for the Democratic Party?

[Alice11111]

83. I agree. It Is verboten here.

[Unca Jim]

44. AMEN!

[The Polack MSgt]

10. Equating Democrats and President Obama to the Trump party is an attack

I think President Obama, like many others in both parties, talk about a set of big national statistics that look shiny and great but increasingly have giant blind spots"

"The Republicans have clearly thrown their lot in with the rich and the powerful, but so have a lot of Democrats."
Sen. Warren.

More both siderism - more of the "If you aren't against capitalism you are against people" nonsense.

[JudyM]

14. Neither Sanders nor Warren want to do away with capitalism. They do believe our

Democracy needs constraints in place so that decisions that affect people's lives and the planet are not decided on the basis of pure economic value to donors.

[emulatorloo]

52. Pretty much all Democrats believe that

Appreciate your reminder

[Cha]

90. BS' "distastedful" accusation @ Pres Obama and him

equating Obama's speaking at Cantor-Fitzgerald at their annual Health Conference to working for trump is an ugly attack.

He clearly had no clue what he was talking about.

[KPN]

35. Thank you. Saved me some time. Good post.

[Cha]

88. Just maybe they didn't know what they were talking about.

[heaven05]

6. I heartily agree

while Obama has his shortcomings, they were/are minuscule compared to the bigots, racists and cretins running this country now and their voting supporters. They are bigots, racists, sexists, and homophobes who want all non-white people not male, 'kkkristian' and 'straight', dead or in concentration camps. Period.

Your last sentence says it all.

[NastyRiffraff]

12. Yes yes yes yes YES!

"Trump voters will not vote for you just because you go on the record criticizing Obama."

This is so obvious that it shouldn't have to be said. But apparently, it does have to be said. The "thinking" here on DU reflects the fever dream of attracting Trump voters; the misogynist, racist, all around bigoted voters who will never EVER vote for a Democrat. Or a "Democratic Socialist" whatever that means. Selling your soul for a cloudy fantasy won't bring them to your side.

Thanks for this OP, Polack MSgt.

[Act_of_Reparation]

19. Is this politics or team sports?

Every day, it gets harder to tell.

[leftstreet]

22. +1

[The Polack MSgt]

49. The Trump Party aren't the Cubs or the Yankees

The Trump party aren't even a political organization that are bound by the game's rules any longer.

As much as I kept hearing about the evils of "Triangulation" when it was Bill and Hillary being accused of it, I'm shocked that this misguided attempt to get a slice of the deplorables is being defended.

We do not need powerful voices in our own party slapping "team mates" in an attempt to attract voters that already showed who and what they are last Nov. 8

[Act_of_Reparation]

71. Nor do we need goosetepping sycophants stifling critical self-reflection and innovation...

...or promoting the kind of conformity and cultishness which for the worst of the Bush years characterized the GOP.

The purity troll has picked a lonely hill to die on. Don't be like the purity troll.

[The Polack MSgt]

73. Heh

Support the both sides are the same argument if you want to. Why not, hey you even indulge yourself in it a bit right here.

Whatever. But I stand by my OP, this isn't accidental. If they are not courting Trump voters, I can't for the life of me see who they are talking to

[Act_of_Reparation]

80. I'm not entirely sure what "both sides" you're talking about.

Democrats and Republicans? Establishment and progressive Democrats? Cultural and radical liberals? This isn't a bilateral predicament, so you might try being a little more specific with your barbs.

If they are not courting Trump voters, I can't for the life of me see who they are talking to

The electorate is not composed merely of people who voted for Trump and people who voted for Hillary. There are people who voted third party, and people who didn't vote at all. Both groups invariably include people dissatisfied with the pull Wall Street has over elected officials.

Of course, I'm not convinced this was a cynical ploy to shave a few votes from the lukewarm corners of Trump's base. It might be an act of self-preservation, an attempt to staunch the party's declining approval ratings by distancing itself from an even less popular institution: Wall Street.

[Cha]

89. Oh you don't know what "politics" is? That's what BS and

EW were going at when they lobbed cheap pot shots at President Obama for going to give a speech at Cantor-Fitzgerald's in September.. at their annual Health Conference.

An important issue to Obama and dear to his heart.

[Act_of_Reparation]

134. I would like to think I do. If not, I'm going to hit my alma mater up for a refund.

And, you're right: that's exactly what Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren were doing when Barack Obama gave a talk at a company widely loathed by the broader American public. It was politics, and certainly not any worse than anything the Clinton campaign had to say about Barack Obama in 2007.

The system is arranged in such a manner that intraparty conflict is inevitable. As long as the Party appeals to the rank and file to cull contenders for high office, candidates seeking those offices will be in competition with one another. It's a perfectly natural consequence of the primary system. The ideal of a perfectly unified party wherein everyone only has nice things to say about each other and every elected official regurgitates the same talking points and tows the same line is impossible in such a system, and I wouldn't want it even it were. Ideological diversity, within a reasonable margin, engenders a degree of adaptability that allows a party to weather changes in electoral temperament without going the way of the Federalists circa 1825.

You don't have to agree with Elizabeth Warren's politics. You don't even have to like her as a person. Questioning her place in the party, however, is a load of purist, vituperative horseshit that, at best, broadcasts a fundamentally broken understanding of how bipartisan representative democracy works.

[Wounded Bear]

20. I'm with you...

I believe Bernie and Liz are good people at heart, but are misguided in their recent criticisms of the former Pres.

As for 2020 (which I have said I won't discuss, but oh well), I think both are fine right where they are and probably should not run for President. Yes, I would vote for them if they win the nomination, but I suspect I won't support them strongly in the primaries.

I guess I'm a "new blooder" in that respect. Mostly, though, I want 2020 to happen organically over the next 3 years, not be decided before we win 2018. After all, as qualified as she was, it was perhaps a mistake to assume Hillary was it before it even started.

[LovingA2andMI]

77. Agreed!!

Neither Warren or Sanders will be a first, second or tenth opinion for 2020 IOHO. We need new blood to lead us out of Cheeto Land and that is not anyone spoke about in the 2016 Primary Election.

It certainly does not help to hear/reads the baffling comments on Former POTUS Barack Obama for either of the above individuals the last couple of days, either.

Again, we need New Blood. Time for the up and comers to step up to the plate for the 2020 Presidential Primary.

[sheshe2]

21. 100% agree, MSgt.

Thank you.

[Cha]

101. Can you believe this?!

Elizabeth Warren says economic gains of Obama era have ‘giant blind spots’

https://www.boston.com/news/politics/2017/05/01/elizabeth-warren-says-economic-gains-of-obama-era-have-giant-blind-spots

Elizabeth Warren calls out Obama and Democrats for losing way on economy

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/may/01/elizabeth-warren-barack-obama-democrats-economy

Elizabeth Warren Blasts Ignorant Obama For Abandoning Working Class That's "Getting Kicked In The Teeth"

snip//

And, as the in-fighting ramps up, it seems that Elizabeth Warren is quickly emerging as the leader of the far-left movement. In fact, she has become increasingly critical of President Obama in recent days with her most recent attack coming via an interview with the Guardian in which she suggested that Obama was disconnected from the woes of the working class people of the United States who are "getting kicked in the teeth" after 8 years of his rule.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-05-01/

She's trying to appeal to the Obama haters whomever they are.

'Cause you know.. he didn't have Any Obstruction in Congress to Knock Down All the Bills he put forth.. Like Job bills for JOBS.

[snort]

23. More purity bullshit

[TheBlackAdder]

43. +1... And to think, in Poli-Sci courses, it's taught that the GOP is the only Top-Down Organization.

.


A lot have things changed over the past 20 years.


.

[The Polack MSgt]

53. More UNITY busllshit snort

The pace of these OPs would probably slow to a crawl if we went a week without being poked in the eye about how Senators Warren and Sanders were saving the soul of the party or other such insulting condescending fucking assdrool.

Meanwhile regular old Democrats are dismissed as inconvenient to the party or even complicit in some way with the Trump party.

No. Fucking. Way.

I Will not be dismissed or hand waved away when I defend my fucking political party.

[snort]

66. For better or worse, the Democratic Party

is a group, not a team.

[Eliot Rosewater]

127. ALL purity bullshit comes from progressives, for lack of a better word or term.

I dont consider this new voting block progressive in the first place, but that is a different conversation.

People like Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren need to understand that right now there is a common enemy which left to their own devices and increased power, will indeed end the human race or at best make living in it miserable.

So i appeal to the Bernie's and Liz's of the world to please join us in a single voice of opposition to these horrible and destructive assholes, aka GOP.

[Cha]

136. BS & EW are playing politics.. snipping from the sidelines about

which they apparently know nothing about.

Not a good look for them.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

24. Can we quit picking at these wounds and have a little more about every Democrat's positives?

There is a lot of positive about what Democrats are doing these days.

Let's save the focus of negativity for the Mango Mussolini wannabe and President Bannon-Jarvanka.

[Cha]

111. Can you talk to EW about this?

Elizabeth Warren says economic gains of Obama era have ‘giant blind spots’

https://www.boston.com/news/politics/2017/05/01/elizabeth-warren-says-economic-gains-of-obama-era-have-giant-blind-spots

Elizabeth Warren calls out Obama and Democrats for losing way on economy

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/may/01/elizabeth-warren-barack-obama-democrats-economy

Elizabeth Warren Blasts Ignorant Obama For Abandoning Working Class That's "Getting Kicked In The Teeth"

snip//

And, as the in-fighting ramps up, it seems that Elizabeth Warren is quickly emerging as the leader of the far-left movement. In fact, she has become increasingly critical of President Obama in recent days with her most recent attack coming via an interview with the Guardian in which she suggested that Obama was disconnected from the woes of the working class people of the United States who are "getting kicked in the teeth" after 8 years of his rule.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-05-01/

She's trying to appeal to the Obama haters whomever they are.

'Cause you know.. he didn't have Any Obstruction in Congress to Knock Down All the Bills he put forth.. Like Job bills for JOBS.

[FairWinds]

25. lots of us are Bernie and Liz backers . .

disappointing that their views are not accepted here.

[brush]

29. Why is Warren now attacking Obama as having lost sight of the economy...

right after her and Sanders went after him for a speaking fee from CF, a firm that has quite a sterling rep?

And btw, apparently she hasn't noticed the jobless rate went down tremendously under Obama, the stock market tripled, the auto industry was saved, the stimulus saved the economy from a much deeper recession . . .

And I could go on.

What is it, open season on Obama now?

You'd think she'd know better. The other guy, we've come to expect that from him.

[Cha]

97. What?! EW went after Presidnet Obama on the Economy?!

I don't know what her strategy is and for what but she sure is not making a good impression on the largest voting block we have by ignorantly going after Obama.

Damn.

[Cha]

103. I found EW's attacks on Pres Obama.. another thing she conveniently

forgot to mention when she was whining about him.. that the gd gop in Congress shut Down Everything he tried to do.

Anyone that doesn't take that into account is living in a gd dream world.. or hoping no one notices.

Elizabeth Warren says economic gains of Obama era have ‘giant blind spots’

https://www.boston.com/news/politics/2017/05/01/elizabeth-warren-says-economic-gains-of-obama-era-have-giant-blind-spots

Elizabeth Warren calls out Obama and Democrats for losing way on economy

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/may/01/elizabeth-warren-barack-obama-democrats-economy

Elizabeth Warren Blasts Ignorant Obama For Abandoning Working Class That's "Getting Kicked In The Teeth"

snip//

And, as the in-fighting ramps up, it seems that Elizabeth Warren is quickly emerging as the leader of the far-left movement. In fact, she has become increasingly critical of President Obama in recent days with her most recent attack coming via an interview with the Guardian in which she suggested that Obama was disconnected from the woes of the working class people of the United States who are "getting kicked in the teeth" after 8 years of his rule.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-05-01/

She's trying to appeal to the Obama haters whomever they are.

'Cause you know.. he didn't have Any Obstruction in Congress to Knock Down All the Bills he put forth.. Like Job bills for JOBS.

[brush]

107. I thought she was smarter than that. Why alienate such a huge part of the Dem base?

Sanders found out in the southern primaries that if you disregard or alienate AAs you put yourself in a deep hole.

Sanders could never dig himself out.

Let's see if Warren can because this stuff is going to come back on her if she runs in 2020.

[Cha]

110. I know.. she's whistling in the wind if she thinks ignorantly

attacking President Obama is going to help in the 2020 primaries.

I can only imagine if EW and BS go up against each other.

I thought she was smarter, too.. life changed on a dime with that thought.

[Cha]

93. "Their views".. sure as hell weren't right on this View..

Lots of us aren't "backers".

[FairWinds]

117. The Democratic establishment seems unable and unwilling . .

to have a debate about policy.

They react with name-calling (see above) to any disagreement.

Millions and millions of democrats, especially the young, are
quite sympathetic to the views of Sanders and Warren.

Being unwilling to have policy debates is not the way to
bring them into the Dem tent.

[Cha]

118. Just stop with your silly "establishment" buzzword..

it's not working.. Planned Parenthood was labled"establishment" as well as so many outstanding leaders.

It's lost all its intended meaning as an insult.. Good on the Establishment.. they are out there on the front lines now fighting the Fascistrumps in Congress.. while those who only have ignorant insults are lobbing cheap pot shots from the sidelines.

[FairWinds]

119. OK, so I read the article that you cited . .

as being so awful . .

The problem for you and the DP ESTABLISHMENT is that she is factually correct.

The working class has, in fact, been left behind.

Suggest you read yourself some Thomas Piketty.

https://www.boston.com/news/politics/2017/05/01/elizabeth-warren-says-economic-gains-of-obama-era-have-giant-blind-spots

Worst of all is your refusal to tolerate a policy discussion.

[brush]

125. But blaming Obama for that when the repugs obstructed him at every turn is disengenuous at best

Warren was in the Senate and knows first hand what McConnell and the crew did to his proposed jobs and infrastructures bills.

In tennis this would be called an "unforced error". She should steer away from mistakes like this by thinking long-term.

Sanders disregarded voters in the southern primaries and lost out on gaining delegates.

She has to know what happened in those primaries, doesn't she? That's where Sanders lost the nomination.

I don't want to see Warren make the same mistake.

[usedtobedemgurl]

26. I am very disappointed in them.

[demmiblue]

27. No they aren't... that is just ridiculous.

Didn't read past the thread title. Trashed.

[RVN VET71]

30. I doubt if they were trying to garner support among the deplorables.

Whether what they've said is right or wrong, the intention seemed to me to be about garnering support among the non-voting Liberal-wannabes who stayed away from the polls because, while they loathed Trump, they didn't like Hillary's connections with Wall Street.

Somebody on the Left had to say something about Obama's speech, however. And if it had to be Sanders and Warren, good for them. I'm not opposed to an ex-President making money, and my admiration for President Obama has not been shaken by his speech. However I really do hope he is cool enough to take the proceeds of his speech to the Capitalists who crashed the world economy and use it to help organizations and individuals struggling against their greed.

[Tarheel_Dem]

79. Do you know which firm he'll be speaking to, and what he'll be speaking about?

[UtahLib]

31. Yes!! k&r

[onetexan]

32. what is her goal or point in saying such divisive things?

Next she'll be saying crap about Hillary. Is this an attempt to distance herself from the establishment and if so, i would assume she is angling to run for 2020?

[Cha]

106. Totally sounds like it, onetexan

Elizabeth Warren says economic gains of Obama era have ‘giant blind spots’

https://www.boston.com/news/politics/2017/05/01/elizabeth-warren-says-economic-gains-of-obama-era-have-giant-blind-spots

Elizabeth Warren calls out Obama and Democrats for losing way on economy

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/may/01/elizabeth-warren-barack-obama-democrats-economy

Elizabeth Warren Blasts Ignorant Obama For Abandoning Working Class That's "Getting Kicked In The Teeth"

snip//

And, as the in-fighting ramps up, it seems that Elizabeth Warren is quickly emerging as the leader of the far-left movement. In fact, she has become increasingly critical of President Obama in recent days with her most recent attack coming via an interview with the Guardian in which she suggested that Obama was disconnected from the woes of the working class people of the United States who are "getting kicked in the teeth" after 8 years of his rule.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-05-01/

She's trying to appeal to the Obama haters whomever they are.

'Cause you know.. he didn't have Any Obstruction in Congress to Knock Down All the Bills he put forth.. Like Job bills for JOBS.

[onetexan]

113. Thanks Cha, makes alot of sense

i gathered there had to be some good self serving reason as to why she's been saying these things about O. She won't only alienate AAs, she'll alienate many of us who do like O's legacy and get the bigger picture.

[Cha]

115. Right, onetexan. And, that last sentence is the

category I fall into, too.

Thank you!

[brush]

108. Not smart to alienate AAs if she plans a 2020 run. Not smart at all.

Sanders found that out in the 2016 southern primaries.

[LiberalLovinLug]

33. OMG a Democrat said something critical about Democrats!!!

Here we bitterly criticize mainstream GOP members for not being critical about Trump or the Teapublican deplorables wing of their party, yet some in here scream bloody murder when their own losing party actually engages in a bit of self reflection and criticism. Because, we have done so well lately. Hillary won the popular vote!!! (because of pockets in New York and California). No matter about the Senate, the House, the SCOTUS, Governorships, and hundreds of county and municipal losses.

I do not understand this cowardly sentiment I am reading on DU lately. This backlash against Sanders and now I guess Warren. Anyone that dares to suggest that future winning means taking a hard look at our recent past strategies and who and how we focus the message. And what that message is.

Warren should just stop and place her head back into the sand. Everything will be fine. The Democrats are perfect.

[Kirkwood]

41. ** PERFECT **

[The Polack MSgt]

57. See reply #10 - Equating Obama and the Democratic party to the Trump Party is an attack

Both sides are the same?

[LiberalLovinLug]

70. OMG, hyperbole much?

Equating Democrats and President Obama to the Trump party is an attack

In no way did Sen Warren say both parties were the same. No way near that.

"I think President Obama, like many others in both parties, talk about a set of big national statistics that look shiny and great but increasingly have giant blind spots"

What is so wrong about this statement? The GDP goes up! Great! But what if that is a result of plants roboticizing? or moving their workforce overseas? Or curbing union rights? Cutting benefits? So the ownership, CEO, executives and shareholders of those companies do better. What if that doesn't 'trickle down' to the workers?

"The Republicans have clearly thrown their lot in with the rich and the powerful, but so have a lot of Democrats."
Sen. Warren.

...More both siderism - more of the "If you aren't against capitalism you are against people" nonsense.


What part of THE Republicans and A LOT of Democrats don't you understand? Of course "a lot" is subjective and open to interpretation, but to myself, even one Blue Dog DINO is one too many.

Again, no mention of being "against capitalism". Being for a mixed system where capitalism and entrepreneurship is still encouraged in the private sector but things that work better under a socialist system to keep profits out and make it fair for everyone because it is too important ....like public education, environmental protection, and health care should be handled differently. That is not a radical idea. Heck, the US armed forces is the biggest socialist organization in the world. If every State, or county, had to contract some weapons manufacturer, or some uniform maker, or boot maker etc themselves it would cost even more to the taxpayer. By ordering uniforms say in bulk, on a national scale, it saves money. The same principal could be used for health care, like every other western democracy. Pool taxpayer resouces to get the best deal. Same with pharmaceuticals.

Both Obama and Hillary should have been fighting for Single Payer all along. Oh they'd never get anywhere you say? Not right away, but eventually the message would get through. The facts that it costs less, and yet covers everybody in the country from birth to death no matter how serious your condition, or preconditions, or your employment status, or where you live. On top of that how it benefits businesses that bid for international contracts, in this increasingly globalized world. (Other countries companies have the advantage of their own workers paying for their own basic healthcare through their taxes, so their bids can be more competitive) It does zero good to shrug your shoulders and say "it can't be done". And worse, fighting against those that say it can.

[JudyM]

112. Right on, L3. Good last line, especially. Fighting against democratic principles is what this is.

[Cha]

94. "critical"? It was a "distasteful" attack.. equating

President Obama speaking @ Cantor-Fitzgerald in September and their annual Health Conference to working for trump.

[brush]

109. Huh? So you think it's smart to alienate AAs by needlessly bashing our popular ex-pres...

who just happens to be black?

There was no reason to bash him on the speech fee or his alleged "blind spot" on the economy while he was president.

Not smart at all. trump is president. He's screwing up left and right and she's criticizing Obama.

Go after trump, for God's sake. Obama is out of office. There is no need to even mention him.

WTF?

If she runs in 2020, that's going to come back to haunt her. Sanders alientate AAs and lost the southern primaries and never recovered.

I thought Warren was smarter than that.

[LiberalLovinLug]

120. Seriously? you are going to play the race card?

I hadn't even thought about that angle. I guess I understand how some AAs can be overly sensitive about what is said about Obama. But ask yourself, do you think Warren is a racist? Or that she was picking on Obama because he is black? And that if the very same actions, or non-actions were taken by Obama but his mother happened to meet a white suitor before she met her black suitor and Obama skin was a few shades lighter that she would lay off of him on the exact same issues?

Sorry I know that for some AAs Obama is off limits. Not just for them but for anyone. But my gawd surely you see how paralysing this would be for any opportunity for self evaluation and betterment. It is a very different thing to criticize using fake news like questioning his birth place, or using racist slogans in rallies,..... and criticizing his political decisions isn't it?

A politician is a politician. Once you start saying one politician in your party is above criticism over another because of his skin color, you are treading on the waters of paralysis.

[brush]

122. Get a clue. It's not playing the race card to say Warren should not make the same mistake Sanders...

did by alienating a big party of the Dem base for no reason. Sanders diregarded AAs in the southern primaries and never recovered from the missed opportunity to gain delegates.

God. Talk about being overly sensitive. Look in the mirror. You bringing up the race card when no one is even talking about that. We're talking potential vote counts and delegates here.

And it's common sense not to alienate future constituents by criticizing another Dem who is out of office even, for God's sake.

And btw, it's not just AAs who see no reason to go after Obama when trump is the huge elephant in the room she should be criticizing.

[onetexan]

116. throwing other people under the bus so it makes you look good isn't acceptable

How does Ms. Warren going around criticizing Obama make the rest of the Democratic party look? Yes she should stick her head back in the sand and keep it there if she isn't helping our cause for unity and cohesion. Mind you she was not in O's shoes making those critical decisions he had to make as president, so it's of course muc easier to throw stones from a distance.

[LiberalLovinLug]

121. "....make the rest of the Democratic party look"

It cannot simply be about polishing the donkey. Brushing his coat, tying a ribbon in his mane.

Why is it so awful to check the donkey's teeth, get an x-ray, look for other more internal health issues?

Ones political beliefs shouldn't be subjected to something as superficial as "looks". I can see why there was a hesitation to criticize the party during the election, but we are at the beginning of a long rebuild after a major loss. If there is any time for self critical analysis it is now don't you think?

[onetexan]

123. This has nothing to do with self critical analysis

but more like Ms. Warren's comments were made for self serving purposes. She's definitely angling for a 2020 candidacy. I wouldn't put it past her & Bernie Sanders pairing up. They're doing the Dem. party no good with their snarky comments. I used to like her and thought she put the needs of the party and country first. Now i'm beginning to see the selfish side of her.

[LiberalLovinLug]

124. So let me get this straight

If a candidate might run in 2020, especially on the Democratic side, if they have any criticism of decisions made by the anyone in the party previously, the party that has been on a long losing streak all across the country from small elections to large, is not allowed? You think that voters would respect her more if she just said everything was fine, even though she didn't? She IS putting the needs of the party and country first by being as honest as she can.

You have proven it with your own attitude towards her that her critical analysis is not "self-serving" to folks like yourself. You want a candidate to tell you that everything is great. Obama never made a mistake, or Hillary, and the party is perfect. But how exactly is that helpful in the long run? Sometimes you have to take a bit of medicine before you get better. And win bigger.

[onetexan]

129. you can stop with the justification now

as u can keep it up till you're blue in the face and you'll still never convince me, and the folks who don't agree with you

[LiberalLovinLug]

137. Ok I'll stop justifying my position

I can see you'd rather live in your beautiful bubble where everything is already perfect. I'm actually a little envious.

[MrScorpio]

34. Damn Skippy! nt

[Left-over]

37. UNITE!!! DO NOT DIVIDE

[Cha]

98. RIGHT! TELL THAT TO BS AND EW!!!!!

[zentrum]

39. Unbelievable. I thought DU

...was not supposed to suppress the Democratic vote, or defame Democrats. Warren is a Democrat in good standing and has a huge national reputation. Hope she runs for President in 2020. Bernie caucuses with Democrats and helps them with their policies in Congress. He is often more reliable than than conservative Dems who vote with the Repugs, such as for Gorsuch.

The headline and its sarcasm are unforgivable in this venue.

[brush]

128. Wish they would go by DU rules. No bashing Dem figures, aka Obama.

[MountainFool]

42. wtf?

What kind of nonsense is this? The OP doesn't link to what the fuss is about (and I've had my head down working), but I've had a long list of problems with both Obama and the Dem party. I'm still furious about super delegates. Back room selection of candidates is just not something I'm ever going to be happy with. And don't get me started on Obama's actions vs. his wonderful speeches.

There is a thing called constructive criticism. We must be strong enough to embrace it, debate and improve. It is not the same as endorsing the opposition. Pretending that Dems are perfect, demanding loyalty to the party, and shouting down anyone that dares to criticize is a well worn path to oblivion.

I seem to remember blind loyalty as being part of the DU terms. I suspect I'll be banned shortly.

[Cha]

85. You clearly have not one clue about what President Obama

Accomplished while he was President.

Yet there you are whining about "constructive criticism".. you're not being constructive at all when you haven't bothered to avail yourself of the history.

[BainsBane]

87. Criticism cuts both ways

[NurseJackie]

95. LOL

I'm still furious about super delegates.

So, you're still upset about the primaries, huh? Wow. Time to let go. I recommend moving on and focusing more on things that are an ACTUAL threat to our nation.

There is a thing called constructive criticism.

People who publicly and angrily criticize will often flatter themselves by claiming that they're being "constructive". They talk about "keeping-it-real" and "just being honest" ... as if THEIR criticism has more value ... and as a way to validate themselves, and to justify their smears and attempts at public shaming. There's a difference between vengeful public insults and face-slapping, and a genuine effort to offer an opinion to help a person (or organization) to improve. I regret that not all of our party leaders have a complete grasp on what the concept of being "constructive" actually means. (But, I remain hopeful that this will change.)

shouting down anyone that dares to criticize is a well worn path to oblivion.

"Oblivion" huh? Oh-woe-are-we! (LOL)

I seem to remember blind loyalty as being part of the DU terms.

Seriously? ... "blind loyalty". Uh-huh, right. LOL!

[Saviolo]

45. Don't fall for it.

Warren is a valuable, active, and influential progressive on the Democratic side of the aisle, and her actions against the banks have raised the ire of wealthy vulture capitalists and bankers. She is becoming the victim of the same sort of smear campaign that the GOP ran against Hillary for over 30 years, and it's extremely well funded:

http://www.exposedbycmd.org/2017/04/28/whos-behind-the-billionaire-pac-targeting-elizabeth-warren/?utm_content=buffer77093&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

[lovemydogs]

47. I just posted something regarding why Hillary lost.

Many Trump voters were indeed Obama supporters.
There are studies from Democratic groups coming out and their findings are the opposite of what is posted here

[emulatorloo]

62. I've seen a lot posted here that is the opposite of the exit polling too

Worth spending a little time reviewing

http://edition.cnn.com/election/results/exit-polls

[SCVDem]

48. If the comments of these two were posted here on DU,

they would be alerted on for bashing fellow Democrats and continuing to fight the last election.

I am taken aback by the attacks on President Obama!

[DownriverDem]

51. Makes you wonder

Are these anti Dem folks really on our side?

[DownriverDem]

50. Guess what?

We have a two party system. That's how it works. Pick one.

[MountainFool]

55. yes, pick one

and then work to make it better.

[David__77]

54. There are two main parties, and plenty of struggle in each party.

And I see no problem with that, in itself. Zell Miller and Joe Lieberman were Democratic senators. Was criticizing them "anti-Democratic?" There has been and will be struggle.

[BainsBane]

56. and both have endorsed anti-choice candidates

I'm disappointed in Warren. I expected better from her.

[Cha]

96. I know! Definitely did Not see this coming.

[Cha]

102. More Attacks on President Obama from EW..

Elizabeth Warren says economic gains of Obama era have ‘giant blind spots’

https://www.boston.com/news/politics/2017/05/01/elizabeth-warren-says-economic-gains-of-obama-era-have-giant-blind-spots

Elizabeth Warren calls out Obama and Democrats for losing way on economy

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/may/01/elizabeth-warren-barack-obama-democrats-economy

Elizabeth Warren Blasts Ignorant Obama For Abandoning Working Class That's "Getting Kicked In The Teeth"

snip//

And, as the in-fighting ramps up, it seems that Elizabeth Warren is quickly emerging as the leader of the far-left movement. In fact, she has become increasingly critical of President Obama in recent days with her most recent attack coming via an interview with the Guardian in which she suggested that Obama was disconnected from the woes of the working class people of the United States who are "getting kicked in the teeth" after 8 years of his rule.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-05-01/

She's trying to appeal to the Obama haters whomever they are.

'Cause you know.. he didn't have Any Obstruction in Congress to Knock Down All the Bills he put forth.. Like Job bills for JOBS.

[BainsBane]

104. I find this recent construction of working class

Confusing. Someone is going through have to explain to me what Warren and Sanders mean when they use that term.

[aikoaiko]

58. What statements is your OP referencing?

[The Polack MSgt]

61. Specifically these 2

"I think President Obama, like many others in both parties, talk about a set of big national statistics that look shiny and great but increasingly have giant blind spots"

"The Republicans have clearly thrown their lot in with the rich and the powerful, but so have a lot of Democrats."
Sen. Warren. as quoted in the guardian

[aikoaiko]

63. It may be more about integrity than micro-demographic strategy.

And integrity is useful for winning elections.

[G_j]

68. That's it?

all the handwringing over that?

[The Polack MSgt]

72. I'e been pushing back against "Both Sides" BS for at least 12 years

Infuriates me to hear it from our own party big wheels.

This is some Bobo Brooks, Chris Cilliza level false equivalence.

[muriel_volestrangler]

74. It's not 'both sides', though

She, just like you, is criticising someDemocrats. She's criticising the Republicans in general.

And here's the proof it's not "both sides" stuff: her preceding sentence:

"Now, having said that, I think there are real differences between the Republicans and the Democrats here in the United States. "

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/may/01/elizabeth-warren-donald-trump-fight

[G_j]

75. well gee

somehow that part was excluded..

[The River]

59. What Nonsense

The "party" needs to be constructively criticized when necessary.
Given all of the losses it's had, it needs a progressive makeover.

[TNLib]

60. they're playing into Trumps hand

Just read in the WSJ trump is saying he wants to break up the banks.

It's complete bs but because of this nonsense Trump's playing up to the anti-Obama rubes that believe his nonsense.

Sander's and Warren's criticism just plays into 45's hand.

[mikehiggins]

64. The arrogance!

No one is allowed to criticize anything any of our Beloved Leaders in this party. It is the same attitude that greeted anyone who dared question the wisdom of the DNC manipulations in the last election.

Anyone who does not fall into line is sexist, racist or homophobic, if not secret Trumpoids or quizlings.

DU may have a policy against refighting the primary but that isn't stopping those who have cast one of the candidates into the outer darkness or some circle of the Inferno. Give it up, folks.The last REAL President isn't forever immune to criticism or question. It is part of political life and, mirable dictu, he isn't weeping and moaning about it. Warren and Sanders have stated their opinion. Obama seems okay with that. He's a big boy and really doesn't need to be protected.

And nobody needs to tell either Senator that Trump is the enemy. They're out there fighting the good fight everyday. Its those who pick at every imagined slight or disagreement that work to the GOPukes advantage, not those who are actually out there doing the work.

[The Polack MSgt]

69. My view is that these statements from the last 2 weeks

Are part of a misguided effort to court people who will not vote for Democrats in 2018 or 2020, at the risk of alienating those who will.

President Obama doesn't need me to defend him, Secretary Clinton doesn't need me either.

I'm sure the Senators don't need your help - and yet here we are - I am sure they appreciate the defense

[okieinpain]

65. +1 n/t.

[nikibatts]

67. No real reason to even mention this except to gain tactical political advantage. They know

being against the black man is a winner in many circles, even on the left.

[LovingA2andMI]

76. K/R.....

[Tarheel_Dem]

78. Thank you. If I hear "white working class" many more times, I think I might just explode.

[Starry Messenger]

84. Totally agreed, OP.

Disappointed in Warren especially.

[Eliot Rosewater]

126. Sanders would NEVER withdraw his comments but I wish Elizabeth would, or at least

qualify them with something like: "ideally this is not what we want but given the circumstances and the past, it is understandable"

Or better yet just withdraw the comments entirely and continue going after the actual enemy of the human race, GOP.

[countryjake]

130. Warren is all about building a grassroots Resistance movement

within the Democratic Party and that is far from "attacking" or being "against" our party, especially if one considers the very consistent stance she is taking in her attacks against Trump and the Rethugs, so it's hard for me to understand how you might arrive at the conclusions you've expressed in your OP.

Your opinion of what Sen. Warren says is ignoring the fact that there are millions of disaffected voters in this nation who no longer believe much of anything either political party claims to stand for, those marginalized and disenfranchised people of our country, the ones who have successfully been beaten down by the regressive government policies of the past twenty-five yrs...working-poor men and women, Black men and women, all the minorities who rarely have had any say in this nation's government. None of them are Trump voters.

I was pretty pleased with Sen. Warren's recent interview in The Guardian (if that's what you're referring to) and I fail to see how any of her statements could be seen as "winking" or "flirting" with white supremacists or misogynists. If you think that the only "economically anxious" people in this country are all right-wing republicans, I'd say that you may not have been out speaking to many Democrats lately.

The Resistance is growing and it's now a hell of a lot more relevant than it was just a short six months ago.

"We nasty women are going to march our nasty feet to cast our nasty votes to get you out of our lives forever." ~ Senator Elizabeth Warren

[The Polack MSgt]

132. I'm encouraged by the use of "our party"

Here is my take on why Senator Warren's and Senator Sanders' comments and tone raise the hackles on us old cranky Democrats.

All through Reagan, Bush one and two, the contract on America era and the Party of Hell No era we have been Democrats. We were fighting and - as it is now popular to say - Resisting the GOP throughout those years and we still are.

We are told repeatedly that these "disaffected voters" hate our party, just slightly less than the Trump Party. So we need to have our high profile Democrats acknowledge their issues etc. etc. And we also need to change to accommodate a Senator who's dislike for our party never waned enough for him to consider joining it.

Until he needed to.

President Obama and Secretary Clinton are fucking important to us but they appear to be objects of disdain to the very people who we are told we now have to welcome. So when the leading Progressive voices give remarks about how President Obama taking a paying gig are disappointing, and that many Democrats have been siding with big business and against the little guy, it flat pisses us off.

We remember that these disaffected voters hated Secretary Clinton because they swallowed the R.W. lies and smears of the last 3 decades. Forgive me if I don't radiate perfect confidence in their opinions.

We also know which other audience hold Pres. Obama and Sec. Clinton as objects of disdain, so that is why these echos of R.W. criticisms - coming from a Democratic Senator no less - will always get a reaction.

And that - as I stated several times on this thread is why I wonder who the hell are they talking to?

[countryjake]

133. "Our party"?? Which party do you think she's building?

...and I wonder to whom you're directing that snide comment, 'I'm encouraged by the use of "our party"'?

I'd be willing to bet, dollars to donuts, that I am an older and crankier Democrat than you.

Those disaffected voters that I spoke of are members of the Democratic Party, they just no longer see any reason to get up, get out, or mail in their vote. Anyone who did any walking and talking last fall to get people to the polls or, in my case, get them to fill out their ballots and actually send them in, surely knows that what I say is true...we were NOT working off of lists from some other party.

The meme went out a long time ago, Wall$t sees both Senators Warren and Sanders as threats, there were articles on exactly that a couple of yrs ago, back before this country was even in full campaign mode. And every single time either of those two speak out about anything that could possibly build a concrete solidarity within this nation, to defeat this reactionary racist right-wing slide we're experiencing, that same meme flares up again, larger than it was before, for only one reason...divide and conquer.

I'll stick with the Resistance Movement, thank you very much, because I believe that is where our Hope ultimately lies. Nobody has ever won anything in this country by sitting around on their asses, carping about this or that, without actually getting out there, into the streets, and standing up to TPTB.

[padah513]

131. Unity

I think the only thing anybody in leadership should be discussing right now is unity. All these self-inflicted wounds from them don't help; they just drive us in the party further apart and we wind up arguing for who knows how long. I believe that at some point cooler heads will prevail and we will find our way, but I have a different perspective about the Obama speaking situation that no one seems to be taking into consideration. If someone else brought it up before, then I apologize for not seeing it. My point is this. Democrats might be able to win elections without the African American vote, but it won't be easy, and admonishing perhaps the most popular African American in the country because as a "private citizen" he elects to make money at something he is extremely good at doesn't look good to many African Americans, myself included, no matter what the reason for the admonishment might be. These Republicans put this man AND his family through hell for eight years, and personally I think he deserves whatever the going rate is for his oratory skill x 1000. Look, I think the world of both Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren and would vote for either one in a heartbeat if they were running for President against a Republican, but I know more than a few people who were extremely pissed by their comments. It was the perception that he didn't have a right to make a living anyway he chose, only the way they chose. Now don't get me wrong. I'm not saying anyone on this planet is above criticism, but can't we as Democrats at some point stop throwing other Democrats under the bus? We have much bigger things to focus on, and Typhoon Trump is trying to destroy everything in sight, both for monetary gain for himself and his rich friends, and on behalf of a foreign entity. It's time to unify the party, and this Democrat on Democrat drama has got to stop!