General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsWill Tesla Succeed?
Forget what we think about Elon Musk and his history. No brand new American car manufacturer has started from scratch and succeeded in at least 75 years, maybe more.. (American Motors was a combination of a couple of other companies and did not start from scratch... Nash, Rambler, and Hudson were already established brands) Do you think this company will succeed and stay in business?..I don't know..Just asking..
snooper2
(30,151 posts)Stuart G
(38,414 posts)But I don't know much about that aspect of cars. Are Dodge Demons faster? I do not know.. What car is fastest? I don't know that either....
NightWatcher
(39,343 posts)That being said, I'd love to test a Demon out.
snooper2
(30,151 posts)1600HP MK3 Supra Street Pulls - "The Great White"
longship
(40,416 posts)I buy a car that lasts more than a quarter mile. Mine is 22 years old and has over 200,000 miles on the odometer.
BTW, it's a four cylinder Volvo, one of the most reliable cars ever made. Sadly, no longer available.
If I still lived in SoCal, I might go for a Tesla, if I could afford one. Here in rural west Michigan, I wouldn't mind a Prius, although the hybrid tech wouldn't buy me much here in this rural environment with long winters where the Prius's advantages diminish. Still, reliability is a good reason and it is a very good car with a rather stellar reliability record.
Since I am on SS, I will continue to milk my old Volvo.
snooper2
(30,151 posts)I'm driving a 120k mile Grand Prix with the bullet proof 3.8L right now since hail totaled my truck and wife got new car first
FYI- This is THE most reliable vehicle ever made...
22RE engine is bulletproof
longship
(40,416 posts)Who needs more than four cylinders?
You do know that you won't get there any faster than I will, don't you?
This isn't Formula One, you know! Or -- horrors! -- NASCAR. Or, the horror of all horrors of Motorsport, the idiocy of drag racing!
Note that none of those sports are legal on public roadways.
My best to you. Enjoy your fast driving. Just do so safely under controlled conditions.
Upon a visit to San Francisco once I saw a Porshe 911 flipped over on the guardrail between the northbound and southbound interstate. What kind of stupid person drives like that? What kind of stupid person thinks that speed is what driving is about? That more horsepower is better?
I prefer safe driving. No need for any more horsepower than is necessary. I used to own a diesel Rabbit. It had 28 HP. That was enough for me to drive halfway across the country and back every year for quite a few years. I got close to 60 MPG on that vehicle. And I could keep up with interstate speed limits. What more does one want?
Calculating
(2,955 posts)It's fine if you're not one of them, but don't expect everyone else to feel the same.
EX500rider
(10,835 posts)People who tow large boats or RV's?
People who like to get somewhere in a hurry?
People who enjoy high performance vehicles?
"You do know that you won't get there any faster than I will, don't you?"
Unlikely, if I am taking off faster then you and maintaining a higher avg speed (9-15mph over the speed limit let's say)
I most certainly will get somewhere faster then you, especially the longer the drive.
Say St Pete, Fla to Wash DC, (929m) at 70 mph speed limit aprox 13.5hrs hrs (not including stops-traffic-etc)...do same trip at 85mph, under 11 hrs....so about 3 hours faster....so when I arrive, you'll still be 210 miles away, somewhere in North Carolina.
caraher
(6,278 posts)Yes, more power is sometimes necessary and important, as in hauling heavy loads or towing.
But the example about St. Pete to DC wrongly supposes that the difference in the drives is the power of the vehicle, when in fact the chief distinction is the willingness to exceed the legal speed limit for extended periods of time. Put longship in a muscle car and you in a Prius and you'll get the same result for that long drive!
TheBlackAdder
(28,182 posts).
Hopefully, they've fixed the spun mains in the Hemi that will be going into those things.
It's a quick car, passing everything but the pumps and a P-90D.
.
snooper2
(30,151 posts)0-30 in one second
0-60 in two point three seconds
quarter mile 9.65 seconds at 140MPH
TheBlackAdder
(28,182 posts).
I think someone from Guinness is missing that little factoid, one I grew up watching as a kid. Oh, why don't they show many photos of them pulling wheelies, because the cars came equiped with wheelie bars as standard equipment.
http://www.streetmusclemag.com/features/car-features/muscle-cars-you-should-know-1968-dodge-hemi-dart-super-stock/
Also, Tesla Racing has the P100D down to 0-60 in two seconds flat by removing the frunk.
Here's the Demon link.
http://www.streetmusclemag.com/news/first-look-2018-dodge-challenger-srt-demon-pulls-the-wheels/
.
JoeStuckInOH
(544 posts)A) Both the Dart and Cuda super stocks were sent out to Hurst for all the good bits to be built/added.
B) After the cars left Hurst, they were NOT street legal.
I believe Dodge's claim is that the new Demons are the first street-legal production car that can do a wheelie. The rear "drag" tries that come on the Demon are actually street legal tires. And, off the dealership floor, the thing is 840HP and runs 1/4 miles in the high 9 second range. Considering the Dodge Demon is a street legal car (in factory configuration) that literally shits on the dart/cuda super stocks ... That's Remarkable.
A number of car manufacturer's have cars sent out to performance shops for specialty models. I'm unaware if Dodge is outsourcing the Demon. And even if street legal, I'm not sure you can consider any of the Roush, Buschur, Hurst, Lingenfelter, Saleen... or any other botique after-manufactured cars to be "Production".
Another thing to consider... the new Demons are automatic-only transmission. Meaning most anyone can drive one VERY fast with little-to-no experience.
TheBlackAdder
(28,182 posts).
Also, worth noting is that the newer automatics shift faster than humanly possible.
Another perk is that there won't be as many blown transmissions from people misshifting or the loss of control when people try to concentrate on shifting when accellerating to Warp Factor 2.
.
Johonny
(20,829 posts)the idea it will be a battery, energy storage, solar power etc... company is what the stock price is all about. Musk has buttered up the new administration, but Trump's energy policy will make it harder for Tesla to survive until alternative power is the only option...
Stuart G
(38,414 posts)I wish I knew more about this ....
Alex4Martinez
(2,193 posts)They've already transformed the industry-- their first model, the roadster, was the first modern successful fully electric car. Toyota and GM deliberately undersold their EVs but Tesla proved the concept and paved the way.
Credit is due to GM for the Volt, I own one, and Obama too (thanks Obama!), but Tesla made it happen and only 10 years ago!
Try to watch "Revenge of the Electric Car".
Now that Musk has created a world where there are literally dozens of makers of EVs and battery technology is only getting better and better and cheaper, expect $18,000 EVs, without a subsidy, very soon. I can promise you that but won't detail it here.
And on to more great things, Musk is making the concept of home energy storage a reality.
The Powerwall home energy storage system is a game changer.
Everybody will soon be paying different rates for their power depending on time of use or time of day (TOU or TOD) and with a powerwall you can charge up at night when rates are low and uses your cheap power during peak hours.
It's brilliant and it's green to help utility companies use greener sources.
Ask me anything about energy. It's what I do and I just completed four post-grad courses at Stanford on energy storage, smart grid, photovoltaics, and energy and behavior.
Cheers!
HughBeaumont
(24,461 posts)Their other more efficient models remain rich man's toys.
So unless their prices come down, the jury's still out . . .
DrDan
(20,411 posts)snooper2
(30,151 posts)they want 35K for a fucking Kia Optima LOL
$34,980
MSRP $37,480
Price based on
$2500 Cash Back
View details and other offers
Mileage 10
Body Style Sedan
Drive Type 2 wheel drive - front
Engine 4 Cylinder Turbo
Transmission 6 Speed Shiftable Automatic
Fuel Gasoline
MPG 22 City / 31 Highway
Stock # 170791
VIN 5XXGV4L27HG170791
ATC Car ID AT-1B2AC85B
HughBeaumont
(24,461 posts)MSRP was 19,900. Thanks to a good down payment and GM discounts, though . . .
I probably COULD swing $35,000 if I made twice as much as I make now, had a little more in retirement savings and LTV, but not when I can pay $14.9k.
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)Much as was said of both Apple and PC computers in 1982.
hunter
(38,309 posts)Look at Apple.
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)Owning one doesn't make us elitist. My iPhone has proven to be the most adaptable electronic device that I have ever owned.
hunter
(38,309 posts)It emulates my old eight and sixteen bit computers very well.
My desktop computer and flip phone were literally other people's e-waste and my laptop is a base model chromebook.
I'm a Linux guy.
Our local high schools give chromebooks to students who don't have better, and most of the teachers love their chromebooks. Education software is very good and kids now "hand in" most of their work electronically.
In my daily experiences iPhones are not ordinary. My level of cell phone "ordinary" is a typical no-contract "smart" phone that costs $40 with plans as low as $7 a month.
The State of California offers Lifeline rates for either landlines or cell phones. I don't qualify for that but many people do.
Those are the communities I live in; internet computer hackers and underpaid and underappreciated working class people.
I suppose I could afford something made by Apple but nothing they make has ever appealed to me.
If somebody ever gave me a Tesla or an iPhone I'd give it away as fast as I could to someone who'd appreciate it, possibly because I'm as prone to tinkering and violating warranties as I am to misplacing things, or hanging out in rougher places where things get stolen.
That's not to say I don't have any habits of affluence. My wife and I eat very well, our dogs eat very well, and we appreciate good coffee wine, and beer; not the overly expensive sorts, but not regularly Bud or Coors Light either.
I don't suppose there's anything wrong about some forms of elitism so long as you remember that under slightly different circumstances the homeless person on the corner or the working person with a forty dollar phone could be you, and act accordingly. And rich or poor, measuring one's own self worth by one's possessions is always a bad idea.
Yep, I recognize I can be an obnoxious Linux evangelist and pedantic moralist...
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)I have a windows based laptop, but use that only for tech based stuff related to my work, like CAD design for new equipment classes. I am currently working on a project that combines key features from several types of semiconductor equipment. But for general everyday use, you will only take my iPhone out of my cold, dead hands. 🤓
Honestly, I never want to own a luxury vehicle, the quality and utility of less expensive stuff is good enough. Never been an alcohol drinker, so I would not drink liquor of any price.
I am ok with you preaching about Linux based systems, people are best when they use tech tools that they are comfortable with.
DrDan
(20,411 posts)for success
Calculating
(2,955 posts)Right now they're losing thousands on every car which goes out the door. More sales only means more losses. At some point they will NEED to start making profit or their company is gonna go down in flames. On their last earnings report they had DOUBLE the expected losses, and still their stock goes up. Just seems like a classic case of 'irrational exuberance' to me. People are investing in the company not because of sound financials and profits, but because they want to see their dream come true. Personally I believe this story will end in countless broken dreams and financial ruin for many.
Massacure
(7,517 posts)From their 8-k SEC report filed on May 3, in the first three months of this year they took in $2,035,060,000 selling vehicles but spent $1,496,649,000 to produce them. Throw in their other lines of business, and their gross profit was $667,946,000.
Tesla's issue is that their other operating expenses of $925,495,000 exceed their gross profit. Of those expenses, $322,040,000 are related to research and development. Presumably most of that R&D is dedicated to ramping up production and development of their new Model 3. A lot of people are betting Tesla will profitably produce those Model 3's before they run out of cash, but that is certainly not guaranteed.
A HERETIC I AM
(24,365 posts)Or Musk is spending the money on developing the P/U and Semi;
http://jalopnik.com/elon-musk-says-a-tesla-semi-and-tesla-pickup-are-actual-1794302568
I'm a shareholder, so I am probably a bit biased, but I think the guy is pretty smart and his firm has a LONG way to go.
Look for him to either build or buy and refurb a second assembly plant in the midwest or east in the next two years.
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)They are very different. More along the lines of a company like Honda, not that their diversification is similar.
Baclava
(12,047 posts)True Dough
(17,301 posts)Not saying they're going to eat Tesla's lunch, but this model impresses the hell out of me (don't ask me the price point, I'm not in the market anyway). Fun to watch though.
Voltaire2
(12,995 posts)they are about 10 years behind Tesla. Of course they can use Tesla components- in fact that they probably will - to get to market, which is part of the reason why Tesla may be in a unique position.
underpants
(182,739 posts)a kennedy
(29,644 posts)sorry for yelling........and the tesla is one good looking car.
Baclava
(12,047 posts)more electrics are coming out in the $30-40K range, like the Tesla Model 3
BMW i3
Mercedes-Benz B-class Electric Drive
Chevy Bolt EV
Nissan Leaf
Ford Focus Electric
and more
http://www.caranddriver.com/best-hybrid-electric-cars
-----------------
Bottom line on electrics, bigger batteries = greater range = more money
Want used?
Pre-owned Tesla Model S - cheapest still over $50,000
https://www.tesla.com/preowned
a kennedy
(29,644 posts)Baclava
(12,047 posts)I am looking into a hybrid right now - all electrics are still WAY too expensive for what you get.
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)I wouldnt underestimate Elon Musk.
Zorro
(15,737 posts)Watching the Falcon 9 first stage return to the pad was absolutely awe-inspiring.
I have no doubts on Tesla's future viability.
hunter
(38,309 posts)It really is amazing.
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)Quiet_Dem_Mom
(599 posts)Yea, I hope so. After state employees stopped getting increases and COLAs, forced to go on high-premium HMO or high-deductible health insurance, merit freezes, furloughs, etc. It's good to see that we had the funds to help a billionaire.
https://www.theverge.com/2016/2/8/10937076/tesla-gigafactory-battery-factory-nevada-tax-deal-elon-musk
Ditto for Faraday. And Switch. And for the soon-to-be Las Vegas Raiders.