What in fuck's name happened to Dennis Kucinich?

[Blue_Tires]

Link to tweet

NOTE: For those who still don't get it, this is an example of "alt-left"

[DemocratSinceBirth]

1. I always thought he was a clown.

[NurseJackie]

76. Ditto to that. He always struck me as being too FRINGE for anyone to take seriously.

Ugh. He says some things that are pretty far out there and cuckoo!

[GaYellowDawg]

2. He sold out.

He's Ed Schultz's and KellyAnne Conway's ethical cousin. A mouthpiece for the money.

[dalton99a]

3. He crawled up Trump's ass and got stuck

[TheBlackAdder]

118. Perhaps that explains the slight falling out between Trump and Rootin' Tootin' Putin.

[nycbos]

4. He was always a clown who gave liberals a bad name.

Glad to see people waking up to it.

[underpants]

5. He gets paid to read the script just like everyone else.

[LexVegas]

6. He is who I thought he was. nt

[oberliner]

7. Same as it ever was

This is nothing new from him.

[Ken Burch]

29. Not true. This is the opposite of where he was in 2004.

It's a sad change...it doesn't invalidate what he was saying fifteen years ago, though.

[oberliner]

31. No it's not

It's exactly the same place he was in 2004.

He has always railed against the deep state and mainstream Democrats.

[Ken Burch]

36. In 2004, he was right to say the party was too timid and centrist.

There was nothing negative in his candidacy that year, and there's no way you can blame his presence in the race for Kerry's defeat in the fall.

We needed what he was saying then. Even if he has gone off the rails, we need it now. We can't prosper as a party of centrist complacency.

[oberliner]

47. So what do you think has happened to him?

Between now and then - why has he changed in your opinion?

[Ken Burch]

50. Defeat, frustration, bitterness at some level, perhaps.

Former politicians get weird sometimes.

It feels like this whole thread is about saying he shouldn't ever have run for president.

It's not as though there was anything bad in his candidacies for that.

We would not have been better off if Kerry had had NO primary opposition.

[oberliner]

52. I didn't say anything about him running for president

The only point I made is that he has always expressed suspicions towards "the deep state" and such.

You think defeat/frustration/bitterness has caused him to become a Trump apologist?

[Ken Burch]

90. I'm truly not sure how he got here(my impression was that he backed HRC in the primaries in '16).

I mentioned the presidential campaigns because it felt to me like the point of this thread(not YOUR point, but the point of the thread)was to retroactively bash him for running in '04 and '08.

It's enough to say that he's gone to a bad place NOW.

As to the "deep state"...well, that's one of those terms that can be used by the Right OR the Left. The Sixties New Left was deeply critical and suspicious of the "national security state" and the dealings of the CIA and the FBI(with total justification, as was eventually proved).

[moriah]

127. TinyURLed link, but...

https://tinyurl.com/l8mt3dv

Dennis Kucinich: FBI Investigation of Hillary Clinton Was Fixed in Her Favor
written by adam dick
tuesday october 18, 2016
Speaking Monday on Fox News with host Neil Cavuto, former Democratic presidential candidate and United States House of Representatives Member from Ohio Dennis Kucinich opined that, from early on, the US government’s investigation of Hillary Clinton for mishandling confidential information while she was Secretary of State was fixed in her favor.

Instead of the investigative process being focused on achieving justice, Kucinich says it was “a very political process” that had “everything to do with the 2016 presidential election” in which Clinton is the Democratic nominee. Kucinich elaborates that “the executive branch of government made an early determination that no matter what came up that there was no way that Hillary Clinton was going to have to be accountable under law for anything dealing with the mishandling of classified information.”

Watch Kucinich’s complete interview here:

Video

Kucinich is a member of the Ron Paul Institute Advisory Board.

[Ken Burch]

133. To make it clear, I don't condone anything he's doing now.

My only point was that what he is saying these days doesn't invalidate his presidential campaigns.

This is a tragedy.

[Hortensis]

99. NO. Kucinich illustrates the narrow gap between far left and far right.

He also illustrates the movement some make in these anxious and propaganda-filled times from radical left, to far left, to far right. He may shift back and forth depending on the issue, but will be dependably hostile to moderate liberals (Democrats) and conservatives.

Read up on what political psychologists have to say about this dynamic. Kucinich is an example, not an anomaly.

[grantcart]

67. pay check from Fox

And he was always strange


Oct. 2007: Says he saw a UFO: During the first debate of the 2008 presidential campaign cycle, Kucinich confirms that he once saw a UFO

December 2007“The story of Dennis and Elizabeth Kucinich involves: Indian nuns, a bust of Gandhi, a portrait of ‘conscious light,’ a mystical opal ring, congressional legislation, an Indian guru and the meeting of souls. Also: Dennis’s good friend for decades, Shirley MacLaine, the actress and New Age author, who played host to the couple’s second date.”

January 2011: Sues House Cafeteria: Kucinich sued the contractor that operated the Longworth House Office Building cafeteria and a couple of its suppliers after chomping down on a stray olive pit and suffering “serious and permanent dental and oral injuries.

May 2011: Visits Washington state to mull Congressional run: Kucinich toured the Seattle area last May and openly admitted: “My district appears to be on the block, so I am looking at options, and I am not limiting those options to Ohio.”

a long history with Fox news working for Ailes who he called "his friend"

http://www.foxnews.com/person/k/dennis-kucinich.html

[karynnj]

61. He was actually inconsequential

The problem was that too many people were still bonded to Bush in fear of more terrorism. By November, most people "got" that Kerry was not likely to ever go to war as a first course. They also heard, from Kerry himself thousands of times, that Bush did not exhaust diplomacy.

I KNOW there were some on the left, and Trippi was more to blame than Kucinich, who were against Kerry because of Iraq. Most however, while disagreeing on his vote, looked at his entire life and agreed that he was someone who would work towards peace.
Kucinich endorsed Kerry 4 days before the primary.

Where many of his supporters argue that he persuaded people on the left to vote for Kerry rather than Nader, I never saw much proof of that. What I did see was many of his supporters eager to make the convention into an antiwar rally rather than a convention to help people learn more about the nominee - in a year where the Democratic nominee got far less unfiltered coverage than any nominee before or afterward. I can think of no other nominee for which NO network made the customary puff piece biography that was made for even Trump and W. This when Kerry had an incredible background that demonstrated his strength of purpose, character and his courage to do what was right. (On the latter - think Vietnam protests, the Contra investigation and the BCCI investigation rather than his physical bravery in Vietnam) Yet, some on the left wanted to make the convention not about him too.

[Ken Burch]

95. The convention should never just be about the candidate as a person.

It's also supposed to be about what WE stand for as a party.

And there weren't any voters we had a chance of winning over to our ticket who would ONLY come over if we made the antiwar movement unwelcome in the convention hall.

The country was flipping against the war, and at that point the center had turned against it to.

"We can do it better" could never be a winning slogan on that.

I supported Kerry in the fall.

My frustration there was this attitude that his advisors seemed to feel he could never directly campaign on progressive themes and that his appeal had to be reduced to nothing but "I fought in a war". Why can we NEVER campaign in the fall in the belief that we can actually win the argument with the voters? That we could actually make an open case for progressive policies and real change?

[karynnj]

112. I think you missed many things Kerry actually said

His platform was more progressive than any before his. In fact every 2008 candidate was very close to his platform - with Iraq changed to something close to Kerry/Feingold. He had a powerful environmental message.

On Iraq, you are actually quoting Bush's description of Kerry's plan. In fact, read Kerry's NYU speech. Nothing in it was something Bush spoke of or actually did. He called for a regional conference that would help the Iraqi factions create an inclusive government. Note this was later a provision of Kerry/Feingold that Senator Warner accepted into a Defense bill. He also called for the international community take the lead on much of that. This was totally different from Bush and very similar to Secretary Kerry.

I am old enough to remember 1968. Protests at a convention are not helpful.

[Ken Burch]

113. The problem in 1968 was the brutal suppression of protest, not the protests themselves.

If the police had just left the demonstrators alone, nothing would have happened.

The protests were also inevitable in '68 because of the massive small-d democratic betrayal of nominating a (publicly) pro-war candidate on a pro-war ticket when 70% of Democratic primary voters voted to end the war.

Humphrey WANTED to reach out to the doves, Johnson(who controlled most of the delegates pledged to Humphrey)wouldn't allow that.

It was not legitimate to expect the party to stomp and cheer for Humphrey and what then looked like a commitment to keep us in Vietnam forever.

John Kerry would have been a good president. Having him treat the peace movement like lepers was never going to gain him votes...by the fall of 2004, it was certain that everyone who still thought we should stay in Iraq was going to vote for Bush/Cheney no matter what.

[karynnj]

115. He did not treat the a the antiwar people as lepers

In fact, many voted for him in the primaries - over Dean and Kuchinich. In addition, though we were getting near the point where slightly less than half agreed the war was a mistake, if you looked at the next question, very few people agreed with Kuchinich that we should just end the war.

[Ken Burch]

120. There was no good reason to ban antiwar signs at the convention.

Or hive all the activists off in "free speech zones" ten miles away like Republicans do(basic rule of thumb-we should NEVER do things the way Republicans do-it never takes us anywhere positive). Neither of those steps were ever going to add to our vote total. People who hate protest and protesters don't vote anything but GOP. They never did.

The country was at a tipping point.

A BOLD fall campaign would have won it for us and the country was rapidly turning totally against the war.

A campaign based solely on "qualifications" and looking "safe" and "moderate" never could have.

There was no way to split the difference on Iraq, no halfway point BETWEEN war and peace.

[karynnj]

121. The country was turning against having entered the war, however when presented with what to do

going forward, there was little support for the Kuchinich position to pull out immediately - that is why Kuchinich rarely got more than 5% of the Democratic primary vote.

The fact was that Bush was polling at 60 plus percent in 2003 ... and even at the end vacillated around 50%. Even if he had been consistently below say 47%, the unfavorables would include people like Pat Buchanan, who was very against W, but against Kerry since 1971! Models that predict based on just the fundamentals of where the country is economically and on the other issues, predicted that Bush would easily defeat any Democrat. In fact, they had to cheat in Ohio to win re-election! Kerry exceeded the fundamentals by a lot and did so with a high road campaign that he could be proud of - even though he lost.

With a supportive VP, who would have actually worked hard to defend Kerry, who was very easily defended, rather than seeing 2004 as a prelude to 2008 and if the media would have given Kerry more unfiltered coverage so he could be get his message out - he might have defied the odds against him. I followed the campaign on CSPAN, which meant I actually saw more than a 5 minute sound bite.

The fact is that he was more liberal, more progressive, more visionary than Kuchinich ever was -- and as can now easily be seen a far better person. As Secretary, he was the essential person in making the Paris COP successful and avoided a very likely war with Iran. (Add that to his genuine contribution to ending the Vietnam War, he did far more than any of the people who wanted to take over his convention.)

[Ken Burch]

123. I agree with you on Bush's 2003 popularity and the role of the economy and of the running mate

(turned out we dodged a MAJOR bullet when we didn't nominate that running mate in '08...the story broke right before the convention. Christ knows how we'd have dug out of THAT one).

Looking back on that convention from almost a decade and a half later, do you still think that things like banning antiwar signs at the convention and penning off activists ten miles away in "free speech zones&quot which are the kinds of things only REPUBLICAN conventions should have, if anyone had them at all)

I grant that Kerry was a good conventional liberal, not sure how you figure he was more liberal or progressive or visionary than Dennis(who was backing single payer and a Department of Peace...don't remember Kerry having anything close to those). How progressive or visionary could he have been as president after insisting on keeping the platform as nonspecific and bland as possible? How can And how can anyone be progressive and visionary while basically support the status quo in U.S. foreign and defense policy?

Whose votes were we ever going to win in the fall by running on a "we'll slowly get out, unless we don't" position on Iraq? Is there ever any support for being halfway between war and not-war?

And why should we still have been defending the "humanitarian invasion" myth in 2004? We already knew there was no place we could send in troops into and achieve an humanitarian result. We could only achieve a mudane, conservative-notion-of-national-interest result.

None of the wars we've been in since 2003 have produced anything other greater reaction, greater repression, greater poverty, greater violence and death.

If nothing else, we now know that we our forces can never play a progressive, visionary or even mildly life-improving role in the Arab/Muslim world. The last fourteen years have proved that. Why even pretend any other wars can produce a better outcome?

Not saying this to attack you or John Kerry(who I did do what I could to support-I still lived in Southeast Alaska at that stage, and Alaska is pretty much going to go on being a dead zone for the Democratic ticket for the next few decades, no matter what) just noting the sad truths that have emerged.

We may disagree, but I wish you well.

[obamanut2012]

54. oberliber is right -- he was always a wingnut

[Ken Burch]

94. oberliner, not oberliber.

n/t.

[MineralMan]

8. Poor Dennis. Couldn't win any primaries.

Lost his House seat. What's a guy to do? Bills have to be paid. Last I heard, the UFO sighting sites aren't paying much these days. The hard right is, though. A guy's gotta eat and pay the rent.

[Ken Burch]

30. He wasn't wrong to run in 2004.

It's a slide since then...it's a sad, horrifying change.

It doesn't mean he was wrong to even ever run.

[MineralMan]

56. Anyone can run who meets the constitutional qualifications.

Lots of people run for President during the primaries. Most don't win any primaries, though. Kucinich was one such candidate.

[Renew Deal]

9. He's always been a bit loony

He wants attention and found the best way to get it is betraying his beliefs

[MineralMan]

10. There is still a Dennis Kucinich Group here on DU:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=forum&id=1106

Betcha didn't know that. It's not so active these days, though...for some reason.

[Blue_Tires]

26. Hell, even I used to like him back in '04

[Ken Burch]

37. Of course it's not active. The man isn't part of active politics anymore.

The HRC group won't be active in 2025, for that matter.

[MineralMan]

55. And yet, it is still here, isn't it?

It's sort of fun to look through the threads in those old groups, really. I'm glad they keep them open.

[Ken Burch]

96. It's only here because nobody thought to close it.

If DU had existed in 1968, there would probably still be a Eugene McCarthy Group.

[lunamagica]

59. Why did you even bring Hillary into this? It's amazing how she is pulled into threads

and topics where she's not involved at all. Oh, I love it.

[Gore1FL]

80. She wasn't "pulled in" as such. The reference was to the DU discussion group, not the person.

She was in no way celebrated or maligned by the post's prediction.

The DU HRC Group is one example out of a handful of a finite available available here. The Barack Obama Group could easily be substituted in for the same comparison if you would prefer. Both represent now active groups that will, with time, become less so.

There are 15 groups available. Many of them aren't active enough now to make such a comparison--The Kucinich group being one example. The Al Gore group is another such example of inactive.

[Ken Burch]

98. I brought her group into it, not her.

It was simply an example.

OK?

[TexasTowelie]

86. I did

because I was the last person to start an OP there!

[MineralMan]

87. I saw that post. Back in 2016, I believe.

Oh, well. There are many groups like that on DU.

[Demsrule86]

11. He is very pro-privacy and hates the patriot act and believes in deep state.

He defended Trump's wiretapping claims...saying it could be true ...lost his job in 12 so not an Obama fan. He has been working against charter schools which received more money this year than public schools. But really not the same guy...used have so much respect for him.

[Blue_Tires]

25. And he's evidently on the Kremlin payroll...

Wake me up when he starts talking about privacy rights in Russia

[Demsrule86]

125. I am sure of it...all the disgruntled pols end up on the Russian gravy train.

Most of them are righties but there are more than a few lefties who like Russia...go down to JPR and read some of their pro-Putin posts.

[DonViejo]

12. He's returned to his roots.

When he started his political career, running for City council in Cleveland's ward 7, he did so as a conservative in opposition to Mayor Carl B. Stokes; the first Black elected to the mayorlty of a major US city.

[nycbos]

16. Damn you and your pesky facts.

[DonViejo]

20. That's the primary reason I've never been a supporter; I well remember

his campaign and his tenure on the City Council. I've never trusted him since then

[nycbos]

23. I remember when if you said anything bad about him...

... you were tarred and feathered and called a neo-con.

I wasn't alive then but this information is pretty easy to find out.

He also bankrupted the city if I remember correctly.

People are now seeing his true colors,.

[DonViejo]

24. I've only commented on him once, here on DU, saying what I've written in our

ongoing conversation. The City was on the verge of being broke when he was elected. Ironically, Dennis wasn't all that different from Trumpty Dumpty.

from Wikipedia:

Dennis Kucinich served as mayor of Cleveland, Ohio from 1977 to 1979. The Kucinich administration is often regarded as one of the most tumultuous in Cleveland's history.[1][2] Kucinich relied heavily on confrontation politics as a solution to problems, a style that made him seem bombastic to the general public.[1] His cabinet was often criticized for including members who were too young or inexperienced to handle their respective positions.[1][2] For example, Kucinich appointed 24-year-old attorney Joseph Tegreene as his finance director, a move that alarmed business leaders due to Tegreene's minimal financial experience (eight months as a stockbroker).[2] Kucinich was ranked the 7th worst mayor in US history in a 1993 survey by Melvin G. Holli.[3]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mayoralty_of_Dennis_Kucinich

[Ken Burch]

39. He stopped the munipal electric utility from being privatized

It could only have been a tragedy for Cleveland if that had happened. It would have made it impossible for anything progressive to be done by any future municipal government there, because progressive policies require revenue.

He also saved the people of Cleveland tens of millions of dollars by preventing the massive rate increases privatization always causes.

And when you are a progressive officeholder, confrontation politics are often the only thing that works.

We never confronted the Right between 2009 and 2017...and THAT's why the Right kept control of the narrative.

[DonViejo]

43. That doesn't excuse his racism or the Trump-like confrontational politics he brought to

Cleveland.

[Ken Burch]

48. He had moved past all that by the time he entered Congress

If the utility had been privatized, Cleveland would have had nothing but right-wing municipal governance from there on in.

You can't do anything progressive in a city with no revenue.

[DonViejo]

57. If he "moved past all that," why's he on Fox or, better still, defending Trump?

Right wing rule of Cleveland ended with the election of Carl Stokes and his defeat of Ralph Locher. Moreover, if Kucinich was so great for the City, why did the citizenry vote him out of office after two years? Kucinich went on to run for Congress and represent the largest and most racist community/suburb, Parma. Sorry, your tea and sympathy for Kucinich don't impress me.

[Bradical79]

68. Guess he stopped trying to dupe Democrats...

..after experiencing Republican gerrymandering.

[Ken Burch]

105. He wasn't duping anybody in 2004 or 2008

He was simply running on the issues we as a party should be embracing.

There was nothing negative or harmful in the presidential candidacies.

[Ken Burch]

101. I don't know why he's on Fox, and I don't defend that.

All I'm saying is that he saved the electri.c utility(any other mayor would have caved and sold it at a bargain-basement price.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

27. I never liked him...I never trusted him...

[nikibatts]

21. You mean his racist roots.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

35. He cut his teeth playing racial politics. I always thought he was a phony.

[Hekate]

65. Well, damnation

[blogslut]

13. He took the check

...and now he's doing wingnut porn.

[geek tragedy]

14. he's always been a crazy looking for a cause to latch onto

that this pathetic little toad was marginalized speaks to the strength of the party, or at least its rationality.

[Foamfollower]

15. Frankly, I see no difference from when he was stabbing Democrats in the back while running for pres.

[eissa]

17. It's called the Horseshoe Theory

"The horseshoe theory in political science asserts that the far left and the far right, rather than being at opposite and opposing ends of a linear political continuum, in fact closely resemble one another, much like the ends of a horseshoe."

See also Glenn Greenwald and Assange apologists.

[lunamagica]

64. I totally agree with this. I always said they were two sides of the same coin,

but the horseshoe theory is a better description.

[JCanete]

92. the problem with this shit is that it is non-specific. Who is far left? What criteria are you using

to make that determination? Is everyone on the far left the same on every issue? If not, are they all still being painted as the same by blanket characterizations like this?

Is the horseshoe theory simply a means of trying to discredit anything but middle of the road establishment progressivism/conservatism?

[irisblue]

18. Cleveland.com had an article in Feb 2017 about his running for Ohio gov in 2018.

C&P is hard to do on this phone, the article & comments will show up on Google. That was interesting to read.

[snooper2]

19. Like I have said for years he is part of the far left that joins the far-right

Fuck Him

[nolabels]

128. For Joiners without a real cause to rally for or win with what else can they do?

Stuck in some kind mode where agitation is all they know. Like, what else would one expect from them anyway? It gets old and predictable. We don't get to focus on issues, our puppeteers want us to focus personalities. Sold out morals for a six-pence.

We often get to hear a mea-culpa after the money string gets pulled away, I would expect no less here in a few years or less

[Oneironaut]

22. He was always crazy. I never understood why Liberals liked him.

[BigMin28]

28. Most people have a price...

someone met his.

[Ken Burch]

32. I'm saddened to see this. Something bad has happened to him.

It doesn't invalidate what he stood for as mayor of Cleveland or in his years in the House.

And it doesn't mean he shouldn't have run for the presidency.

There was nothing bad in his being in the race that year.

[pnwmom]

41. He said in Nov 2007 that Ron Paul was his choice of a running mate.

That wasn't a giant clue?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dennis_Kucinich_presidential_campaign,_2008

[FLPanhandle]

33. He didn't change, he has always been looney

Conspiracy loons can come from the far left as well as the far right

[C_U_L8R]

34. Sometimes it seems

folks go so far left that they come out the other side.
Happened to my brother-in-law, a groovy hippy type
who went further and further libertarian until next
thing you know he's a tinfoil-wearing InfoWars idiot
strutting around all 'don't tread on me' with a gun in his belt.
He better hope it doesn't go off.

[WellDarn]

38. A tweet from Alex Jones?

Linking to an infowars.com story?

And it's taken as true on DU?

WTF?

[pnwmom]

42. There's a video of Kucinich you can watch. He's a Fox commentator now

and gives speeches at CPAC.

[WellDarn]

45. It's not about Kucinich

who is whacked beyond all belief.

It is about whether were have posting rules.

[Bradical79]

71. I think Alex Jones is part of the point

that Jones and people like him are part of the Kucinich fan base these days.

[Blue_Tires]

51. If you honestly belive I've broken DU policy

Click "alert"... Be my guest

[WellDarn]

66. If you honestly believe you haven't

don't let me stop you.

I'm pretty sure the administrators count on self-discipline, as opposed to the jury system, to be the primary enforcement mechanism at DU.

Who am I to diagree?

[Blue_Tires]

73. "self-discipline?"

Yeah, I can tell you're new here.

Welcome to DU...

[WellDarn]

78. Lol

Okay, that does sound pretty naïve.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

40. I always thought he was goofy.

Even back in 2004, when he seemed to be a more conventional liberal (and I agreed with a fair number of his positions), I thought he was too much of a goofball to be a credible candidate, and I never quite understood why otherwise sensible people supported him.

[VOX]

44. He once saw a UFO and felt a "connection in his heart and heard directions in his mind."

Make of this incident what you will, but Kucinich has always been a little too far "out there."

https://www.google.com/amp/blog.seattlepi.com/thebigblog/2007/10/31/kucinich-reveals-ufo-sighting-in-our-state-during-debate/amp/
Kucinich reveals UFO sighting in our state during debate
angelo_bruscas 10 years ago
<snip>
Take Tuesday’s debate among Democratic presidential candidates in Philadelphia, in which veteran NBC political reporter Tim Russert asked dark-horse candidate Dennis Kucinich about his claim to have seen a UFO.

Turns out that Kucinich (who polls fairly well in the Seattle area) claims he has seen one flying space craft in Washington state – outside the Graham home of actress Shirley MacLaine – who has deep ties to Kucinich and his family and is a Northwest native.

According to MacLaine in her book, “Sage-Ing While Age-Ing,” the liberal-leaning politician had a “close sighting” with a UFO while visiting the Graham compound where the actress lives in virtual anonymity.

“Dennis found his encounter extremely moving. The smell of roses drew him out to my balcony where, when he looked up, he saw a gigantic triangular craft, silent, and observing him. It hovered, soundless, for 10 minutes or so, and sped away with a speed he couldn’t comprehend. He said he felt a connection in his heart and heard directions in his mind.”
<snip>

[Ken Burch]

49. So he saw a freaking UFO...so what?

Why was that such a big deal?

Millions of people have said they saw them.

[Bradical79]

72. It means he's a nut

Seeing a UFO and experiencing some sort of mystical connection? Come on.

[Duppers]

89. A whole stadium of folks saw a UFO

in Knoxville in the mid-70s. I was there and there were written reports. Guess we're all nuts too?

It's the mystical connection thing that's woo-woo bullshit and makes him a nutcase. Yes, I think he's nuts.

You think Pres. Carter is also a nut? And at least three astronauts? A Google search will turned up other famous folks who are credible - but not like Shirley MacClaine and Dennis who are nuts. There's a difference.

[Bradical79]

97. We're in agreement

"It's the mystical connection thing that's woo-woo bullshit and makes him a nutcase. Yes, I think he's nuts. "

I don't see the problem with what I wrote then.

[Duppers]

108. Thank you for the clarification.

Sorry I misunderstood you to say it was the sighting in addition to the mystical connection thing.

It's a common thing for folks to dismiss any sightings as being reported just by nutcases. I've often seen that happen here on DU.

[Bradical79]

114. No problem

If you see something, you see something, lol. That's what the term means. You spoted something flying and can't identify it. Implies nothing about someone's sanity

[Scurrilous]

62. Oh boy.

[crosinski]

88. Well, now I wonder what the directions were.

And if they're worth googling for. Nah, probably not.

Although, I did take a online political test about 10 years ago that said he was the candidate for me, so I feel as though we might have a connection of some sort and wonder if we still do. Nah, probably not.

[Ken Burch]

46. Dennis has now gone off the rails, but this doesn't invalidate the good in his past.

It doesn't mean his successful fight to save the electric utility in Cleveland from privatization was meaningless.

It doesn't mean his passionate and justified opposition to the Iraq War was bogus.

It doesn't mean he shouldn't have run for president.

Nothing bad came of Dennis being mayor or a congressman, and nothing bad came of his standing for the nomination in 2004 and 2008.

We HAD to have a peace candidate and we had to have a candidate who challenged corporate power. He campaigned then in a purely positive way and cannot be held responsible in any way for Kerry's defeat in the fall.

He's changed and that is a horrible thing...I totally disagree with his views on Trump as, I think I can say, do 98% of those who backed him when he ran...he absolutely should be called him out for that...but it's just a cheap shot to use the views he takes now to piss on the courage he showed in the past and to try to retroactively invalidate everything that was good in the man.

And if anyone is using this to piss on people who backed him then, there's no excuse for that.

This is a tragedy...not an occasion for vengeance.

[mvd]

63. You put it very well - thanks

I think this is a fair assessment. I still hope he continues on with things like advocating for single payer and promoting peace. I once voted for him in the primary and had him as my DU avatar. His Trump defense is just plain wrong, and I can't view him the same. But I would not take back my past support. I didn't know he would get a bit kooky. He was always a little aloof, but in likable ways before.

[Raster]

81. well said, thank you.

[WellDarn]

109. Yep

[obamanut2012]

53. Because he was only ever a DINO -- very RW always

I never got the love on here for him.

[Ken Burch]

85. He was the most progressive candidate in the race in 2004.

If the party had embraced his position on Iraq, we'd have won.

[obamanut2012]

100. Mr Anti Choice

[niyad]

58. and some of us remember that he was anti-choice until about the time he decided to run

for the presidency. have NEVER trusted him.

[obamanut2012]

102. this -- some in this thread forget how he treated women

[REP]

116. Not me

I never bought into his deeply held Catholicism that permitted his numerous divorces but allowed him to dictate women's lives. A lot of his St Denny schtick never played well with me. I'm reminded of a quote from his hometown paper about his looking out for the little guy - and that little guy is Dennis.

[niyad]

132. and some of us NEVER forget!!

[Leith]

60. Wow. Is He Still Around?

Long ago, I liked some of the stuff he said, but he himself turned me off completely. He came across as a used car salesman who kept injecting conspiracy theories into the conversation. Strange guy.

I have more, but it's improper to discuss a candidate's family or personal situation.

[Cicada]

69. Who says Kucinich is wrong?

Trump is obviously the creepiest guy imaginable. But someone is leaking damaging info. Who leaked the story that he gave Ruskies big secrets? Probably the CIA which was super pissed off about it. The CIA is on our side this time. But maybe we should worry about the CIA bringing down a President. Or the FBI bringing down a President. So I am happy to cut Kucinich some slack on this.

[ucrdem]

122. That about where I am on this too.

I can see what he's getting at, and Trump really kicked over the anthill by tipping off the Russians about that attack, so the mighty Wurlitzer is playing overtime. But Kooch might be overreacting, as Trump still holds all the cards, meaning all 3 branches of govt, and is basically untouchable, as he's all too aware of.

[NCTraveler]

70. I try to remember him like this.

[BumRushDaShow]

83. Or

when he spent almost 4 hours reading 35 Articles of Impeachment against Shrub, into the record (that I watched on CSPAN).

[NCTraveler]

130. +1

Thanks.

[fleabiscuit]

74. Infowhores? Alex Jones?

Did I link to an alternate universe?

[hrmjustin]

77. lol I remember when so many here wanted him to win in 2004.

I knew he was nuts back then.

[Ken Burch]

91. He was the most progressive candidate that year.

He was talking about issues nobody else in the race was talking about.

He was the true peace candidate that year.

Yes, he's gone to this place now, but had he been elected I doubt we'd ever have had a Trump administration.

[hrmjustin]

93. He was nuts then as he is nuts now.

[obamanut2012]

103. wrong, he was always an anti choice wingnut

[Ken Burch]

106. He was pro-choice as a presidential candidate

Is choice more important than every OTHER issue? Is it so important that it's worth accepting conservatism on most other things, as we did in the Nineties?

I'm as pro-choice as you are...but we also need to be working for overall social and economic change, not choice in isolation to most everything else.

[REP]

117. Without reproductive rights, economic and social change is not possible

Think about it. What kind of social advancement is possible when women are treated as broodmares? What kind of economic justice is possible when people cannot limit the size of their families?

Woman are human beings. Saying their rights are less important is .... well, fuck, I'm used to it but it still pisses me off.

[Ken Burch]

119. I support reproductive rights.

Last edited Fri May 19, 2017, 12:00 AM - Edit history (1)

But we can't ever go back to the Nineties, when that was seen as enough to distinguish Democrats from Republcans.
I was not saying anyone's rights are LESS important.

I wish Dennis had never been anti-choice, but he WAS running as a pro-choice candidate and I truly believe that the dynamics of the party would have made it impossible for him to be an anti-choice president.

[Raster]

79. Oh no, Denny, honey... back on the meds.

[Sunlei]

82. IMO Republicans are ready to get rid of Trump and move Pence in.

[Ken Burch]

107. Probably so.

If that happens, does there need to be a confirmation process for the next veep?

[rpannier]

131. Pence would pick someone

The senate would have to confirm
As I recall that was what happened with Ford when he replaced Nixon

[hunter]

84. I know it's intolerant, but I'm starting to see it as "Catholics Gone Bad." Pence is one too.

Maybe I'm allowed to say it because I'm some kind of bad Catholic and a heretic too, but I've never experienced the judgmental and authoritarian aspects of the faith chewing away at my soul until the disease breaks through my skin as an ugly rash, and spews out my mouth like vomit.

Hypocrisy is poison.

[still_one]

104. He was always a flake

[DFW]

110. Poor Dennis didn't fare too well on the "Sing along with Campaign 2008" online album

There was one song each about 12 different candidates, and his was to the tune of Popeye the Sailor Man

I'm Dennis the Congress-Man
I'm Dennis the Congress-Man
I eat lots of spinach and my name's Kucinich
I'm Dennis the Congress-Man

[intheflow]

111. Wow, that's creepy.

I used to like him but he's jumped the shark for sure now. Gone clean over to the Dark Side.

[Tom67]

124. Nutzo!nt

[Historic NY]

126. ....

[krawhitham]

129. absolutely nothing