Dear Allies - Stop Using Gay As An Insult

[Saviolo]

From "ANGRY BLACK HOEMO" (not my work)

With all the mess surround president Drumpf (and there’s way too much to keep up with), one of the big topics is his ties with Vladimir Putin and Russia. For those unaware of said ties, I don’t feel like giving an overview and you’re likely reading this from a device that has Google. But basically, some of the popular chosen responses to the connection between the two has been something to the tune of:

Putin’s a soft, Gay little fairy that wears makeup and rides unicorns…THAT’S SO FUCKING FUNNY! LOL!

Now, look…the intent is clear and I get it. Trump is known to be less-than-enlightened when it comes to LGBTQ people, and Putin? Well, duh. So, of course, the “logical” thing would be to would be to insinuate that they must be a couple, because that’s long been the go-to for most “allies” (and even some Gay people, to be honest). On the surface, it seems helpful. It even might seem funny. But simply put? If you’re purporting to be an “ally” of ours, stop doing this bullshit.

First of all, if we know that Putin and Trump are two people that carry antagonistic attitudes towards Gay men and other LGBTQ people, on a good day, don’t you think it would only serve to further endanger us by insinuating that homophobic people are Gay? Don’t you think that would just drive them to resent Gay people even more? Perhaps consider that, aside from the fact that it does nothing to reverse to effects of anti-Gay legislation, it could serve to embolden their policies against us that much more.

Not to mention that the whole “homophobes are just closeted gay people” trope is problematic, in and of itself. It creates this implication that Gay people are responsible for our own oppression, which gives cishet homophobes an easy out. It insulates the issue of homophobia to Gay men, ourselves, which disrupts much-needed inspection of the patriarchal systems that are actually maintaining homophobia. Don’t get me wrong, I absolutely believe some homophobes are closet cases, but that’s nowhere near the extent of the issue. On top of being inaccurate, it’s a lazy oversimplification of a complex, systemic problem.

“Allyship” for us is simply a matter of affirming our humanity and right to exist as our true selves…dassit. But taking and reinforcing the very anti-Gay tropes that were created by patriarchy & homophobia in the first place? If that’s your idea of support for Gay people, keep it. I’m good.

Just something to think about.

Please read the whole post here: http://angryblackhoemo.com/2017/05/03/dear-allies-stop-using-gay-insult/

And right now, a lot of the racist, homophobic white nationalists among Trump's supporters are also calling Stephen Colbert's bit homophobic because it aids in their narrative at this time. Don't be fooled by this, they are not allies, and they will throw us LGBTQ people to the dogs again as soon as it becomes convenient to do so again.

[The Polack MSgt]

1. Kick and effin' Rec

Been a bit of a peeve of mine since the "Disco Sucks" days - That phrase was constructed to purposefully equate Disco with gay men, and therefore as bad.

The same with, and please pardon me for this, calling some one who pisses you of a C++k Sucker.

It is something I try to keep clear of, although I still slip on my language. Thanks for the link.

Peace

[Saviolo]

3. Yes!

The "Disco Sucks" idea was directly related to Disco arising out of queer and black spaces when that was still taboo.

... also this may be one of my favourite tracks of all time:

[JudyM]

7. Ha! Fun to listen to that again.

[cwydro]

33. LOVED that song !

I had a blast as a young gay woman

[frankieallen]

4. How does "disco sucks" equate with gay men exactly? I don't get it

[MineralMan]

6. It's a reference to fellatio.

For a lot of straight men, it's impossible for them to imagine themselves performing that act, so they consider two men engaged in it as baaad.

Now, mind you, for most straight men it's only being the giver of fellatio that is baaad. They'll gladly receive it from women, even if they're unwilling to return that favor.

But, they think women aren't all that goood anyway, so giving head is baaad, period, in their minds, despite their willingness to receive it.

That's why "sucks" is a bad thing and why straight men who use the word in that way consider it to be a bad thing.

It might seem complicated, but it's really simple. They don't like women or gay men. To complicate things even further, though, they do enjoy watching women doing sexual things, even things they won't do themselves.

People are decidedly odd.

[Saviolo]

9. As I said above

Disco arose primarily out of black and queer spaces, and the topics were frequently about those communities living on the edge (such as Donna Summer's amazing Bad Girls

And that made straight white males uncomfortable at a time when being gay or being black was still not accepted. Being gay was even illegal in the USA. Bad Girls (the album) came out in '79, and the Stonewall Riots were only 10 years before. Being gay was still defacto illegal in many ways in the United States. The reason that homosexuals were considered a security risk during the Cold War (mostly 50's to 60's) was that gay men were still closeted because they would lose their jobs, their families, and potentially be imprisoned if they were outed, so Russian spies would exert pressure on gay men working in government for secrets in exchange for not ruining their lives.

In much of the USA, it was illegal for interracial couples (at the time, usually meaning white/black) to marry until the late 60's.

There is a strong undercurrent of anti-gay and racist sentiment behind "Disco Sucks."

[The Polack MSgt]

14. Thank you for explaining my point

I grew up with a gay friend that I tried to protect.
All the while there was a family friend groping and abusing kids. And he passed as straight.

All the people who made my life shitty were straight and white.

So, keep on telling the truth

[Saviolo]

15. If it helps

I'm all about being the pedantic history lesson explainer

There's a lot to know and say, and no one has it all, so I'm happy to try and help educate.

[The Polack MSgt]

17. Thank you. Again

Pleased to make your (digital) acquaintance.

[cwydro]

32. The family friend probably WAS straight.

Pedophiles and gay people are not the same.

[The Polack MSgt]

34. I understand that, and if I appeared to equate the 2, I apologize

Just pointing to the late 70's ignorance and craziness.

An adult church going pedophile coach is protected by the his public image but a scared kid needed a big football playing friend to lie for him and keep other assholes from harassing him.

The pedo is dead now and the scared kid is a married music theory professor, happy endings all around.

Peace

[cwydro]

35. I understand.

I know you do too, but recent nonsense on this board has made me not so sure about others.

[MicaelS]

40. I call BS on you last statement.

I was 20 when Disco hit big time. Not once did I hear, or read "Disco Sucks" to have anything to do with anti-gay and racist sentiments.

I heard the term many times from friends and acquaintances. When asking them why, they could not give a coherent or logical answer. The only answer I regularly got was "Because it does."

It was just the disgruntled attitudes of a lot of Rock fans who hated the idea of anything but Rock being popular.

[Saviolo]

43. Lots of people just didn't like disco

You are absolutely right, but there was a fair sized chunk of people who didn't like disco particularly because it arose from black and queer spaces, and that made them uncomfortable. Guys who listened to disco were considered effeminate or queer while listening to rock music was masculine. Same thing in the 80's. I can't tell you how many times I got called fag because I listened to Wham! or Duran Duran.

[bettyellen]

63. There was a ton of racism and homophobia in the "disco sucks" movement ....

It wa spretty prevelant. Maybe your friends couldn't unpack why it was, but it was not just about the music/ it was the people- the demographics of the "others".

[Adrahil]

55. Not convinced "sucks" is necessarily homophobic.

AS I was growing up, my grandfather and father both used the expression "sucks eggs." As in "this situation really sucks eggs." It was old timey and corny, but I certainly knew what it meant. When the term "sucks" emerged int he 80's, I just assumed it was shortening of that old epithet. Maybe not, but I never thought of the term as homophobic.

There are a bunch of common terms that are homophobic or sexist, or racist, of course.

Many people do not know that the term gypped, meaning cheated, refers to Gypsies, or the the Romani people. Likewise, to say someone "welched" on the deal is to imply that like a Welshman, they back out of an already agreed upon deal.

Of course, calling someone a "pussy" implies that women are cowardly and despicable. Etc, etc.

[Shandris]

61. Interesting.

I have to admit, while I was alive at the death of disco I wasn't old enough to remember much but my dad going to the disco club on Friday nights, but only a couple times (must have been 78, 79 or so I guess?).

I even watched 'The Death of Disco' or something similarly-titled on CNN once, but I don't recall hearing the first word about the whole 'sucks' and 'arising out of gay and queer spaces'. Even when I heard 'sucks' in the 80s it was explained to me as coming from 'suck an egg', an old saying from the 40s (according to my grandfather).

Makes me wonder if they were simply unaware (fundie Christians aren't liable to have known much about the culture), or if it was a cover story. It's kind of suprising to me that I'm in my 40s now and JUST NOW hearing this. That's one of those 'Holy crap, you really DO learn something new' things.

Anywho, enough of my rambling, just wanted to express my surprise and thank you for pointing that out!

[bettyellen]

2. It's the Bill Maher BS influence- that he takes for RW framing is nothing to be proud ofZzz

[snooper2]

5. had to google what a hoemo was, urban dictionary- interesting tag to put on ones self....

considering the writing of the blog

[Behind the Aegis]

8. Again, THANK YOU!!!!

Not to mention that the whole “homophobes are just closeted gay people” trope is problematic, in and of itself. It creates this implication that Gay people are responsible for our own oppression, which gives cishet homophobes an easy out. It insulates the issue of homophobia to Gay men, ourselves, which disrupts much-needed inspection of the patriarchal systems that are actually maintaining homophobia. Don’t get me wrong, I absolutely believe some homophobes are closet cases, but that’s nowhere near the extent of the issue. On top of being inaccurate, it’s a lazy oversimplification of a complex, systemic problem.

Fuck everything holy and unholy, but, boy, does this trope PISS ME OFF! As soon as a homophobic asshole says something, it is inevitability followed by the "He's probably a closet case!" EVERY....FUCKING....TIME! The only exceptions seem to be when the homophobe is female or a left-oriented (I don't know why that is). I have railed against this so many times, the biggest example was the Orlando massacre and so many people tried to make it out as a case of "self-loathing" with such "proof" as "his ex-wife said he was probably gay" and "he took duckie face selfies!". When I explained why this trope is so goddamned offensive I was told by someone here that I, a gay man, was "HOMOSPLAIN-ing'" to him, a cis-heterosexual! Just another example of so-called liberals using homophobia to attack and debase gay men.

Sure, there are gay people who don't agree with this or that, and that is fine. However, using coded gay imagery to mock someone is HOMOPHOBIC. End of discussion!

[Saviolo]

10. I love my non-LGBTQ allies

But those allies - and allies in general to any at-risk community - really need to listen to those communities, and speak with them, not for them. I've seen so much tone policing and re-framing of issues from a position of privilege, and I just encourage all allies to stop, listen, and speak with - not for.

Sure, there are gay people who don't agree with this or that, and that is fine. However, using coded gay imagery to mock someone is HOMOPHOBIC. End of discussion!

Preach, sister.

[Behind the Aegis]

11. This deserves to be said again....

allies - and allies in general to any at-risk community - really need to listen to those communities, and speak with them, not for them.

I try to be a good ally to other communities to which I do not belong (trans, African-American, women, differently abled, deaf/hearing-impaired), and I always try to remember to check my privilege at the door. I sometimes fail to do so, and it is on me to correct the mistake. So, it shouldn't be too much to ask for allies to our community to not lecture us and not to drown our voices out in order to hear themselves.

[moriah]

22. On the subject of Orlando...

... I made a FB rant explaining the "Some Asshole" rule for me, including that it was totally unnecessary to speculate on their motives, but that one was a really stupid attempt.

[Ms. Toad]

12. And that goes for people on DU, as well -

It is extremely rare for anyone using gay as an insult to have their post hidden. I got a 24-hour alert time-out the last time I alerted on a post that used gay as an insult, because directing it at a Republican meant that not a single juror was willing to acknowledge how offensive it was.

[Saviolo]

13. Me too

Well, not time-out, but I've called people out for making gay jokes, and basically got a confused "Whaaaa?" in response. It's a pretty ingrained part of our culture now, sadly, and I hate to be That Guy, but I try to point it out whenever I see it happening. Not to shame or anything, just to educate, and hopefully reduce the incidence.

[Ms. Toad]

16. When I have the energy to deal with the flack, I point it out.

If it's a serial offender, or I don't want to deal with a bunch of the inevitable retorts about how stupid I am, it's just hipocrisy they were pointing out, anything is fair game for use against republicans, etc. I alert and wipe my hands.

[loyalsister]

47. Progressivism does not automatically translate to sensitivity

It reminds me of a failed effort to try to explain why Three's Company is offensive to a person who has always been heavily involved with the Demoratic party.
I didn't know or understand the implications when I was a child, but when I began to give it some thought it became very clear. It baffles me when progressives cling to turning identity into insult.

[Behind the Aegis]

18. Kicking this because more people need to read this and understand this.

It isn't just the hypocrisy of the right which is in question!

Some animals are more equal than others.

[countryjake]

19. Kick to raise consciousness!

And a thank you, Saviolo, for doing it!

Reading your post was a smack to the forehead moment for me.

[Saviolo]

20. Thanks!

And thanks for learning

[countryjake]

36. It is amazing...

to me how so many can adamantly claim "no big deal", just to cheer on Colbert who, himself, has said that he was unnecessarily crude.

I watched his show on Monday night when it was on tv and failed to even hear that particular part of his monologue...the first part of it was bleeped out and I wasn't sure what that second word could be, but I probably would have had to google it anyway if I had understood what he'd said, since I've never heard that expression before. Didn't even realize til I came on here the next afternoon and posted videos of the show into another's thread (and someone else made mention of his homophobic comment) that it dawned on me what had been censored (and how insensitive his slur was).

But I know personally the effect that denigration has on anyone, everyone, and especially, entire communities of already marginalized people whose voices are barely heard in their struggle for equality and against discrimination. Putting other people down is a practice I do try to avoid.

Thanks again for your thread!

[beam me up scottie]

45. Very well said.

I knew what he said and what it meant - and I cringed. I know Colbert isn't a homophobe and that the right is simply using this as a weapon to attack him because he criticized Trump - but the joke was still homophobic. It might not have offended everyone but that doesn't change the fact that it was insensitive.

I wasn't always aware of how offensive this kind of slur was but a good friend explained it to me years ago and since then I've tried to call it out when I see it.

[Behind the Aegis]

46. It is amazing how some refuse to accept the feelings of the GLBT community.

There has been an incredible amount of heterosexual privilege on display. This heterosexism is just as toxic as homophobia because it encourages the making of GLBT back into second-class citizens. The rationalizations have been from benign to downright offensive and even worse than the original joke! It has shown, at least to me, while GLBT people are under attack by the RW, most stories fall off into oblivion within hours of posting, that there are those who aren't really allies or are only allies on their terms.

[beam me up scottie]

59. Indeed.

And this is nothing new, you've been trying to explain this for years. Some of us are listening, BtA, so don't give up.

[TheFrenchRazor]

21. agreed, and stop using female as an insult, too. nt

[Behind the Aegis]

23. Wow!

Seems you struck a nerve with quite a few people. How dare you "homosplain'"! I will say it has some positive effects and that is I now know who aren't really allies, no matter what fucking smilie or avatar they may use, and have seen some people actually take o heart what you have said. Good on you! YOU did what needed to be done and in doing so, educated some people and exposed others!

[beam me up scottie]

39. +1

[Behind the Aegis]

24. Again!

MORE people need to read this...STAT!

[Inkfreak]

38. Just did. Rec & kicked for being a truthbomb.

[RedWedge]

25. Well said. It's not hard. English is a rich language, and no one loses anything by putting aside

words that hurt our friends and neighbors. K&R

[demmiblue]

26. K&R

[pnwmom]

27. I am so GLAD you started this positive thread. Thank you, thank you, thank you.

[sl8]

28. K&R. n/t

[Rollo]

29. Most homophobes seem to be severely repressed, if not closet cases...

Fuck 'em

[Saviolo]

30. I refer to the original article:

Not to mention that the whole “homophobes are just closeted gay people” trope is problematic, in and of itself. It creates this implication that Gay people are responsible for our own oppression, which gives cishet homophobes an easy out. It insulates the issue of homophobia to Gay men, ourselves, which disrupts much-needed inspection of the patriarchal systems that are actually maintaining homophobia. Don’t get me wrong, I absolutely believe some homophobes are closet cases, but that’s nowhere near the extent of the issue. On top of being inaccurate, it’s a lazy oversimplification of a complex, systemic problem.

[Behind the Aegis]

31. A simple concept.

However, it seems to elude people.

[Rollo]

60. I refer you to my post, which you apparently didn't understand...

Your OP cited as a "trope", a blanket statement that "homophobes are just closeted gay people".

My post did not make such a blanket statement. It was doubly qualified, stating "Most homophobes seem to be severely repressed". Note that I didn't say "All homophobes", as was implied by your alleged trope. And I said in that part of the sentence, "severely repressed", not "just closet cases" as your alleged trope claims.

I did go on to say, a very qualified, "if not closet cases". This is by no means an absolute like your OP claim, rather, it is a derivative of a qualified assessment.

Now, whether it is "most" as opposed to "some" can be argued. I don't think you can claim that "no homophobes" are not severely repressed. Nor do I think you can claim that no homophobes are closet cases. We have only to look at some highly publicized cases, such as Idaho Senator Larry Craig, who previously supported a proposed federal ban on same-sex marriage, supported a state constitutional amendment to ban such marriages, opposed legislation that would include sexual orientation in the definition of hate crimes. The Human Rights Campaign gave Craig its lowest rating, ZERO.

And yet Senator Craig was somehow arrested in an airport restroom on suspicion of soliciting sex from a male undercover officer. Craig even pleaded guilty to a reduced charge of disturbing the peace, and then later tried to back out of that plea deal. His defense? "I have a wide stance". LOL. In addition, there's a rather long list of gay men who have come forward to state that they had had sexual relations to Senator Craig.

Craig's case is not unique. His sort of situation may be on the wane as increased social (and legal) acceptance of same sex couples, marriages, and legal penalties for discrimination against people on the basis of their sexual orientation has reduced the number of "closet cases" who are also outspoken in public against gay rights.

No, I'm not saying ALL homophobes are closet cases, and I resent how you and others are spinning my post.

[bettyellen]

64. Using the trope and pushed people don't like it. It's not most homophobes....

And no one claimed it's none. It's just really victim blaming irrelevant bullshit.

[Rollo]

65. Thanks for sharing!

[beam me up scottie]

37. Kicked and highly recommended!

Excellent post!

[mythology]

41. As a straight white guy, I'm proud to agree with this

My mom would never have tolerated me saying that and went to some absurd lengths to get my stepbrother to stop saying it (he's since reformed and very pointedly doesn't say "oh that's so gay" anymore).

Nothing good comes from linking bad people as being gay.

[pnwmom]

58. Good for your wise and caring mother!

[Rhiannon12866]

42. K&R! Important and timely article.

Don't be discouraged, kicking this back to the top so more people will see and read it.

[cwydro]

44. Morning kick for a great post.

We certainly learned something yesterday!

[Behind the Aegis]

49. Joining you in another kick

If that travesty of "I am an ally that approves of homophobic imagery" is on page one, then so will this one!

[cwydro]

50. I agree.

No doubt she's hoping it goes away.

[Saviolo]

52. Thanks both of you!

This is my first "on fire" discussion at DU (mostly because I don't think I really post particularly controversial things... I didn't think this was going to be controversial, either!)

[countryjake]

53. Yup... Kick!

[Ms. Toad]

51. This should have hundreds of recommendations.

It's disgraceful, but unfortunately par for the course around here recently, that it has fewer recommendations than a thread that declares my life fair game as a weapon against vile people.

[countryjake]

54. ...

[pnwmom]

57. Yes, it should. And instead it got a counter OP with almost as many recs. n/t

[cwydro]

62. And a more recent thread with posters happily slinging slurs.

I'm surprised. Perhaps I shouldn't be, but there it is.

Smh.

[LostOne4Ever]

56. Happy to k&r!!! Nt