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babylonsister

(171,056 posts)
Sun May 7, 2017, 08:00 AM May 2017

Kurt Eichenwald: 'and they smiled and high-fived'

https://www.facebook.com/kurt.eichenwald.1/posts/1448157071889590

Kurt Eichenwald
9 hrs ·


In 1986, I left a job I loved for one I hated. I had been desperately sick for seven years, with medical bills no one could possibly cover. But I was approaching the dreaded age of 25, when I would be forced off of my parent’s insurance policy. Everyone knew, without insurance, I would die. I was frequently hospitalized. My treatments were very expensive. But the job I loved offered no insurance. The one I hated did.

This was the second time insurance chose the direction of my life. I applied for the job of my dreams a year before. The boss told me he wanted to hire me, but theirs was a small company. They already had a person with high medical costs on salary. If they hired me, he said, their insurer would drop them. Insurance companies could do that back then.

But with the job I hated, I thought I was safe. Then I found out, even the group policy had a preexisting condition clause: I would not be insured for nine months. I could not stay. I would go bankrupt. And so, I went to find another job. All I wanted was insurance. It didn’t matter the job. Insurance would decide my career.
I had been a political writer at CBS, an associate editor at National Journal. Very successful at my age. But I only had a few weeks until I was uninsured. I begged a friend at the New York Times to help me. He offered to help me land a position as a copy boy. It was a terrible job, he knew, but it had insurance. At first, I was turned down for the job – I was way too overqualified, the HR person said. But my friend intervened and, after years of personal success, I agreed to take a job fetching people’s coffee.

There was a two-week period before I began my job when I was completely uncovered. I ended up hospitalized. By the time I was conscious, I had rung up a bill in excess of $10,000. That was almost half my expected full-year salary. I called my parents, in tears. I didn’t know what to do. They told me they would take care of it.

Nothing was more depressing than having to have gived up everything for insurance, to take a job where everyone was younger than me, everyone was far less experienced than me. And I knew, if I lost my job, I would lose my insurance. And if I lost my insurance, I could die. So I worked – seven days a week, 12-18 hours a day. If nothing else, that helped me believe I would not be fired from my lousy job. But it also gave me the chance to write for various sections of the paper. I would do my copy boy job eight hours a day, then start reporting and writing. This went on for two years – no vacations, no break, terrified every day.

Then, I was offered a junior reporter’s job at the Times. One-year tryout. I worked almost every day. I rarely left the office. I knew the stakes. For me, this wasn’t about being a reporter. This was about keeping my insurance.

In my late 20s, I married. My wife is a doctor. At that point, I had greater freedom. Even if I lost my job, I could be on her insurance. Because of that freedom, I began to write books. If the Times got mad at me for it, it would be ok. But still, I could never shake the belief that I could never say no. I took every assignment. I did not take book leaves. We rarely vacationed.

I finally started to relax around 2008. I had never lost insurance for 12 years. Then, a miracle: the rules keeping people with preexisting conditions from being insured were ended under ACA. I listened to blowhards like Rush Limbaugh rage that people like me – and people with asthma and cancer and cystic fibrosis – were leeches, demanding charity. It amazed me how stupid he and his followers were, not understanding that, without private insurance, people like me would all be on government disability. We would have to stop working in order to survive. People were instilled with rage about a topic they didn’t even understand.

No matter. I knew I would never have to face that problem again. More important, I knew the millions and millions of others like me – young kids, middle aged, whatever – would never again be forced to make decisions about their lives giving up their dreams solely for the insurance. I would hear every day from my wife about people who came to her office in horrible medical shape, people who had gone without treatment or sought their medical care at emergency rooms. People who could only get care in the ER rang up giant medical bills, so expensive no one could pay them. And so the taxpayers picked up the cost. Now, those same people were getting care from my wife with insurance they purchased. Opponents raged about their taxes paying for the subsidies, so ignorant they had no idea their taxes had been paying for the far more expensive emergency room care before.

Last week, the House passed a bill that would push everyone with preexisting conditions back into the same situation. The representatives billowed and cooed that high-risk pools would protect us, fooling the same uneducated ones who didn’t know they paid for the uninsured. High risk pools had been tried before. They failed. But these members of congress probably didn’t even know that. They didn’t care enough to hold hearings to find out whether high-risk pools would work. They didn’t wait to find out how many people would lose their insurance. They had to rush it through. Then they cheered for themselves.

Meanwhile, those of us with preexisting conditions were plunged back into fear. Foundations for people with chronic diseases began receiving phone calls from panicked people. My wife and I reviewed our options if this bill became law. We are middle aged now, which presented new issues. She is four years older than me. She hits retirement age in five years. If she retired and was on Medicare, I would be clinging to a slender thread to keep my insurance. I could never write another book. It would be too dangerous. My wife said she would work until she was almost 70 to keep me safe. Guilt overwhelmed me. She was born in Britain, and we discussed her citizenship and, if necessary, we could move there if I lost my coverage. We would have to burn through our savings for a long time, but eventually I might be able to get onto national health insurance.

But I don’t want to leave America. I don’t want my wife to work until she’s almost 70. I don’t want to be guilty. And most important, I don’t want all the other people with preexisting conditions to be forced to make their life decisions based on where they can get group insurance. Or worse, to not be able to obtain group insurance, be denied private insurance and die.

I watched Fox News. They giggled and laughed that people were being hysterical about preexisting conditions. There were high-risk pools, they sneered, that states could participate in unless they didn’t want to. I watched the clip, over and over, of those self-congratulatory members of Congress, high-fiving and smiling, as I knew the situation at my house was playing out at millions of houses where talking points and rationalizations didn’t change the realities of what we would face. I commented about how terrible this was. And then I saw comments from people deriding those with preexisting conditions as wanting charity.

I thought of members of Congress who wanted prisons as brutal as possible, until they themselves were jailed; then, they became advocates for prison reform. I thought of the ones who screamed about gays until their child came out, then they became tolerant. I thought about the members of Congress who happily sent other people’s children off to fight in Vietnam, while getting their own kids deferments and spots in the National Guard or reserves, making sure they wouldn’t see battle. And then I thought of the child whose parents home I visited, who told me of their boy dying of suffocation in his mother’s arms as they rushed to the hospital. They hadn’t been able to afford his inhaler that week. They had no insurance. They planned to buy it the week that followed. Their son died two days after they decided to take the risk.

And the members of Congress smiled and high-fived.

More people’s children would die. And the members of Congress smiled and high-fived. People would be forced to take jobs they did not want or marry people they did not love. And the members of Congress smiled and high-fived. For millions, every day would be terrifying as they wondered if they would they run up bills that day that would bankrupt them or would they be unable to get treatment? Would they live through the week? And the members of Congress smiled and high-fived.


My anger exploded. I wanted them to feel the consequences of what they thought was so wonderful. Why should they be exempt from the damage they would inflict on others from their vote, votes they cast with so little concern about others that they didn’t hold hearings to find out what damage they might cause?
And so I tweeted, “As one with a preexisting condition, I hope every GOPr who voted for Trumpcare get a long-term condition, loses their insurance, and die.”

Harsh? You bet. I wanted the words to be blunt, to lay out the reality of what real people would face, people who didn’t have the ability of members of Congress to avoid the consequences they voted to inflict on real people.

Conservatives broke out the fainting couches. I was wishing Republicans to die, they moaned. I forgot we live in an era where fools will interpret it the way they are told. One of the propagandists at the Daily Caller, after emailing me for comment at 3:00 in the morning, posted a story proclaiming I wanted my political opponents to die. And the conservative trolls descended, screaming for my death.

I remain angry. I remember the tears of that woman whose son died in her arms. I remember my struggles. I remembered my fears. I remembered the fears of so many others I have spoken to over the years who struggled with preexisting conditions.

I deleted the tweet. Apparently, confronting people with the reality of what they have chosen is just too inappropriate. Voting to let people die is fine, rubbing the fact that they voted to do that is just wrong.
Do I regret what I said? No. I want those words to sink in. My tweet won’t kill anyone. But the vote from those members of Congress will.

And if they are not forced to confront what they are doing, they will just keep smiling and high-fiving.
64 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Kurt Eichenwald: 'and they smiled and high-fived' (Original Post) babylonsister May 2017 OP
Kurt's tweet was right on. Kath2 May 2017 #1
Good article, read it last night on Facebook. beam me up scottie May 2017 #2
As one with a preexisting condition, I hope every GOPr who voted for Trumpcare get a long-term smirkymonkey May 2017 #3
I too have pre-existing condition and can't believe how CRUEL GOP'ers are - have they not ever had.. iluvtennis May 2017 #39
I hope they all burn in hell for this. smirkymonkey May 2017 #44
Agree iluvtennis May 2017 #47
I've got pre-existing conditions too. BlancheSplanchnik May 2017 #60
That little celebration in the Rose Garden will cost them. Ligyron May 2017 #4
+1!!! THIS Dustlawyer May 2017 #5
I am so sorry to hear about your son. 3catwoman3 May 2017 #25
Me too. Lots of hugs and hearts to you iluvtennis May 2017 #48
I'm so sorry about your son renate May 2017 #28
Thank you all for your kind words. It is an old scar that re-opens from Dustlawyer May 2017 #56
Raul Labrador. Remember that name. calimary May 2017 #37
Also, this: PROOF that you DIE if you can't afford health care. calimary May 2017 #57
Great article. dalton99a May 2017 #6
I'm with Kurt. My feelings exactly.... paleotn May 2017 #7
Their own insrance Scarsdale May 2017 #8
Eichenwald describes PatSeg May 2017 #9
I've always thought that this was a feature liked by the big companies. yardwork May 2017 #19
That is an excellent point PatSeg May 2017 #23
Yes. Entrepreneurship and small businesses would take off with universal health care. yardwork May 2017 #58
Years ago PatSeg May 2017 #61
He also describes something similar for our family: our backup plan for medical insurance. mwooldri May 2017 #63
You must have been PatSeg May 2017 #64
Touched an emotional cord in me mcar May 2017 #10
I thought the new GOP House bill provides for pre-existing conditions, if you remain Honeycombe8 May 2017 #11
What happens if you loose your job? HelenWheels May 2017 #12
COBRA. Honeycombe8 May 2017 #15
Seriously? Ms. Toad May 2017 #20
Cobra is just the plan your employer has. Honeycombe8 May 2017 #27
Oh my god. lostnfound May 2017 #29
I had to calm myself down quite a bit Ms. Toad May 2017 #34
Please don't try to school me on the state of access to health care Ms. Toad May 2017 #32
You have no idea what you're talking about Grins May 2017 #35
I know, I know. The question was what can he do so that he has continuous coverage. Honeycombe8 May 2017 #41
If the employee can document that as the reason she was let go, Ms. Toad May 2017 #43
Yes, it is a whopper of a cost. Honeycombe8 May 2017 #49
Have you ever priced cobra?.. could YOU afford it? annabanana May 2017 #40
See my prior post. Why are you angry at me for what happens when you lose your job? Honeycombe8 May 2017 #42
You might want to check the tone of your post. Ms. Toad May 2017 #46
There's nothing wrong with my tone. You, OTOH, have an angry tone. Honeycombe8 May 2017 #51
Oh God, COBRA. calimary May 2017 #50
Wow. That's a lot. Mine was $600 in 2012. United Healthcare. Honeycombe8 May 2017 #52
One of my kids just aged off my insurance. The difference is huge. yardwork May 2017 #59
Yes and no Phoenix61 May 2017 #14
And when your state opts out of essential health benefits Ms. Toad May 2017 #17
You are lucky if you can work until 72. lark May 2017 #24
I hear you. Ms. Toad May 2017 #33
If you're paying for your own insurance and the premiums triple Merlot May 2017 #31
No. As a matter of fact, this bill, as written, annabanana May 2017 #38
Yep. I am already doing a job search for when I hit retirement age. mn9driver May 2017 #13
Good luck w/that. There are few jobs these days w/family coverage... Honeycombe8 May 2017 #16
I wish everybody would read this. yardwork May 2017 #18
Very powerful Hekate May 2017 #21
I was in a "high risk pool" B Stieg May 2017 #22
obamacare freed me from a dead marriage. mopinko May 2017 #26
Put the tweet back up!!! Moostache May 2017 #30
Wonderful article. Now check this one out at the Reich-wing Washington Times... Grins May 2017 #36
K&R. dchill May 2017 #45
Three things about "Pre-existing Conditions" ThoughtCriminal May 2017 #53
Excellent!!!!! Your very expressive...there will be payback! Pauldg47 May 2017 #54
this exemplifies the total stupidity of the left/dems ignoring rw radio certainot May 2017 #55
Removing protections for Americans. mwooldri May 2017 #62

beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)
2. Good article, read it last night on Facebook.
Sun May 7, 2017, 08:11 AM
May 2017
More people’s children would die. And the members of Congress smiled and high-fived. People would be forced to take jobs they did not want or marry people they did not love. And the members of Congress smiled and high-fived. For millions, every day would be terrifying as they wondered if they would they run up bills that day that would bankrupt them or would they be unable to get treatment? Would they live through the week? And the members of Congress smiled and high-fived.


The celebration bothered me almost as much as the passing of the bill. I went from cautiously optimistic in the morning to stunned and sickened in the afternoon.
 

smirkymonkey

(63,221 posts)
3. As one with a preexisting condition, I hope every GOPr who voted for Trumpcare get a long-term
Sun May 7, 2017, 08:11 AM
May 2017

condition, loses their insurance, and die.” I'm with you Kurt. I do not think that is too cruel to wish on them.

The fact that these bastards passed this and can FUCKING celebrate it makes me sick to no end. They all deserve to burn in hell and so does everyone who agrees with them.

iluvtennis

(19,850 posts)
39. I too have pre-existing condition and can't believe how CRUEL GOP'ers are - have they not ever had..
Sun May 7, 2017, 03:52 PM
May 2017

..a family member or friend with an illness or they themselves been ill or are they all perfect. It so sickens me that they say ppl are sick because they didn't take care of their bodies...what horse shit. Stuff happens physiologically in some of our bodies, you can't control that. What a bunch of a-holes the GOP'ers are. Payback will be a b*tch for them

 

smirkymonkey

(63,221 posts)
44. I hope they all burn in hell for this.
Sun May 7, 2017, 04:31 PM
May 2017

The cruelty of this plan is beyond belief. They are evil to the core.

BlancheSplanchnik

(20,219 posts)
60. I've got pre-existing conditions too.
Sun May 7, 2017, 09:15 PM
May 2017

I also wish painful, chronic, life threatening disease on all of the Greedy Oligarch Pukes and their grunting greasy fans. And on the media whores that shovel the propaganda.

Keith Eichenwald's article made me so furious and sickened for his story, I can hardly stand it. I can't stand that those grinning executioners are partying on, and we don't seem to be able to do anything to stop them!!!

Personally, I'm lucky. I have insurance through my job which I love. I've been there a lonnng time and I haven't gotten fired! (even during the many years when I was functioning pretty poorly due to untreated Clinical Depression and PTSD issues).

Ligyron

(7,627 posts)
4. That little celebration in the Rose Garden will cost them.
Sun May 7, 2017, 08:32 AM
May 2017

They handed us a bat to wack them with but good.

The commecials write themselves.

Dustlawyer

(10,495 posts)
5. +1!!! THIS
Sun May 7, 2017, 08:53 AM
May 2017

I have the same problem. I had a son with Cystic fibrosis. I had to sue the insurance company because they tried twice to cut off insurance to avoid paying. The laws protect insurance companies when they wrongfully deny someone and get sued. The worst is they have to pay your legal bills and the back medical bills per the policy.

Hillary Clinton was going to meet with us and hear our story, but gave up on her attempt just before we were to meet as it wasn't going to work.

Now my son is dead and I have small fiber sensory neuropathy. I have a neural stimulator in my back and will be having a pain pump implanted that will keep me from having to chase as many prescriptions as I do. I have had to stay at jobs I hated so much that they may me sick. I want to go in business for myself and cannot afford to get it started because of it.

We need to fight for a constitutional amendment that will allow us to have Publicly Funded Elections and get rid of the legal bribery, Super PACs, dark money, and the revolving door. Bills like this are pushed by Special Interests and most of the problems we have are because of this situation!

3catwoman3

(23,973 posts)
25. I am so sorry to hear about your son.
Sun May 7, 2017, 11:35 AM
May 2017

I hope you have people around you to give you hugs and emotional support.

renate

(13,776 posts)
28. I'm so sorry about your son
Sun May 7, 2017, 12:28 PM
May 2017

And so sorry that you're dealing with terrible grief as well as chronic pain. It must be so incredibly difficult.

Dustlawyer

(10,495 posts)
56. Thank you all for your kind words. It is an old scar that re-opens from
Sun May 7, 2017, 07:21 PM
May 2017

time to time. He passed in 1993. My nephew who was born a week after my son also had it. He is married with a baby. I wonder what could have happened had he lived. The whole saga of fighting the health insurance company, being uninsured during the pending lawsuit, the bankruptcy, the hospitalizations, is all a blurry nightmare now.

I told myself I would learn something from what happened and I came up with 1. never backing down - the insurance company settled; and 2. unless I lose another kid (all grown now), nothing could be as bad as what I had already survived. I don't sweat the small stuff.

calimary

(81,220 posts)
37. Raul Labrador. Remember that name.
Sun May 7, 2017, 02:58 PM
May 2017

He's the (EXPLETIVE) jerk who, at his recent Idaho town hall, actually declared out loud that no one's died because they didn't have health insurance.

Raul Labrador. R-Fat Fuck.

Let's make sure his political career dies without health insurance next year.

C'mon, Idaho. You can do much better than him. You deserve much better than him.

On edit, just so you have it, and the accurate quote -

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2017/05/07/rep_raul_labrador_nobody_dies_because_they_don_t_have_access_to_health_care.html

calimary

(81,220 posts)
57. Also, this: PROOF that you DIE if you can't afford health care.
Sun May 7, 2017, 07:32 PM
May 2017

Last edited Sun May 7, 2017, 08:23 PM - Edit history (1)

Texas has highest maternal mortality rate in developed world, study finds
As the Republican-led state legislature has slashed funding to reproductive healthcare clinics, the maternal mortality rate doubled over just a two-year period

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/aug/20/texas-maternal-mortality-rate-health-clinics-funding

The Texas Observer also reported on this (just in case anybody wants to dismiss this as "fake news" because it came from the freakin' UK):

https://www.texasobserver.org/texas-maternal-mortality-rate-tops-developed-country-lawmakers/

paleotn

(17,911 posts)
7. I'm with Kurt. My feelings exactly....
Sun May 7, 2017, 09:01 AM
May 2017

Karma is a stone cold bitch sometimes, and they're going to feel her wrath.

Scarsdale

(9,426 posts)
8. Their own insrance
Sun May 7, 2017, 09:13 AM
May 2017

contains waivers, protecting their coverage in just about any circumstance. Taxpayers should demand that the "representatives" have the same coverage as they are pushing onto others, and pay for it themselves. Time to re-examine their generous retirement plans, too. They line their pockets with lobbyists money, and sell their votes, end up millionaires, and STILL get a taxpayer funded pension. How many jobs these days actually have guaranteed pensions?

PatSeg

(47,399 posts)
9. Eichenwald describes
Sun May 7, 2017, 09:18 AM
May 2017

Last edited Sun May 7, 2017, 11:13 AM - Edit history (1)

a major downside of our healthcare system, employer based health insurance. How many people take jobs just to get needed health insurance, often for very low pay? I know many people who have, as well as myself. I have also been seriously ill between insurance policies when I changed jobs, racking up medical bills that completely altered my life.

Such stories are not rare, they just aren't talked about very much until now.

yardwork

(61,588 posts)
19. I've always thought that this was a feature liked by the big companies.
Sun May 7, 2017, 10:47 AM
May 2017

The situation limits competition and entrepreneurship. How many people might start their own companies with better ideas and products, if they didn't have to worry about insurance?

I've thought this for decades.

PatSeg

(47,399 posts)
23. That is an excellent point
Sun May 7, 2017, 11:20 AM
May 2017

Good benefits helped companies to keep employees from moving to other companies. I hadn't thought about people going out and starting their own competing companies. Now a lot of companies treat their employees as disposable and often want to replace existing workers for someone cheaper. Very few companies are trying to attract and keep people anymore.

I think we would see more innovation and new small businesses if health insurance was reasonable and government run.

PatSeg

(47,399 posts)
61. Years ago
Sun May 7, 2017, 10:09 PM
May 2017

my sister and her husband starting a very successful family business. Even the three teenage girls worked in the business, but in order to afford healthcare for the entire family, her husband had to go back to his full time job that was hardly a career.

Republicans are always talking about "small businesses", but essentially they are representing corporate America, not the innovators and entrepreneurs.

mwooldri

(10,303 posts)
63. He also describes something similar for our family: our backup plan for medical insurance.
Sun May 7, 2017, 11:36 PM
May 2017

Moving to the UK (probably Scotland). I'm British, my wife's American. Thus my two boys are British by descent and American by birth - dual citizens. We all have "pre-existing conditions".

My wife had to use the doctor once when in the UK in the early 2000's. The doctors' office was not used to seeing people who weren't covered on the NHS so I feel certain that they had to make up some cost because they had to charge her. Our total outlay was £25.00 (then around $35-$40). I was still on the doctors' list, so no charge for me.

PatSeg

(47,399 posts)
64. You must have been
Mon May 8, 2017, 09:28 AM
May 2017

in total shock - $35-$40 for a doctor's visit! Sadly everyone has "pre-existing conditions", it is called being human.

I can't believe how complicated and outrageously expensive healthcare in this country has gotten. I am old enough to remember when it was much simpler and for the most part affordable.

Honeycombe8

(37,648 posts)
11. I thought the new GOP House bill provides for pre-existing conditions, if you remain
Sun May 7, 2017, 09:47 AM
May 2017

continuously covered. It's written so that people can't opt out entirely, but then buy ins. when they get an illness.

No? Yes?

HelenWheels

(2,284 posts)
12. What happens if you loose your job?
Sun May 7, 2017, 10:06 AM
May 2017

There will be a gap in your insurance coverage leaving you open to losing your insurance.

Honeycombe8

(37,648 posts)
15. COBRA.
Sun May 7, 2017, 10:13 AM
May 2017

Continuous coverage thru Cobra, which is pricey. After that, you can buy a policy on the open market, even if it's a minimum policy (since you no longer have to buy maternity and inhpatient drug rehab and other coverages).

Not much different than under the ACA, where, if you don't buy an ACA policy, you have to pay a penalty based on income. Of course, if your income was between $12k and $45k for an individual, you could have gotten a subsidized plan on the exchange, under the ACA. If your income was outside that range for that year, you would have had to pay for the entire ACA policy on your own (mine is about $950 for a mid-range plan, but there is one lesser one that is $830 I think).

Ms. Toad

(34,062 posts)
20. Seriously?
Sun May 7, 2017, 10:54 AM
May 2017

You apparently don't have serious health issues, or are deluding yourself if you do.

Plans that cover the $60,000 in care my daughter needs will be entirely unaffordable- or just not offered, once the state opts out of offering essential health benefits, and forces her into a laughably underfunded high risk pool, that will likely have a waiting list to acquire (as many did the times the tried them in the past)

This is not a plan that is not much different than the ACA for anyone with chronic health issues. It is a hair better than Pre-ACA only in that everyone, not only those with employment-based insurance, will be entitled to purchase insurance - at whatever exorbitant rate they charge for a non-community rated plan.

Honeycombe8

(37,648 posts)
27. Cobra is just the plan your employer has.
Sun May 7, 2017, 12:16 PM
May 2017

If you've been working under that ins. plan so far, I would assume you've judged it to be adequate. When you leave, the law is that your employer's insurer must allow you to buy their plan at your own cost for a certain period of time (6 mos., I think). It's pricey, but it is the group plan that your employer provided, so should be pretty good.

That's what you do when you lose your job...you pay for Cobra long enough to buy a plan on the market. That's what I have done in the past.

This is what you would have to do under the ACA, too, because of the time needed to apply and be granted a subsidy to buy through the exchange outside of the enrollment period. IF you can provide the paperwork necessary to prove your income for that year will be within the range allowed for subsidy (last year's income won't apply, since you don't have that job anymore).

So under the ACA, you pay for your employer's plan under COBRA, until you can get something else in place or get another job. Whether you stay with your employer's plan or buy your own is determined by which costs less. Individual ACA policies are pretty pricey in certain areas, whereas your employer's plan was a negotiated rate so may cost less.

lostnfound

(16,173 posts)
29. Oh my god.
Sun May 7, 2017, 12:52 PM
May 2017

Open your eyes and your heart. The world is full of people with varying circumstances.
And varying abilities.

Ms. Toad

(34,062 posts)
34. I had to calm myself down quite a bit
Sun May 7, 2017, 01:43 PM
May 2017

to reply with what I hope I limited a slightly snarky reply. But my first reaction was to shout obscenities.

Ms. Toad

(34,062 posts)
32. Please don't try to school me on the state of access to health care
Sun May 7, 2017, 01:28 PM
May 2017

I know exactly what my rights are, and exactly what the reality of attempting to exercise those rights are because I have been living with the exhorbitant chronic health care needs of my daughter for 20+ years.

Here is the cold hard economic reality of life post ACHA.

My daughter's income is $13,000/year. Her health care needs are $60,000/year - until she needs a liver transplant. Then they shoot to $.5 million and $100,000/year thereafter.

Her COBRA plan would cost $1000 - $1500 per month. If she needs COBRA, it is because she no longer has her job and she will have no income to pay for the plan. Subsidies under the AHCA are (1) end of year and (2) not based on income. So she has to pay the premium for the remainder of the year - and won't be fully covered because the age-based per person subsidy assumes she will be eligible for a cheap plan because she is young and doesn't need much care.

Age-based premiums vanish under the AHCA because the AHCA permits states (which will bear the brunt of subsidizing exhorbitant needs for people who cannot afford insurance) to opt out of pre-existing condition coverage, essential health benefits, and community ratings. That means that her premiums will skyrocket becasue they will be based on her health, and her need to have insurance that covers both her prescription needs (about half of her annual cost), and her cancer screening costs (the other half), and hospitalization in case this is the year she needs a transplant.

At the same time the AHCA permitted states to abolished community rated premiums, and instead make them based on state of health, it pretty expressly tied the subsidies to proxies for health (age) that do not match well with young people wilth chronic individuals. So her premiums will skyrocket because she is unhealthy, and her subsidy will plummet becasue she is presumed, based on age, to be healthy.

The last pooled risk plan in our state had - (1) not enough seats so there was a waiting period and (2) a premium that is at least double her annual income and several times any subsidy she will be eligible for - assuming she can afford to front the money for the premiums until the end of the year when she gets a tax credit to reimburse her.

Oh yea. Lifetime caps - they're back. She'll blow through that the year she needs a liver transplant, if not before.

And your nice flowery story assumes you can find another job that will give you enough money to pay the premiums. My daughter's liver condition means that she is unable to work full time and, at nearly 27, has not yet been able to finish college (despite being a high school valedictorian). She was recently fired because she had a panic attack at work and needed to leave to talk herself down (her diagnosed anxiety and depression disorder not unsurprisingly accompanied being told at 18 that you have 10 years to death or transplant). Fortunately, she was able to get her job back as an accommodation. But because that happened after the election, and we knew what was coming, we were immediately plunged back into pre ACA desperation mode - especially since at age 26 she is no longer eligible just to be put back on my plan, and we have virtually no options.

So yes, if you have a nice, pretty, medically uncomplicated life, are eminently employable, and have enough income or savings to pay the premiums until tax time - and aren't priced out of a plan the subsidies cover (or you have parents who will sacrifice their retirement savings and work into their 70s to ensure they have enough income to pay for your premiums and care), it's just like the ACA.

For the rest of us, it means a return to the terror-filled pre ACA days described so clearly by Kurt Eichenwald.

Like Kurt Eichenwald, I stayed at a job that made me miserable for nearly a decade because it provided insurance for my daughter. To save my sanity, I took a 60% pay cut 4 years ago - after finding a job that would cover both my daughter and same-gender spouse on its insurance plan. On top of a 60% pay cut, I added $9,000 per year in cost for medical care because the plan was not as comprehensive. My spouse has been unemployed (and unemployable) for more than a dozen years. So even though I'm working 80-100 hours a week, I'm trapped at the new job because my spouse needs insurance - and we have to have income in the event our daughter loses her job, isn't eligible for expanded Medicaid because it exists only at the whim of the state government, and we have to pay insurance premiums and out of pocket costs for her medical care. (I love my job - but I would sure love a lot less of it - but rocking the boat risks losing what I have.)

So no, it's not just like the ACA only a little different.

It is just like before the ACA only a little different. The difference from pre-ACA is, essentially, the HIPAA guarantees of access to insurance are extended even to people whose insurance doesn't come though work, and there is a smal subsidy to pay the premium (wholly inadequate for anyone with serious health issues), assuming you can affort to pay the premimus out in advance and wait until the end of the year for reimbursement.

Grins

(7,212 posts)
35. You have no idea what you're talking about
Sun May 7, 2017, 02:31 PM
May 2017
"This is what you would have to do under the ACA, too..."

And what happened to the ACA last Thursday....?

Yes, you get COBRA coverage based on your past employer's plan, but that is a whopper of a cost that gives you a few months negotiating room to find something more permanent - and far more expensive. Have a condition? Good effing luck.

A friend works at a small company in Pennsylvania (about 50-70 employees). One of the company employees had some health issue that was going to cost the insurer quite a lot of money - every year. During the renegotiation for the renewal of the insurance coverage, the insurer told the company they would continue coverage, but - because of that one employee - at a HUGE increase in premiums. The company, being small, was faced with either paying that higher premium, or boosting the amount of contribution all the other employees make to the plan via payroll deductions to cover the difference, or - get rid of that one employee.

They let that employee go! And good luck trying to find another job because the reason why she was let go also made her a pariah to other employers.

Honeycombe8

(37,648 posts)
41. I know, I know. The question was what can he do so that he has continuous coverage.
Sun May 7, 2017, 04:21 PM
May 2017

I'm just pointing out...the same thing he would do before, both with the ACA and before that.

It sucks losing your job. Insurance is one of the big problems with it.

I've been through the losing the job thing. It's the same for everyone...except when you're single, like me and the OP, there is no one else with a second income to help out.

Ms. Toad

(34,062 posts)
43. If the employee can document that as the reason she was let go,
Sun May 7, 2017, 04:31 PM
May 2017

that's a heck of a lawsuit!

(Not arguing about the economics - my much smaller company faced the same thing because of my daughter ($60,000/year in costs), and my spouse (same gender - and a the time our existing insurer folded no one insured same gender couples in the under 50 employee market), but terminating someone because of expensive health insurance would almost certainly be a violation of the ADA.

Honeycombe8

(37,648 posts)
49. Yes, it is a whopper of a cost.
Sun May 7, 2017, 04:49 PM
May 2017

That was the way it was in 2012, when I had to buy my plan through Cobra in 2012, until I could get another policy.

I then bought a United HealthCare short term policy for the second month. It was limited in coverage, but cost less than the Cobra, and it was just a protection against serious injury or illness until I could get a job with ins. benefits.

Your friend...that sucks. But it has been that way for many years. My firm had several layoffs. Always in the layoffs were the sick people. Those with cancer, broken hips, etc. It kept the insurance costs down. That has nothing to do with my post, though.

Why are you angry at ME? I didn't set the ins. prices. I just pointed out one process he could do to get insurance coverage after losing his job. It's just what I and others have had to do: Pay for Cobra right away, then shop for an interim policy, until you get a new job with ins. benefits. I'm just stating one thing he could do. It sucks, and it's expensive. Both now and back in 2012, and I suspect in the future.

I read, though, that a person can go two mos. w/o insurance, and still be considered as having continuous coverage. The person in the story would not want to do that, though, because he has a serious condition.

It was a shocker when I lost employer provided insurance and was thrown into the world of individual plans. It's not a good world to be in.

Unless prices go down a lot, I will not be able to have ins. at all next year, looks like. Depends on what they pass, how bad it'll be. If I'm lucky, maybe I'll be able to buy some sort of limited coverage.

Honeycombe8

(37,648 posts)
42. See my prior post. Why are you angry at me for what happens when you lose your job?
Sun May 7, 2017, 04:31 PM
May 2017

This is the way it is. After the GOP bill, during the ACA, and before the ACA.

That is, in fact, what the person has to do to maintain continuous coverage.

You buy Cobra for at least one month right away, until you can find something else. Yes, it's expensive. It is the same plan your employer paid for for you before, so no change there. At least you can get it, and it was a negotiated group plan (unlike the individual plan market, which is more expensive, since it's not a negotiated price).

When I had to buy Cobra in 2012, it was over $600 a month. I paid for it for one month, until I could get a United Healthcare plan for the next month. I bought a somewhat limited coverage short term plan for $350-$400/month, I think. It was guaranteed for 6 months, but you renew it monthly. If you make high claims, though, the ins. co. would probably cancel it. But it was some sort of protection against a serious injury or illness until I could get permanent ins.

My current ACA policy is about $950, but I get a subsidy. I couldn't pay for it without a subsidy.

So I know all about the cost of insurance from personal experience.

The whole point of whoever posed the question, was how he could maintain continuous coverage, so he wouldn't be charged more because he has a pre-existing condition. It's not MY fault it's expensive, so why the anger at me, I don't know. If I had my way, we'd have single payer or cheap insurance. But that's what he could do...now, in 2016, and in 2012.

Ms. Toad

(34,062 posts)
46. You might want to check the tone of your post.
Sun May 7, 2017, 04:44 PM
May 2017

I think I managed a relatively calm and reasoned response, but my first reaction was to yell obscenities that someone on DU was calmly (and it certainly felt condescendingly) asserting that the AHCA is not much different from the ACA. My second was to check your post count (even though I hate using that as a troll meter). After perhaps a half hour, I was calm enough to write a rational response.

Today is not the day (week, or probably even month) to suggest in any way, shape, or form, that the AHCA is not much different from the ACA. Too many of us are where Eichenwald was when he fired off that ill-advised tweet - reacting out of pain and fear that echoes decades of pre-ACA living on the edge before community ratings, before bans on denial of insurance for pre-existing conditions, before income-based subsidies - all things that are either removed or left up to the same states that refused to implement fully funded Medicaid expansion.

Honeycombe8

(37,648 posts)
51. There's nothing wrong with my tone. You, OTOH, have an angry tone.
Sun May 7, 2017, 05:00 PM
May 2017

I'm just being matter of fact. The question was: how can he get pre-existing condition covered under that GOP plan, which requires continuous coverage? Answer: He must buy it...Cobra initially, then search for his own individual plan and buy that to hold him over until he gets another job with ins. coverage.

In THIS respect, the PROCEDURE is the same, no matter what insurance system you are operating under. It sucks, it's expensive, and there's no way out.

You have to buy insurance in the interim, until you get another job with insurance. It was that way in 2012, when I had to do it. It was that way in 2013, when I had to do it to hold me over until the ACA took effect in January 2014.

I buy insurance myself on the individual market. I am all too familiar with the cost.

The AHCA, the ACA, the ins. market before the ACA all have things in common, because they are all insurance systems. Particularly regarding procedure and what individuals have to do to maintain continuous coverage. I'm pretty familiar with the rules of the ACA individual market, since I participate in that, as well as before the ACA, since I participated in that. I also pointed out that he would have another option under the ACA, which is to apply for a subsidy thru the exchange, if his projected income for that year falls within a certain range ($12k to about $45k or $46k). But I've been through that, and that takes time, if you're not already approved thru the exchange. So you'd have to buy other ins. while you try to get a subsidy.

This is just a factual thing. I am not arguing for or against anything in these particular posts. Obviously, single payer would be the way to go, so no one has to worry about continuous coverage or pre-existing condition. But that's not what my post is about.

calimary

(81,220 posts)
50. Oh God, COBRA.
Sun May 7, 2017, 04:53 PM
May 2017

We had to go on that after my maternity leave coverage ran out, when I was at the AP.

AP doesn't pay it's people THAT much. We used to say it was like being in the Army. You don't get rich, but you'll never go hungry. "Three square a day." So when my coverage ended, the only way to get health insurance was to buy in on a Cobra policy - for about 800 a month. That was in 1989. That was approximately what I took home, each paycheck, after all the deductibles. We barely made it, and only because we had to hit up our parents for help.

Honeycombe8

(37,648 posts)
52. Wow. That's a lot. Mine was $600 in 2012. United Healthcare.
Sun May 7, 2017, 05:09 PM
May 2017

I wonder why yours was so much? Was it family coverage? Back in 1989 the ins cos. didn't even cover a lot of stuff, like birth control or even pregnancy I think. My policy was just for me. It was good (for 2012), but sheesh, that was expensive.

I paid for it one month, but I was able to get a limited coverage short term plan for the next month, until I got another job with insurance. Thank goodness. That short term plan carrier would have canceled my policy, I'm sure, if I'd turned in a high claim. At that point, I was just protecting myself against one serious injury or illness. It didn't cover many prescriptions, if any, either. It cost me $350-400/mo., I think.

My next job's insurance coverage was lousy, but at least it was mainly free. Phew.

I had to take the money for the ins. policies out of my savings.

yardwork

(61,588 posts)
59. One of my kids just aged off my insurance. The difference is huge.
Sun May 7, 2017, 09:07 PM
May 2017

COBRA would have cost him $600 a month, and that didn't count dental. Obamacare will cost him $100 a month.

Phoenix61

(17,003 posts)
14. Yes and no
Sun May 7, 2017, 10:10 AM
May 2017

States can opt out of requiring insurance to cover pre-existing conditions if they create a high-risk pool. If you are not continuously covered your rates for the following year will be 30% higher. It also increased how much more they can charge older people from 3 times as much to 5 times as much as a younger person. It significantly cuts Medicaid and removes Planned Parenthood as an allowed provider. So basically, sick and/or old and/or poor people are on their own.

Ms. Toad

(34,062 posts)
17. And when your state opts out of essential health benefits
Sun May 7, 2017, 10:40 AM
May 2017

And the community rating, and you lose your current plan because you change jobs, your provider drops out of the. Market, or drops the EHB you need to live, the only plan that covers the your very expensive care may well be one that costs more than your annual income.

Pre-ACA, the only plan that my daughter​ could buy cost $15000 per year. Her current income is $13000 per year.

There will be different problems under this bill than under the ACA , but only different in specific source, not nature. Kurt's article is emotionally identical to one I have been writing in my head since the day this bill passed​. Having lived his experience with my daughter, I know the consequences of this bill, that permits states to opt out of essential health benefits and the community rating for people with pre-existing conditions.


,

lark

(23,092 posts)
24. You are lucky if you can work until 72.
Sun May 7, 2017, 11:22 AM
May 2017

My co. is upgrading their billing system and require certification for this. I barely made it through the first certification, studying and working on the "build project" until 11 at night, 6 days a week and that was 7 years ago. In the meantime i have developed due to a car accident, 4 partially herniated discs with bad sciatic pain. I just can't sit for really long periods anymore or I can't move due to the pain so really can't physically do this. I'm 65 and have always carried the family's insurance. My husband has a chronic condition too and has been in the hospital for two weeks in the past 5 years. He manages an auto repair shop and there are no benefits at all. Such a crying shame that my Medicare won't cover him and he's 8 years younger than me so not eligible for quite some time. He's looking for a different job, but can't find one with benefits that pays even half of what he now makes. It's not easy finding a good full time job at age 57.

If this doesn't wake up Americans to the utter callousness and cruelty of the repug party, nothing will. I hope karma hits every one of these bitches and they suffer like they are causing the rest of us to suffer. A good starting point would be losing their jobs.

Let's "make it so."

Ms. Toad

(34,062 posts)
33. I hear you.
Sun May 7, 2017, 01:39 PM
May 2017

I am lucky - I was just promoted and have been working to make myself invaluable. Our ultimate clients (my students) love the fact that I'm around 7 days a week, and in our last two certification reports two different certifing agencies expressly cited either me or the portion of our department I run, as critical to the success of the school, so there would be a major uprising if they tried to dump me.

So the only barriers are (1) keeping my mouth shut about things it is not essential for me to speak up about (they can terminate me with 6-months' notice - and despite my reputation among our clients and outside entities, there was significant push-back at promoting me) and (2) my own health - I was diagnosed with three significant health conditiosn last year (cancer being the most significant).

Fortunately, my wife is now eligible for medicare - and my daughter is not eligible for my plan, so I just have to worry about my own insurance and having enough spare money around to fill the gaps my daughter cannot fill.

(She has not worked since she was in her mid-50s, and has not been able to find another job in the dozen or so years since them. I was fortunate enough to find a job to move to at 57.)

Good luck! (And yes, I'll be working hard to ensure my representative loses his job - and doesn't gain the new one he is aiming for (governor), where he would immediately do whatever he could to terminate expanded Medicaid, remove community ratings, permit insurance companies to offer skimpy medical plans, etc.)

Merlot

(9,696 posts)
31. If you're paying for your own insurance and the premiums triple
Sun May 7, 2017, 01:00 PM
May 2017

and you can't afford it, you're going to end up without insurance.

The idea that people would option to go without insurance, especially if they have a pre-existing condition, just to save money and then buy insurance when they get sick is a repub taking point that holds no relationship to reality.

Also, if you don't have insurance, get sick, go to emergency and get a diagnosis of an illness, then you can't apply for insurance because it's now a pre-existing condition.

Emergency rooms don't treat long term illnesses, you can't go there for your weekly chemo.

annabanana

(52,791 posts)
38. No. As a matter of fact, this bill, as written,
Sun May 7, 2017, 03:51 PM
May 2017

would alow your employer to get your insurance from a State that has gotten a waiver allowing it to deny coverage for pre-existing conditions, or to opt out of specific requirements like medication or hospitalization, or pre natal care...

No one would be safe. Not even employed and insured people who live in blue states . .

mn9driver

(4,423 posts)
13. Yep. I am already doing a job search for when I hit retirement age.
Sun May 7, 2017, 10:07 AM
May 2017

I will be on Medicare-assuming it still exists, but I will need a job with family benefits to protect my wife and children who have chronic medical conditions.

With a little luck, I will make it to 72 with benefits, doing something or other.

Honeycombe8

(37,648 posts)
16. Good luck w/that. There are few jobs these days w/family coverage...
Sun May 7, 2017, 10:15 AM
May 2017

unless they charge an astronomical amount directly to the employee.

Hekate

(90,645 posts)
21. Very powerful
Sun May 7, 2017, 11:08 AM
May 2017

This I have in common with him:

After struggling for years with the presumed karma of wishing ill to others, I now also wish for those legislators that their nearest and dearest become uninsurable. It won't be themselves, you know, because they wrote the law to specifically take care of their own precious selves. But like the lawmakers with gay kids -- they only get it when their own hearts are torn out.

May their metaphorical hearts be ripped from their chests.

B Stieg

(2,410 posts)
22. I was in a "high risk pool"
Sun May 7, 2017, 11:13 AM
May 2017

called California "Major Risk" (MRMIP) (before Obamacare) where you had to provide proof of an insurance turndown, which was the easiest part of the process!

But the coverage for a single person (for Kaiser's lowest level of coverage) was nearly $400/month and that was back around "the turn of the century (2000 not 1900!)," aka "the good old days." After three years of regular monthly payments, you would supposedly be dumped into the regular, non pre-condition pool where you could buy health insurance with everyone else, but I became a doctoral student and so never got to that part of the program.

Even though my three, "legitimate" (MS, diabetes and bipolar depression) pre-conditions have been and are all currently under control, and the costs of the meds and equipment (blood testing meters and test strips really help) needed to maintain my health are fairly steady, Ryancare will mark me as a pariah, forcing me into the exact scenario recounted by Mr. Eichenwald (with his usual acumen) and Babylonsister (with her usual perceptiveness!), above.

I'm still trying to finish my dissertation, but that's all going to have to take a backseat (again) to being sure that I can find a teaching job with health insurance. Still, I don't really feel I have a right to complain as, at least, I don't have kids to worry about. I can't imagine how parents living with pre-conditions or living with kids with pre-conditions can contemplate a return to this kind of insane landscape under the AHCA without great fear and anger.

mopinko

(70,082 posts)
26. obamacare freed me from a dead marriage.
Sun May 7, 2017, 12:10 PM
May 2017

it wasnt an abusive or deeply awful marriage, but it was not happy and hadnt been for a long time. i was just sick of walking on eggshells, and days mired in wondering if i could get out.
i have several pre-exisitings. i couldnt get life insurance, even tho none are life threatening. i had good insurance, and couldnt imagine how i could get by w/o it.

as it happened, i was able to cobra that insurance up until 9 months before medicare. but not having that particular thumb on the scale made it possible to move on. i will always be grateful.

my sister and her husband, a hep c patient w a liver transplant, we able to start their own business. now they are terrified. my sister is looking for a job w insurance, and hoping to be able to juggle both.

real universal healthcare frees people in a WHOLE.LOT.OF.WAYS.
it is past time for us to join the rest of the developed world.

Moostache

(9,895 posts)
30. Put the tweet back up!!!
Sun May 7, 2017, 12:57 PM
May 2017

I want them ALL to die horribly, in agony, as their loved ones are forced to watch helplessly....or worse live on in guilt.

The GOP is a gang of amoral, hideous reptilian monsters. They deserve no decorum, no respite, no mercy.

FUCK THEM ALL.

Grins

(7,212 posts)
36. Wonderful article. Now check this one out at the Reich-wing Washington Times...
Sun May 7, 2017, 02:39 PM
May 2017
My husband would’ve died with Obamacare!

Of course, the near-death heart attack her husband suffered took place in April during the last year of the reign of A. Wol Drinksalot, four years before Obamacare kicked in, but that doesn't stop this Reich-wing hack. Be sure to read the comments.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/may/6/my-husband-wouldve-died-obamacare/

ThoughtCriminal

(14,047 posts)
53. Three things about "Pre-existing Conditions"
Sun May 7, 2017, 05:56 PM
May 2017

1:
Back when even group policies had a period (usually several months), where coverage of pre-existing conditions were excluded, the provision was heavily abused by insurance companies. If it was a large expense, the insurance companies would seize on any prior treatment as an excuse not to pay a claim. Break an arm when you were 13? See the doctor about a soar throat in 2009? Go to ER for chest pains a few years ago?

From experience I can tell you to be prepared for a long and frustrating battle. Even with every doctor who has examine you or a loved one in this situation disclaims the connection, the insurance company will drag it out for months or years while you face bankruptcy.

2:
Odds are, there are now millions of people who put off seeing a doctor for a condition due to lack of insurance. After the ACA passed, they finally were able to get a diagnosis and treatment. But now, what they also have is medical proof of a pre-existing condition.

3:
When you lose a job, the odds that you will be able to afford continuous coverage is pretty close to zero.

 

certainot

(9,090 posts)
55. this exemplifies the total stupidity of the left/dems ignoring rw radio
Sun May 7, 2017, 06:46 PM
May 2017
And if they are not forced to confront what they are doing, they will just keep smiling and high-fiving.


that's what 120-0 radio stations have been doing for 30 years 15 hrs a day - excusing racism, hate, sexism, ignorance, police brutality, and just plain old assholiness, so when those national examples should be getting roundly shamed, guys like limbaugh are there to make excuses for it and calling the shamers PC police when they are actually the biggest PC cops and sensors by threat, making excuses for pussy grabbers and russian stiooges and shooting unarmed black kids.

they have been allowed to totally short circuit the feedback a democracy relies on merely because the left ignores them

mwooldri

(10,303 posts)
62. Removing protections for Americans.
Sun May 7, 2017, 11:28 PM
May 2017

I read on another thread that we need to reframe the ACA (aka Obamacare) as providing protections for every American. The GOP (mostly) voted to do away with these protections.

This is what National Insurance provides in the rest of the civilized and even the developing world.

Forget terrorism. I want a Congress that can protect me from more mundane things like the flu, or some other illness. Or even an accident. Congress needs to protect Americans. Not strip it away.

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