Do Kids Really Need Milk with their Meal ?

[JI7]

the only foods i like to eat milk with is something like cookies which i can eat by putting it in the milk .

but wouldn't water or even flavored water be better for kids in schools ? and maybe yogurt as dessert or a snack to get the dairy requirement.

i thought of this over the debate on school meals and trump wanting to do away with the michelle obama's healthy foods. and sonny perdue saying he needed chocolate milk and wouldn't have gotten his nutrients without it .

[LeftInTX]

1. I always got chocolate milk at school

I never liked drinking plain white milk.
My mom forced it on me at home and it never quenched my thirst. I always wanted water with my meals, but she made me drink milk. She also used to make me drink milk when I was thirsty.

[Warpy]

5. I had one just like her

and good days were when she left the kitchen long enough for me to pour it down the sink. I don't care what it was flavored with, it gave me cramps and the runs and I learned to hate it.

I was lactose intolerant by the time I was five or six. Didn't matter, in the 50s we'd all die without the shit three times a day.

[True Dough]

2. I ate 45 tons of cereal each year as a kid

and that required 9,000 gallons of milk (all measures are rough estimates and likely exaggerated, but you get the point).

I still do eat plenty of cereal with 1% milk. My wife and I are childless, but if we did have a kid or two, I'd say, "Sit down and eat your Raisin Bran with that tasty milk!"

[brush]

76. At least you had the good sense to go to 1%

[leftstreet]

3. The only people who should be drinking milk are baby cows

[Hekate]

9. Depends on which tribe you come from, as some cultures have been based on dairy for centuries...

Many centuries. So I'm guessing most Irish, English, Danes, Norwegians, etc are lactose tolerant. Then there's the folks in the Indian subcontinent, and they also use dairy. Cattle are wealth in Botswana, so they must do something with the milk, but I have not studied it.

A lot of folks start out lactose tolerant as children, but outgrow it so to speak. My husband and his late mother are both lactose intolerant, but this came on in adulthood. That's common in those of Eastern European Jewish ancestry.

A century ago nutrition guidelines for American children addressed known causes of malnutrition. Many children had ricketts, which stunts growth and causes malformed bones, including bow legs. Whole milk, with its Vitamin D and calcium, prevents this. Farmers' children were not exempt from ricketts, because if their parents were poor they often skimmed the cream off all the milk, even that for the household, in order to sell butter and cream; skim milk has little or no Vitamin D as it is a fat soluble vitamin.

Liking milk in adulthood is a personal preference, and handy for vegetarians, but lactose intolerance is a known thing in adults, and nearly always linked to specific ancestry. It was less known in the US before our population became so much more diverse.

[pnwmom]

11. Yes! And it's a good way for those children to get enough calcium. n/t

[Warpy]

12. Vitamin D doesn't exist in milk. It's added during processing

They started doing that because kids in northern parts of the country weren't getting enough sunshine in the winter to make their own and children working for a living got no sunshine at all. Once they isolated it and started to add it to milk, ricketts pretty much disappeared. Oh, there was also cod liver oil, which supplied ample A and D, but kids tended to rebel over taking it.

However, there is nothing written in stone that says a child's vitamin D and caclium have to come from the udder of a cow or the liver of a cod. Non dairy alternatives are quite likely a lot more healthful, supplying the nutrition while skipping all that saturated fat.

[womanofthehills]

79. However, 100% grass fed cows do have Vitamin D in their milk

along with B12, iodine, B2, phosphorus, calcium, panthethenic acid, biotin, selenium, protein, vit A and CLA (conjugated linoleic acid). You can now buy organic grass fed milk.

Also, chickens who forage outside in the sunshine have vitamin D in their eggs naturally.

[Spider Jerusalem]

16. It's somewhat variable among European populations

my father is lactose intolerant (his ancestry is English, Irish, Welsh, Scots and German), I'm not, my mother isn't (her ancestry is British Isles/German/French).

Here's a map of lactase persistence by population (not pictured on this map, but Native Americans are also lactose-intolerant):

[Hekate]

18. "Lactase persistence" and a lovely map, too. Thank you!

My acquisition of this information has been a bit random, but it stuck with me, and now I can add this as well.

[customerserviceguy]

80. That's an interesting map

And I notice that northern France seems to be more lactose tolerant than the rest of that country, that's where the majority of French-Canadians come from. As I was born in Quebec, it explains why I have no problem with dairy products of any kind.

Thanks for posting it!

[Jim Beard]

129. Bingo, you said it so much better than me. I agree 100% about the tribes. The sheep and goat herders

were milk and meat people. People in a more tropical area were more consumers of fruit and those on the plains of some rainfall were consumers of corn and wheat.

[bitterross]

33. You are Correct

I believe the four basic food groups have been devised and promoted by industry. Not necessarily backed by good science.

[athena]

35. I agree.

Drinking milk these days is all about supporting the factory-farming industry. It's amazing how thoroughly the majority of people have been brainwashed.

[womanofthehills]

83. It does not have to be - one brand of popular organic milk is a farmer owned cooperative

[athena]

95. "Organic" does not usually mean humane.

And "humane" does not usually mean humane when it's on a package containing an animal product.

When you drink cow's milk, you are drinking milk that was intended for the cow's offspring, the calf. What do you think happens to the calf? Do you really think that any company makes sure that the calf stays with its mother and gets enough milk? No, what happens to the calf is that it becomes veal. When you drink cow's milk, you are supporting the veal industry. There are no two ways around it.

Try Silk original soymilk. I find it much better than cow's milk. It actually works better in coffee and in cereal than cow's milk, and I have successfully used it in puddings.

[Mosby]

113. Some dairies are different

I get my milk from Danzeisen, they raise all calves on site. All bottles are reused through a deposit system. The milk is incredible, I usually drink the 2%.

As for milk replacements, I prefer almond milk, it has a nice nutty taste. I haven't tried other soymilks other than silk, I think they use way too much thickener whatever it is, I think carageenan.



http://www.danzeisendairy.com

[KPN]

101. Exactly!

Ooops! Meant this in response to the post one level up.

[KPN]

104. Definitely. Much of what we learned we should consume because

it's good for us, actually is not. The food industry has enculturated us. Our cultural beliefs about food are as ingrained as our belief that the world is round. The difference being, one (round earth) is right, the other is not.

LOOK AT AND STUDY VEGANISM if you are concerned about sustainability, fossil fuels/global warming, and leading a life-styler that maximizes personal health and well-being.

Disclaimer: I'm not Vegan, but my wife and I are getting there and enjoying not only the health and environmental benefits, but the flavors as well. It's not hard to prepare/cook great tasting vegan meals. Our big downfall thus far has been cheese.

[Mosby]

115. Vegans have high rates of nutritional deficiencies.

Truth is cutting out all dairy products makes it harder to eat a balanced diet.


http://m.ajcn.nutrition.org/content/89/5/1627S.full

If your vegan you should let your dr know so he/she can start testing you for nutritional deficiencies.

[Doremus]

131. Oh the drama, lol.

As long as vegans supplement B12 they have the same nutritional levels as anyone else.

Personally, after 5 years of veganism, my only deficiency was vitamin D which my doctor said most people after 50 need to supplement anyway.

[KPN]

135. Guess I didn't read it that way. But you may be right.

You are right in your response. My experience is most vegans are far more aware of dietary requirements and go out of their way to ensure they achieve them than virtually all people who don't have some other reason for being meticulous about their diet (and even some of them).

But the article is a pretty good one. On balance, it struck me as rating the vegan diet as a real positive provided any potential deficiencies (which occur in every diet, most in far greater breadth and significance) are attended to. Which vegans tend to do ... so YAY!

[KPN]

134. Yes, you and the article are right, for some daily mineral/vitamin values.

Omnivores also have high rates of nutritional deficiency as well as other dietary issues. On balance, per almost all of the research (certainly all legitimate research that I've seen), the vegan diet is a healthier diet.

I have discussed with my doctor -- your suggestion is a good one that everyone should follow -- discuss your diet with your doctor. Interestingly, my doctor's response when I told him I was mostly vegan was "Me too!" True story -- I had no idea.

The article is a good one. I've shared with some friends/family who are also considering/ working on/are vegan. Thanks for sharing. It's always good to make sure you are not overlooking any nutritional requirements. BTW, I have been taking B12 and Vit D supplements for quite some time now (pre-vegan actually). I also consume vegan products made from seaweed frequently, hemp-milk (which is high in calcium and tastes pretty damn good on cereal), cereals with essential minerals/vitamins daily, calcium fortified OJ, walnuts and flax as well as other stuff for Omega 3s.

Again, good article. Thanks.

[bitterross]

121. I don't think we have to go fully to any one end point or another.

I will take you advice and study the benefits of veganism. I have many friends here in Oregon who are vegetarian. I actually do not consume a lot of meat. It would be very difficult for me to cut eggs and cheese from my diet though. I just really like them

[KPN]

136. Cool. Me too -- cheese is my biggest downfall, but I also love

a fried egg sandwich, and occasionally, get something with meat when I eat out. I'm about 90-95% vegan I'd say. And I feel great since going this way. ... I'm also in Oregon. There's a huge vegan community in Portland (of course there is, right?) so Portland is a real mecca as far as vegan restaurants, restaurants with good vegan options, vegan food supplies/stores goes. I try to get up there every couple of months or so -- helps that 2 of my kids actually live in Portland.

If you are ever in Eugene, try PRI (Pizza Research Institute). They make some amazing vegan pizzas, but their veggie pizzas are to die for (real cheese)

I'm actually with you -- unless the animal rights concerns eventually get to me re: eggs and cheese, I'll probably never be 100% vegan.

[hunter]

45. Most of my ancestors were ranchers and dairy people, but I'm done with the milk lobby...

... and their mutant factory farm cows that get turned into cheap meat and meat-by-products at the end of their miserable "productive" lives.

It's bad for the planet, it bad for human health, and it's ethically indefensible.

Human children don't need to drink cow's milk, and it shouldn't be encouraged at school. (Soda pop and juices are similar horrors...)

I'll confess my own kids frequently had the typical milk, boxed cereal, and orange juice breakfast because it was easy, they could do it themselves, and it was socially accepted.

When I was a kid the only cereals my parents bought were bulk cornflakes and "old fashioned" cook a long time oatmeal. The milk was powdered, and if you mixed it up that morning it tasted of tap water chlorine. (It wasn't so bad if you mixed it the day before and let it rest in the refrigerator overnight, or fermented it into buttermilk.)

My grandparents, who'd experienced the Great Depression, believed that anything other than bacon and eggs and toast for breakfast (eggs fried in bacon fat) was an indication of poverty and deprivation. Eggs and toast was the next tier down, then beans on toast with a bit of bacon fat, and below that, oatmeal with raisins and milk.

As an adult it turns out I'm lactose intolerant. When I was in the hospital last year I was served milk with lunch, and it was the first time I'd had milk in a glass in decades. There were some spectacular consequences, reminiscent of colonoscopy prep. The worst thing about it is that I was under 24/7 observation and allowed very little privacy.

[mahatmakanejeeves]

47. "... bacon and eggs and toast for breakfast...."

Add a glass of orange juice, and it sounds like my breakfast when I was a young'un.

[LeftInTX]

117. My grandparents were Armenian Genocide survivors

As an indulgence here in the US, they would melt a bunch of butter on the stove and spend their evening dipping bread into it.

[hunter]

119. It's bread dipped in olive oil in our house.

Some of the California olive oils are very good; extraordinarily so with fresh home baked bread. (I use canola oil in the bread recipe itself 'cause were not wealthy.)

[LeftInTX]

120. Mine did it because store bought butter was a luxury...The bread was a conduit for the butter.

[hunter]

122. Luxury was a simple thing then.

Many have forgotten.

[Doreen]

78. Damn straight. Cows are people to.

[KPN]

105. Lol! I like that! Damn straight!

[KPN]

102. True. We don't need milk.

It does our bodies more harm than good -- and, on top of that, we pay for it.

[ciaobaby]

103. 100% Correct.

https://www.forksoverknives.com/milk-myth-why-you-dont-need-dairy-for-calcium/

"Like iron, magnesium, and copper, calcium is a mineral. It is found in the soil, where it is absorbed into the roots of plants. Animals get their calcium by consuming these calcium-rich plants. So even though we are all conditioned to believe that calcium comes from milk and dairy products, the real source of calcium richness is the earth. No wonder that a whole-food, plant-based diet has plenty of calcium."

[Doremus]

130. Yup, true indeed. nt

[Warpy]

4. Here in NM, many kids are lactose intolerant by their teens

so it's really crazy to keep trying to get them to drink milk through high school unless everybody enjoys the stench of gorilla farts and seeing mad dashes to the can between classes--and not to smoke.

Hospitals put milk on all the trays, too, it's automatic even if it says "lactose intolerant" on the diet card.

A hell of a lot of milk in this country gets thrown in the garbage because so many people just can't drink it.

So yes, they need to switch to a non dairy option and/or offer cultured products like yogurt or kefir or offer fruit and cheese as desserts.

[Buckeye_Democrat]

6. YES! I was lactose intolerant by high school, but I didn't know it.

It kept me from participating in after-school activities because I knew that I'd be super-gassy around that time!

I didn't know what was causing it. I assumed that I couldn't possibly be "lactose intolerant" because that implied to me a dangerous condition, like a peanut allergy. That was back in the days before the internet.

I was an excellent young athlete, especially in tennis since I'd played against my older brother (17 years older) for "fun" from the time I was a little kid. He was a good tennis player, and I reached the point that I was beating him sometimes.

The tennis coach saw me play in gym class and begged me to join the team, but I declined. I was too embarrassed to mention my farting issues to him or anyone else.

I finally made the connection between milk and flatulence after high school. No more lactose, no more gas.

[sarah FAILIN]

70. I laughed at this

Reminds me so much of what happened with us. My son would have terrible stomach pain as a little kid and I thought he was trying to get out of school or practice. I'd always tell him to have a glass of milk to settle his tummy I took him to the dr. many times with his tummy pain, but he didn't have any symptoms other than pain, so they were treating him for acid reflux.. I finally figured it out myself and he can now manage it. He can tell me which cheese sticks have no milk in them as a hidden talent. We joke about this all the time though, how he always drank a big glass of milk when he started hurting from his "reflux", but it never did help

[Buckeye_Democrat]

98. LOL. I know, it's like nobody even thought about that problem in the past.

I'd come home from school and finally let out the gas over a few hours, often in my bedroom. Mom would sometimes hear it and she'd yell in the distance, "Go to the restroom! You obviously need to poop!" Yet I didn't need to defecate at all. It was all gas. I just assumed that I was a "gassy person" or something. I certainly didn't want to be farting around my classmates like that. I'd already witnessed the mocking that happened when other students accidentally expelled gas in school.

[sarah FAILIN]

99. His doctors did CT scans and x rays...

Said they had never seen a gassier kid in their career, and it never occurred that was related to the pain
When I finally figured it out, I told them Dr. MOM handled it with no more meds for reflux.

[No Vested Interest]

7. Milk is more filling than water as a beverage, and (most) children need a certain

amount of fat for good health.

Likely 6-8 oz. of milk per meal is enough for school-age children; it can be taken with cereal in the a.m. Water is fine beyond that.
Milk can also have a calming effect on body and mind; as an older adult I take my night-time pills with ca 2 oz. of 2% milk.

[Warpy]

8. There are better ways to get it than saturated fat in dairy

After the age of 8 or so, calcium fortified non dairy drinks should be it.

[womanofthehills]

82. Cows who eat 100% fresh grass have high levels of CLA (conjugated linoleic acid)

There is milk and than there is milk. What the cows eat is a biggie in the makeup of their fat and milk.

CLA is recognized as having many health benefits for the immune and inflammatory systems.

I drink organic grass fed whole milk with no problem. My boyfriend is lactose intolerant so he drinks organic milk lactose free with no problem.

My morning breakfast is a smoothie with organic milk, 2 raw egg yokes (my own chickens so I know they are healthy), frozen strawberries and blueberries and some other nutrients all blended in my Vita-Mix. It's delicious.

[Warpy]

87. And butterfat.

It's saturated fat that non dairy alternatives don't have. Plus, the non dairy milk won't give kids the shits.

[kcr]

92. Fat isn't poison. It's processed foods and added sugar that are bad news n/t

[melman]

10. No

Milk is poison.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

38. Milk is not poison unless you're lactose intolerant.

And even then, I've never heard of someone being so violently allergic to milk that they can die if they have a small sip.

[womanofthehills]

84. Milk is not poison - milk is full of healthful nutrients

You need to buy grass fed organic milk from farmer co'ops.

[Binkie The Clown]

111. We all believe what we want to believe, and pretty much ignore any facts that disagree.

I guess that fact that milk casein promotes cancer growth is not important to you.

Back when I was a smoker, many years ago, I believed the tobacco industry funded "science" that said cigarettes were not harmful. I believed because I wanted to believe and the "experts" said I was right to believe.

The people telling you milk is good for you are dairy industry funded "scientists", bought and paid for to convince you that their product will not harm you. Believe it if you really want to believe it, just like smokers believed what they really wanted to believe. Whatever you do, ignore anyone who disagrees. Call them crackpots, if you like. Claim they are funded by the International Anti-Milk League. Do whatever you need to do to hear only what agrees with what you want to believe.

[Binkie The Clown]

13. Evolution engineered milk to put hundreds of pounds on baby calves.

According to population studies it might be one of the most toxic "foods" consumed by humans. All the sex hormones they inject into the cows leave dangerous levels in the milk. Most countries have banned those hormones, but not the good ol' U.S. of A where FDA is at the beck and call of the big money agribusinesses.

And BTW: Populations that drink the most milk have the weakest bones. But of course, since the FDA belongs to the meat and dairy industries, you'll never hear that from the government. And, BTW: the protein casein, found only in dairy products, is "rocket fuel for cancer" as demonstrated by one of the largest population studies of nutrition ever conducted; The China Study.

The question makes as much sense as "Do kids really need rat poison with their meal?"

[2naSalit]

27. +1

[Red Mountain]

52. Got any science?

It would be very helpful to provide some evidence for your claims because on the face of it they seem a little extreme.

[Binkie The Clown]

68. Start here

The China Study: Revised and Expanded Edition: The Most Comprehensive Study of Nutrition Ever Conducted and the Startling Implications for Diet, Weight Loss, and Long-Term Health Dec 27, 2016
by T. Colin Campbell and M.D. Thomas M. Campbell II

Editorial Reviews
Review

“These findings from the most comprehensive large study ever undertaken of the relationship between diet and the risk of developing disease are challenging much of American dietary dogma.”
—The New York Times

About the Author

For more than 40 years, T. Colin Campbell, PhD, has been at the forefront of nutrition research. His legacy, the China Study, is the most comprehensive study of health and nutrition ever conducted. Dr. Campbell is the Jacob Gould Schurman Professor Emeritus of Nutritional Biochemistry at Cornell University. He has received more than 70 grant years of peer-reviewed research funding and authored more than 300 research papers. The China Study was the culmination of a 20-year partnership of Cornell University, Oxford University and the Chinese Academy of Preventive Medicine.

A 1999 graduate of Cornell University and a board-certified family physician, Thomas M. Campbell II, MD, is the co-founder and clinical director of the University of Rochester Program for Nutrition in Medicine (URNutritionInMedicine.com).

[kcr]

90. Message deleted by DU the Administrators

[Binkie The Clown]

96. Where's your proof? Or are we to believe you just because you say so? n/t

[KPN]

108. Oh, just like human caused global warming?

Not saying that's your view, but your comment sounds a lot like what I hear from the HGW naysayers.

[KPN]

107. Excellent book!

The most comprehensive fact/science-based book on health and nutrition ever.

[WinkyDink]

54. So elderly people drink the most milk?

[Binkie The Clown]

69. Among elderly people who do drink the most milk, hip fracture rates are higher.

Clever snark does not always equate to truth or accuracy.

From the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition:

Abstract

Background: Short trials of calcium supplementation show that it reduces loss of bone density in postmenopausal women; longer observational studies do not generally find a lower risk of hip fracture with higher-calcium diets. Fewer studies have focused on vitamin D in preventing postmenopausal osteoporosis or fractures.

Objective: We assessed relations between postmenopausal hip fracture risk and calcium, vitamin D, and milk consumption.

Design: In an 18-y prospective analysis in 72 337 postmenopausal women, dietary intake and nutritional supplement use were assessed at baseline in 1980 and updated several times during follow-up. We identified 603 incident hip fractures resulting from low or moderate trauma. Relative risks (RRs) from proportional hazards models were controlled for other dietary and nondietary factors.

Results: Women consuming ≥ 12.5 μg vitamin D/d from food plus supplements had a 37% lower risk of hip fracture (RR = 0.63; 95% CI: 0.42, 0.94) than did women consuming < 3.5 μg/d. Total calcium intake was not associated with hip fracture risk (RR = 0.96; 95% CI: 0.68, 1.34 for ≥ 1200 compared with < 600 mg/d). Milk consumption was also not associated with a lower risk of hip fracture (P for trend = 0.21).

Conclusions: An adequate vitamin D intake is associated with a lower risk of osteoporotic hip fractures in postmenopausal women. Neither milk nor a high-calcium diet appears to reduce risk. Because women commonly consume less than the recommended intake of vitamin D, supplement use or dark fish consumption may be prudent.

Or for a broader audience: https://nutritionfacts.org/2017/01/31/why-is-milk-consumption-associated-with-more-bone-fractures/

[font size=6]Why Is Milk Consumption Associated with More Bone Fractures?[/font]

Written By Michael Greger M.D. FACLM on January 31st, 2017

Milk is touted to build strong bones, but a compilation of all the best studies found no association between milk consumption and hip fracture risk; so, drinking milk as an adult might not help bones, but what about in adolescence? Harvard researchers decided to put it to the test.

Studies have shown that greater milk consumption during childhood and adolescence contributes to peak bone mass, and is therefore expected to help avoid osteoporosis and bone fractures in later life. But that’s not what researchers have found (as you can see in my video Is Milk Good for Our Bones?). Milk consumption during teenage years was not associated with a lower risk of hip fracture, and if anything, milk consumption was associated with a borderline increase in fracture risk in men.

It appears that the extra boost in total body bone mineral density from getting extra calcium is lost within a few years, even if you keep the calcium supplementation up. This suggests a partial explanation for the long-standing enigma that hip fracture rates are highest in populations with the greatest milk consumption. This may be an explanation for why they’re not lower, but why would they be higher?

This enigma irked a Swedish research team, puzzled because studies again and again had shown a tendency of a higher risk of fracture with a higher intake of milk. Well, there is a rare birth defect called galactosemia, where babies are born without the enzymes needed to detoxify the galactose found in milk; so, they end up with elevated levels of galactose in their blood, which can cause bone loss even as kids. So maybe, the Swedish researchers figured, even in normal people that can detoxify the stuff, it might not be good for the bones to be drinking it every day.

(Emphasis mine)

With more at the link

[kcr]

91. Quack alert

Do not trust anything from this "doctor"

https://www.humanewatch.org/hsus_doc_exposed_as_schlock/

[Binkie The Clown]

97. Whatever. You go your way, I'll follow the data. n/t

[LanternWaste]

132. Or at least the correlation.

"I'll follow the data..."

Or at least the correlation lacking causation.


Yet I realize we tell ourselves that which assists us in sounding most clever to ourselves, regardless of accuracy.

[Binkie The Clown]

133. And we all tend to look only at the data that supports what we want to believe.

Myself included.

I think mainly this is because we grow tired of having unsettled issues in our life that need to be constantly re-evaluated and reconsidered.

What I believe, from studying the data, is that eating meat and dairy is harmful to health. What I know with certainty, from long historical precedents, is that a vegan diet will not harm my health. I conclude, therefore, for myself, that the matter is settled. I might be wrong on the harm caused by meat and dairy, but I might be right. If I choose to eat vegan then the worst case consequences if I'm wrong are that I've eaten a healthy vegan diet that does no harm to my health. If I choose to eat meat and dairy, and I'm right then the worst case consequences are serious damage to my health. (e.g., why do vegan populations have virtually NO high blood pressure or heart disease?)

I choose to err on the side of caution and eat only what I KNOW will not harm me, and avoid those things that I BELIEVE (right or wrong) might harm me. As far as I'm concerned, that's the prudent thing to do, especially given the amount of evidence against meat and dairy. (Discounting, of course, the studies funded by the meat and dairy industries because, hey, the tobacco industry told us cigarettes do no harm so it's no surprise the meat and dairy industries tell us the same about their products.)

(Caveat: Soft drinks and potato chips is a "vegan diet", but not the kind I'm talking about. I'm talking about a healthy diet, supplemented with vitamin B12 do to the fact that modern hygiene pretty much eliminated the natural non-animal sources of that vitamin. Traditional vegan cultures that get enough dirt in their diet don't have that problem.)

[womanofthehills]

85. Hello - you can CHOOSE milk without sex hormones -

You can buy milk from the Dollar Store with hormones or organic 100% grass fed milk from co-op farmers. Just like eggs - chickens running around in the sun grazing will have healthier eggs. Chickens eating glyphosate containing chicken pellets are bad for you. Before Trump shut down the FDA glyphosate testing program (a program that was just beginning) - eggs tested had high levels of glyphosate. So an argument eggs are bad or good, just like an argument cows milk is bad or good is MOOT. What are the animals eating, where are they living, is their feed tainted, are they being injected with antiobiotics are the questions to ask.

[Binkie The Clown]

89. Not my job to convince anybody of anything.

I followed the science and came to the conclusion, based on data alone, that ALL cow's milk is bad for humans. It promotes cancer and bone loss. So says the data. If you disagree, then don't argue with me, argue with the data. I'm convinced by the data. What you wish to believe, and why, is up to you. It's not my job to proselytize. Do your own research, just don't be mislead by the American Dairy Association. They have an axe to grind, so their paid scientists will conclude whatever they want them to conclude. Just like big tobacco and big oil. Their job is not to watch out for your health. Their job is to sell their product whether it's good or bad for people.

[KPN]

109. Don't let enculturation get in the way of truth.

[KPN]

106. +1! All of that is absolutely true according to the best science available.

Culturally, our beliefs about the food industry (or I should say non-belief in the facts) is remindful of the disbelief that exists today re: global warming causes. It's crazy!

[GulfCoast66]

123. That same evolution allowed my ancesters to exploit a new food source

If you are touting evolution then you should not disregard the fact that it also works on humans and I am fortunate that my ancestors evolved to be able to digest lactose as an adult.

Historically, that one genetic quirk provided a huge survival advantage to those who were lucky enough to get it. In a time when food was more often scarce than abundant, humans with that genetic quirk had a way to exploit animals for nutrition without killing them. I have read one book(Ecological Imperialism) that lays out a good argument that being able to consume lactose was an advantage for genetic groups that persisted up until the middle ages if not later.

Because of the luck of my ancestors I am able to consume dairy products and I do so regularly. However, I try to base my decisions on science not myth where possible and because of that I pretty much only consume dairy that has been fermented by bacteria which is undoubtable mainly what my ancestors consumed since keeping milk for even 8 hours unrefrigerated results in bacterial fermentation. I make homemade yogurt and kefir out of milk from pasture raised organic milk.

And some of the most healthy populations on earth base at least their breakfast if not other meals on fermented dairy products. Like the Icelanders, Nordic countries and many southern European cultures.

[Binkie The Clown]

126. Q: Does any adult animal consume the milk of another species as part of its natural diet?

Cow's milk is for baby cows. Adult cows don't drink cows milk, and adult humans shouldn't drink human milk, let alone the milk of a different species.

Physician's Committee for Responsible Medicine says: http://www.pcrm.org/health/cancer-resources/ask/ask-the-expert-dairy-products

Q: Do dairy products cause cancer? And if you don’t drink milk, how do you get all the calcium you need?

A: Recent scientific studies have suggested that dairy products may be linked to increased risk for prostate cancer, testicular cancer, and possibly for ovarian and breast cancers.

Prostate cancer has been linked to dairy products in several studies. In Harvard’s Physicians Health Study, including more than 20,000 male physicians, those who consumed more than two dairy servings daily had a 34% higher risk of developing prostate cancer than men who consumed little or no dairy products. Several other studies have shown much the same thing.

Several mechanisms have been proposed to explain this association. Dairy product consumption increases levels of insulin-like growth factor I (IGF-1) in the bloodstream. IGF-1 is a potent stimulus for cancer cell growth. High IGF-1 levels are linked to increased risk of prostate cancer and breast cancer.

Calcium may also play a role in prostate cancer. Although the body needs some calcium, a high calcium load results in a lowering of blood levels of activated vitamin D. In the case of prostate cancer, where vitamin D is thought to be protective, high dairy intake could therefore have a harmful effect.

For ovarian cancer, galactose, a component of the milk sugar lactose, has been under study as a possible culprit. A recent analysis of studies examining a relationship between dairy product consumption and ovarian cancer risk found that for every 10 grams of lactose consumed (the amount in one glass of milk), ovarian cancer risk increased by 13 percent.

More at the link

[GulfCoast66]

128. Few of the food we eat lack the potential to harm

Most plants, besides their beneficial components, have other chemicals that evolved to prevent them from being consumed and are therefore toxic. They are at very low levels, but toxic none the less. As a person trained in science I well know that you can find studies that suggest a link to most every food we consume and cancer.

When there is a consensus or developing consensus that milk is unhealthy, like the consensus we now have on climate change, I will take it seriously. Until then, I will keep the studies in mind but consider them like the 'studies' and 'scientific proof' that can be found online disputing climate change.

We are able to do lot of very beneficial things that other mammals are not able to accomplish. That is not a justified reason to change behavior.

I was given an evolutionary gift that I am thankful for. Milk products have been part of healthy diets around the world for thousands of years in populations that consume way more dairy than my once a day intake.

I find it amusing how many people here are pushing soy milk. It reminds me of how we all switched to margarine and other hydrogenated oils when science suggested that butter and lard increased the risk for cardiovascular disease, which they indeed do. But turns out the hydrogenated oils were even worse. My ancestors evolved to handle dairy products. They never even saw soy beans.

At the end of the day something is going to get us all. I am fully aware that my consuming meat, alcohol, bread and lots of other things may well cut into my time here on earth. Or not. I may get hit by a car tomorrow.

But staying alive is not, in my opinion, a good reason to keep living.

[smirkymonkey]

14. I would say no. I was always forced to drink milk at dinner and I hated it!

Sometimes, if my mother would leave to go into the kitchen, my dad would be a good sport and drink my milk for me while she was gone. Otherwise, I would just hold my breath and chug it so I wouldn't have to taste it. I thought it was vile. Water is the best drink, I think. And it's free. As long as you don't have a poisoned water source. I still drink a ton of water every day, but I haven't had milk since I left home to go to college.

[LeftyMom]

15. You know that constant toddler snot? Kids who don't get dairy don't have it.

Omnivores: you smell weird and your kids are extra gross.

[Codeine]

28. When my step kids first moved in one of then

still drank a lot of milk. She also blew up the bathroom like a long-haul trucker; it was intolerable. When I switched her to almond milk with her cereal and water with meals the problem vanished in a matter of two or three days.

[bettyellen]

36. My Chinese coworker said I smelled like butter and they hate that... I thought it was

Interesting because she used to microwave fish for lunch every fucking day and the whole place smelled horrible because of that... but I smelled like butter? LOL.

[LeftyMom]

41. The Japanese word for western traders was "batakusai" meaning stinks of butter

It's one of those things Americans don't smell because it's constant, but other people notice.

I wonder how many American spies got caught that way? A great cover story wouldn't do much if you smell like a Dennys when you sweat.

[bettyellen]

44. Yeah she told me there was a word for it, but I forgot what it was. She was the rudest person, she

Also told me (after I'd told her that my mom was suffering with Alzheimer's) that Chinese people believed that dementia only happened to mean people that is was lie a punishment. While I appreciate candor it's a two way street with me so I told her I thought that was not only stupid and totally wrong but a cruel thing to say to me.
I kind of think she enjoyed being an asshole, but that was OTT shitty.

[Red Mountain]

56. So is butter a thing in Japanese cuisine?

Which is to say....for a likely lactose intolerant population how would they know? Can the body odor of a person eating a dairy rich diet realistically be attributed to it?

Interesting.

[bettyellen]

63. I think it is rare enough that they can smell it on us, certainly most of Asia except Hindus in

India, or Mongolian and yak butter (but I think that's more fuel than food). And yeah, there's actually a word for describing people who smell like butter. My kind coworker said I was particularly bad smelling!

[Red Mountain]

65. How much of this is diet...

and how much is the theory that different races have different body odors?

I've certainly run across the idea.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Body_odor

[bettyellen]

66. I think that's sort of inseparable- we are what we consume...

And she nailed me, I do love dairy!

[LeftyMom]

74. Nah, it's diet.

I don't eat dairy. I can smell small amounts of it contaminating food, because I'm not used to the smell. People who eat it on the regular reek of it, regardless of their ethnicity.

Likewise if you eat a crapload of cumin and turmeric you're going to smell like Indian food when you sweat whether your grandmother came from Calcutta or County Cork.

[spinbaby]

94. Butter is common in Hokkaido

Butter ramen is famous. Even in the rest of Japan, an American style breakfast will come with butter.

[Jim Beard]

72. The only way American spies were caught in Europe was eating steak......

A Click & Clack teaser........

[Jim Beard]

73. Answer......

The Germans could watch people eating steak. The Americans would cut their steak with one hand and the transfer the fork to the hand that had done the cutting to place the food in the mouth.

The Europeans would not switch hands. They would cut with one hand and immediately eat with the same hand holding the meat.

[Codeine]

61. I used to run a convenience store

and people would occasionally put fish in the microwave. Holy fuck. What a stench, and it just goes on forever.

[bettyellen]

64. The smell would easily last 6-7 hours!

[LeftInTX]

118. North Vietnamese could smell American soldiers by their body odor

East Asians have less sweat glands in their armpits than other ethnicity's.
My husband is Mexican-American (native American) and he doesn't get body odor.

I'm European/Middle Eastern and own stock in Hibiclens.

[Red Mountain]

53. Interesting

My kids have always had dairy (whenever possible from our cows) and I've never noticed it.

Maybe it's a city thing?

Not the smell, the snot.

We have plenty of smells.

[Rhiannon12866]

17. I was forced to drink it as a kid and I fought it every night

I had to finish it before I left the table, so I'd finally guzzle it and I'd feel sick. My doctor had a sign in his office that said "Cows' Milk Is for Calves."

[Codeine]

26. Same in my family.

I would gulp it down as fast as possible just to get it over with. Nasty shit.

[smirkymonkey]

75. So did I. I felt traumatized by it.

I still can't even stand to see anyone else drink it. It grosses me out that much.

[crazycatlady]

19. I have it in my coffee every day

I go through half gallon per week.

Other than coffee I only drink water.

[aikoaiko]

20. Need. I don't know. But my kid can't drink enough of it.

My 11-year old drinks nearly a half gallon a day.

[IMG][/IMG]

[Wounded Bear]

21. Lot of good responses here, on both sides...

We drank milk as kids, or at least we always had it. I remember at a young age, we used to buy whole milk right from the dairy, before it was homogenized. I'm not sure it was pasteurized either, though I imagine it was. Anyway, we drank it and used it on our cereal and mom used it to bake and what not.

Now, I used it on my morning cereal and that's about it. I can barely use up a half gallon before it turns. When I raised my daughter, she got about the same thing. I never forced her to drink milk by itself, though we always had it for cereal and the occasional chocolate milk offering. We usually had ice cream around, too.

I think a lot of the "drink milk every day" impetus sprang from advertising from the dairy industry. The whole "Got Milk?" campaign didn't just start in the 21st century. We had similar ads when I was growing up. Any benefit from the Vitamin D enrichment or other dietary pluses could probably be managed with better diet and/or a daily multi-vitamin pill. (Cue the haters on that one )

[Calculating]

22. Considering that most people have some degree of lactose intollerance

I think it would be just fine to remove milk from the menu. I finally had to stop drinking milk in my early 20's because it would just cause me to have problems.

[WinkyDink]

55. I think your "most people" needs proven support.

[LWolf]

23. No. They are better off without dairy.

Human babies are made for consuming human milk. When necessary, other milk can be substituted. Once they are weaned, though, they don't really need dairy. Generations of parents have been conditioned by the milk industry's advertisements. It's all about increasing consumption, and therefore profits.

There are plenty of foods that have calcium, not just milk products. Commercial dairy products come from cow's milk, which, when not organic, as most is not, contain hormones and anti-biotics that are harmful to children. It also contains casein, which reacts negatively with the human brain.

We, and our children, simply don't need dairy in our diet. And school meals not only offer milk, but chocolate milk and yogurt with sugar; sugar is, in many ways, worse than milk.

Which is why "flavored water" shouldn't be there, either. The whole point of the "flavoring" is to make sure that kids grow up thinking what they drink is supposed to be sweet, helping out the soft-drink industry. Good clean plain water...better than anything else.

School breakfast and lunch programs depend on food subsidies which are not about nutrition, but about the need to dispose of farm production deemed surplus under commodity price support programs. Again, it's all about the money.

[2naSalit]

29. +1

[Red Mountain]

58. Well.......

milk sold in the US legally does not contain antibiotics of hormones.

It's illegal and tested for.

Not sure where you live.

The casein thing (a-1, a-2) is still a little out there in the sense that there is not a solid scientific consensus that a-1 is harmful. That a-2 cow genetics are being used to market more expensive milk hasn't been very helpful to the debate.

But people believe what they want to regardless of what the science says.

[KPN]

110. Yup!

We should all be considering going vegan really (not there myself, but close and getting there). If humans are going to persist on this planet, it's the only way -- we are going to have to convert to a plant-based diet. It's the only way we can sustain the human population and the earth.

[crazycatlady]

124. That is their own decision to make

I'm 90% vegetarian (only eat meat someone else prepares). However, 90% of my protein comes from dairy and you'll be a dead man if you force me to give that up.

Frankly I find someone who makes my diet their business as invasive as a fundie who makes my religion (or lack their of) their business. Live and let live.

[KPN]

137. I agree. Not sure anyone here is making your diet their business though. Just

expressing their views about dietary health.

I personally love milk and have all my life. But after reading enough about it and then learning about our dairy industry practices, I just can't do it anymore -- except I'm still using half and half in my coffee, but at some point I'm sure I'll cut that out too. We really have been enculturated/conditioned to not consider the agricultural animals' lives. Somebody up-thread said "Cows are people too" -- though comical, that kind of says it best for me. They just are not treated well and live pretty horrible lives.

But that's me. Not trying to convince you -- just explaining me and my views. And to be honest, I don't really care what you or anyone else does in that regard (and I don't mean that callously, just that I'm not a vegan or animal rights activist). I'm doing it for me.

[dumbcat]

24. Message deleted by DU the Administrators

[Codeine]

25. The notion that cow milk is a human dietary necessity

is completely nonsensical. I don't understand why people believe that silliness.

My kids never drink milk; my daughter is so lactose intolerant that she basically weaponizes it, and my son is grossed out by the taste. They both enjoy almond milk on cereal.

[phylny]

59. I also have almond "milk" daily and wonder

if other cultures consume it, because it's not found in nature.

[lunasun]

67. Middle East

Pudding hot drinks lots of almond milk

[mainer]

30. Millions of kids in East Asia don't seem to need it

that's not to say milk isn't healthy. But no, kids don't really need milk.

[KPN]

112. No it's not. But milk isn't healthy.

Investigate it. You may agree after doing so.

BTW, I love milk and always have. My younger son convinced me to look into it a year or so ago ... and I've had nothing but soy, almond and hemp milk since. All very good.

[milestogo]

31. Only if they are the kid of a cow.

[B2G]

32. I drink milk just about every day

Nothing like an ice cold glass of milk with a sandwich. Yum...

[womanofthehills]

86. Agreed - or in a smoothie!!

[KeepItReal]

34. I've always liked Lewis Black's take (NSFW):

[still_one]

37. No, water, perhaps juice, or even soy or almond milk, but definitely not soft drinks

[WinkyDink]

39. Calcium.

[hunter]

49. Leafy greens, seafood, legumes, and fruit.

People who eat an ordinary diet that includes these basics (for example, many traditional Mediterranean and Asian cuisines) don't suffer calcium deficiencies even when the measured calcium levels of the total diet seem low.

Homeostatic Regulation of Calcium (Vitamin D plays a part in this) is not a trivial matter of eating more calcium to maintain levels.

Human breast milk has 79 mg of calcium per cup, cow's milk 300. Not surprisingly, human infants fed human breast milk exclusively do not suffer any calcium deficiencies. Humans are not cows.

Milk can be used as a calcium supplement, but this only matters when the rest of an individual's diet is highly constrained to cereal grains like white rice or wheat flour. In the traditional cuisines of indigenous Americans corn was often treated in various ways with lime, which made up for some of corn's nutritional deficiencies.

There are also foods and beverages that interfere with the absorption or retention of calcium.

I consider the dairy industry's nutritional advertising fraudulent.

[Codeine]

60. Easily found in a bunch of less-revolting foods. nt

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

40. I belong to one of the tribes

that can consume cow's milk (Irish) and I drank milk well into adulthood. I simply don't bother to drink it any more, but I use half and half in coffee and in any recipe that calls for milk in any way.

If you can't properly digest milk, or you simply don't like the taste, then don't drink it. Pure and simple. But there's no need to get all righteous and claim no human ever should be consuming it.

I don't have any food allergies, but I'm one of those to whom cilantro tastes like soap. I don't go around saying cilantro should never be used as an ingredient. I just try to make sure I don't consume anything with cilantro. Oh, and don't tell me that there's only a little cilantro in the dish, because then I'll offer to sprinkle only a few soap chips in your food.

[crazycatlady]

43. this

If you don't like milk, just don't drink it. Don't go telling someone else what to put in their body. Mind your own business.

(Vegans who get all self righteous on me about milk make me crave a steak.)

I'm the one (semi) carnivore on the internet that is repelled by bacon. But I don't go around telling people that no human should consume bacon.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

50. Yep.

There are various foods I don't at all like the taste of myself, but people insisting no one should eat some particular food are wrong.

Oh, and those who are vegetarian, vegan, or think only uncooked food should be eaten simply don't understand that we evolved as omnivores who cooked their food. Most of our food needs to be cooked to get the maximum nutrition or to be able to digest it properly.

[crazycatlady]

42. Have it be optional

Look I'm on team dairy. 90% of my protein intake probably comes from some form of milk or cheese. I do not eat meat at home and am not crazy about eggs. Nuts don't agree with me.

As for schools-- have the option between milk or water (no flavors). Let the kids choose.

[struggle4progress]

48. The Republican school lunch: coke, fries, catsup, and Ding-Dongs

It's got all the basic food groups: canned, fast, a vegetable, and vending machine

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

51. I love milk (low fat). I've been drinking it for almost 70 years now

with no ill effects (I'm in one of those lactose-tolerant ethnic groups: Scandinavian/British Isles). However, if you don't like milk or if it makes you fart, don't drink it.

[MicaelS]

57. I love all dairy products.

Milk with cold or hot cereals, as a refreshing drink, to cook with, even (and this dates me), glass of milk with cornbread in it. Can't live without milk.

[Red Mountain]

62. Kids don't have to have liquid milk.

And given our genetically diverse population I don't think schools should be pushing it.

That said.....naturally aged cheese have very little lactose left.

Eat you cheese, dammit!

[Cairycat]

71. School lunchlady here

The change in the rule is that flavored (chocolate, strawberry) milk is now required to be skim milk, changing to may be lowfat milk.

I personally don't think cow's milk is necessary for children or adults. The flavored milks contain a godawful amount of sugar. If people like milk, fine, but don't force it on anybody.

Funnily enough, though my DNA test shows 75% British and 14% Irish background, I became lactose intolerant, around age 40, after an illness. I don't drink fluid milk, but eat cheese, yogurt, kefir, buttermilk, and small amounts of ice cream without problem.

[Kali]

77. some may, some may not

it is a decent source of some nutrients, but they can also be found elsewhere. if possible make it a choice. some kids don't get enough to eat, others are overfed. milk doesn't hurt kids unless allergic, and may well help feed some that need it.

[Doreen]

81. My mother did not force me but my grandmother did.

Breakfast I would find a large glass of milk, a glass of water, and a glass of some type of juice ( usually prune ) and I had to drink everything. Lunch I would find a large glass of milk and a glass of water and same with dinner. I hate drinking glasses of milk but with cereal or using for cooking is fine. I do like drinking chocolate milk though. I have found in the last few months though that it makes me gassy ( I guess I am getting older. )

[Jamaal510]

93. When I had school lunches,

I always thought it tasted weird to have milk with anything outside of sweets. They used to offer milk with things like teriyaki rice, burritos, pizza, hot dogs, etc. Thankfully, my schools also served cartons of apple juice (albeit tiny ones) as an alternative. What has me scratching my head, though, is why certain fast food chains offer milk in their kids meals. What kid wants to drink milk with a hamburger and fries?

[bathroommonkey76]

100. My mom would send me to school with a bag of her breast milk.

All of the other types of milk didn't taste right to me- She did that for 8 years.

[LeftInTX]

116. Is this for real???

I BF'd my kids for a long time, so I gotta a taste of my own.
I thought it tasted nasty.

[KPN]

114. Interesting thread. Enjoyed it ... and the variety of views expressed.

Having said that, I think the future is vegan. I'm not there and a few years ago would have told anyone who said that I might be someday they're crazy -- no way!!!! But I'm pretty close and getting there -- still eat some cheese, half and half in my coffee, and meat occasionally when my wife and I eat out.

How'd this happen? I love milk, I love a good grilled steak, I love pepperoni and sausage on pizza! Well, I decided to take an open minded approach to a couple of people I respected who gently prodded me to consider the personal and environmental benefits of being vegan, and gave me some sources to look at. .... I've read a lot, watched a lot and now I'm a believer. The future is vegan ... and the food tastes great once you learn a bit about it.

[brooklynite]

125. Translation: "I don't like milk, so why should anyone else"?

[Binkie The Clown]

127. I LOVE milk, cheese, and ice cream. But upon learning the facts, I gave them up...

for the sake of my health, and for the same reason I gave up cigarettes years ago.