How's that "Trump Russia Collusion is bullshit" working for the Jackass Radicals these days?

[stevenleser]

https://jackpineradicals.com/boards/topic/the-all-purpose-big-lie-the-ruskies-did-it/

These are folks who hate Hillary so much, they don't want anything to detract from the idea that the loss is her fault and the fault of us who supported her.

The problem is, the facts are solidly against them.

[nolabear]

1. Wow I never look over there. They're batshit conspiracy theory crazy.

[stevenleser]

2. They have gone insane with anger over not getting their way

They built hillary and the DNC up into this bogeyman that rivals what the GOP have done to the Clinton's and Democrats.

They are crazy, no question about it. They've lost their damn minds.

[Bleacher Creature]

32. Crazy doesn't begin to cut it.

Now they believe that disgusting smear about the DNC staffer who was killed last year.

And they're also debating whether or not getting rid of Trump is a good or bad thing.

I feel dirty just knowing that they used to post here.

[stevenleser]

38. Yep, see my response below. nt

[obamanut2012]

76. "Used to"?

[Bleacher Creature]

81. I hear what you're saying.

I just wasn't sure whether I could get away with using the present tense.

[Hortensis]

84. "Used to" and once were able to participate in

rational conversation. Those who were here during the primary probably all remember DUers who increasingly aligned with stories touting an intensely corrupt Democratic Party and candidate -- until they fell right off the cliff. They'd rejected reliable information sources that would have helped them keep at least one foot solidly anchored in reality.

At least that pack has found a place to belong. From their alternate reality:

"And for the DNC's next trick: They’ve already begun their next media campaign. For the next presidential election they intend to introduce a faux-populist. Joe Kennedy. ... You know it’s all a part of a well orchestrated media campaign when the great orange satan likes him. But all you have to do is mosey on over to opensecrets to find out he’s bought and paid for by Bank of America and the Crescent Capital Group. In other words, he’s just another Bankster shill. He’d be just another Obama or Hillary bot.

Don’t let the propaganda machine fool you. He might parrot the right words, but like Obama, like Dean, like many before he hasn’t done nothing.

Satan, The Crone, Iwalani88 and 13 others like this"

(Btw, how many murders do these people who want to rescue the Democratic Party from evil have Hillary up to now? )

[JHB]

3. Went over there, saw pinned heading "Colossal fuck up"...

...didn't dare get my hopes up, and wasn't disappointed.

Just acknowledging some software incompetence, not loads of wetware incompetence.

[Stallion]

4. They Are Discussing Merits of Zero Hedge Article on Seth Rich Favorably Today

its wacko over there

[JHB]

5. I'll take your word for it...

I'm willing to wave in their direction while driving past on the highway, but I'm not stopping to gas up there.

[bettyellen]

6. They're embarrassed that they got played by Asssange, Greewald and Guccifer....

They'll never admit it. I think liberals need a "truth and reconciliation" on this issue so people can fess up about their part in it. I told an old friend that and he's not ready yet, LOL.

[Hortensis]

85. Maybe somewhat, but becoming more and more extremist

through association with increasingly extremist ideas and circles is not just a whim that one may get tired of. It is an often implacable syndrome that does change the thinking of millions.

When times get better many will calm down, but that is not the same as willingness to reconnect with fact- and knowledge-based discussion.

[Jno_Gilmor_]

7. What a nutter...Dude sounds like "progressive" version of Alex Jones

[Wellstone ruled]

8. Hey,these Dudes are just Brush Bunny

Militia wannabe's.

[ismnotwasm]

9. They are some sick fucks.

A lot of DUs more obvious racists and blatant sexists migrated over there. That it was so painfully obvious never seems to occur to them.

[Jim Lane]

10. Posts on DU about JPR are like posts on JPR about DU

In both instances, the post and the responses convey more information about the board on which they're posted than they do about the board about which they're posted.

[philly_bob]

11. Message deleted by DU the Administrators

[stevenleser]

12. Message deleted by DU the Administrators

[Jim Lane]

13. It's my observation, as a longtime member of both sites.

Is it logical that there should be so much childishness and vitriol between two groups of people who agree on much more than they disagree? No, it's not logical, but there it is.

[phleshdef]

16. JPR has not been around a long time.

So essentially you are bull shitting.

[Jim Lane]

17. Reading comprehension fail

As should be obvious to anyone past the sixth grade, a vague term like "longtime" is relative. To a baker, the cookies are in danger of being burned, because they've been in the oven a long time, after half an hour. To a geologist, the United States Constitution has NOT been around a long time.

[phleshdef]

19. Don't blame your poor communication skills on me.

[LanternWaste]

21. And responses to posts on DU about

And responses to posts on DU about JPR illustrate as much investment in that poster as the board itself as well...



If we are truly disinterested in one or the other, we neither post, nor respond to a post; else we criticize others for doing measurably the very same thing.

[guillaumeb]

27. Painful to hear for some, but true. eom

[JTFrog]

41. Well it certainly says something about those who constantly defend them and take issue with the fact

that we are looking at examples of how well Russia's propaganda machine is still working. Complaining while wagging their own fingers.

So sorry that it gives you a sad. You could always just skip these threads, but I guess that just wouldn't be as rewarding.

[stevenleser]

47. A lot of the defenders, and there are three posting comments here don't realize they are obvious

no one here is fooled. These folks agree with the totally over the top batshit nonsense being posted over at JPR.

[JTFrog]

49. +1 nt

[geek tragedy]

14. Usually, when I pass a bowel movement I don't wonder

what it's thinking or writing 8 months later.

[stevenleser]

48. Except that movement continues to find its way in your morning cornflakes

to continue the metaphor. A lot of JPR types are still here.

[geek tragedy]

52. As long as they respect site rules/community principles

while here, meh.

Jury system is working pretty well.

[stevenleser]

55. That's just it, they don't. They're like 2-3 year olds testing boundaries

If you have kids you know what I mean. The point isnt to be a constructive member of the community, it's to disrupt and test boundaries.

[geek tragedy]

57. it's flown underneath my radar

The site is 1000% better than before, and no interesting place is going to be entirely free of that nonsense.

The few Buster posts I've seen have been zapped.

[Initech]

15. Hey republicans how's that whole Washington outsider thing going for you?

[Hassin Bin Sober]

18. What's ironic is those people have the same opinion of HRC as you did in 2008.

Maybe they too will come around. Give them time.

[stevenleser]

23. Message deleted by DU the Administrators

[stevenleser]

24. Message deleted by DU the Administrators

[stevenleser]

25. Let's start with the fact that whataboutism doesn't belong on DU

Last edited Sat May 20, 2017, 12:32 PM - Edit history (1)

That's a propaganda technique to avoid dealing with the issue(s) at hand. You seem to engage in it a lot which means you can't articulate an argument on the issue. I recommend doing more reading if you have so much trouble coming up with non-fallacious arguments.

Second, no the Jackass Radicals are nothing like me in 2008. For one thing, my opinion was subject to change based on evidence and facts. They are rabid, and crazed to the point that many boasted of voting Trump because they didn't get their way in the nomination process.

[guillaumeb]

28. Ancient history.

Never to be referred to in this forum.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

30. Lol.

Must be a sore spot too. I forgot all about this thread.

[stevenleser]

34. You guys can bring up whataboutism, straw men and other logical fallacies all you want

If that's how you want to represent yourselves.

[stevenleser]

79. In 2008 when Hillary wasn't my candidate, I didnt believe GOP conspiracies against her

I wasn't talking about filegate, travelgate, whitewater and all of that stuff as if they were legitimate issues. I wasnt suggesting she was killing people or having them killed.

Even your whataboutism is superficial.

[NCTraveler]

20. Most seem to be very educated people who cannot process the information they retain.

They retain it but aren't wired to process it. It's a bit frightening.

[MineralMan]

22. That site, frankly, is not worth visiting.

However, its existence has had a beneficial effect on the level of discourse on this site. For that, I am grateful.

[mreilly]

74. Exactly...

.. that site is a complete shithole. Boring posts, inane concepts and whining about DU. I waded through it for a while back in November when DU was down and never read a single thing worth my time. Pathetic.

[guillaumeb]

26. There is much smoke, but little actual fire apparent.

But if the facts do come out, and indictments are handed down, no matter the outcome, hard core Trump supporters will blame the liberal media for attacking Trump and ignore the substance.

But no matter how far it spreads, is the Russian connection a stronger factor than deliberate gerrymandering and voter suppression in the final outcome?

[stevenleser]

35. Of course you forgot the Comey letter without which Hillary wins easily

An investigation that had already been determined to have nothing "there" there is brought up again for no apparent good reason 10 days before Election Day.

[guillaumeb]

43. Clinton might also have easily won absent heavy voter suppression.

And if the Democratic Party had motivated the 41% who could not bother to vote, the outcome could have been far different.

[stevenleser]

46. Everyone on both fringes always thinks they have the key to motivating non voters

"If only someone was nominated who was truly conservative or truly progressive, we would have all those voters come out and vote for them!!!111!!11 elevens!" the story goes.

We have progressives running in races throughout the country. And except for very blue districts 99% of the time they get shellacked.

Same with very right wing candidates running outside of very red districts.

Why this fantasy persists can only be explained by one of many psychological defense mechanisms that people employ to prevent seeing the facts clearly.

[guillaumeb]

60. Are you counseling to write off the unmotivated?

Perhaps one of those "psychological defense mechanisms that people employ" is writing off those who are not attracted by 2 flavors of corporatism.

The fact that people on the left and right object to these trade deals, the fact that people on the left and right are increasingly in favor of a "Medicare for all" option suggests that there are places of agreement. Now all we need is for the politicians to recognize what is happening. But that recognition might necessitate forgoing lavish corporate contributions and lucrative speaking deals.

[stevenleser]

61. Are you writing a treatise on how to create strawmen?

Perhaps you should meditate on how wishful thinking is leading around your decision-making on this by the nose.

[guillaumeb]

62. So hoping for actual change is now wishful thinking?

What a recipe for pursuing the same failed strategies and hoping for something different.

[stevenleser]

63. And that is strawman #2. Do you actually read what is posted? nt

[guillaumeb]

64. I read what is posted, and occasionally comment on the dismissive attitude

of some at DU for things that do not perfectly align with one particular political worldview. And when people obsess about the Russian connection while ignoring the domestic tactics of the GOP in vote suppression I comment on that also.

Thank you for your concern and insight.

[stevenleser]

65. If you are reading it then you are intentionally mistating what is written. nt

[guillaumeb]

66. Like your comment #47?

Since you referred twice to my straw man arguments, this comment of yours in particular is quite revealing and ironic.

[stevenleser]

68. Now you are projecting. nt

[guillaumeb]

70. Simply reading what you posted.

[stevenleser]

71. Nope, you never do that, you pretty much always employ logical fallacies. nt

[6000eliot]

73. He's gone as far as I'm concerned.

[guillaumeb]

82. Your own words, from Post #47:

"A lot of the defenders, and there are three posting comments here don't realize they are obvious
no one here is fooled. These folks agree with the totally over the top batshit nonsense being posted over at JPR."

A total strawman argument with nothing to support it. So when speaking of logical fallacies...........

[R B Garr]

54. Then it has to be obvious that implying that Democrats are

corrupt is a really stupid idea. Saying that Democrats can't be trusted is also stupid and not how you motivate people, although that is stating the obvious.

[uponit7771]

42. The fire is obstruction of Justice there's no doubt about that

[Eliot Rosewater]

29. The irony of that person calling them-self "peace patriot", dear god

America is so upside down and fucked up, it is amazing to me we dont have more civil unrest.

I wonder if trump being allowed to steal the election happened because if he wasnt allowed to steal the election, the deplorables would have started a civil war?

[Zorro]

69. PP spent years polluting the LatAm forum with predictions of the impending US invasion of Venezuela

As if the Obama administration was ever even contemplating such an action...

Glad she's no longer infesting DU with her delusional opinions.

[stevenleser]

78. That explains a lot. That is some interesting context.

I just hope those people are never allowed back here.

[Bleacher Creature]

31. OMG, that place is disgusting!

There's actually a thread promoting that vile, RW conspiracy theory about the DNC staffer who was killed.

What is wrong with them?

[stevenleser]

37. There is a lot wrong with them and their apologists

They all were once here and while the rules of the site kept some of the craziness in check, it was always there below the surface.

You can see several folks here trying to defend them, some via the distraction of attacking me.

I am going to continue bring them up as well as the craziness they post for two reasons:

1 - Just like with Old Elm Tree which was a split-off site a few years back, that site will become defunct at some point and guess to where all of them will try to come back?

2 - Some of them are still here. I suspect that anyone who defends them probably participates over there.

We need sunshine in both cases

[FreepFryer]

33. I need a shower after a look at that troll nest.

Looks like:
25% Rothschild conspiracy theorists,
25% unconfessed misogynists, and
50% purely stupid

[stevenleser]

39. Yes and don't forget they all used to be here.

Their nastiness, bad arguments and plain old insanity used to infect this forum.

They are going to try to return one day too. It has happened before with another site of DUers who broke away from here.

[thucythucy]

36. I never go there

but I've seen other "leftie" sites that are pushing the idea that "Russia isn't our enemy" the implication being, I guess, that all the fuss about our executive branch being co-opted by Putin is misguided--the "new McCarthyism" and all that.

True ideologues never let facts or nuance get in the way of their march toward the workers' paradise.

[stevenleser]

40. They have a lot of sacred cows at stake that prevents them from dealing with facts in this situation

One of them is Edward Snowden. If Putin is behaving like an enemy, then Snowden sought refuge with an enemy. That would reflect badly on him so it simply cannot be so regardless of the facts.

What always get me is that these folks were supposedly on "our" side protesting an unprovoked war of aggression when Bush did it in Iraq but they are apologists for Putin's invasion of Ukraine.

[Johnny2X2X]

44. Manafort

It will come out that Manafort collided with Russia when he was running Trump's campaign. Zero doubt there was a lot more than that, but at a minimum Manafort worked with Russia closely.

What they will likely find is that Trump's campaign provided lists of voters to target for Facebook fake stories. The target marketing was very sophisticated and collusion would have been almost assured.

[hrmjustin]

45. So many of them lied about what they truly believe when they were here.

[Jamaal510]

50. They don't even

bother to hide their love for Toupe Fiasco over there!

[NanceGreggs]

51. They're clearly not interested in facts.

I'm still awaiting an explanation of how Hillary - who, according to JPR all last summer, was dying of a dozen fatal diseases, managed to pull through.

There were literally hundreds of posts about how she was wearing a full-body-brace to stay upright, and used a body double to appear at rallies because she was so debilitated. And all the while she was dying, she still had the strength to murder several political opponents.

I've yet to see anyone there comment on her truly miraculous recovery after being at death's door for her entire campaign.

[stevenleser]

56. And that is one of many completely insane lines of thinking promulgated there.

All in the interests of undermining Democrats.

As you know they used to do that here as much as they could get away with doing it.

And when their "theory" is proved to be untrue via facts coming out or the passage of time, like the Hillary on deaths door theory, they have already moved on and dont address how stupidly crazy their previous theory was.

[betsuni]

53. I tried to understand that Big Lie of the 21st Century post, but failed.

It's a hot day, maybe I can't think good, but really, it made no sense. It's amazing that all these twisted conspiracies about Deep State seem to completely leave out the Republican Party, as well as reality (of course).

[stevenleser]

58. I'm not surprised. Besides the spaghetti logic, they have a lingo based on conspiracy theories

that you have to have a lot of experience with to understand.

[LaydeeBug]

59. They can see how it feels to want with both hands, bc they are enablers. nt

[Shandris]

67. Simple solution.

If there is such a mountain of proof -- actual proof, not 'former official anonymous source who understands the way this person thinks' -- then simply toss it on a site and spread the site name on Twitter. We're talking about a four hour job most likely and a clearinghouse for us to work from. Doubt is best beaten by being chipped away with truth.

It shouldn't take long to collate all the facts. Facts aren't hard to sift through, after all. Name fact, name source and link evidence. Rinse and repeat. I know it'd be invaluable for me, as not having a tv really keeps me from having much to work with on this line of conversation (too many fake things coming out to try to keep track of).

EDIT: It occurs to me that maybe someone already has. If so, PLEASE link it for me!

[Ezior]

75. That's not how government agencies usually handle evidence. We've got to wait until ...

they finish their investigation.

Until then, leaks, anonymous sources and hints by politicians/officials is all we get.

[xor]

72. Aren't some of those people over there very pro-Russia in general?

Basically the russophiles who seem to think Russia is the next best thing since sliced bread? I recognize a few names who always struck me a such.

[PJMcK]

77. Thanks for the report

During the election season, I would occasionally wander over there for some contrasting diversions. But too many of their posters are living in a alternate plane of reality.

I remember the vitriolic discussions that took place on DU when some of JPR's original members were posters here. I'm glad that they have their own tar pit to play in.

[WellDarn]

80. While I admit that it would be easier to stomach JPR

If they censored posts from the fraction of its members who are dedicated Russophiles (you know, the kind of yahoos who troll Amnesty International's Facebook page every time they expose Assad's genocide in Syria or Putin's proxy invasion of Ukraine), I am trying something else . . .

I ignore those posts and read the ones which address issues in which we at DU and at least some at JPR share a common interest.

[Blue_Tires]

83. Sadly, they're all busy trying to pin Seth Rich to Hillary and the DNC

[stevenleser]

86. Kick nt